Need help with public speaking? If so, then this episode is for YOU!

Today we discuss how to connect with your audience and deliver engaging speeches and presentations with Nicole Garrett

Nicole has been a long time actress who later found her calling in helping others build up their presence and become brilliant orators.

Reach out to Nicole at [email protected] or

Listen in at:


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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast i’m your co host Jason method.

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kathygruver: And i’m Kathy gruver and we are so excited to have another guest on a very dear friend of mine i’ve known her for a while now, one of my favorite people Nicole Garrett.

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Nicole Garrett: hey it’s good to be here.

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kathygruver: Good good good, so why don’t you tell everyone who you are what you do, how you got to this point, all that good stuff and we’ll launch from there.

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Nicole Garrett: Alright, well, as you said, i’m Nicole Garrett and i’m a presentation skills coach and I started this business a couple years ago and i’ll give you the background as quickly and efficiently as I can.

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Nicole Garrett: I spent my teenage years and, most of my adult life immersed in the performing arts I earned a degree in theater.

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Nicole Garrett: I worked as a professional actress and singer and I became a director and an educator and long story short.

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Nicole Garrett: I moved out West I came out West for a show, and then I wound up staying here and and then I basically traveled living out West from gig to gig because I.

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Nicole Garrett: found myself in Jackson hole and not being able to work as an artist in Jackson hole, and I was on the road working a lot and.

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Nicole Garrett: Somebody called me to come back to Jackson hole and direct to show and I met my husband and the man who’s now my husband and was also really fortunate, the two of my friends broadway musicians were living out here, and I was able to work with them.

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Nicole Garrett: And all of that came to a grinding halt just a couple years into my marriage when my accompanist developed a glioblastoma and he died of brain cancer.

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Nicole Garrett: And I literally found myself at a crossroads here, I was as an artist living in Jackson hole, with no one to really work with so fast forward a couple months.

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Nicole Garrett: I went to New York with my husband he works in tech and I attended a conference with him and I went to a couple of the presentations.

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Nicole Garrett: And I was sitting in the audience at these presentations and I found myself diving into my bag and pulling out a notebook and a pen.

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Nicole Garrett: and taking notes free virtually on everything the prisoner was doing that I could have helped him do better.

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Nicole Garrett: And I walked out of the building that day and I said to my husband, I have found my next chapter, and I am not kidding you.

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Nicole Garrett: The doors literally flew open that day I reached out to a friend, I told him about my new career change and he said oh you got to call this person in New York and this person, and I did, and I met with him like that weekend everything just unfolded, and here we are today.

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Nicole Garrett: The rest is history.

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Jason Mefford: Well it’s funny when you say that right, because I mean all of us are speakers and in our in I remember that.

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Jason Mefford: You know you reaching in your bag pulling out your notebook and starting to take notes it’s like when when we’re sitting in conferences right if you’re a speaker.

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Jason Mefford: You take notes, but it’s not the same notes everybody else has taken right and so it’s like you can look around you can look around right and it’s like.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, those are the people that are here to learn yeah oh there’s another one there’s another one there’s another one we’re taking notes about.

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Jason Mefford: different things at different times like oh I liked how he brought that story into it, oh That was good.

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Nicole Garrett: On cross right.

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Jason Mefford: yeah that was.

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Jason Mefford: That was really great.

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Nicole Garrett: he’s already.

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Jason Mefford: Oh there’s a great call back you know that was at the beginning, right so so it’s it’s interesting and it’s you know it’s it’s a fascinating.

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Jason Mefford: Business anyway right, so I mean it’s it’s great that like you said, the doors just flew open for you, you know when you decided that that’s what you needed to do right and and so.

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kathygruver: what’s so funny is first of all I love all the pivots you know you find yourself at that crossroads you’re like ah, and you just being open to the next thing and finding yourself in a completely.

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kathygruver: Seemingly unrelated situation made the choice of Oh, I know what i’m going to do and what’s funny is I sat in a conference in Vegas my very first like big conference for natural paths and I was taking taking notes on the content and then this woman was speaking, and I was like.

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kathygruver: What does she do and I started taking on one side of the paper and take notes on her.

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kathygruver: And the other side of the paper, I took notes on the content.

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kathygruver: And I had the exact same thought, as you except I turned to my friend next to me, and when I should be up there, doing that.

