As a follow up to the episode with Mike Mandel when we discussed ego state therapy, we jump into how you can use the InnerActive Cards mentioned in that episode and how the cards can be used in therapy and self-coaching sessions.

If the scared little child ego shows up when you need to be the confident adults, disaster awaits. Learn how you can use these tools with yourself or clients to help identify work through limiting beliefs and blocks caused when the wrong ego state shows up.

Plus, playing cards is fun 🙂

To learn more about the InnerActive Cards mentioned in this episode, and to purchase your very own deck, visit: or

The Fire and Earth Podcast gives you practical advice and keys to unlocking your potential in life and business, hosted by Dr. Kathy Gruver ( and Jason Mefford ( Real, raw and unscripted.

#fireandearthpodcast #ego #egostates #inneractivecards #potential #therapy


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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason method.

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Kathy Gruver: And I am Kathy gruver and we are going to be talking today about ego states, and this is something I’m really excited about. If you watched Mike Mandela’s episode. He actually started to introduce this concept of the ego states and was talking about these cards.

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Kathy Gruver: And how you bring states to the executive

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Kathy Gruver: Well, we’re going to do a little deeper dive into that because I got the cards I got. The books.

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Kathy Gruver: Actually in my Capricorn way actually enrolled in the course to become a resource therapist because resonated so well with me. So I’ve worked with this with a couple clients. I’ve worked with some stuff on myself.

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Kathy Gruver: With all of this. So we’re going to talk today about how you can use these cards and this whole concept of ego states to improve your life and make yourself.

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Jason Mefford: What I think is good because yeah when Mike was talking, he

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Jason Mefford: Referred to these interactive cards. So we both ended up going out and getting him and, you know, beautiful pictures.

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Jason Mefford: First off, right. But this this whole idea of egos states and hopefully again if you didn’t listen to Mike’s podcast episode, go back and listen to that.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, because the man is just freaking amazing okay but you know there’s a lot of these times, where will react or a certain ego state will show up. That’s not really appropriate you know like the little kid shows up and it’s like

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Jason Mefford: Damn it, I got to be an adult right now.

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Jason Mefford: So talking a little bit more, you know how to actually use this kind of technique or think about it so that we can have more of the the right or apropos. You know, ego state showing up at the right time, so that we’re not having these issues in our relationships and

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Jason Mefford: In our performance in general.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, and it’s really fascinating because I went through these cards and what they recommend and there’s, you know, any number of, you know, just these pictures are great. And what’s fabulous about them is there. There’s no words on it. It doesn’t say like enforcer. It doesn’t say

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Kathy Gruver: What do you call that, you know, but but there’s

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Jason Mefford: Others.

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Kathy Gruver: Right. It doesn’t say athlete, but it also doesn’t say

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Kathy Gruver: Obsessed with exercise to escape, but I mean this could mean anything to anybody. This, I know you’re running, you were talking about doing a marathon, this could just be you and your healthy state of running

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Kathy Gruver: Or I have a client who is doing like hundred mile races.

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Kathy Gruver: And I have to question what are you running from or what are you running towards you know so all of these cards in some way can have a positive or negative aspect to them.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s however you interpreted in that time. And I had pulled cards for myself and then a friend of mine did it and cards that I deemed

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Kathy Gruver: slightly negative or not serving me she felt were positive in her life. So this is a very customizable thing. So what I recommend. I recommend getting these cards I got mine off Amazon.

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Kathy Gruver: Did you get your direct from the company that Mike recommended or

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Jason Mefford: You know what I did, but actually it’s a Canadian company and I guess, actually. The cards are manufactured here in the US.

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Jason Mefford: So I paid a little bit more for them and they still ship them anyway. But you can you can buy them will try to put a link in the show notes for it if you’re interested.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, I think they were I don’t know 20 or 25 bucks. I mean, they’re they’re beautiful art pieces if nothing else to

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Jason Mefford: They really like you said, because they’re just a picture. It can mean different things to each person. In fact, it’ll probably mean different things to you at different times because

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Jason Mefford: These cards are just to used as a way to kind of trigger or bring up kind of some of the stuff that you need to be thinking about

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Jason Mefford: And kind of and kind of

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Jason Mefford: Deal with

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Kathy Gruver: At that particular

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Jason Mefford: Point in time. Right. So there’s no

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Jason Mefford: You know, it’s not like they’re magic cards, if you will. They’re kind of magical and what they do but it’s it’s more about, you know, again, what we need to hear at that time and what

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Kathy Gruver: We need to work through

