In todays Fire and Earth episode we have Mike Mandel on the show to talk about graphology!

Between “literary Ds”, Capital Is, “lower loops” and much more, the way we write can tell a lot about us.

Not only can analyzing your writing reveal aspects of yourself, but you can also change your very own habits and characteristics by consciously deciding to change the way we write.

If you found this topic interesting, Fire & Earth podcast listeners can save $100 on Mike’s “Graphology: Online Edition” course. This is Mike Mandel’s weekend Graphology course turned into an incredibly high quality online course. Approximately 7.5 hours of HD video including examples and plenty of Q&A.

Use coupon code: fireandearth to save $100.

Listen in at:


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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason Medford

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Kathy Gruver: And I’m Kathy gruver and I’m so excited to have one of our favorite guests back a really good friend of mine and incredible hypnotherapist The Wizard of

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Kathy Gruver: Graph ology which is handwriting analysis, which is what we’re going to talk about today. It’s such a cool thing. I’m so excited. And I brought a sample for Mike to look at. So we’re, we’re so excited to welcome back and like Mandela to the show.

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Mike Mandel: I am thrilled to be here. This is the third time I’ve

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Mike Mandel: Been on your podcast and we had an absolute blast last time. In fact, I love the way your podcast is video because

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Mike Mandel: You know we do ours on the cheap hours just audio. Although Chris has got us moving to video in the new year. We just got a whole bunch of new backdrop and everything for as you can see here

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Jason Mefford: you’ve invested significantly in a new building. Yeah.

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Mike Mandel: Small cathedral built

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Mike Mandel: But yeah graph ology is is something that fascinates me and I’ll see this right up front that the handwriting never lies. It never frickin lies and

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Mike Mandel: It’s one of the hardest things to get through your head when you start to study this scientifically, but it will prove itself again and again and again and the times I’ve forgotten that it never lies are the times that I’ve made mistakes and suffered as a result.

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, we’ll get there. So we’re going to start

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Kathy Gruver: Small and it’s just to that point. I’ve had people say bullshit. No, doesn’t mean anything. And I said, But wait, didn’t we all learn the exact same letters, the exact same way.

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Kathy Gruver: And they go, Oh, yeah. And I said, so why don’t we all look like that in the book. When we learned to do because my handwriting is atrocious.

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Kathy Gruver: It is a horrible and I’ve

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Kathy Gruver: I’ve done some graph ology with it and I’ve had other people do it. It’s like, it’s totally, absolutely.

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Kathy Gruver: So,

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Kathy Gruver: I don’t tell us kind of like where this came from. I know you did some stuff with forensic graph ology and then I’ll show you can tell us some of the

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Kathy Gruver: Common things to look for and

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Kathy Gruver: Then I’ll show you the simple if you can tell me

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Mike Mandel: Well graph ology has an interesting history to it and I came to it in about 1992

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Mike Mandel: Interestingly, I knew nothing about it. I thought it was. Whoo, just nuts and stupid. I didn’t know it is a small subset in a soft science already which is psychology

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Mike Mandel: I didn’t know then that it’s based on large numbers like any science thousands upon thousands of samples in fact Heidelberg, Germany.

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Mike Mandel: Paris, France Sorbonne, you can get a degree in this in some places in Europe, and it’s mainstream in Europe for hiring and firing still to this day.

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Mike Mandel: So what I mean by. It’s done by large numbers is they would look at the writing. They the ubiquitous, they would look at the writing of, you know, 1000 high achievers. What, what are the commonalities and they’re writing

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Mike Mandel: 200 people committed suicide. You know 1500 people who come from broken homes and they start to gradually figure out

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Mike Mandel: These aspects of the personality and then determine we can make predictions based on this. Let’s see if they work.

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Mike Mandel: And so, again, it’s based on large numbers like any other science. It’s not just pulled out of thin air, although there are a number of graph ology books will say that

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Mike Mandel: right up front that are just crap. They’re, they’re not well done. People invent their own systems. There’s a science to it, though. And if you follow the science. It’s great. So I didn’t know any of this.

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Mike Mandel: 1992 1993 I had done, I had a gift certificate from a bookstore in Toronto. It was actually called the world’s biggest bookstore, because it was at that time was huge.

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Mike Mandel: Great star spend hours there.

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Mike Mandel: My stepmother giving me this thing and we just sitting there we went to the stores looking around and I see this book and it’s on handwriting analysis. My wife says when you get that I went

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Mike Mandel: Oh yeah, maybe set my shelf for like a year or two and then one day I took it off the shelf started remit.

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Mike Mandel: Wow, wow, wow, got fascinated by it. So she formed around and found I could do a one day intensive with this woman Elaine Cheryl Ealing Charles Canada’s best crap all just another

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Mike Mandel: Personal friend. Now I did her one day intensive and she thought I had a knack for it. So I wound up becoming certified through the international graph analysis society out of Chicago.

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Mike Mandel: And then went to the you know the convention there spend a week. They’re doing you know week long internship with all the stuff I’ve done did all the online exams and so on and graduated with something like 98% I found had a knack for it and started mentioning it in my brain software.