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kathygruver: wow, even though I was a director, I was an act we’ve the same I forgot to be a fan theater and we kind of went the same route on that I looked up there, and when I want to get up there and use it, I want to fix that so I love that we sat in the previous the same situation.

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kathygruver: yeah and looked at it from two different perspectives I I absolutely love that so the three of us were on stage we know what would you coach people to do that I coach people to do that jason’s the best speaker in the world.

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Jason Mefford: Oh wow Thank you.

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Nicole Garrett: yeah.

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kathygruver: Well i’ve never seen him actually speak but.

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Jason Mefford: it’s funny because you know my my background has been in such technical areas in a lot at risk management compliance really sexy exciting things right so so you go to those conferences introduced literally.

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Nicole Garrett: As I see an exciting things by.

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Jason Mefford: People read Oh, thank you, thank you i’m glad somebody i’m just trying to bring the sexy to those those areas right because most of the time it’s just somebody.

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Jason Mefford: said, you know justin’s going in my head anyway all right here we go but.

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Jason Mefford: But it’s it’s so boring, most of the time because it’s like listening to a professor, give a lecture and now on the next slide we have blah blah blah right.

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Jason Mefford: And and that’s not how people learn to write and so again it’s that that whole idea of bringing something that’s different to actually help people learn and actually connect with them as a human so many people that are speaker is don’t actually do their talkers they’re not speakers.

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Nicole Garrett: So interesting to hear you say that I mean even this this week I have worked with three new clients who are clearly so in their head about the content and what they’re going to say.

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Nicole Garrett: That they don’t understand the importance of their relationship with the audience.

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Nicole Garrett: and connecting with the audience and speaking with the audience and listening to the audience.

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Nicole Garrett: And I find time and time again that really is where a big roadblock occurs, that they are caught up so much and.

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Nicole Garrett: What do I say how good is it going to be, it has to be perfect at a dot that they’re missing the point that your audience is 50% of the conversation that you’re having and without them there’s no presentation to go ahead.

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kathygruver: Absolutely well, and this is what i’ve had people say how do you memorize that whole thing okay I don’t memorize it i’m telling stories.

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Nicole Garrett: yeah.

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kathygruver: And it doesn’t matter what order I do it in unless you know I started a story, and then I turned the PowerPoint on it it’s the wrong slide but it’s like use use the PowerPoint as a.

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kathygruver: Key to get to the next thing, but I remember standing you I was in speaker training, which was ridiculous because I knew more than the woman teaching it but.

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kathygruver: i’m a speaker training and this memorized her talk.

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kathygruver: word for word.

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kathygruver: And women seen people memorize word for word, as if it’s a term paper it ends up being a nightmare, because they get to a certain.

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kathygruver: get to a certain.

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kathygruver: And they can’t remember their life.

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Jason Mefford: Well yeah it’s not like an acting where you can go line and you do the retakes.

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kathygruver: To read, I went to nursing school in 1992 to 90 like you don’t know where you went to put the paper down, you know so.

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kathygruver: there’s all these these tips and things that we could do what, what are the biggest pitfalls after the getting in your own head thing one of the biggest pitfalls, you see, with people who need to be speakers or want to be speakers that you help with.

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Nicole Garrett: If i’m thinking right now just from my experience this week, working with people who, who are working in corporate or executive directors working in nonprofits actually it is the lack of preparation oh.

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Nicole Garrett: yeah now on the flip side there are a couple people who way over prepare.

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Nicole Garrett: Right like you said memorizing a word for word, by the front line, but that lack of preparation, when you don’t have a lot of experience standing up in front of a group of people, I think, can really actually cause.

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Nicole Garrett: trouble for this finger, you have someone like you Kathy who it’s your it’s what you do you speak to audiences so you’ve got that ingrained in you and it’s a natural part of you, but with people that don’t have a lot of experience.

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Nicole Garrett: I don’t think they understand it’s not that you have to you know work for 1012 hours on on a three minute presentation, but understanding how to prepare properly for it and that really is dependent on the person who’s giving the presentation, I think.

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kathygruver: So, for how do you prepare properly, I mean pick a random person, how would you recommend they prepare for a three minute presentation.

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Nicole Garrett: Good question it’s a random person.

