Did you know there are different three levels of listening? Did you hear what I just said? Are you listening to me?
In this episode we dive into how you can improve listening (which is way different from just hearing) when it relates to self, others, and global. You will see how to improve the quality of your communications, which leads to better relationship.
The Fire and Earth Podcast gives you practical advice and keys to unlocking your potential in life and business, hosted by Dr. Kathy Gruver and Jason Mefford. Real, raw and unscripted.
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Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason Medford
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What, but I wasn’t I’m saying, Oh, yeah. And I’m Kathy Coover and today we’re talking about listening.
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Feet. We were you not listening to me right now.
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But no, no. I was totally right there with you.
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What did I say
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Somebody was it listen me
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About something else.
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How often do we do that that’s probably a pretty common thing.
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Yeah, so we’re going to talk about listening today and we’re going to talk about the three levels of listening and then there’s maybe some activities that we can do to identify how we could be better listeners. How are you on the listening end of things. Jason typically
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It depends on how present I am in in the conversation. Right. And I think that’s, you know, again, kind of a tie into a lot of the mindfulness stuff that we talked about, is it’s
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It’s very easy not to listen when we’re thinking about or doing something else. Yes. And so, you know, again, it’s the whole idea of, you know, you hear people talk about
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You know, we go we go out for dinner, and everybody’s sitting around the table and instead of talking, everybody’s on their phone, right.
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And so, you know, whenever somebody is on their phone. As an example, they can’t truly be listening. They may they might hear, but they can’t actually listen properly if they’re
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If their attention is somewhere else. Exactly.
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Exactly. And sometimes, though, excuse me, even if you don’t have the phone in front of you and you’re you’re actually listening, like you and I just having this conversation or people listening at home.
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There’s a couple different levels of listening and the one that you’re talking about is that level one listening. That’s where we have the attention on us.
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That’s where even though someone else is talking and you’re listening. You have your own thoughts going on of
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Oh, what am I going to say next or, oh, I wonder if there’s going to be traffic on my way to work or oh I just had lemon yogurt. I can still taste in my mouth. So I’m listening to you, but
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I’m not actually hearing you. I’m in my own head. I’m hearing my own thoughts that is level one listening, where the focus is put on self.
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And so often when we’re having a conversation, especially in business because we’re trying to formulate, what is our response going to be to that.
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What is our reaction going to be to that. What can I say to them next move this conversation forward that we’re actually in our own self and not actually listening to what that other person is saying. So that is that level one listening being there with them but focused on self.
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Yeah, and I think it’s, it’s interesting because as you as you brought that up, especially, you know, in a business perspective because I taught. Lots of people about interviewing
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You know, because that’s a big part of what I’ve done professionally is actually interviewing people for audits and other stuff like that and and I think that’s a, it’s a very
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It’s interesting because like you said, a lot of times we’re, we’re trying to process what the other person is saying, but we’re trying to formulate a response.
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While they’re still talking. And so because of that usually there is there’s a mix up in the communication channel because we’re not actually listening to what they’re saying. But I think, I think one of the big reasons for that is people are afraid of silence.
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And they’re afraid of kind of that that pause that often comes
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When we’re not trying to just automatically respond to what the other person is saying. And I actually think it’s better
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For us to be able to do that and actually stop and realize that it’s okay for there to be a little pause
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Between it’s okay to rephrase restate you know whatever word you want to use. So if I’m hearing you correctly, you’re blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Did I understand that correctly.
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To be able to really understand and make sure that we did listen before we ever end up trying to respond back. So that’s interesting because like you said, and
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And most of the time we’re all up in our own head. And so there’s a lot of this level one listening this going on where we think we’re listening, but maybe we’re not completely hearing because we’re listening to herself, more than we’re listening to the other person.
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Exactly. And it’s this was, again, this was in this three day coaching course that I took, and we’re talking about the different levels of listening and because I teach communication. This is not was definitely not a foreign concept to me.