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Mike Mandel: Lectures and so on. And I found it.

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Mike Mandel: is mind blowing, it’d be good to give you an example how mind blowing this

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Mike Mandel: I did a gig three actually for Neil Strauss. The New York Times bestselling author wrote about pickup artists and everything really interesting guy. So we had one

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Mike Mandel: In loads in Hollywood, so did this keynote forum and some training and we got into the handwriting and they’re all having me look at their writing one guy comes up.

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Mike Mandel: And he’s a medical doctor and I could tell he’s very skeptical. And he said, so what is my writing show heads me is writing. And I said, oh, not much other than I’m just wondering what you do to control that almost uncontrollable sexual aggression that dominate your life.

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Mike Mandel: Is bright red anyone. Holy shit.

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Mike Mandel: But it gets even better listen to this hip no thoughts live

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Mike Mandel: That’s sitting gnosis convention in the world us Las Vegas, where we do the bowling and we have such a blast me Scott, Richard, do a great job.

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Mike Mandel: I did a day long graph ology training there and on the break, as usual, the stick and samples under my nose and one woman hand to the sample is exactly what happened.

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Mike Mandel: And the sample had the personal pronoun. I really screwed up. Let me get a Sharpie here. I’ll go through the background.

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Jason Mefford: Where’d he go, where’d you go

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Mike Mandel: Here we go. So the personal pronoun.

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Mike Mandel: Which copybook Palmer method. It’s gonna get it is I’ll look at my own screen. Yeah.

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Mike Mandel: I like that okay packers packers of Hell, why is it doing that, you know, it’s probably something to do with that downloadable background.

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Mike Mandel: So in in the personal pronoun i, this tells us much the. This is called the sale, the upright is the sale.

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Mike Mandel: That’s relationship with Father.

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Mike Mandel: You can see it as an erect penis symbolically. This is the womb of mother. All right. Now, interestingly, you can tell the relationship of the parents by how they do the personal pronoun and with this particular person.

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Mike Mandel: When

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Mike Mandel: My writing this was this was what her personal

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Jason Mefford: His father issues.

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Mike Mandel: So she pushes the right in front of me woman in her 50s and I just said to her, darling. I said, what on Earth happened to your dad. She said he was murdered.

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Mike Mandel: Was like, whoa, yeah. Yeah, it’s, it’s crazy. The stuff that is coming out. And again, you know, North American wide me living in Canada as a Brit living in Canada and you guys in the US, we learned the Palmer method and Palmer was enough water.

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Mike Mandel: frickin writing control freak. She was bound by incredible jealousy. She repressed her emotions. It’s not the kind of stuff you want to copy because when you copy the traits, they appear in your personality, over time, but so

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Kathy Gruver: So that’s, that’s a great question. So I’ve heard people say this, you can tell me if it’s true or not. I don’t know that our audience has heard this that you can actually start to adjust your personality by adjusting your handwriting.

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Mike Mandel: Yes, Grandpa therapies fairly well established now because it is not your hand that rights. It’s an extremely complex neuromuscular function that begin somewhere. And I think the neocortex or something.

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Mike Mandel: The bottom line is a signal comes from the brain travels down the arm to the hand fine motor skills we write

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Mike Mandel: Based on the outworking of our personality, however, and it’s a big. However, if we change the handwriting. We are now sending a signal back in this psychodynamic loop back into the brain. The brain changes perfect example.

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Mike Mandel: Right after I’d been a graph all just for a long time and I determined to make some changes my own handwriting it which were very useful.

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Mike Mandel: Elaine told me to complete the lower loops. So the lower loops are in geez, and wise and things like that. I’ll see if I can get one on your screen for you hear a lower loop.

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Mike Mandel: Okay.

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Mike Mandel: I’ll get it there. See the top one. I’ve got the that’s where the lower loop should be like large well formed. Yep. It also shows you the size of your social circle, how many people you need around you.

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Mike Mandel: And people with huge lower loops need huge social circles, people with no lower loop can be very, very solitary

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Mike Mandel: And they can manage their own company, they don’t get cabin fever, if they’re stuck in a, you know, three weeks storm there. Okay.

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Mike Mandel: But the problem is the no lower loop. If you see the baseline that the letter rests on

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Mike Mandel: And then that will be loop descends below it. The baseline is the line of conscious awareness everything down below the circle of that g, which is sitting on the baseline everything below it, because unconscious and everything down there is very, very interesting. So I’m seeing lower loops.

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You know,

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Mike Mandel: This is called a coil. You don’t see it very often. That’s a really nasty trait that’s somebody who after your life up pretty bad. And of course the my favorite for the nasty ones. This one, the felons claw.

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, where it has, it has to have a point must have a point in order to qualify the phones clause found in the handwriting of something like 80% of

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Mike Mandel: inmates in the US Penitentiary system. And so it’s not something you want to add your writing. I tell people you have that remove it. But so back to this whole grapple therapy thing.

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Mike Mandel: I had this, you know, made some changes my writing my lower loops Elaine looked at them and she said,

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Mike Mandel: This. These are thoughts that are not making it your conscious awareness is stuck in the unconscious. You’ve got all this creativity. It’s not getting out there.