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Nicole Garrett: The let’s see here the one of the people that I worked with yesterday.

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Nicole Garrett: Has a three minute pitch really terrified of public speaking, but is taking chances and doing it has her material laid out in front of her.

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Nicole Garrett: Right okay that’s how she has prepared I don’t want to take that away from her at the same time, we spent our we spent time having her focus on again, who are you talking to.

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Nicole Garrett: What are you saying to them how are you connecting with them right what and I founded her content, it was very.

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Nicole Garrett: Very intellectual studies show data data data data where’s like you said where’s the story in this yeah.

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Nicole Garrett: What is the way you connect so that’s how we started preparing to look at this okay so you’ve got three minutes, can you tell a story here can you throw in some data, and can you talk to your audience another thing that you know comes up for me, as you say, that is, I.

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Nicole Garrett: I feel very strongly with people that don’t have a lot of experience with presentations is they’ve got to get connected to their why.

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Nicole Garrett: And to their own intrinsic values as to why what it is they’re talking about and what about, it is important to them and conveying that to their audience.

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Nicole Garrett: You know authentically yeah.

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kathygruver: That is such a good point and i’m so glad you said that I go to so many conferences, because i’m speaking at them.

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kathygruver: there’s hypnotherapy conference and there was this woman who I read her the description of what she was talking about and I went oh my God this sounds incredible I want to go see this.

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kathygruver: friend of mine and I we walk into the room is packed people are shoved in this room that should hold.

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kathygruver: 30 people there’s like 80 people that people are sitting on the floor and we’re like Okay, so we plopped down on the floor in the aisle and we’re watching she has an hour and a half to do our talk she spent the first 25 minutes.

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kathygruver: Talking about how she grew up and she was so rich and she had all these things and i’m looking at my friend we’re both like.

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kathygruver: And I finally wrote to him verbal masturbation and I handed over the piece of paper.

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kathygruver: And we finally both with i’m fucking I mean we left it was so hard, but we looked around the room and people were like.

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kathygruver: This and I finally said to him why is she telling us this yes and and.

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kathygruver: I just so many stories in my talks and it’s not because i’m so great and i’m so funny I am funny I am great.

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Nicole Garrett: Yes, you are.

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kathygruver: I i’m telling you the story because there’s a lesson to it because it leads you to this is the stress technique that i’m teaching you.

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kathygruver: And so I encourage people, why are you telling me this, why are you telling me the story, why are you giving me that data and to your point of knowing the audience.

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kathygruver: That is so huge if i’m speaking to 911 dispatchers i’m going to tell slightly different stories that if i’m speaking to a single mom.

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kathygruver: Yes, that if i’m speaking to health and safety guys.

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kathygruver: If I have a room full of all men i’m using my football metaphors i’m not talking about the airy fairy hug it out sing kumbaya stuff.

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kathygruver: i’m making it more practical, so I think you know, knowing your audience and asking yourself why are you telling this I think those are two huge key points I love it.

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Jason Mefford: Well it’s interesting because you’re talking about like three minute deals right.

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Jason Mefford: In, and this is where maybe comes back to the preparation and some of what you saw with that lady spending 25 minutes talking about herself right is.

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Jason Mefford: You know, Brian Tracy told me a long time ago, and this was you know kind of a funny thing right but he’s but he’s you know.

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Jason Mefford: talking with somebody and they’re like well So what do you want me to do well, we want you to do a 10 minute talk okay well that’s going to cost X amount, and I can do it in two weeks right well what if we hire you to do a one hour Okay, well, it would be this amount, maybe.

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Jason Mefford: A little less right and gets down to well hey I want you for a whole day well, should we can start right now, you know kind of thing because the tighter you are in your time.

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Jason Mefford: What are the more preparation you actually have to have right, so I mean it’s the same thing if somebody hires me to come in for a day.

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Jason Mefford: I don’t have to prepare too much right, I can I can there’s a lot of stuff you can do there’s breaks there’s all exercises all kinds of other stuff right, but if somebody wants me for an hour.

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Jason Mefford: Right, I might spend five or eight hours preparing for a one hour speech, especially if it’s a one that I haven’t done before right and again it’s that.

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Jason Mefford: Preparing who’s the audience going to be when do I want to try to use which stories Why am I trying to use those stories.