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Jason Mefford: It’s a tool to help you do that.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely, absolutely. So I seriously do recommend getting a deck of these cards. It’s a $20 investment and it’s really just such an insightful thing. And since here on the fire and earth podcast we were trying to

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Kathy Gruver: Unlock your potential. This is one of the ways to do that 20 bucks, really. Come on, we can do that. It’s like

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Kathy Gruver: What two days of coffee from Starbucks. So what I did and what was recommended through the course that I’m in, and the

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Kathy Gruver: Website that goes along with the cards is just flip through the cards and just pick what resonates with you. That was the first thing I’d recommend that do so if it doesn’t

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Kathy Gruver: Jazz you in some way and you don’t even have to know why.

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Kathy Gruver: Because when I did this with a friend. She pulled one of the cards. And she goes, I don’t know what this card means, I don’t know, have any idea what it is, to me, but it just it appeals to me like great

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Kathy Gruver: And then I kind of set them out of what are the positive cards and what are the negative cards and a couple of the negative cards.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, things like that, you know, I was horribly bullied as a child. We were talking online. So there’s still times that this little this little humiliated, kid.

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Kathy Gruver: Comes out in me and then the scared kid of am I gonna get yelled at and I do something wrong as a kid, I was always afraid of doing something wrong. Even if I hadn’t done anything wrong before, like if the principal would walk into the room.

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Kathy Gruver: Was. Should I do something wrong.

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Kathy Gruver: Still to this day. How many of you, if there’s a cop following you.

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Jason Mefford: Oh, yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: You can be doing the spiel of you wonder if you did something wrong. Okay, so that’s one of my little my little hurt kids. And then there’s the little abandoned kid because I lost a parent young so

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Kathy Gruver: You know, these are some of the, the negative or the hurt personality types of me now, then we get something like

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Kathy Gruver: That that’s my inner superhero that if that little kid comes up, I can call him my inner superhero to help or the nurturing mother, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: I’m not a mother, but I certainly have the ability to nurture myself and nurture those people around me. So once you pick those cards that resonate with you what I did is I picked ones that I’ve been positive and negative. And then I went through and figured out

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Kathy Gruver: If there are any in conflict and this is a huge thing especially in productivity because Jason I know we’ve always had that

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Kathy Gruver: Night where you’re like, I really just want to sit down and watch a movie. And there’s another part of you. It’s like, dude, you didn’t do any work today you’ve got

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Kathy Gruver: An email and you’ve got to get that speaking updated. You know, there’s two healthy states work in play.

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Kathy Gruver: But they’re in conflict with each other. So what do we do about that, you know, at this point, that’s when you can kind of negotiate between those two states and realize they both have purpose. They both have value.

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Kathy Gruver: And one of the things we’re actually doing therapy with this is we named the states.

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Jason Mefford: Well, so let’s let’s kind of take take that

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Jason Mefford: A little bit deeper. Because again, I mean that’s something you felt

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Jason Mefford: I felt, I’m sure, pretty much everybody listening at some point in our

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Kathy Gruver: Life.

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Jason Mefford: We felt that way. Yep, where it’s like, I’m just done. I’m so tired. You know, I don’t feel like doing that, but maybe you’ve made a commitment to yourself.

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Jason Mefford: Or somebody else that you’re going to have

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Jason Mefford: Something done by a certain time sometimes those are kind of false false deadlines or self imposed deadlines that that are not really that important.

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Jason Mefford: Because I know I find myself expecting that I can get way more done any given day, or any given week than I actually get done.

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Jason Mefford: So part of its I needed to have a little bit more grace with myself and realize that, you know, like you said, hey, if that website doesn’t go up for another month it’s not that big a deal.

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Jason Mefford: Right. It’ll be okay. So, you know, as I was going to say so. So when we get in this kind of situation, how do, how do we then start looking at or kind of thinking about these, these two states that are kind of in conflict.

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Jason Mefford: And start kind of, you know, consciously working our way through this to try to figure out why. Why are we reacting this way. And what should we do about it.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, so if you have to healthy states in conflict. So if you’ve got the work state that is like, Come on, you have to get this stuff done.

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Kathy Gruver: My inner Capricorn, which I’m glad she’s there. She keeps me on task. The inner Capricorn is fabulous. However, I also have

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Kathy Gruver: These states that want to play that want to go to dance class that want to go do trapeze that wants it down and just read or one of edge out with a glass of wine on the on the TV.