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Mike Mandel: Complete those loops, make them large make them cross the baseline. I did became a frickin create a monster, you know, Ma che engage with all our stuff our podcast newbie thing and

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Mike Mandel: Mind state bringing all this stuff, it is I get more ideas now that we can use it. That’s my job is to create content so

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Mike Mandel: Among other things. So one of the things I changed my writing was I saw the literary Dean and I highly recommend you both put this in your writing. It’s beautiful, the literary D is a small letter D, but instead of like I’m drawn at the top.

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Mike Mandel: It’ll be one of these that you’ll see on the bottom, something more like this. Okay. So there we are. So the top is a typical small letter D.

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Mike Mandel: These it can look like a musical note like a six or whatever. Anyway, these ds. The bottom line is you start in the middle and work outward from there to the tail. Okay, that’s the sequencing, this

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Mike Mandel: I was in the British Museum in London, England, I got to look at the writing and Samuel Johnson Lewis Carroll Dickens, they all have to literally do all of them way with words and writing ability so I

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Mike Mandel: Wound up putting that in my writing way with words and writing ability forgot about it absolutely forgot about it and then

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Mike Mandel: The weirdest thing happened.

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Mike Mandel: I was explaining something to my wife and I want to, oh I need these books. I gotta get this to my my course address went down the world’s biggest bookstore again.

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Mike Mandel: It’s the figures and all the stories and I needed to get a stack of books for this training.

00:11:12.990 –> 00:11:22.410
Mike Mandel: And it’s dead. I came back with about six hardcover poetry books Byron Katie’s Shelley. My wife said, What’s with the poetry, I said.

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Mike Mandel: I get it. I said I opened it, and he said she walks in beauty like the night of cloud was climbs and stories, guys.

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Mike Mandel: And all that it’s best to dark I might need inner aspect in her eyes. That’s mellow to that tender line which heaven to Gaudi day denies Kenneth Branagh so she says, you idiot, you put the literary D in your writing months ago you forgot about it all of a sudden

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Mike Mandel: Have a freakin clue. This is zero interest to me like I understood it, it’s like a machine as I’m reading it, it’s going inside now like a hypnotic induction I wound up founding the Val de mar group, which was a poetry group in Toronto and we would meet and write together just got

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Mike Mandel: Hurt stories won a prize was printed by the Toronto Star. I mean, it’s changed your writing, change your personality change your personality change your life and I recommend everybody put the literary Diem to Greek thing to have.

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Kathy Gruver: That’s so cool. Okay, so I have three questions that I’m you’re constantly. So, whoops, as I wax up off my wall. So if the writing slopes downward as you’re writing it versus sloping upward as you’re writing it, and also the signature and like crossing yourself out. And that’s all

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, yeah. Great stuff writing that gently slopes down is someone who’s mood is kind of on a downswing. It doesn’t mean they were depressed.

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Mike Mandel: But writing that is the level is level emotions of writing that slopes upward tends to bring in optimism. Now, any trait that is out of

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Mike Mandel: Is done too much is not a good thing. So when we see optimism, where it’s like, almost, you know, a diagonal on the page 45 degrees that’s that’s overcompensation for something

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Mike Mandel: As somebody trying to be optimistic, so

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Mike Mandel: Even that will come up, but a gentle upslope you’ll see it also in the T bars of the small letter t if they’re up slanted you’re bringing an optimism. In fact, one of the best things your listeners and viewers can do

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Mike Mandel: With your own handwriting complete those lower loops and make your T bars high up on the stem long

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Mike Mandel: And pointed slightly upward. Make sure they’re touching the stem. The height of your T bars will show you how how you set your goals in life.

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Mike Mandel: And you want to set high goals. You don’t want to be just struggling. If you get low low goals at the low self esteem showing in the writing, people would know, different, different plans.

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Mike Mandel: I got real fast at this guys because I used to do a lecture called only about five years ago called Are You dating a psychopath. And they do this to the college

00:13:47.580 –> 00:13:57.330
Mike Mandel: Lecture on psychopathy and would then teach the psychopathic traits shown in hand. Right. And people will then bring me their own writing. And I do like 60 kids graph ology in

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Mike Mandel: Two minutes each, just one after another. And if a couple came up together. It would be amazing. The guy has inflated P stems that’s physicality, but he’s also got extreme jealousy and aggressive

00:14:09.660 –> 00:14:15.030
Mike Mandel: I said, bro. You’ve got to get your jealousy under control. You’re going to kill somebody, and wind up in jail. She turned some said, I told you.

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Mike Mandel: It’s great.

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Mike Mandel: So we’ve said now the signature is another one you just brought up that way to understand the signature. Is this the personality shows up in the handwriting. So the, the typical writing ideally written on

00:14:30.540 –> 00:14:41.670
Mike Mandel: Online paper with their favorite pen or pencil. Nobody writes anymore, but you still can. And so typical handwriting will give the actual personality, whereas the signature.

