Sometimes learning what NOT to do, can really help people improve in certain facets of their lives. When it comes to public speaking, learning what doesn’t work can definitely be helpful.
From “verbal masturbation”, to not knowing your own subject matter, or just being a boring presenter, this episode will dive into the various public speaking pitfalls that YOU can avoid!
Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/
Transcript
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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast i’m your co host Jason medford.
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Kathy Gruver: And I am Kathy gruver and I don’t want to have this conversation.
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Kathy Gruver: But we’re going to.
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Jason Mefford: we’re going to have this conversation we’re.
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Kathy Gruver: going to have this conversation, this is a conversation that I I try not to be.
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Kathy Gruver: True, not to be critical okay that’s totally wrong that’s wrong i’m very critical.
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Kathy Gruver: i’m critical in a way that I want to help people grow and evolve and change i’m not just critical for the sake of being critical.
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Kathy Gruver: And you know I do a lot of speaking I recently found myself at a talk somewhere in the country and got it listen in on one of the other speakers.
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Kathy Gruver: In a breakout session which I don’t normally get to do, and this gentleman’s topic was very similar to mine, so I was like cool i’m going to learn some stuff.
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Kathy Gruver: Oh no, it was probably one of the worst talks i’ve ever seen.
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Kathy Gruver: For so many reasons and I thought there’s a lot of speakers out there are a lot of people who are aspiring to be speakers so in using the example of what not to do we can get better, so I thought we’d talk about that today.
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Jason Mefford: Well, I think it’s a great topic because you know it’s it’s funny there’s when you talk to people, a lot of people they really want to become a speaker or a writer.
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Jason Mefford: But at the same point professional speaking is like the scariest thing for most people right they want to do it, but they’re scared to do it and they don’t want to put themselves out there.
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Jason Mefford: And there’s a lot of people that kind of you know, tell you what you have to do and how you have to be all this Polish and other stuff and I don’t know if we’re going to get there.
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Jason Mefford: Any way to but people just want authenticity, you know, especially today but it’s one of those again where people are afraid.
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Jason Mefford: To public speak more than they’re afraid to die, which to me is always crazy but anyway so so let’s get in and I, and I know.
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Jason Mefford: You know, for me, I do the same thing as a speaker when we watch other speakers we’re not looking for the content we’re like Oh, I really liked how he did that Oh, that was a great call back Oh, did you see how they did that right.
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Jason Mefford: yeah so we’re kind of taken notes to try to help improve ourselves.
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Jason Mefford: as well, but I know I have sat through a lot of those things where it’s a good thing I didn’t have a gun with me.
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Jason Mefford: carefully yeah sometimes it’s like you know poke my eyes out, you know you know I can’t hear this anymore, you know stick a pencil in my hair.
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Jason Mefford: kind of thing because it’s just so boring and so bad and so again not to be critical of this person per se, but just to talk about some of the mistakes, a lot of people who speak.
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Jason Mefford: yeah right, so that you can improve yourself and make it much more enjoyable.
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Jason Mefford: learning experience for other people that you’re.
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Jason Mefford: talking to.
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Kathy Gruver: Right exactly exactly so right off the BAT so let me just give you the big picture overview.
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Kathy Gruver: He had an hour to speak it was like 15 minutes to an hour and the first 10 minutes was, let me tell you, who I am.
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Kathy Gruver: Everybody guess where i’m from.
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Kathy Gruver: here’s an overview of what we’re going to talk about, and when you have a certain number of things like here are my five pillars, if you have to go to your notes and say here so here are my five pillars.
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Kathy Gruver: see what was I gonna say um oh OK, so the five pillars are.
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Jason Mefford: You don’t know your shit.
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Kathy Gruver: And then don’t tell me you’ve been speaking about this, since the early 2000s.
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Kathy Gruver: because to me as an outsider not knowing a speaker at all, I would have thought this was his first talk.
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Kathy Gruver: So he wasted, at least the first 10 minutes saying telling stories about his dogs and blah blah blah blah that had no bearing on the content that he was going to give us so to me it was verbal masturbation.
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Kathy Gruver: And my question always is, why are you telling me the story, and when I do my talks I share a lot of personal anecdotes a lot of personal stories.
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Kathy Gruver: Not because it’s like hey i’m an only child, you have to look at me because you’re already looking at me i’m doing the talk.
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Kathy Gruver: But because there’s some lesson in there it’s an example of something stupid, I did or an exchange I had with a client or group of clients that I turned into one big client.