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Kathy Gruver: You have to recognize that both those states have value. Those are two healthy states, we have to work. We have to rest and as you and I’ve talked about, you know, it’s just as important to decent rate as it is to concentrate. So, which

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Kathy Gruver: You know, can you negotiate that. Now, if someone came to my office because I actually did this yesterday with a woman. We sat the two states down

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Kathy Gruver: I address the states by name work. Do you understand, you know, what do you need. Well, we have to get stuff done, because we have to keep our clients because we have to make money.

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Kathy Gruver: Great. That’s a value. What do you think about play oh well play is lazy and play doesn’t want to have anything to play keeps me from doing my work. Okay.

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Kathy Gruver: Play. Did you hear what work just said yeah what what work doesn’t understand is, if we don’t have time to play. I’m not going to be as productive.

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Kathy Gruver: So if we can work out that maybe for an hour a day I get to play and rest then work is going to be more productive.

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Kathy Gruver: Then you go back work. How do you feel about that. Yeah. I understand what she’s saying. And I think that’s something we can work out. You give them a name and you negotiate that now because I need another person to do that because I definitely

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Jason Mefford: Well, or, you know, talking to yourself. Right. I mean, I’ve heard that, like with self coaching is you, you know, it’s like playing chess by yourself. Right. You move

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Jason Mefford: You move chairs are doing

00:09:35.670 –> 00:09:39.330
Jason Mefford: It actually moves but you actually move, you know,

00:09:39.570 –> 00:09:49.320
Jason Mefford: Put, put two chairs down and you talk from the one person, then you move over to the other chair you talk from the other person so so as you as you were doing that with this client was

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Jason Mefford: Were you kind of leaving that direction as far as saying what they were saying, or she was actually then saying, you know,

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Jason Mefford: Talk from work.

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Jason Mefford: Work, you just heard what play said

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Jason Mefford: That work. How would you respond to what

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Jason Mefford: Play. So, so you’re just kind of facilitating

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Kathy Gruver: Exactly.

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Jason Mefford: That discussion between the two ego states.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep, exactly. And that’s what a resource therapist does is it will facilitate they will facilitate that conversation.

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Kathy Gruver: And also, though, when you recognize that you have these states. So, you know, finding those two states and conflict and finding a resolution for that that’s that’s

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Kathy Gruver: Probably one of the easier things to do, because those are healthy states, you have to have work, you have to have play. However, one of the things I realized is when

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Kathy Gruver: I get to enter Capricorn. You know, when my very like working teaching when that state gets out of hand. It leads to. Oh, now we’re getting a little more strict

00:10:48.150 –> 00:10:57.300
Kathy Gruver: Oh, now we’re forgetting. People have emotions and we’re so locked in work. Oh, now we’re ignoring everything around us. And we’ve gotten into a work state where I’m just lost in that

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Kathy Gruver: hamster wheel and there’s actually a hamster will start to work state.

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Kathy Gruver: And and I can see the cards progress from this positive thing to this negative thing we talked about that to where it’s like this girl handles everything

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Kathy Gruver: I get everything done my to do list is fixed, until one thing goes awry and then this happens, and I go crazy for a second.

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Kathy Gruver: And that anxiety comes over. So how do you stop that. And I think that’s, you know, the negotiating between two states, I think we probably can do a little easier. Is that what happens when a state goes so off the rails, it becomes so negative

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Kathy Gruver: And that’s sometimes a little harder to rein in and you might need help with that one either a friend or a colleague or somebody that can be like, dude, you’re

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Kathy Gruver: Crazy gap corns out, you know,

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Jason Mefford: Well, because we’ve already kind of progress through those different states right as far as feeling to where we are.

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Jason Mefford: And if we can catch herself, maybe sooner. I mean, I love that example of where you’re saying, okay, you know, here’s the serious work person. But if I

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Jason Mefford: If I focus too much on that then I become this person and this person and this person and this person until all of a sudden, like you said, I’m ignoring everybody work is the only thing that’s important.

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Jason Mefford: You know I’m steam rolling over anybody who gets in my way because I’m so focused on what I’m gonna do that come hell or

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Jason Mefford: High Water right I’m getting I’m getting her done

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Jason Mefford: Getting her none. Right.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep. And then where it leads to is this

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Kathy Gruver: This is my inner hedonist

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, who will then go fuck it all and I’ll sit on the couch and I will justify an entire night of wine because I deserve it, because I worked so hard.

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Kathy Gruver: So this can be fun. This is the let’s go party. Let’s have a beach party and let’s have a house party, but this can also be the wake up the next morning completely hung over with drug paraphernalia all around you. Not me.