00:14:42.330 –> 00:14:50.070
Mike Mandel: Gives the personality on parade. This is the, this is the mask, people were in public. This is the public person, whereas the

00:14:50.550 –> 00:14:58.050
Mike Mandel: Writing is the private person. So imagine what one of the traits that goes with introversion is tiny, tiny writing. It’s also extremely high concentration

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Mike Mandel: So if someone is tiny writing. They have great powers of concentration, you can put them to work in a room, surrounded by people and they won’t be distracted.

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Mike Mandel: You get somebody with huge writing, they’re much more aware of their surroundings. They’re monitoring every conversation that’s going on the concentration isn’t great.

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Mike Mandel: But let’s say you get tiny writing and a big signature. This is someone who can make a presentation of being so out there and in your face and

00:15:18.990 –> 00:15:36.150
Mike Mandel: You know, but in reality they are completely withdrawn in their personality, you’re not getting the real thing. Ideally, with a partner either business or romantic whatever you want their handwriting to look very much, if not identical to their signature because what that says.

00:15:36.390 –> 00:15:38.310
Mike Mandel: Is you’re not getting any persona.

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Mike Mandel: What you see is exactly what you get. And if you’re scratching through your signature is Cathy just ass. That’s a really bad thing if you write your full name.

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Mike Mandel: None of it should be X through. That’s a bad, bad thing. In fact, for women. If you see a woman signature and she’s married and has taken her husband’s surname.

00:15:59.910 –> 00:16:13.260
Mike Mandel: If she crosses surname. It means their marriage is on the rocks. You’ll also see it when the surname and the first name move further and further apart over time in the signature. They’re getting distant their relationship without any questions and

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Mike Mandel: With a man if he crosses out the surname.

00:16:17.610 –> 00:16:24.600
Mike Mandel: Of course he crosses the entire name out he’s down on himself. It’d be crosses out the surname, it will be his father or his family that he has issues with

00:16:24.930 –> 00:16:30.000
Mike Mandel: My driver in England, I had a couple of miners. I did five tours of them universities that are used to do.

00:16:30.660 –> 00:16:38.700
Mike Mandel: Hypnosis or electric every night, except Sunday for two weeks in a row. It was exhausting. So drivers who are temporarily police drove me everywhere. What Paul was just a riot.

00:16:39.390 –> 00:16:43.530
Mike Mandel: Paul Giles 300 pounds six foot seven. One of the funniest human beings. I’ve ever met.

00:16:44.070 –> 00:16:52.110
Mike Mandel: And people would say you’re not like any policeman. I never met. He goes, Look, no. I’m a difference. So two policemen. If I’m a little bit worried a little bit will

00:16:53.100 –> 00:17:02.700
Mike Mandel: freak people out anyways great sense of humor in the car. He said, Son, what is my signature show hands is drivers know he’s warrant police weren’t card over which is like they’re like

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Mike Mandel: It’s a signature, first name, Paul second name.

00:17:08.550 –> 00:17:11.340
Mike Mandel: I said Tom, any issues with your dad. He goes,

00:17:12.630 –> 00:17:14.430
Mike Mandel: Only every single day for the last 30 years

00:17:15.930 –> 00:17:23.850
Mike Mandel: Just great. But it’s still freaks me out. It still amazes me one of my teachers bill harms. They don’t be still alive and Chicago

00:17:24.240 –> 00:17:30.240
Mike Mandel: He talked about a guy who they were involved in the church when he started learning graph graph analysis with the trademark term.

00:17:30.870 –> 00:17:39.840
Mike Mandel: He saw all kinds of really bad stuff in this guy’s writing. And everyone said, No, no, no, there’s no way. There’s no way, no, he’s fine, he’s like two years later and doesn’t let goes to jail. It’s like

00:17:40.770 –> 00:17:49.170
Mike Mandel: Crazy that you can tell from ambiguous numbers. The embezzler do ambiguous numbers. Is that a six or is it a squiggle, what is that a one or a seven.

00:17:50.340 –> 00:18:09.060
Jason Mefford: Comes out. We’ll see. We’ll see. That’s why because in my career right how I got introduced to handwriting analysis was from the forensic and fraud standpoint, so we’d be doing investigations, right, one of the reasons why you have people do hand written confessions is for that same reason.

00:18:10.110 –> 00:18:20.880
Jason Mefford: And trying to have a. So that’s what, that’s why when Kathy was like hey Mike wants to talk about handwriting analysis. I’m like, cool. I want to see how he’s going to tie this in because I’ve only had the other side to it. But this whole

00:18:20.880 –> 00:18:30.360
Jason Mefford: Right made with, you know, graph. Oh therapy, being able to actually change ourselves, but also, you know, I’m guessing, as well as a as a therapist.

00:18:31.800 –> 00:18:37.140
Jason Mefford: Analyzing somebody handwriting, to be able to help pinpoint in on where they need the help, right.

00:18:37.140 –> 00:18:47.910
Mike Mandel: Yes, absolutely. One of my students as a psychologist in Spain and Spain and Portugal can remember he sent me an email and said, I got an attachment. He said, this is one of my patients. He says, This person suicidal.