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Jason Mefford: What emotion, am I trying to get them to feel right and how am I going to weave this all together so that, at the end of the hour.

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Jason Mefford: I get them to take the action or do whatever it is my why behind why i’m actually talking right.

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Jason Mefford: And so you know where you had that lady for an hour and a half she’s probably thinking oh geez you know i’ve only got a half an hour worth of content so i’m going to spend the first half hour telling them about me.

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Jason Mefford: Myself yeah.

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Jason Mefford: So unprepared.

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kathygruver: Well, she didn’t have anything to.

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Nicole Garrett: Stop this time and time again.

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Nicole Garrett: To yeah.

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kathygruver: what’s your it could have been a 10 minute talk.

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kathygruver: yeah and because it was an hour and half, like, I guess, I have to be as my way through, and the fact that people were installed by that.

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kathygruver: I found appalling and I actually talked to the organizer about and he goes yeah you’re not the only person that complained about that she never spoke there again because she wasn’t giving us anything of value right.

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kathygruver: It was weird okay so know your why prepare don’t over prepare don’t under prepare.

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Nicole Garrett: yeah you actually and you reminded me of something else you yesterday I had someone else that I worked with.

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Nicole Garrett: Who has to do a 10 minute presentation in front of a board quarterly.

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Nicole Garrett: And they were feeling all this pressure, because it has to be they have to say this, and this, and this, and this and get all of this content in right, and this is one of our first times, working together, and I said well what would it look like, if you had three points to make.

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Not 23.

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Nicole Garrett: And just considered that less is actually more.

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Nicole Garrett: And it was kind of a mind blowing you know side of wow really.

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Jason Mefford: Special people like threes right just psychological reason for this.

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Nicole Garrett: is funny.

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kathygruver: yeah I only I have one job where forest funding.

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kathygruver: which I won’t tell because it’s very dirty but.

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Nicole Garrett: Oh okay well after the call.

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kathygruver: So Nicole.

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kathygruver: Nicole, as you came up as a performer and what What was your biggest what was the note, you always got what was your biggest foreseeable when you were either performing or speaking like what was your block with it.

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kathygruver: don’t push up.

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Nicole Garrett: yeah don’t push I was absolutely one who tried really hard.

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Nicole Garrett: Because I wanted to do a good job and I wanted it to be perfect.

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Nicole Garrett: And when I remember in college getting busted by my teacher, I mean I did this monologue and I was literally standing I want up standing on a chair yeah emoting to the world and I got up the cherries, like how was that for you.

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Nicole Garrett: You know.

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Nicole Garrett: hey and it was in that moment that he really kind of you know stripped away that.

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Nicole Garrett: wall.

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Nicole Garrett: And the vulnerability came out and I and that’s when I realized Oh, this is what performing is about it’s vulnerable.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and so I wanted, I want to dig in on that a little bit right because a lot of people are talking about authenticity.

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Jason Mefford: As well right and so again, you see this.

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Jason Mefford: From a kind of premise speaking standpoint to right when you put up that wall when you’re trying so hard.

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Jason Mefford: Especially if you’re trying to be someone else right, so a lot of times we’ll we’ll try to emulate.

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Jason Mefford: Somebody else but it’s not us right and so again the audience can tell that’s not really authentic that’s not really who Jason is right, which is why.

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Jason Mefford: I do things a lot different I bring in pop culture and musical references and other stuff just because that’s that’s who I am right I wear colorful shirts, I always wear a hat.

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Jason Mefford: You know, doing different things like that that that is just me, but you know you can look at it, even to like, and I think that’s kind of where you’re getting that too, with this don’t push don’t try too hard, as far as.

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Jason Mefford: Just be yourself right and so again, you can see, if we go back into the you know actor realm there’s certain actors that are just really fucking good at certain roles why because that’s who they are yeah right, I mean Liam neeson he does really good at a particular kind of role.

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kathygruver: Is a general with particular skills.

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Jason Mefford: he’s what he is.

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Jason Mefford: Someone with particularly.

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Jason Mefford: When when he tries to do a different role it’s not the same right because you look at it you’re like come on dude really know you know you’re the you’re the rough and tumble badass guy right.