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Kathy Gruver: to lead for the story So the first thing that I did was waste 10 to 15 minutes of just blah blah blah blah blah bullshit then he was completely nonlinear he was all over the place.
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Kathy Gruver: Then, with about 10 minutes left he did his sales pitch of here’s how you can work with me i’m going to pass around this clipboard and then he took questions, and you know it’s bad when the first question is how much coffee, did you have today.
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Jason Mefford: Really, that was the first question.
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Kathy Gruver: That was a.
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Kathy Gruver: question that was the first question, not because he was because I speak fast, I like it and susie asking about what i’m saying.
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Kathy Gruver: He was so disjointed he jumped from point to point to point and then would go back, I mean it was so nonlinear I couldn’t understand a word this guy was saying, then, with two minutes left, he said Okay, let me get into the last two pillars.
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Kathy Gruver: And we all kind of went.
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Kathy Gruver: What week half the room got up and left.
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Kathy Gruver: So it was time management, it was no your content and then i’m a visual kinesthetic learner I love PowerPoint I will never stop using PowerPoint.
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Kathy Gruver: Because people like to see something on the screen I like to see what you’re talking about written down or in a graph and so at one point he grabs the big win lose or draw tablet.
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Kathy Gruver: And he starts to draw this thing which he didn’t know all the Info for which was a little disturbing and he goes okay i’m going to be nice and draw this out for all of you and i’m thinking okay you’ve just offended half the room because we’re visual learners.
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Kathy Gruver: And he made this big deal but i’m not a PowerPoint guy and i’m thinking you see lazy.
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Kathy Gruver: My interpretation, so I get through this whole talk and I was like starting to get actually angry and how bad this was because it was terrible content, he he gave maybe gave us one usable thing.
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Kathy Gruver: In an hour talk, it was a sales pitch he bragged about how long he’s been doing this and how much work he does, and I thought, maybe i’m just being critical.
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Kathy Gruver: as another speaker maybe i’m just simply being hypercritical and I bumped into someone who was in my talk.
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Kathy Gruver: He stopped me and said oh my God you’re talking so great Thank you so much one of the best speakers i’ve ever seen, I saw did you happen to see the other similar you know topic talk this afternoon he goes no but my boss did he said it was one of the worst things he’s ever seen.
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Kathy Gruver: And he’s not critical of anybody and I went Okay, thank God, not thank God that everybody thought this guy was bad.
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Kathy Gruver: But it kind of validated my ability to.
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Kathy Gruver: critique without just being hyper critical so that was the broad overview picture of my experience with the speaker and it was is an hour i’m not going to get back.
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Jason Mefford: as well, and so let’s so let’s take that apart again right because I didn’t I didn’t luckily I didn’t have to sit through this right, but.
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Jason Mefford: But but let’s just go back to the basics of why you speak right so again it’s if you’ve got an hour.
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Jason Mefford: You know you’re you’re there to help impart some knowledge and part you know motivation transformation and people get.
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Jason Mefford: get people to leave the room better than they came in right, I mean that’s really your job as a speaker.
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Jason Mefford: And so just from the numbers that you kind of rattled off he spent over half the time trying to either say how great he was or to sell you on something and again that says it’s a standard.
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Jason Mefford: A lot of people are taught this because, again, you know as a speaker you make usually more of your money on the back end than you do on the front end right.
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Jason Mefford: And so there’s usually some upsell or something some offer to work more with you and, again, some people do a horrible job at that.
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Jason Mefford: there’s sleazy ways of doing it there’s other more subtle subconscious ways to do it for the people that are much more skilled at it.
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Jason Mefford: But ultimately at the end of the day, right he wasted people’s time by not actually giving them something that was coherent.
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Jason Mefford: Because that’s The other thing you said right, it was not very linear and again hey all all speeches and what you’re doing doesn’t have to be all linear right that’s the beauty of things like callbacks.
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Kathy Gruver: yeah and a better.
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Jason Mefford: comedians us and the embedded loops that we use as speakers, because you want to keep bringing people along in the journey and that’s fine, but again.
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Jason Mefford: When you do that call back or you close that loop, then people are like Oh, I get it right, because it it brings it brings it back home, so I you know, I think.
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Jason Mefford: One of the things is if if you’re getting up on stage if you’re speaking to people and your intention is to share how great you are then you’re one of the worst speakers already because that’s not the purpose for why you’re supposed to be there.