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Kathy Gruver: But people do that.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, they take himself dream, and then they have to respond in that extreme rather than taking that let me just read for 15 minutes, you know, so it is you’re right, it’s about an awareness of course

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Kathy Gruver: It’s about awareness and awareness of knowing which data is executive and bringing the right state forward at the right time.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, so maybe let’s

00:13:08.220 –> 00:13:10.590
Jason Mefford: Let’s just touch on that again because Mike did talk about

00:13:10.590 –> 00:13:26.910
Jason Mefford: That but for those maybe that haven’t heard it already. Because I mean, effectively in this you know resource therapy kind of ideas that they’re in. And this goes back to a lot of other things as well, right, that we we are an age that we are

00:13:27.690 –> 00:13:41.070
Jason Mefford: But we are a makeup of all of the ages and experiences that we have been before. So we carry all of that stuff with us, that’s why sometimes things trigger us. We go back to being that eight year old, you know,

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Jason Mefford: You know left alone or or picked on.

00:13:46.410 –> 00:13:48.360
Jason Mefford: You know, bullying of that. Yeah, right.

00:13:48.390 –> 00:13:56.490
Jason Mefford: We go. We go back to that that sad, kid. And what happens is that sad kid becomes executive

00:13:57.090 –> 00:14:12.630
Jason Mefford: Or what it means is that they’ve kind of moved from the background to being what we are primarily doing and who we are primarily be right. There’s that being that we were talking about before, right and and sometimes that’s okay.

00:14:13.950 –> 00:14:19.980
Jason Mefford: Depending on the ego state. But when you know when the hurt and and kind of the collected Kid shows up.

00:14:20.280 –> 00:14:22.740
Jason Mefford: We’re probably going to make some decisions and

00:14:22.740 –> 00:14:27.720
Jason Mefford: Do things because we’re being that little kid again.

00:14:28.140 –> 00:14:28.530
Kathy Gruver: Right.

00:14:29.040 –> 00:14:39.150
Jason Mefford: And sometimes that’s okay, but most of the time we’re adults. So we have to be in that adult state or find one of those ego states as an adult.

00:14:39.600 –> 00:14:49.890
Jason Mefford: That we’re going to make executive. So that’s what it means when we’re saying that, you know, make that executive is that’s the ego state that you’re going from currently. That’s the one you’re

00:14:49.890 –> 00:15:06.120
Jason Mefford: Stepping into that you’re actually making the decisions from right and it even goes back. I mean, I heard one of the other things I heard was, you know, if think about how the person you want to be would do what you’re about to do.

00:15:07.170 –> 00:15:18.360
Jason Mefford: It’s that same idea, right, is if if we’re about to do something which ego state. Do we need to have executive to be that person. Yep.

00:15:18.510 –> 00:15:21.690
Kathy Gruver: Absolutely. Well, and it’s interesting because having that

00:15:22.110 –> 00:15:39.690
Kathy Gruver: A state that’s vacated which is this hurt state. You can be vetted and fear Veda and rejection baited and confusion, so that this little kid is faded and rejection. So, and this is one of my cards. So if I’m feeling rejected. I guess I had a conversation with a guy dating last night that

00:15:40.800 –> 00:15:54.060
Kathy Gruver: He wants less time that I want, which is a valid thing we’re both adults, we have things to do. We have lives to handle. But even though that’s a completely rational thing and my, you know, my very rational, you know,

00:15:54.840 –> 00:16:08.400
Kathy Gruver: Kept. This is the healthy side. My Capricorn goes well, of course, we don’t want to spend every waking moment with each other. But this went. Why don’t you want to spend every waking moment with either rejecting me my major gonna leave and I had to go dude bring in your inner adult

00:16:08.610 –> 00:16:13.320
Kathy Gruver: You’re okay. You know, so, but it’s like I have awareness of these states and I can feel them shifting

00:16:14.070 –> 00:16:18.660
Kathy Gruver: And you see the so often when you go home for the holidays.

00:16:19.320 –> 00:16:25.560
Kathy Gruver: Yes, don’t you revert back to a 13 year old or don’t you have siblings treat you like you’re still 10 it

00:16:27.180 –> 00:16:33.480
Kathy Gruver: And there’s a there’s a whole play I lose the love this play. I don’t remember what it’s called but I was thinking about when I started working with this.

00:16:33.690 –> 00:16:42.390
Kathy Gruver: If this couples dating, they’ve been together for a while, and she finally says, Do you want to come home to meet my parents or Christmas or the guys like absolutely and

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Kathy Gruver: This its current closes Kurt opens, it’s now the living room with the parents and the parents are sitting there having dinner there decorating the tree or something and a couple walks in and it’s the same guy, but it’s a little girl.