00:18:48.840 –> 00:18:55.590
Mike Mandel: And I looked at his writing and all the upper zones where the T’s and the elves in the HS go that’s all abstract thinking it’s also your moral code.

00:18:56.460 –> 00:19:05.610
Mike Mandel: And it’s, it was extremely long and the lower zones are almost non existent, the middle is almost constricted, which is day to day relationships and friendships. It’s all the Brazil was excessive.

00:19:05.880 –> 00:19:14.730
Mike Mandel: I said this is a guy who lives and nothing but theories. I said he lives in his head. He’s totally anti social. He said, Yeah. He said, You won’t believe it. You see, he’s a PhD in theoretical physics.

00:19:15.150 –> 00:19:16.200
Mike Mandel: And the shows and this writing

00:19:16.410 –> 00:19:17.640
Mike Mandel: But he was suicidal.

00:19:18.210 –> 00:19:19.410
Mike Mandel: And the way you determine that.

00:19:19.440 –> 00:19:31.170
Mike Mandel: It’s a terrifying trade. I’ve only run into a couple of times you see the end of the line of writing end of the line of writing on a page fairly consistent and then suddenly one word will just dip. At the end of the line.

00:19:31.590 –> 00:19:46.110
Mike Mandel: And then it goes back to strike that is the number one predictor of successful suicide not doing it to, you know, an attempt to get attention out successful and the other one that you know through the the signature and then maybe it’s looking at sampling. When we look at

00:19:46.440 –> 00:19:47.640
Mike Mandel: The other one through the signature.

00:19:48.780 –> 00:19:57.960
Mike Mandel: There’s a stroke in handwriting, where if the end it’s great to underline your signature. Everybody should underline their signature with a single left to right, underscore, just one

00:19:58.380 –> 00:20:07.320
Mike Mandel: Not going through the name. It’s okay to go through the descending letters, but just underline the name that brings in self reliance, the ability to go it alone. When you have to

00:20:07.770 –> 00:20:25.830
Mike Mandel: And it’s very, very strong. And it’s one of the leadership traits as his enthusiasm, which is a long t bar. So it’s a great one for everybody to have. But suppose they do finish the name and then they use the end the last letter and come back through their name and then back out again.

00:20:26.220 –> 00:20:27.720
Mike Mandel: That is so specific.

00:20:27.750 –> 00:20:40.800
Mike Mandel: It’s called the bullet through the rifle through the bullet through the head stroke rifle bullet through the head stroke and Tom. What’s the name Hunter S. Thompson before he killed himself. Gonzo journalist his signature change. You can look at it online.

00:20:40.890 –> 00:20:41.730
Kathy Gruver: He had fallen through the

00:20:42.000 –> 00:20:44.100
Mike Mandel: headstone killed himself with a rifle bullet through the head

00:20:45.480 –> 00:20:50.220
Mike Mandel: Hemingway. Same thing signature change. Put that stroke and blow his brains out with a rifle.

00:20:51.240 –> 00:20:58.500
Mike Mandel: I was at a small community college working with kids doing the demos for them and looking at the writing and giving them you know recommendations, what they should change their handwriting.

00:20:59.460 –> 00:21:04.200
Mike Mandel: And they all left. I was packing up and the custodian came over and just a stocking guy.

00:21:04.620 –> 00:21:11.130
Mike Mandel: Get tattoos that we’re not like these beautiful clean ones that I have. They look like freaking jail art like they were done with a ballpoint pen and a razor blade.

00:21:11.760 –> 00:21:23.400
Mike Mandel: And he said, Can you look at my writing is ensure we sat down. He had the suicide thing at the end of the line. I’ve only seen it twice. That was the first time and he had the bullet through the head stroke in his signature.

00:21:23.880 –> 00:21:25.380
Mike Mandel: I said, Dude, you gotta

00:21:26.040 –> 00:21:40.050
Mike Mandel: You gotta do rifles in your house. He said, Yeah, I got a few. I said, You ever think you use them on yourself. He said crosses my mind from time to time. I said, buddy. And I showed him in the writing was really surprised that you got to get that shit out of your writing and

00:21:41.460 –> 00:21:42.900
Mike Mandel: As far as I know nothing happened to him.

00:21:43.920 –> 00:21:44.280
Kathy Gruver: Wow.

00:21:45.420 –> 00:21:46.950
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, so I have

00:21:48.660 –> 00:21:53.130
Kathy Gruver: Actually have two things I want you to look at. So share my screen, Jason.

00:21:53.340 –> 00:21:54.060
Mike Mandel: Yeah yeah

00:21:54.720 –> 00:21:55.170
Jason Mefford: Yeah. Oh.

00:21:55.230 –> 00:21:56.280
Mike Mandel: You’re asking him. Yeah.

00:21:57.060 –> 00:21:59.310
Kathy Gruver: I have permission to do that. Okay, so can you see that

00:22:00.090 –> 00:22:05.280
Mike Mandel: I’ve got America. Okay, this is unusual because it’s all over another background.