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Jason Mefford: And so, when he tries to play, maybe a character that doesn’t really fit who we see him as yeah something just doesn’t click and so it’s the same thing when you’re a speaker right is.

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Jason Mefford: you’ve got to speak, the way that you are kind of authentically as well, and not try to fit yourself in some badass because that’s what people tell you, you have to do yeah.

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kathygruver: And so much of that is perception, because when I got my PhD I changed my headshot to very corporate looking.

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kathygruver: And I you know all of my stuff was very you know i’m going to be going into cooperation, so I must be there, I can’t use my bad language, and I must be very stilted in my speech, you know and somebody said.

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kathygruver: What the hell’s wrong with you like you’re hilarious and you’re slightly irreverent and.

00:20:15.180 –> 00:20:27.510
kathygruver: Like yeah you can do this very high up here in a suit to be corporates but that’s what you and they don’t want any but they want you to come in and do that thing, and I remember when I started putting the bread streaks in my hair my.

00:20:28.290 –> 00:20:32.190
kathygruver: Then husband now excellent and goes Oh well, that’s gonna look real professional and I went what.

00:20:32.400 –> 00:20:40.410
kathygruver: And he goes if you’re going into major corporations to get paid well and you’ve got red streaks in your hair what are they going to think, and I said, they are going to think that i’m a cool badass.

00:20:40.650 –> 00:20:42.690
kathygruver: And then i’m going to teach them stuff you know.

00:20:42.930 –> 00:20:54.930
kathygruver: I had to get out of that the perception of oh geez i’m up i’m a corporate speaker now I must do the certain know they can see who I am on my website, they can see that i’m goofy they can see that i’m fun that i’m that I, you know.

00:20:56.100 –> 00:21:01.800
kathygruver: that’s what they want that’s what they hired me for so you have to know get staying in your lane and just be true to yourself.

00:21:03.540 –> 00:21:08.790
Nicole Garrett: I have a question for you, then what when you made that that decision that conscious choice.

00:21:10.020 –> 00:21:13.950
Nicole Garrett: How, how did that land for you did it take a while or did you just sink right in.

00:21:14.010 –> 00:21:23.190
kathygruver: Oh, it was a syncretism because it was a misperception it was what I thought other people were going to how I thought other people are going to respond to what I was doing.

00:21:23.670 –> 00:21:32.610
kathygruver: And then I realized they don’t care because I have some friends who are speakers who have shaved do they have the side shaved they have all these crazy colors and they you know I think about.

00:21:34.470 –> 00:21:40.920
kathygruver: phil gerber check, who is on our ego is always worth the crazy glasses or Brian foreigner who’s from Pittsburgh everything’s black and yellow.

00:21:41.100 –> 00:21:47.010
kathygruver: Because the steelers and you know it’s like everybody has their thing that they like to do, and you have to be authentic to yourself.

00:21:47.520 –> 00:21:51.090
kathygruver: and be vulnerable I love that you said vulnerable because when I.

00:21:51.420 –> 00:22:04.320
kathygruver: Do my I mean you’re opening yourself up on stage and I tell so many personal stories some very are very emotionally weighted depending on the talk to them, giving and there’s been times, where i’ve teared up on stage, and it was like oh you can’t cry it’s like sure I can.

00:22:04.800 –> 00:22:11.040
kathygruver: Because I take the audience on a journey with me and if I start to tear up and I take that moment they’re all mesmerized.

00:22:13.080 –> 00:22:17.760
kathygruver: If it’s authentic I can’t manufacture that i’m gonna cry now you guys better show with me, you know.

00:22:20.910 –> 00:22:21.270
kathygruver: We go.

00:22:21.330 –> 00:22:23.430
kathygruver: yeah onions backstage.

00:22:24.900 –> 00:22:27.240
kathygruver: So how do you tap into that vulnerability and that honestly.

00:22:29.070 –> 00:22:30.840
Nicole Garrett: How do I personally or tap into.

00:22:30.900 –> 00:22:34.290
kathygruver: How to encourage, how do you get people there because that’s scary for.

00:22:35.400 –> 00:22:35.790
kathygruver: People.

00:22:35.970 –> 00:22:55.800
Nicole Garrett: It is scary for people, I really, really try to create a safe space as possible from the get go and it some people jump right into the work and are willing to let go and other people, it takes a while so it’s it’s a matter of.