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And I find that when I’m doing hypnosis and coaching sessions are so often, where, you know, the first part of the hypnosis session is typically 30 to 35 sometimes 40 minutes of
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Just an interviewing process we call that the pre talk and you all the stuff comes out. And what are we going to work on. And there’s been so many times where the personal, you know, Babylon for about five minutes about something. And I’ll just be quiet and I’ll just kind of wait
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And it’s so great because usually they just
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They sit back and they wait because I can see on processing and it’s like I’m kind of weeding through what they just told me and I’m waiting for my brain to go, oh,
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Oh, I know what you can do next, you know, and sometimes it takes a minute and literally I’ve sat there for probably five minutes and just gone. Hang on, I’m
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Let me. I’m just thinking about what I want to do next and in coaching or an interviewing or, you know, I don’t think we give us a give ourselves that space.
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That allowing that space and let silence. Like you just said to really formulate what we want to do next, or what our responses.
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And especially in like interpersonal relationships because I know there were times in my marriage, where, you know, my husband would say something and I would be quiet for a second and he’d go, oh, did you hear me. And I’m like, oh, yeah, no, I’m just
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I don’t know the answer. That just processing that and we get impatient with each other, especially when we’re so used to finish each other’s sentences and, you know, having that that type of like rapid fire communication.
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We’re really often stuck in that first person and not giving the other person a chance to actually process what we just said, or ourselves to process what was just said to us.
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And give that intelligent response we have that reaction which is oftentimes not warranted or not appropriate or not accurate, or whatever it is. So yeah, it was
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Yeah, I was gonna say, and I think it’s okay for us to give ourselves some grace as well because
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You know, we’ve talked before about the difference, you know, between the speed of like the subconscious mind versus our conscious mind.
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It takes a while for our conscious brain to catch up and that’s okay, right, because again, having that that soft pause or other things like that. Does, does allow our consciousness to catch up with what’s going on, it’s perfectly okay perfectly okay to do that. Yep.
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Yep. So we leave level one listening and we go to level two listening, which is where we are completely focused on the other person.
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It’s as simple as that, you know, and we can sometimes have to concentrate on staying there, and especially in like a coaching or interviewing or hypnosis session or whatever it is. It’s like we need to be fully focused on that other person and then take that time.
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To process and to do those other things. So, level two is just where we should be a lot of the time if our focus should be on that other person.
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Will you saying
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Great James results reading for us right
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Now, yeah. Okay.
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I’m not drinking this water. I’m not having wine at whatever time this is
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Clear. Clear to be kidding me. Right, but
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Why not having fun.
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Because I’m 48 in the morning. Yeah.
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But I think it’s, you know, in a lot of times. Like, I mean this level to listening is where
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Where we end up probably any of the time that that we’re communicating directly with somebody else that we should really
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You know, try to get out of our brain. But I think it’s interesting because, because what you said right is and we’ve talked about mind wander before
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Where about 50% of the time, your brain is wandering and is not on task. And so again, give yourself some grace. It’s okay. But every time you notice your brain wandering, you try to bring it back.
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Right. So it’s the same thing. Whether you’re meditating, whether you’re talking to somebody else, right, if I’m sitting here and all of a sudden, I think, oh, crap. I think I left the front door open or whatever, right, that pops into my head. It’s like, no.
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Doesn’t matter right now. Right now, I’m talking to Kathy and I need to focus on that when I’m done with this, then I can go worry about something else. Right.
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And you know I mean there’s there’s different kind of tips and tricks that you can use with that one that I like to do is when a when a thought like that comes into my head. I just write down a little quick note. And then, and then the blue cap fell off my pen that was
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Of gravity is long and and then come back to it later. Because again, you don’t need to. Right now, I shouldn’t be worried about my pen cap falling on the ground. I can pick it up afterwards. Right. Right. And I can just let it go.
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Right. So write down what you need to do that.
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Okay, write down
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Pick up a pen. Right.