00:22:06.330 –> 00:22:12.660
Mike Mandel: Immediately, make it difficult. We also have different writing instruments used so

00:22:14.820 –> 00:22:29.580
Mike Mandel: What, oh gosh, you had a lot of analytical ability, a lot to analyze extremely well it seems to be hinting at some diplomatic ability to which is the ability to smooth things over with other people when necessary, but there’s a lot of deep emotions here.

00:22:31.710 –> 00:22:33.060
Mike Mandel: Too much on the go, like,

00:22:34.200 –> 00:22:40.590
Mike Mandel: Overwhelmed it’s hard to say because ideally we want online paper and a typical, typical writing

00:22:41.220 –> 00:22:43.140
Kathy Gruver: This is how he takes all of his notes.

00:22:43.830 –> 00:22:48.330
Kathy Gruver: He grabbed some other piece of paper that’s already got stuff on it and uses out of scratch paper.

00:22:49.980 –> 00:22:54.120
Mike Mandel: said anything. Well, that you can see the size of it. Some of it is very small.

00:22:54.330 –> 00:22:58.380
Mike Mandel: So we’re seeing some good strong powers of concentration there. So it’s not surprising that guess it

00:22:58.890 –> 00:23:09.360
Mike Mandel: Somebody who was able to sort that out but we’re seeing print writing to like some of its writing something that’s printing, so that, again, kind of muddies the water a little bit. I’d love to see an original

00:23:09.870 –> 00:23:15.030
Kathy Gruver: Yeah. Is this there is because I’m a I have print and half cursive

00:23:15.450 –> 00:23:16.710
Mike Mandel: Yeah, that’s pretty typical

00:23:18.180 –> 00:23:18.450
Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

00:23:18.570 –> 00:23:20.250
Mike Mandel: Okay, so that’s pretty typical. Yeah.

00:23:20.940 –> 00:23:22.860
Kathy Gruver: All right, what’s that look like to

00:23:24.210 –> 00:23:32.280
Mike Mandel: This is out of control, aggression, somebody who doesn’t listen to other people who is able to be a bully who’s able to

00:23:32.970 –> 00:23:38.310
Mike Mandel: It’s got the club stroke, both at the beginning and at the end. And those down strokes of a club ending that’s cruelty.

00:23:39.120 –> 00:23:45.270
Mike Mandel: The extreme angles. When you think angle think anger. This is someone who drives ahead pushes ahead.

00:23:45.570 –> 00:23:57.000
Mike Mandel: And it’s clearly smudged as well meaning appetites that can get out of control, very deep emotion resentment that would be carried forever able to analyze things to death. Only when it’s to advantage.

00:23:58.200 –> 00:23:59.280
Kathy Gruver: Donald trump signature.

00:24:00.780 –> 00:24:00.990
Kathy Gruver: You’ll

00:24:01.020 –> 00:24:02.460
Mike Mandel: Never be able to read that one boy.

00:24:03.900 –> 00:24:06.990
Mike Mandel: You see, you see the up and left like the up and down jagat

00:24:07.260 –> 00:24:21.690
Mike Mandel: Yeah angles angles or anger and we’re seeing analytical ability and sourcing ability. This is, um, yeah. The club strokes down strokes Jackie Kennedy had the club strokes, the same two

00:24:23.010 –> 00:24:30.900
Mike Mandel: Strokes, the ability to be cruel and controlling with other yeah this is, this has got control over it. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

00:24:31.470 –> 00:24:39.960
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I just because I thought, because we’re filming this on January 7 so yesterday was sort of a holiday in America. So I thought,

00:24:41.400 –> 00:24:42.660
Mike Mandel: So I heard yeah I

00:24:42.660 –> 00:24:44.400
Kathy Gruver: Wonder what his signature looks like interesting

00:24:44.520 –> 00:24:44.940
Kathy Gruver: It’s a

00:24:45.690 –> 00:24:48.030
Mike Mandel: D in it. There’s no d that I can see.

00:24:48.570 –> 00:24:53.190
Kathy Gruver: There’s another one there. You kind of got a little bit of a D, but it never closes.

00:24:53.190 –> 00:24:53.550
Kathy Gruver: Right.

00:24:53.640 –> 00:24:54.630
Yes, I believe.

00:24:55.980 –> 00:24:56.100
Jason Mefford: Angled

00:24:56.460 –> 00:24:56.940

00:24:58.230 –> 00:25:00.090
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I guess that’s a D. I don’t know.

00:25:01.170 –> 00:25:09.960
Mike Mandel: To what’s interesting here to you see the, the second tall peak. So the first if it’s the d, then in the same name. It will be the L.

00:25:10.020 –> 00:25:10.890
Kathy Gruver: Okay. That’s, yeah.

00:25:11.550 –> 00:25:11.790
Kathy Gruver: Yep.

00:25:11.850 –> 00:25:13.920
Mike Mandel: The retracing in that the heavy

00:25:13.920 –> 00:25:15.060
Kathy Gruver: retracing

00:25:15.090 –> 00:25:16.800
Mike Mandel: Is repressed emotions.