00:22:56.820 –> 00:23:04.350
Nicole Garrett: You know I actually I think that’s where the Co active training collective Institute has really been helpful in working with people.

00:23:05.820 –> 00:23:13.950
Nicole Garrett: Because it is giving them it’s it’s holding that space for them to step into their vulnerability.

00:23:14.970 –> 00:23:15.570
Nicole Garrett: and

00:23:16.770 –> 00:23:18.840
Nicole Garrett: Trust that they’re not going to be judged by doing it.

00:23:20.220 –> 00:23:20.550
Nicole Garrett: Right.

00:23:20.940 –> 00:23:22.290
kathygruver: But when we mess up.

00:23:24.510 –> 00:23:25.350
Jason Mefford: we’re going to miss.

00:23:26.070 –> 00:23:26.550

00:23:28.380 –> 00:23:37.380
Nicole Garrett: What if you mess up what if it’s not perfect, what if you lean into the fear of not being perfect and do it anyway.

00:23:38.940 –> 00:23:41.280
Nicole Garrett: What if what might happen.

00:23:41.730 –> 00:23:42.660
kathygruver: I might die.

00:23:45.870 –> 00:23:46.560
Nicole Garrett: You might.

00:23:49.350 –> 00:23:52.080
Jason Mefford: i’ve never i’ve never been to a conference, though.

00:23:52.140 –> 00:23:57.480
Jason Mefford: Right, where they like they take the Horn, you know the the shepherd’s hook, and like.

00:23:57.720 –> 00:23:58.350
kathygruver: Fully off.

00:23:58.920 –> 00:24:00.930
Jason Mefford: Somebody off and then you hear a gunshot.

00:24:00.930 –> 00:24:01.140

00:24:05.010 –> 00:24:05.250
Jason Mefford: Now.

00:24:06.690 –> 00:24:17.880
Nicole Garrett: it’s a you know they’re there actually is a lot of work that I do with clients some clients that have that fear of not being good enough for being judged that’s you know the saboteurs work and.

00:24:18.630 –> 00:24:27.690
Nicole Garrett: Taking that Salvatore that’s in your head and putting a face and a body on it and sticking it in the room, and having a conversation with it.

00:24:28.140 –> 00:24:28.410
kathygruver: yeah.

00:24:28.470 –> 00:24:29.880
Nicole Garrett: and letting it know.

00:24:30.240 –> 00:24:35.940
Nicole Garrett: That it, it needs to be quiet, it needs to take a timeout because you’ve got work to do.

00:24:36.450 –> 00:24:37.890
kathygruver: Well, and here’s what i’ve noticed.

00:24:39.480 –> 00:24:44.220
kathygruver: When someone is trying really hard and being vulnerable and they screw it up.

00:24:45.240 –> 00:24:47.550
kathygruver: something happens, and you can see them suddenly going.

00:24:48.600 –> 00:24:53.370
kathygruver: uh uh the audience is so compassionate for that.

00:24:54.480 –> 00:24:56.250
kathygruver: When I see the audience go.

00:24:57.870 –> 00:24:59.400
kathygruver: Is when you’re an arrogant.

00:25:00.420 –> 00:25:10.170
kathygruver: overconfident prick about what you’re doing that’s when the audience goes i’m out, you can see them shut down when you are trying your best and something gets screwed up.

00:25:10.620 –> 00:25:25.590
kathygruver: The audience is right there with you going oh older i’m rooting for you, you got this you know so yeah failings, not the the the screwing up, so the problem it’s being overly confident unprepared and kind of being a jerk about it is when the audience rebels that’s my bad my observation.

00:25:27.240 –> 00:25:35.700
Nicole Garrett: yeah I said well and that ties me back to preparation it’s like well how are you preparing, are you doing your research are you getting to know your audience because.

00:25:37.200 –> 00:25:46.320
Nicole Garrett: I always assume that if people have that arrogance about them, it is masking it’s a mask for fear and it’s the fear of the of the judgment.

00:25:46.410 –> 00:25:49.320
Nicole Garrett: That they might receive from the audience but.

00:25:49.410 –> 00:25:53.430
Nicole Garrett: When you get when you spend time imagining your audience.