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Kathy Gruver: And every time the scene is with the parents. It’s a little girl.

00:17:00.690 –> 00:17:14.400
Kathy Gruver: And the grown man is like what just happened. And it was so cool because it was this very physical illustration of she reverted back to me this little kid, you know, I’ve seen people do that. Like they talk like a perfect adult then they get around the parents are like,

00:17:16.110 –> 00:17:22.710
Kathy Gruver: Whoa. What did you just because you’re no longer 40 or a 13 year old now. So I’m executive

00:17:22.860 –> 00:17:26.070
Jason Mefford: Yeah. And it’s interesting because we either kind of choose to do that.

00:17:26.910 –> 00:17:29.250
Jason Mefford: Right I going, Oh, daddy, you know, and acting like

00:17:29.280 –> 00:17:33.840
Jason Mefford: A little eight year old girl again or sometimes the other person makes us feel that way.

00:17:34.140 –> 00:17:34.710
Kathy Gruver: Yep.

00:17:34.770 –> 00:17:40.230
Jason Mefford: You know, it’s like it’s like my older my older siblings. I mean, again, we’re grown ass adults. Right.

00:17:41.310 –> 00:17:57.990
Jason Mefford: You know, and then I mean my oldest brother juice. He’s well he’s 60 something or other. Right. Late 60s now and and you know he he’s an old man in comparison, right, like when we were kids, we would have thought that this man that was in his late 60s.

00:17:57.990 –> 00:17:58.650
Kathy Gruver: Is just like

00:17:58.740 –> 00:18:08.820
Jason Mefford: Ancient right but again when I get around him. He treats me like I’m that little five year old kid again right in a in a couple of my siblings do that so

00:18:10.050 –> 00:18:14.850
Jason Mefford: It’s and it’s not that I want to show up that way, necessarily, but that’s how I get treated.

00:18:15.030 –> 00:18:16.230
Kathy Gruver: And obviously, when I

00:18:17.310 –> 00:18:25.530
Jason Mefford: When I start to get treated that way, which he goes state’s going to jump in that little five year old kid is going to want to

00:18:25.530 –> 00:18:30.990
Jason Mefford: Kind of jump in again because we’re used to responding that way. Right.

00:18:31.500 –> 00:18:32.160

00:18:34.530 –> 00:18:38.580
Kathy Gruver: Ice cream comes in loving you probably don’t have it, but you have some version of ice queen.

00:18:39.330 –> 00:18:48.300
Kathy Gruver: So the protection mechanism is if I start to feel like this, or start to feel rejected. I’m like, Okay, great. And I

00:18:49.110 –> 00:18:59.310
Kathy Gruver: completely shut down no motion at all because that emotion hurts. So rather than letting hurt little kid be out and have a conversation around that it’s covered up with ice queen.

00:18:59.760 –> 00:19:14.190
Kathy Gruver: Or it’s covered up with hedonist or it’s so this is the other way. These egos states work is there’s a state that comes forward to protect that five year old kid. So if your brother always bullied you and you don’t want that anymore. It might come up with some other state that

00:19:17.100 –> 00:19:25.650
Kathy Gruver: Encompasses that and then healthy or unhealthy way. So that was one of my problems, you know, in a couple relationships is if I started to feel hurt or threatened, I would

00:19:26.160 –> 00:19:30.270
Kathy Gruver: Okay, shut down. I’m going to work. I’m going to ignore you.

00:19:30.540 –> 00:19:39.450
Kathy Gruver: Everything I’m going to leave the house because I want to get away, and I would be distracted with work and you know that way. You didn’t have to focus on that thing. So that’s one of the ways to cover up that hurt to cover up that beta state.

00:19:39.780 –> 00:19:43.230
Kathy Gruver: So that’s another option two is covering it up with another unhealthy state.

00:19:44.550 –> 00:19:45.480
Kathy Gruver: People have addiction.

00:19:46.410 –> 00:19:57.210
Jason Mefford: Well, it is. I mean, because that’s, that’s, again, that’s how they’re they’re choosing to cope with it. They’re using that hedonism, you know, to kind of cope with or get away from those feelings as opposed to actually feeling it.