00:25:17.400 –> 00:25:17.820
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, there’s

00:25:18.360 –> 00:25:20.850
Kathy Gruver: Stuff in the loop. And now, yeah.

00:25:20.910 –> 00:25:21.360

00:25:22.800 –> 00:25:24.120
Kathy Gruver: And I guess that’s the J.

00:25:26.010 –> 00:25:27.060
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, that the tea.

00:25:28.170 –> 00:25:29.670
Jason Mefford: The tea. That’s not cross through

00:25:29.730 –> 00:25:32.310
Kathy Gruver: Well, because that the cross. I mean, that’s what’s interesting

00:25:32.910 –> 00:25:33.510
Mike Mandel: Um,

00:25:34.110 –> 00:25:35.010
No, but that’s also

00:25:36.510 –> 00:25:51.900
Mike Mandel: The overwhelming thing, the overwhelming thing is the angles and the depth by depth. We call it color meaning just help fix the lines are how much smeared ink is there is incredible emotional depth emotional depth is someone who can hold a grudge for ever.

00:25:53.850 –> 00:25:54.060
Jason Mefford: Yeah.

00:25:54.180 –> 00:25:55.950
Kathy Gruver: I think we’ve proven that one. Okay.

00:25:57.090 –> 00:25:58.350
Kathy Gruver: I’m going to stop sharing my screen.

00:25:58.770 –> 00:26:01.440
Mike Mandel: Signature though, so perhaps you’d be like, it’s not like

00:26:02.730 –> 00:26:04.170
Mike Mandel: We have to look at the rest of the writing.

00:26:06.180 –> 00:26:08.670
Jason Mefford: There’s a lot of writing on the wall for that character, but anyway.

00:26:12.360 –> 00:26:13.440
Kathy Gruver: Any questions from

00:26:13.680 –> 00:26:17.190
Jason Mefford: Yeah, well, I wanted to ask, because I know I know we’re gonna have to kind of wrap up here.

00:26:17.520 –> 00:26:25.980
Jason Mefford: fairly quick. But I know there’s been a transition from you know what the cursive

00:26:26.040 –> 00:26:32.550
Jason Mefford: If you will, writing that we all learned growing up and I was talking with one of my you know 25 year old stepson

00:26:33.330 –> 00:26:38.580
Jason Mefford: And you know he was, he tried to make a Christmas. He likes to draw Christmas cards for us right so

00:26:39.270 –> 00:26:47.760
Jason Mefford: He was, he was trying to do like this curse of Merry Christmas, and it was just really Ali all garbled and then he kind of wrote fuck cursive and did everything

00:26:48.540 –> 00:27:05.550
Jason Mefford: Letters right but but but no. I mean, it was funny. But in talking to him literally that he was never really taught cursive and he difficulty as I’m guessing most younger people do, because I think they even quit teaching cursive in school.

00:27:05.790 –> 00:27:16.080
Mike Mandel: Yeah, they did. They stopped teaching cursive they stopped teaching grammar here in Canada, and it’s really unfortunate because the Palmer method is an old K Foundation for learning from

00:27:16.440 –> 00:27:25.080
Mike Mandel: But part of brain development requires fine motor skills. Yeah. And one of the things that is lost when kids do not learn cursive writing

00:27:25.440 –> 00:27:35.880
Mike Mandel: Is they lose a lot of cause and effect thinking to it is part of the brain development. There’s an entire book written on this. It’s called won’t be lost or so it’s not the title, but something like that. So trying to find it again.

00:27:36.210 –> 00:27:47.850
Mike Mandel: And it’s all about how taking away cursive writing how it’s having a tremendously bad effect on kids when I over the years that I’ve done these lectures. The graph ology lectures. The university circuit.

00:27:48.570 –> 00:27:59.430
Mike Mandel: I’m looking at kids writing now, and some of them can can barely even print you know it’s it’s really unfortunate we’re seeing I’m seeing a ton of low self esteem and poor thinking skills.

00:28:00.360 –> 00:28:07.680
Mike Mandel: And then again. The exception is, I was at Sheridan College in the western to Toronto and the kids. They’re mostly Southeast Asian

00:28:08.430 –> 00:28:23.370
Mike Mandel: And they had amazing writing skills really high tea bars incredible high achievers. So there is a correlation there somewhere. And hey, I want to remember to say that we have a special promotion for your awesome listeners.

00:28:25.470 –> 00:28:30.120
Mike Mandel: I have my entire online graph ology training and maybe put a link to this on your

00:28:30.450 –> 00:28:31.080
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, of course.

00:28:31.140 –> 00:28:39.870
Mike Mandel: Your entire online graph ology training, which was taught in in Toronto at the University of Toronto. We rent space there. I’m not part of the university but

00:28:40.350 –> 00:28:52.800
Mike Mandel: We taught a class there and the notes that come with it, but mostly it’s a live class you’re seeing all edited down and then I believe we supplemented it with the entire class I taught in Las Vegas. So both of them are in the product.

00:28:53.730 –> 00:29:08.940
Mike Mandel: You can go to Mike Mandel with one L Mike Mandel hypnosis com forward slash graph ology and it’s there and for anybody listening. Your to this podcast. We’ve given you the promo code, which is

00:29:10.050 –> 00:29:11.340
Mike Mandel: Let’s get it right.