00:25:54.090 –> 00:26:05.940
Nicole Garrett: Just imagining them imagine what their life is like what side of the bed do they get out of in the morning, what newspapers might they read what is their social media influence where are their vulnerable points.

00:26:06.480 –> 00:26:19.320
Nicole Garrett: It helps the speaker, I think, have more empathy for the audience because I mean, at least for me I realized, you know what they’re human beings too and they’re having a human experience and they’re vulnerable also.

00:26:19.860 –> 00:26:22.410
Nicole Garrett: And if i’m willing to stand in my vulnerability.

00:26:23.790 –> 00:26:29.790
Nicole Garrett: Maybe it will create a space for them to stand in theirs, and then the world becomes a better place.

00:26:30.450 –> 00:26:39.600
Jason Mefford: yeah what I want to ask you a question, you know because we’ve been talking a lot of the analogy or kind of stuff that we’ve been going along is kind of platforms speaking.

00:26:39.930 –> 00:26:47.040
Jason Mefford: To right but I heard you mentioned something about working with executives and boards in space, I know all too well right having to.

00:26:47.040 –> 00:26:49.770
Jason Mefford: stand up in front of the boards going in every quarter.

00:26:50.670 –> 00:27:01.260
Jason Mefford: You know, and we were joking about you know you’re not going to die, but in that in that corporate political land mine environment, you might not.

00:27:01.770 –> 00:27:08.700
Jason Mefford: die, but you could lose your job, I mean there’s there’s a real chance if you go in you totally Fuck it up.

00:27:09.180 –> 00:27:23.490
Jason Mefford: You could lose your job right you could lose the confidence of the board the other executives and there’s a whole you know political dynamic to it, especially in a lot of those situations where people will.

00:27:24.840 –> 00:27:44.190
Jason Mefford: make certain comments or do other things, to try to undermine you so i’m interested to as far as you know, when you’re coaching executives on this are there may be some different things that you’re working with them on or to kind of consider that might be different than a platform speaker.

00:27:49.410 –> 00:27:50.250
Nicole Garrett: i’m i’m.

00:27:50.370 –> 00:27:52.650
Jason Mefford: Sending the answer the answer can be no.

00:27:54.930 –> 00:27:58.050
Nicole Garrett: No, I am I just want to protect confidentiality and make sure.

00:27:58.740 –> 00:27:59.700
Nicole Garrett: You and.

00:28:01.980 –> 00:28:02.490
Nicole Garrett: I.

00:28:06.060 –> 00:28:24.930
Nicole Garrett: This is not a direct yes or no, for me, this is about my client getting clearly aligned with their values their personal values that they honestly have and the values that they have that they uphold for this company.

00:28:25.950 –> 00:28:36.570
Nicole Garrett: And being clear about those and then coming forward with their message from that place of of leadership.

00:28:38.070 –> 00:28:40.050
Nicole Garrett: and trusting.

00:28:41.190 –> 00:28:55.800
Nicole Garrett: And yes, you are risking, but when we really know who we are and we come forward with courage and authenticity if that board is doesn’t agree with what’s happening there, maybe.

00:28:56.040 –> 00:28:56.790
Jason Mefford: it’s not a good fit.

00:28:56.880 –> 00:28:57.900
Nicole Garrett: it’s not a good set.

00:28:59.040 –> 00:29:00.240
Nicole Garrett: Of what are your thoughts about that.

00:29:01.020 –> 00:29:09.660
Jason Mefford: No, I I totally agree because, again, you know I look at it from a leadership perspective yeah I love, where you went with that because I hadn’t thought of that.

00:29:09.810 –> 00:29:14.400
Jason Mefford: directly but it’s it’s people with conviction.

00:29:15.690 –> 00:29:22.440
Jason Mefford: that are going to be heard and again, you know, like you said, your conviction may differ from other people in the organization, but.

00:29:23.610 –> 00:29:38.400
Jason Mefford: Honestly there’s a lot of weasels and weak people in very high positions in corporations that just are you know got the term yes man that that just kind of go along and that’s not leadership, you know that’s just being a.

00:29:39.450 –> 00:29:46.170
Jason Mefford: You know minute whiny little bitch puppet kind of thing you know and it’s like you know, having that.

00:29:47.340 –> 00:29:51.480
Jason Mefford: Because again a lot of the executives idea with sometimes they have to deliver difficult messages.