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Kathy Gruver: Well, and yeah and to that point it wasn’t even so much how great I am it was, let me tell you my life story.
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Kathy Gruver: And, which is fine if that has something to do with what you’re saying that to spend two minutes because to me two minutes is precious I over deliver so much content.
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Kathy Gruver: People can’t even keep up with the content that I deliver i’ve actually had people say oh my God you’re giving us way too much, but that’s that’s a good problem to waste two minutes on who can guess where i’m from.
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Kathy Gruver: And we had a whole audience discussion about that and i’m thinking, why are you asking us this.
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Kathy Gruver: I will, maybe say hey I grew up in Pittsburgh i’m a huge football fan and then use that as an example of how visualization works of how the.
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Kathy Gruver: You know the field goal kicker visualizes the uprights data data I don’t like everyone guess where i’m from come on guess you know it’s to me that’s a time waster, and that means that you don’t have anything to say.
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Kathy Gruver: Because if you actually have content that you want to share you don’t have time to waste 30 seconds saying everybody guess where i’m from.
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Kathy Gruver: You know, so it was it was a time so know your time fill your time don’t wing it and expect that you are going to be able to fill that out because you’re going to find yourself at 35 minutes going.
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Kathy Gruver: Oh shit i’m out of my content rehearse it a couple of times so you know how long it takes I know.
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Kathy Gruver: How long my talks will take, and I can adjust in the moment because i’ve been doing it long enough for an hour for 45 minutes for an hour 15 I can expand stories I can bring stories down, I can add another technique, I can.
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Kathy Gruver: You have to know how to juggle that as a speaker and if you don’t have enough.
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Kathy Gruver: actual content to fill an hour you better find some more fucking content and not do quizzes on where you’ve been from.
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Kathy Gruver: or where do you travel to where you know it’s like it’s just a time waster and these people came to learn something not where you were from that’s not on the docket of what they wanted to learn so timing know your timing.
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Jason Mefford: Well you’re there to serve.
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Jason Mefford: Right so so again, I mean I know.
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Jason Mefford: You and I know lots of professional speakers, and there are a lot of them that are there for their ego they like to talk and they like having people have to listen to.
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Talk okay.
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Jason Mefford: You know, but again you’re there to serve and provide something of value, now the interesting thing too that you brought up to about the the the board right when he when he said, you know i’ll make this easy for for.
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Kathy Gruver: i’ll be nice i’ll be.
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Jason Mefford: i’ll be nice i’ll be a nice guy okay is.
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Jason Mefford: Is you know, one of the sayings is what you do to one you do to all.
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Jason Mefford: That was one of the things that I was taught early on.
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Jason Mefford: So what you, you know again imagine yourself up in front of you know 500 people, whatever it is right, what you do to one person in that audience, you are doing to everyone else in that.
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Kathy Gruver: odd yeah.
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Jason Mefford: And so that’s why you know running off the stage, giving high fives are shaking people’s hands you can’t shake all 500 people’s hands.
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Jason Mefford: But if you do it to a couple of people and everyone else in the audience because we’re a collective group in that container.
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Jason Mefford: yeah feel like you did it to them.
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Jason Mefford: And so, if you make fun of somebody.
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Jason Mefford: Then you’re making fun of everyone now if you’re a stand up comedian there’s a reason for doing that okay.
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Jason Mefford: So so that’s that’s not what i’m talking about there’s a reason in that situation, but for most people when they’re speaking.
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Jason Mefford: that’s not what you’re there for.
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Jason Mefford: yeah so the same thing you know, expressing appreciation or giving compliments or listening to other people as they’re as they’re explaining something if you’ve asked a question what you do to one you do to all and so sometimes i’ve done this and it’s.
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Jason Mefford: On some of the speeches, where i’ll bring somebody up like to help me do something right.
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Jason Mefford: yeah and then at the end i’m like you know, thank you for doing that and I open up my wallet and I give them 100 bucks and the person’s like are you serious i’m like yeah i’m serious you know, take the money, thank you right.
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Jason Mefford: wow and when you do that again, why do I do that well it’s obviously i’m grateful for it, but again I want to give something to the audience So when I give something.
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Jason Mefford: Right to even just the one person everyone else can feel that that right because that’s The important thing, it is you are there to serve as a speaker and and if you’re not serving and making people feel better than you’re not doing your job.
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yeah.
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Kathy Gruver: yeah so the lesson from that is for anyone that’s listening if you’re ever in an audience with Jason.