00:19:57.630 –> 00:19:58.260
Kathy Gruver: Yep, just

00:19:58.320 –> 00:20:06.510
Jason Mefford: In pushing through that that feeling. Right. And again, this is why you know from a therapy perspective, you know, whether it’s hypnotherapy and

00:20:06.510 –> 00:20:07.170
Kathy Gruver: NLP

00:20:07.590 –> 00:20:20.580
Jason Mefford: You know resource therapy, whatever you happen to us it’s helping us to try to unblock those traumas that we have so that instead of, you know, switching to hedonism.

00:20:21.000 –> 00:20:29.070
Jason Mefford: And sticking a needle in your arm or or doing whatever that we’re actually dealing with that pain or trauma, we’re working through it.

00:20:29.580 –> 00:20:31.470
Jason Mefford: We’re having those discussions.

00:20:31.500 –> 00:20:36.390
Jason Mefford: Right of, well, why do you feel this way. Well, I feel this way. Because of this, oh well you

00:20:36.630 –> 00:20:42.180
Jason Mefford: Did it right and going back and forth and and actually pushed through feel those emotions, but

00:20:42.180 –> 00:20:54.330
Jason Mefford: Push through them so that that you know neglected, you know, left dejected little kid, whatever it happens to be doesn’t need to keep showing up because

00:20:54.330 –> 00:20:57.150
Jason Mefford: You’ve already worked through that and

00:20:58.050 –> 00:21:00.990
Kathy Gruver: Let’s just say, here’s one of the interesting things about that is

00:21:01.650 –> 00:21:11.250
Kathy Gruver: In talk therapy when I show up to talk therapy, you get my normal intellectually talking about everything else state. I can tell you all about my hurt little kid.

00:21:12.030 –> 00:21:18.330
Kathy Gruver: If that state is not executive if that little kid isn’t the one talking, it’s not going to get fixed.

00:21:19.080 –> 00:21:24.900
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, this is what’s cool about resource therapy. So, of course, this is like I’m doing it right now as I’m like everybody should be doing this.

00:21:25.890 –> 00:21:30.600
Kathy Gruver: You have to bring that state to the executive, so I would have to bring up my hurt little rejected kid.

00:21:30.990 –> 00:21:38.730
Kathy Gruver: And the resource therapist would work with that state because if another state is talking about. That’s like me talking about your need for therapy.

00:21:39.390 –> 00:21:47.010
Kathy Gruver: Unless we actually get you in the room, nothing’s going to change. So one of the things we do in resource therapy is we we get to that.

00:21:47.940 –> 00:21:50.760
Kathy Gruver: We bring that state to the executive, so I would

00:21:51.270 –> 00:22:03.120
Kathy Gruver: Feel those feelings from last night of feeling that rejection. Oh god, I do. I could actually bring it up. I can feel it right here. And then you radiate that radiate that radiate that until you’re in it and then you look back and go

00:22:03.570 –> 00:22:12.060
Kathy Gruver: Okay so dip your feet and that feeling. How old are those feet and it typically takes you back to childhood and you’re like other kind of eight years old, are you inside or outside. Oh, I’m inside

00:22:12.450 –> 00:22:17.850
Kathy Gruver: Well, are you by yourself or with other people. Well, my mom is there and she said she has enough time to play with me or whatever it is.

00:22:18.210 –> 00:22:25.470
Kathy Gruver: And then you can heal that from back there and then you don’t need to cover it up. And then you also want to bring the state for that’s been protecting them.

00:22:25.770 –> 00:22:40.380
Kathy Gruver: Hey Jester, I know you’ve been protecting that little kid with humor and you’re the client, you were the class clown and you’re now you you get very Chandler from friends, you know, covering up emotions with humor, or you cover motions with food, whereas Mike’s happy peg. I love that card.

00:22:42.240 –> 00:22:45.120
Kathy Gruver: But then you want to. There was happy pig.

00:22:45.600 –> 00:22:46.050
Jason Mefford: Mm hmm.

00:22:46.470 –> 00:22:55.500
Kathy Gruver: You know, let’s eat our emotions, feelings are feelings, you know, that kind of thing. But you do want to thank that state for helping and then you give them a new job.

00:22:56.070 –> 00:23:02.370
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, serve a purpose. So I mean it’s. This is why I love this because it actually gets to the root of the problem and solve these issues.

00:23:03.150 –> 00:23:08.370
Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s why some of the things that I’ve gone through, you know personally with that you know like that where

00:23:08.850 –> 00:23:21.600
Jason Mefford: Where you you get that ego state to kind of show back up, you know, whether it’s hip no NLP whatever happens to be right and and that feeling or that that release.