00:29:52.410 –> 00:30:05.220
Jason Mefford: To executives and and it doesn’t go over well, I mean I try to help them, you know, make it make it easier, but it is, I think what you said it’s that alignment with your values and your conviction and actually.

00:30:05.820 –> 00:30:16.950
Jason Mefford: Speaking The message I mean you can soften it a little bit, but sometimes we just got to tell them the hard truth, sometimes the messenger is the one who gets shot, but that comes with the territory.

00:30:17.070 –> 00:30:21.300
Nicole Garrett: You know yeah you just reminded me of a story, may I share it it’s quick.

00:30:21.480 –> 00:30:31.830
Nicole Garrett: yeah um my father, when he was alive, he was the director of the university in Illinois not not you by si you ever it’s phil and.

00:30:33.510 –> 00:30:43.470
Nicole Garrett: There I was young, but something that happened, where he was asked to by his bosses to go in front of the Board and lie.

00:30:44.670 –> 00:30:47.610
Nicole Garrett: And my father was a man of deep integrity.

00:30:48.900 –> 00:30:56.940
Nicole Garrett: And he felt a ton of pressure about it, and he decided that he would comply because he feared losing his job.

00:30:58.530 –> 00:31:09.360
Nicole Garrett: And he walked in to work if I remember the story accurately he walked he walked in he was walking up the steps of the building to go to this meeting, and he had a heart attack.

00:31:11.490 –> 00:31:16.410
Nicole Garrett: And he didn’t make it and he didn’t have to tell the story right didn’t have to tell the lie.

00:31:17.580 –> 00:31:27.600
Nicole Garrett: That to me affirms the importance of honoring your values in any type of presentation.

00:31:29.820 –> 00:31:31.680
kathygruver: yeah yeah with.

00:31:32.310 –> 00:31:33.870
Jason Mefford: A powerful story.

00:31:33.930 –> 00:31:40.650
kathygruver: Right yeah yeah it is yeah it’s also going to be our last one, because once again we’re at a.

00:31:40.650 –> 00:31:41.250
kathygruver: time I.

00:31:41.700 –> 00:31:42.180
kathygruver: See you.

00:31:42.420 –> 00:31:45.630
kathygruver: See, and there was vulnerability and telling that story, because I was started to Europe with you.

00:31:47.880 –> 00:31:48.960
Jason Mefford: Know it’s it’s I see.

00:31:48.960 –> 00:31:51.930
Jason Mefford: That was so much in corporate America and it’s.

00:31:53.760 –> 00:31:58.470
Jason Mefford: yeah we’ve we’ve got to stick to the values of the day yeah.

00:31:58.710 –> 00:32:10.140
kathygruver: And we’ve talked about that so much Jason I we’ve done episodes on values we’ve talked about our values we you know it’s it’s huge that that informs everything that informs everything, this has been such a great conversation Nicole you’re one of my favorite people.

00:32:10.290 –> 00:32:14.760
Nicole Garrett: you’re one of my favorite people and Jason i’m so glad to have met you you’re one of my new favorite people.

00:32:17.430 –> 00:32:21.690
kathygruver: cool all right, Nicole tell people where they can reach you to websites anything you have that you want.

00:32:21.690 –> 00:32:24.270
Nicole Garrett: Yes, my website is my.

00:32:24.270 –> 00:32:35.280
Nicole Garrett: business is called present my website is www dot present dot llc and you can reach me at Nicole at present llc.

00:32:36.390 –> 00:32:37.020
kathygruver: yeah.

00:32:37.080 –> 00:32:42.960
Nicole Garrett: And I live in Jackson hole so if you’re ever out in Jackson hole just look me up take your hiking.

00:32:43.350 –> 00:32:44.880
kathygruver: Oh i’m there absolutely.

00:32:44.940 –> 00:32:45.480
Nicole Garrett: Come on.

00:32:45.780 –> 00:32:53.490
kathygruver: yeah i’m ready i’m ready i’m ready excellent Oh, this has been so much fun Thank you so much for being here, I am Kathy gruver I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

00:32:53.670 –> 00:33:03.450
Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason method, I can be reached at Jason method calm so go out have a great rest of your week and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast see ya.

00:33:03.840 –> 00:33:04.230

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