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Kathy Gruver: volunteer to follow you around the country and take every word.
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Kathy Gruver: And what’s interesting is and i’ve seen this.
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Kathy Gruver: There was a speaker that used to speak when I was doing the natural path conferences and he was one of everybody’s favorite speakers, he was very funny he was very charismatic and I would see him getting carried away with the humor.
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Kathy Gruver: And I don’t know how I can explain this haha it’s just something, you see, and you go oh wow that just went completely awry so like they’d say something funny.
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Kathy Gruver: And everybody would laugh, and then they say another thing that was funny and then everybody would love to do it another thing that was fun and the next thing you know they’re.
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Kathy Gruver: Just kind of going down this rabbit hole of what one liners that again to not be all that funny, and so what.
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Kathy Gruver: When I do my ego state talk and for those of you we’ve talked about ego states multiple times there’s different parts inside of ourselves.
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Kathy Gruver: And Mike mendell talked about this on his show as well, so when i’m speaking, you get my professional speaker.
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Kathy Gruver: You get my performer jester and you get my librarian that stands off to the side and kind of make sure i’m on time and make sure one’s paying attention and what is my next slide and where’d I put my clicker down and that kind of thing.
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Kathy Gruver: This guy kept shifting into into gesture and then kind of losing himself in that so he said something and then he went right Marianne i’m making that name up.
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Kathy Gruver: And she kind of went wait what yeah.
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Kathy Gruver: Right yeah yeah I don’t know why, but I was just talking to a friend named Mary and that’s why you know is that right Marianne Oh, did you say something oh.
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Kathy Gruver: it’s an inside joke between us Okay, you know, and he started to get all hyper and like kind of explain himself about how this was this personal joke with this person that he knows, because she hires him to do this.
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Kathy Gruver: And he just kind of got lost in that ego state for a second and Rocco Stan they’re going we don’t.
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Kathy Gruver: We don’t know what you’re talking about oh that’s okay that’s where we could have an inside joke, and you know he kind of went down that route that that ego state trail of suddenly we were all completely excluded from what he was doing.
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Kathy Gruver: And he got lost in this either uncomfortableness or jester personality, or whatever it was and had this moment with this person that he knew.
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Kathy Gruver: To the exclusion of all the rest of us now, you can do that if it’s a brief thing, but he just took it to the you know conclusion and then try to get us all back and we’re all sitting there going why don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Jason Mefford: What you do the one you do oh.
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Jason Mefford: There you go right.
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Jason Mefford: yeah so.
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Kathy Gruver: And he was using other people’s content, which is fine, but then he didn’t fully know the content.
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Kathy Gruver: So he’s like remember that book blah blah blah, you know how he talked about leaders leading from the front leading from the side leading from the back, and he just launches into that I don’t know what that means.
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Kathy Gruver: And he said, who knows what that means, and like maybe a third of the room raised their hands and he goes Okay, so you all know.
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Kathy Gruver: And then kept on talking and i’m sitting there going dude I have no bloody idea what you’re saying.
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Kathy Gruver: And then he kept repeating the same thing over and over and over again, which was not new content, it was just him recycling this other person’s content, which is fine, but then explain to us what that content is it was just it was just just jointed and oh yeah it was just so unpleasant.
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Jason Mefford: Well, I think you know, because with one thing on there, too, that that in I understand I mean I get this I.
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Jason Mefford: I prepare but I wing more, I guess, if you will, right because, because what what often happens, since people are so afraid of getting up in front of people.
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Jason Mefford: And they’re so afraid of making making a fool of themselves it’s actually funny we we were just watching a show it’s on Amazon called Atlantic crossing.
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Jason Mefford: And it’s about it’s about.
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Jason Mefford: The second world war, but the story effectively of the Norwegian royal family, and how the Crown princess came to America they had to flee when when the Nazis occupied.
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Jason Mefford: But, but there was a part where she was terrified of public speaking, she would you know they’d write her speeches all she had to do was read it, but she.
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Jason Mefford: she’d get up there, and she just couldn’t do it right, and they were they were good friends with the roosevelts.
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Jason Mefford: FDR and Eleanor and and I remember, there was there was one time, where she actually went to Eleanor and she said, you know.
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Jason Mefford: I I need to do this speech for the Red Cross and help raise money for the war effort will you help me learn how to speak.