00:29:12.510 –> 00:29:20.580
Mike Mandel: I said earthen fire didn’t make yes earth and fire as one word, with no gotta leave things now.

00:29:21.450 –> 00:29:24.540
Mike Mandel: Fire with no words with no spaces.

00:29:26.010 –> 00:29:30.030
Mike Mandel: all lowercase. So that’s promo code if you enter that you get 100 bucks off the training.

00:29:30.390 –> 00:29:33.810
Kathy Gruver: Nice. Is it fire and fire is

00:29:33.930 –> 00:29:34.950
Mike Mandel: What’s the new podcast.

00:29:35.040 –> 00:29:37.470
Mike Mandel: fire fire fire in her

00:29:39.810 –> 00:29:40.140
Jason Mefford: Right.

00:29:42.840 –> 00:29:46.110
Kathy Gruver: Never get never get first billing. So it was exciting for a second.

00:29:46.110 –> 00:29:47.190
Mike Mandel: Fire and

00:29:49.230 –> 00:29:51.360
Jason Mefford: Sorry, we did at the anyway.

00:29:51.450 –> 00:29:51.930
Kathy Gruver: Right. Oh.

00:29:53.130 –> 00:29:54.600
Jason Mefford: Wow. Well, this. I mean, this has been

00:29:55.980 –> 00:30:10.560
Jason Mefford: Entertaining but way educational to because again it’s, you know, I never realize the, the impact it can have from a therapeutic standpoint, but also for a, you know, changing your personality by

00:30:10.560 –> 00:30:11.970
Mike Mandel: Change. Yes, yes.

00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:13.410
Jason Mefford: Right as well.

00:30:13.500 –> 00:30:24.240
Jason Mefford: Yeah, and and how important it is. So I’m sitting there, because I’m usually always a note taker. So now I’m sitting here going, Oh, how are mighty, mighty bars. Hi. Are they going up until the, you know, I’m sitting near

00:30:25.830 –> 00:30:27.000
Mike Mandel: The line dropping. Yeah.

00:30:27.030 –> 00:30:31.680
Mike Mandel: Yeah, yeah, it’ll serve you very well and it’s a great skill for therapists, because

00:30:31.950 –> 00:30:41.160
Mike Mandel: I’ve got a client today in Australia. Very seldom see them, but he’s already emailed me his handwriting or emailed it sends us an attachment, so I’ll be looking at that. I’ll know who he is. Before I meet with him.

00:30:41.460 –> 00:30:41.760

00:30:43.200 –> 00:30:58.080
Kathy Gruver: And when I did my hypnosis training. We did an entire like three part on on graph ology. And when I have my clients do affirmations or right out. Girls are shopping list write in cursive it goes directly to the subconscious as opposed to typing it with fingers your thumb.

00:30:58.110 –> 00:30:59.550
Mike Mandel: You know, all that stuff. So God and

00:30:59.550 –> 00:30:59.760

00:31:01.050 –> 00:31:02.460
Kathy Gruver: Was very excited to see what you thought it was

00:31:04.620 –> 00:31:04.920
Jason Mefford: At least

00:31:06.390 –> 00:31:12.120
Mike Mandel: Give me, give me a real sample on paper signed and dated send it to me and I’ll be more than happy to evaluate it for you.

00:31:12.570 –> 00:31:15.930
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I wish to look at them like to because we were going to do that man never sent it to you. So

00:31:16.590 –> 00:31:17.280
Mike Mandel: Not a problem.

00:31:17.460 –> 00:31:21.750
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, this has been so fun. I just, I love you, Mike, you’re just so I

00:31:21.750 –> 00:31:22.080
Mike Mandel: Love it.

00:31:23.730 –> 00:31:24.210
Kathy Gruver: I know

00:31:25.980 –> 00:31:26.970
Jason Mefford: We’re hide me

00:31:27.450 –> 00:31:35.550
Kathy Gruver: I just, I love it. You’re so willing to share all this info. I actually took your graph ology class in Vegas. So I’m excited. That’s, that’s included with that. It’s just so good so

00:31:36.210 –> 00:31:44.130
Kathy Gruver: Everybody, go go to my site will put everything in the lower thirds will put everything in the show notes and check out your handwriting. See what it looks like.

00:31:45.270 –> 00:31:48.090
Kathy Gruver: I’m Kathy Gruber. I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

00:31:48.510 –> 00:31:53.850
Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out, get Mike’s course.

00:31:54.210 –> 00:32:07.560
Jason Mefford: And start being a little bit more conscious about how you’re actually writing and what that might mean about what you’re doing. And if you want to change, change what you’re doing, you know, go back. Listen to this again because Mike dropped some big bombs out

00:32:07.560 –> 00:32:19.230
Jason Mefford: There that if you just actually start taking some of the things he said, even today, you’ll start making a difference. So we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast. See you.

00:32:19.530 –> 00:32:20.010
Mike Mandel: Thanks a lot.

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