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And then we went into the third level which is global, or universal listening, where you’re taking into account and this, this is an interesting perspective, you’re taking into account.
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everything that’s happening around you. So you’re taking into account your thoughts, your responses and reactions and what the person is saying and what is happening in the space.
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So as a speaker when I’m up on stage, I have to even though I’m speaking, I have to have a certain perception of the global environment.
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And when we had done an episode, I don’t know if it’s aired yet or not because I don’t know we’re in the now.
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Talking about those characters and things like that. And when we were going around the room and praising people for things. There was a very specific
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Feeling in the room. There was a very specific tone and attitude in the room.
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With these 22 people is, we’re talking about these good traits of everybody and that was that global listening that global perspective, you know, perspective of what is happening in the room.
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And we could shift that and you could see that shift as we’re talking about different things so that third level of listening is really sort of taking
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Taking into account everything that’s happening in that environment. How the room feels how the tone feels, all that sort of thing. So it was kind of interesting. We don’t often cognitively, think about what’s happening in this universal space around me. So it’s kind of an interesting perspective.
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Well, it’s interesting because maybe I’ll ask you some questions about that because, again, I mean, until we talked about this today. I’d never really heard people talking kind of about this level three global, you know,
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Universal kind of listening because usually, you know, again, it’s kind of what’s going on your mind. What you’re what you’re dealing with other people. So
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It sounds like the way you’re talking about it. And again, this is not something audible that we are hearing or listening to but it’s more kind of around the energy and the feeling and some of the other things that are actually going on around us, right. Yep.
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Exactly. It’s an expanded view. So it’s taking into account all of your senses and it’s kind of like softening and widening your view. So when you’re in second person and you were really focused on that other person.
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You sometimes to now the environment. You don’t hear the fire truck you don’t notice what the people around you were doing when you’re in that third lesson. And this is just this is their theory. This is the co active coaching method.
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You’re actually taking into your softening your focus and your widening it so you’re taking into account everything that’s happening around you and if you’re doing group coaching.
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Or a talk or some sort of group interview or team meeting you want into the perspective, everything. So you’re not just focused on what Mary is saying you hear Bob AND THE CORNER GOING
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You know, and you need to see what the what is shifting and the tone of the room.
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So it’s an interesting thing, especially if you’re working with groups or if you’re, you know, on a team or having some sort of like staff meeting. You want to be able to take the temperature of the room and I don’t mean that it’s 58 degrees, though. It’s a little chilly.
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But actually taking the temperature of the room.
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So it was it was an interesting perspective to bring in
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Well, and it’s, it’s, you know, now that you’re saying that I’m thinking about, you know, some different
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social settings that I’ve been in recently right and and again you can hear you know kind of the discussion between, let’s say you know again in this one. There’s probably about six of us in the room.
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And there’s two people that are kind of talking, but you can, again, you can feel from the tonality from the volume level kind of what these what these two people are kind of
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Talking about and listening to that. But again, you can also listen and kind of feel the energy in the room because I remember him in this one thing I’m thinking about you could almost feel like
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Everybody else’s energy level come down. Yep. Everybody else was kind of like
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Right. So again, it’s like okay I can, I can hear and listen to what these other two people are talking about, but it’s obviously it’s bringing down the energy level.
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In the whole room. And so again, from that global perspective is, okay, what are we going to do different or how do we react to this.
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And like you said we do this as speakers. A lot of the time, right, because again you can you say certain things. You can see the audience react in certain ways.
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And so, you know, you have to do something different. If the vibe in the room is not what you want it to be right. That’s when you, you got to start doing something different.
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To try to do it.
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Well, and it’s or you, you know, I think we’ve all had an experience where we’re heading over to someone’s house for dinner. And, you know, you walk in the room and you kind of go, ooh.
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Fighting. Oh, and you didn’t hear them fighting and they don’t looking at each other like they’re mad, but they’re just this thing hangs in the error.