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Jason Mefford: And so you know Eleanor went through and kind of mentor her in it and there was one scene in there, where you know here you have Eleanor Roosevelt, you know.
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Jason Mefford: prim and proper Eleanor and she gets up and she just starts walking around the room like doing all this weird stuff.
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Jason Mefford: And the Crown princess looks at her and she’s like what are you doing she’s like come on follow me do, what do what i’m doing she’s like, why are we doing this, so that you can get comfortable being embarrassed.
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Jason Mefford: Ah Okay, you know what when you give a speech you’re gonna forget a line you’re going to do something it’s gonna it’s not gonna go the way that you want it to right and.
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Jason Mefford: Brian Tracy now, this is a guy he’s spoken ahead like 5 million people I don’t know he told me one time he’s like you know there’s the speech you there’s always three speeches.
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Jason Mefford: What are you what are you talking about and he’s like there’s the speech you prepare there’s the speech you give.
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Jason Mefford: And then there’s the speech you wish you’d given yeah now, how do you know whether or not you did well well how close are those three together all right, but there’s always three different things because it’s always going to be different, but it needs to be you.
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Jason Mefford: As well right so.
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Jason Mefford: Hopefully you know kind of going back to the notes and understanding that you know I understand you’re nervous when you’re giving a speech, so people prepare.
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Jason Mefford: good thing to prepare some people, you know rely on reading their slides or.
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Jason Mefford: Reading transcript right.
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Jason Mefford: Please don’t really want to say.
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Jason Mefford: Because because they’re afraid.
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Jason Mefford: Right, and so the reality is you’re you’re probably going to make a mistake it’s Okay, but you know what making a mistake, shows the audience that you’re a real human being.
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Kathy Gruver: And they are pulling for you.
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Jason Mefford: and your authentic and you’re being yourself and they’re pulling for you, because they can then connect with you.
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Jason Mefford: Right.
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Jason Mefford: If you’re a prim and polished you know person they can’t relate to you and so begging you and saying what you need to say that only you can say.
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Jason Mefford: Is is going to connect with the audience so let’s let’s pull in burn a Brown.
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Jason Mefford: Okay, you remember when everybody knows her now, for you know being authentic and you know dare to lead dare to dare to daringly great right and the books and stuff like that she’s written, but you know how she started, she was she was supposed to do a Ted talk.
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Jason Mefford: yeah it was a Ted talk, it was a Ted talk to, which again this is like.
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Jason Mefford: You.
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Jason Mefford: Know yeah you you go in there it’s a very strict format you’ve got to like practice and tell them exactly what you’re doing beforehand.
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Jason Mefford: And just before she goes on she’s like I don’t I don’t really want to talk about this i’m gonna i’m just gonna talk from the heart and started talking about this off, you know being authentic.
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Kathy Gruver: and vulnerable.
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Jason Mefford: and vulnerable.
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Jason Mefford: And that’s what she went off script.
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Jason Mefford: Which i’m sure.
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Jason Mefford: The Ted organizers must have been shooting themselves right.
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Jason Mefford: 20 3050 million downloads of that talk yeah why because she showed up she was herself, she said what she needed to say and what only she can say.
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Jason Mefford: yeah and in the way that renee says it.
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Jason Mefford: Yet right she’s one of those who I love her because, again, you know we’re taught well you can’t swear on the stage, really.
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Kathy Gruver: I do.
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Jason Mefford: I do you know and it’s like look at you know other people like her she’s authentically herself.
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Jason Mefford: She shows up as who she is so.
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Jason Mefford: You know, instead of trying to be that stiff.
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Jason Mefford: You know person that has to get through just be yourself let yourself come through because that’s why you’re there.
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Jason Mefford: Right, you can you deliver stuff in a way that only you can do Kathy.
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Kathy Gruver: yeah.
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Jason Mefford: I delivered stuff in a way that only I can do.
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Jason Mefford: Some people don’t like it.
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Kathy Gruver: Tough yeah.
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Jason Mefford: Other people love it.
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Jason Mefford: So just be yourself.
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Kathy Gruver: yeah and to your point of screwing up if you don’t write down every word of your speech you can’t screw it up and i’ve seen people do that, where they clearly have written down every.
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Kathy Gruver: they’ve clearly written down every.
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Kathy Gruver: And they forget what they’re about to say it’s like you know where you were just telling your story, you know I don’t the only the only thing that I rely on my PowerPoint for is to keep things in order.
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Jason Mefford: At the same thing.