00:23:22.380 –> 00:23:30.960
Jason Mefford: That kind of happens. Right. I mean, I remember one of the sessions that I was going through and it was about, you know, I was probably I must have been a

00:23:31.680 –> 00:23:32.490
Jason Mefford: Maybe nine

00:23:32.550 –> 00:23:48.360
Jason Mefford: Years old right and and again kind of talking to that little kid and and that whole idea of, you know, nine year old Jason, you know, is that really what it means. No, you know, do you have to keep feeling that way.

00:23:48.510 –> 00:23:56.970
Jason Mefford: No right and and and just this kind of release that ends up happening that it’s it’s it’s kind of weird.

00:23:57.630 –> 00:23:58.770
Jason Mefford: But it actually

00:23:58.800 –> 00:24:00.150
Jason Mefford: It actually happens.

00:24:00.450 –> 00:24:01.950
Jason Mefford: Right, like that where

00:24:02.370 –> 00:24:06.780
Jason Mefford: You know, maybe it takes more than one time. Sometimes, you know, boom, first time you’re done.

00:24:07.290 –> 00:24:11.820
Jason Mefford: Depends on kind of how deep seated or vacated. Some of these traumas actually are.

00:24:11.910 –> 00:24:21.450
Jason Mefford: Absolutely right. But, you know, one and one of the things that that you brought up and even in your example right there when you were thinking back to your discussion last night.

00:24:22.170 –> 00:24:34.080
Jason Mefford: You started to feel it right so maybe let’s talk just a little bit for people to have you know how to start feeling or being emotionally intelligent

00:24:34.710 –> 00:24:37.110
Jason Mefford: Through the feelings that we’re having

00:24:37.170 –> 00:24:46.800
Jason Mefford: And how that might relate back to some of these ego state so that we know will hold it. Just a minute, you know, nine year old Jason’s trying to come back out. Why is trying to do that.

00:24:47.370 –> 00:24:49.830
Jason Mefford: And how we kind of work through that.

00:24:52.230 –> 00:25:05.910
Jason Mefford: In the moment. Okay. Because a lot of times we don’t have the ability to sit down and do some of that self coaching or other stuff, you know, it’s like, hey, Kathy, you know, timeout. I need to go take

00:25:06.120 –> 00:25:08.730
Jason Mefford: You know 20 minutes and talk to myself, and then we’ll come back and

00:25:10.860 –> 00:25:14.190
Jason Mefford: You know, sometimes you sometimes you can. It depends on the other person and how

00:25:14.220 –> 00:25:15.420
Jason Mefford: How understanding, they are

00:25:15.630 –> 00:25:15.900
Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

00:25:15.960 –> 00:25:20.070
Jason Mefford: But how do we how do we, kind of, you know, bandaid it

00:25:20.280 –> 00:25:21.930
Jason Mefford: In the situation so we

00:25:21.930 –> 00:25:23.310
Jason Mefford: Don’t make things worse.

00:25:23.400 –> 00:25:25.890
Jason Mefford: Yep. But then again, realize and

00:25:25.890 –> 00:25:28.860
Jason Mefford: consciously know I gotta go back and take care of the ship.

00:25:29.100 –> 00:25:37.230
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I’ll give you the perfect example. So, and we talked about this before. So my dad died as I was driving to do a TED talk.

00:25:39.150 –> 00:25:48.180
Kathy Gruver: So what ego State wanted to be forward for me, I would a sob like a little kid. I just lost my daddy. Oh my god. My best friend is dead. Holy ship. Nope.

00:25:49.980 –> 00:25:51.510
Jason Mefford: Yeah, ice cream, show up.

00:25:52.080 –> 00:26:05.910
Kathy Gruver: She had to. There was no way I was able to do that talk if she didn’t show up. The second I got off stage I lost my shit backstage. I mean, like, I thank you hand the mic. I was gone on the floor. She was like,

00:26:07.110 –> 00:26:15.900
Kathy Gruver: Kathy needs help. I didn’t call her content. I kind of did call her consciously because as I was talking to people about it on the phone. I talked to my ex husband and

00:26:16.230 –> 00:26:25.080
Kathy Gruver: The guys did Baba, Baba. I was very specific of. Okay, I just need to power through this and I can’t think about that. I was very unconsciously, but

00:26:25.380 –> 00:26:38.370
Kathy Gruver: Consciously calling forward Capricorn is clean to hell, the situation for me now that I have knowledge of these ego states like last night as I was starting to feel that little scared, kid. And I wanted to get clingy to him.