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Of Oh, something just went down in here. I mean that’s that’s using all those senses, is that intuition to and we actually this past weekend talked a lot about intuition and using your intuition for things of
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Noticing that subtle body language noticing those eyes darting noticing that
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That exhale, that you know, that kind of stuff. And that has to do with the global listening and I know comedians do this to they take the tone of the room.
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They can tell if they’re losing everybody I do that as a speaker. It’s like, have we gotten a little too tired joining a problem. All right, let’s do this thing, you know.
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If you don’t know what’s going on in the room around you. You’re not going to be as productive. You’re not gonna be as effective.
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As a leader. Speaker, a Coach whatever you’re doing. So it was kind of an interesting perspective that I think we now that, like you said, now that we’re talking about. You go, oh, yeah, but we don’t cognitively, we don’t think about it as much.
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Yeah, well, and it’s. It kind of reminds me to. I mean, one of the things that I was always taught you know in being a speaker is what you do to one person you do to everyone.
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Right, so as well. So, so it’s like if you, you know, if you jump off the stage because I’d like to move around a lot.
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And if I go down and I give somebody a high five. I give one person, a high five or two or three people all 500,000 people in the room feel like
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Without knowing it like you’ve just given them a high five right and so
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You know, it’s that way, like you said, even in the in the group communications when somebody when two people in a group are talking
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And one person kind of disrespects or or says something that’s hurtful to the other person, even though they’re just saying it.
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You know what they think is just to the other person everybody else in the room feels that as well. Yeah. Right. Which I think, you know, for us.
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And this is not just if you’re a speaker, but anybody in general, it puts a lot of responsibility.
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On us as well for how we’re choosing to communicate how we’re choosing to listen and respect others who are talking as well because our actions do have a big impact on this, you know, level three listening that we’ve been talking about.
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I’m not a guide to that. Yeah.
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It does. And the more we can think about that. And it’s interesting because we got to watch
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We got to watch a lot of coaching examples. The two facilitators would coach each other and you could see when they were starting to get
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Because we did one called processing which was about emotion and you could see the room was like
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leaning in and hanging on every word and when they were doing the more funny coaching. We were sitting back and we’re just like light and you can guide an entire room by what you’re doing because if you lean and you start to get
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Really intense and you quiet, slow it down you can bring the entire audience in with you.
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And it’s one of the things that I love about speaking is like changing that tone and the intonation of the voice and the speed and the gestures and I mean like I’ve watched entire audience is just kind of go and lean in.
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Bring it in. I bring them in. I mean, that’s the, that’s the art of being a good performer being good speaker, I was just
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I met a magician at the magic castle, who also does stand up and so I watched a couple of his shows
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Last night on YouTube, just little five minute clips of various comedy clubs and he said something about halfway through the show that was
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fucking hilarious and it caught him off guard. He had not tried the joke before and he literally said to the audience. Oh, crap. Well that went better than I expected. All right.
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You guys back down. When you guys back up for my closing, I should have ended with that, you know, and it was an experiment, then you can see him like play. He suddenly realized. Whoa.
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That’s probably as high as I’m going to get you guys how well what do I do, how do I bring you to a close one. That was my high he he was. You can tell you it’s tempting to just be like, Okay, thank you, you know,
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But he had two more minutes to go. So it’s kind of interesting to watch him work the crowd that way. So that was that globalist at Universal listening. Yeah.
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Well, comedians. I think especially I mean it’s doing stand up is one of the toughest things that you can do.
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And. And again, depending on the venue what it is, yeah, if it’s if it’s your set show you know that you’ve already kind of got down. But if you’re if you’re introducing new material. If it’s a new venue, different people, you know,
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You always have to kind of be checking for the audience to see what what the audience is going with so you know that’s that brings up you know this level three. Listening is kind of a different I kind of knew about it, but I’ve never really thought about it.
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That’s why it’s not really listening.