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Kathy Gruver: And, quite frankly, if the slides would pop up in a completely different order.
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Kathy Gruver: I would just go with a completely different order you know it’s like I don’t really I don’t sometimes I tell different stories.
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Kathy Gruver: And it was very exciting I just got to speak in North Carolina and.
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Kathy Gruver: Eric my boyfriend got to go with me and what was so exciting about that is he got to see me speak in person, for the first time.
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Kathy Gruver: And he’s used to hearing my talks from across the room because i’m on zoom, so much so he’s heard all of my talks ad nauseum but he finally got to see one.
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Kathy Gruver: And I said how was that for you, and he said one it was so cool to actually see the PowerPoint that goes along with it because normally he’s not watching my screen, obviously.
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Kathy Gruver: He goes it was so fun to actually hear the audiences react to your jokes he goes, because I hear you say things that I assume are funny.
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Kathy Gruver: But he doesn’t get any reaction, nor do I, because i’m sitting on frickin zoom he said, and it was fun to see you play with the audience and do the your improv.
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Kathy Gruver: He said it was so fun to see you, you know as we say, as a coach dancing in that moment, so don’t be too over in Nicole.
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Kathy Gruver: Garrett talked about this when we did our speaking one don’t be to over prepare don’t be underprepared be you but don’t just think you’re going to wing it and that’s what this guy seemed it seemed horribly unprepared.
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Kathy Gruver: He read from the description in the book as to what he was going to offer to give us, and he didn’t give us any of it, and I mean it was just it was just poorly crafted and poorly executed so don’t do that.
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Kathy Gruver: That was my thing yeah just don’t do that.
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Jason Mefford: Right so don’t be the worst speaker ever.
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Kathy Gruver: don’t be the worst speaker ever.
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Jason Mefford: So so again we’ve you know if you if you have to give a speech you know whether again, even if that’s a small thing in front of a group of people at work or whatever else you know go back, we.
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Jason Mefford: we’ve given you a lot of gold, right here okay honestly folks I mean what we’ve shared with you here, professional speakers pay thousands of dollars to coaches to teach them how to do this okay and we’re giving it to you for free on a podcast.
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Kathy Gruver: Contact Jason will give you 100 bucks.
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Kathy Gruver: Oh That was something else.
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Jason Mefford: Oh That was something else that’s right.
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Kathy Gruver: I mean you can contact us but weren’t.
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Jason Mefford: You yeah.
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Jason Mefford: yeah please you can contact us that’s right.
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Jason Mefford: it’s even just like this right this isn’t scripted.
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Jason Mefford: Know we’re just being us so yeah you either love us or you don’t and hey i’m okay with it.
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Jason Mefford: yeah right, I mean we’re just showing up being authentically as trying to help you right because the same thing, I mean, hopefully, you can understand this, if you’ve listened to.
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Jason Mefford: More than a couple of our episodes you know why we show up and do this, this is a Labor of love right, I mean we’re here to serve you that’s why we do this yeah.
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Jason Mefford: Absolutely.
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Kathy Gruver: I thought it was just because we like hanging out.
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Jason Mefford: And this is the only thing well that’s that’s a side benefit to.
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Kathy Gruver: decide cool.
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Kathy Gruver: Excellent so you know if you’re gonna do a talk craft your talk.
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Kathy Gruver: stick to the time be respectful of the audience and what you’re actually giving them, why are you ask yourself why am I telling this story Why am I saying this right now is it actually serving them or isn’t verbal masturbation because i’ve run out of content.
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Kathy Gruver: And I think that’s just you know it’s about organization at that point, bring out your inner capricorn.
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Kathy Gruver: Sit down with you and organize your talk and you know for us visual learners please put some frickin PowerPoint up there don’t draw some half ass picture and think that’s going to work for me because it’s not so that’s just from my personal thing.
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Jason Mefford: alright.
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Kathy Gruver: sounds good.
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Kathy Gruver: I want to go do I want to go to another talk I do I do ready.
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Kathy Gruver: i’m ready i’m ready always ready drop of a hat cool yeah contact us if you need anything both of us can give you an speaking tips till you know forever so yeah i’m kind of the river, I can reach academy.com.
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Jason Mefford: i’m Jason method, I can be reached at Jason method calm so go out have a great week and make sure to serve, and if you’re speaking speak from the heart.
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Jason Mefford: and go back listen to this again because, like I said it’s gold in what we just gave you so have a great week and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast see ya.
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yeah.