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Yeah, because it’s not audible right because that’s why I’m thinking. Yes, receiving not hearing
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Yeah, but I like the way they broke that down because it’s true. It’s like, are we, ourselves, are we on other or are we global have we expanded our view to encompass everything around us. So
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I thought it was a nice system and you know we’re here to help people unlock the potential. And this was another one of those reminders that we need to less than that. And it can’t always be about us.
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Well, especially especially I think to, you know, when you’re when you’re in that level to mode where you’re with another person is is again to try to make sure that we’re
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We’re not focusing on ourselves or thinking about how we’re going to respond, but actually try to be fully present with the person and really try to understand
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What they’re saying, you know, take the pauses do what we need to do so that we’re really
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Not just hearing them, but actually listening and understanding and knowing, knowing how to react. And again, like you said some of those things from the global perspective.
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I mean those nonverbal cues is the same. It’s the same thing. Right. And I can’t, I think it was UCLA did a study and I think 7% of of it is a communication is actually what’s sad and 93% is all of the nonverbal
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Yeah. And are you picking up on that. And this is one of the reasons why I don’t like coaching over the phone. I’d rather, even if it’s just on zoom. It’s like, I’d rather see the person
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You can see their eyes move. And you can see their hands ring a little bit and you can, you know,
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This is one of the reasons I love that we do this podcast on video as well because I’m a visual learner.
00:20:32.070 –> 00:20:40.110
So I could listen to us, but to me it’s not as dynamic, it’s not as fun. I want to see our faces and I want to see the interaction that we have in this visual way.
00:20:40.950 –> 00:20:54.510
As opposed to just listening to it. So, whenever we all learn differently. And we all know, you can still get some audio auditory nuances. It’s me, because I’m a visual that’s more exciting for me. So anyway, I think this was a good time for this one.
00:20:55.500 –> 00:20:58.920
Yeah, listen, listen to each other. Yeah.
00:21:01.980 –> 00:21:02.340
00:21:02.670 –> 00:21:05.070
Yeah for everybody who’s watching the video. We’re just nodding your heads.
00:21:05.070 –> 00:21:08.160
Back and forth. Right now, if you listen audio. You don’t get to see this.
00:21:10.230 –> 00:21:12.420
Oh yeah, no, the tongues come out all right here we go.
00:21:14.850 –> 00:21:16.830
Jason were siblings. I swear to God.
00:21:18.240 –> 00:21:20.850
And the older sister, which I forgot until this morning.
00:21:20.970 –> 00:21:21.780
00:21:21.870 –> 00:21:22.260
00:21:22.470 –> 00:21:39.480
I’m an old I’m an old man old man at heart. I’ve always been, I’ve always been confused for being five to 10 years older than I actually am which is which is kind of, well, it’s, I don’t know if it’s kind of natural birth order because there’s 11 years between me and my next oldest sibling.
00:21:39.570 –> 00:21:40.440
00:21:40.680 –> 00:21:53.340
But it’s but it’s almost like a lot of my personality is as if I was still born like a couple years after her right so it’s kind of weird. Anyway, that’s way off topic.
00:21:55.080 –> 00:21:56.850
I’ll take that. Will that will do age next time.
00:21:56.880 –> 00:21:59.910
Yeah, well then, okay, there we go. It’s just another anyway.
00:22:00.180 –> 00:22:02.250
Oh, I know. I know all of us have a big birthday.
00:22:04.140 –> 00:22:16.680
See you all in Vegas. Alright, so there we go. So we have our level one listening, which is thinking about self Level two is putting the focus on the other person and three is that global perspective that global listening of softening and expanding your view so
00:22:17.430 –> 00:22:20.160
I think this was this was great. I don’t think. Do you have anything else.
00:22:20.670 –> 00:22:21.720
I think that’s it for this time.
00:22:22.050 –> 00:22:25.980
Beautiful. Alright, cool. I’m Kathy group or I can be reached at Kathy group com
00:22:26.490 –> 00:22:32.340
And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out and listen.
00:22:34.200 –> 00:22:38.820
To the next episode, the fire and earth podcast and we’ll see you later.