00:26:39.360 –> 00:26:52.800
Kathy Gruver: Which would have completely backfired. Because when someone says, Let’s have some more space. The last thing you want to do is clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, it’s what we tend to do so I specifically in that moment, said, Where is my inner nurturing adult

00:26:54.150 –> 00:26:58.620
Kathy Gruver: I don’t need him to comfort me I have to be able to self soothe and comfort myself and

00:26:58.860 –> 00:27:09.990
Kathy Gruver: If I didn’t have knowledge of these states ahead of time. And this is why I think it’s so fun to lay out these cards and know what your state’s. Get to know your state’s name them. I have an entire chart.

00:27:10.350 –> 00:27:21.270
Kathy Gruver: Of my states and what they do and how to call them up. Sometimes you can call them up with an anchor. Sometimes you can call them up with music. Use it totally gets me to shift state.

00:27:22.170 –> 00:27:29.310
Kathy Gruver: Certain movies. Don’t you feel empowered like after watching certain movies or listening to certain music and when I was heading for my tax audit.

00:27:29.820 –> 00:27:43.080
Kathy Gruver: On the way to the tax audit I blared Nine Inch Nails the entire way because that gets me into this tough girl, very straightforward no nonsense. Fuck you. We’re doing this kind of me. You can just like

00:27:44.190 –> 00:27:44.400
Kathy Gruver: As

00:27:45.480 –> 00:27:47.460
Jason Mefford: A refugee, you don’t know who you’re getting

00:27:47.820 –> 00:27:50.520
Kathy Gruver: Because like I don’t want this to show up to my tax on it.

00:27:50.970 –> 00:28:00.330
Kathy Gruver: Mm hmm. Oh my god. Okay, well, you know, I don’t know how much money I made last year and you know it’s like we don’t want that coming for I don’t want that on stage. I play on stage, but I don’t want it to be the frivolous little kid.

00:28:00.600 –> 00:28:11.790
Kathy Gruver: So, you know, it’s like we do have a choice, and we can, once we know those states we can call them up, bring them executive and there are ways to do that. There’s ways to trigger that into action. Yeah. It was a long explanation. Sorry.

00:28:12.360 –> 00:28:18.660
Jason Mefford: No, no, no, it’s great because actually brought up a couple of points to that that I just wanted to explain a little bit because I’m not sure.

00:28:19.260 –> 00:28:23.640
Jason Mefford: Everybody understands what these mean but these are some practical tips that you can actually

00:28:24.150 –> 00:28:30.990
Jason Mefford: Do. So effectively what you’re saying. Again, as you, you start to realize some of the different ego states that you have

00:28:31.920 –> 00:28:40.890
Jason Mefford: And when something pops up. It’s almost like, All right. Hey ice queen Kathy you’re needed on stage right now, you know, where’s my ice queen.

00:28:41.460 –> 00:28:50.580
Jason Mefford: And and you can do things to try to help that ego state come forward, you talked about anchoring anchoring, you know, again, it’s it’s it’s doing

00:28:51.300 –> 00:29:02.820
Jason Mefford: Certain things that anchor you in a feeling, it can be, you know, holding you know two fingers together, it can be closing your eyes and saying a word. It can be doing emotion like yes

00:29:02.850 –> 00:29:19.170
Jason Mefford: You know, it can be putting on a hat or doing something that reminds you of, you know, hey, this is what ice queen Kathy does right and it helps call her out.

00:29:19.770 –> 00:29:29.760
Jason Mefford: At the time that she’s needed and then again you know as we do that. It’s like, you know, it’s almost like we’re the director of our life. If you want to think about this. Right. And you’ve

00:29:29.760 –> 00:29:37.860
Jason Mefford: Got all of these different actors that can come out on the stage and you need to help decide which one needs to show up at which point

00:29:38.190 –> 00:29:48.030
Jason Mefford: But then make a note to yourself. Right. You know, again, like, like you did Kathy, it was you know my dad just died. Holy shit. I’ve got this. I’m on my way to the speech.

00:29:49.500 –> 00:30:04.530
Jason Mefford: You know, ice queen. You got to show up. But note to self as soon as I no longer need ice queen. I got to go back and actually deal with and have the ego show up that I need to to deal with this issue in my life right now.

00:30:04.800 –> 00:30:14.670
Kathy Gruver: Yep, to have those emotions and that that is, you know, something we do we stuff emotions with food with drugs with work with, you know, we do at some point have to process those emotions.

00:30:16.110 –> 00:30:20.820
Kathy Gruver: And yeah, it’s fascinating. So had a point oh no it’s gone that he

00:30:21.150 –> 00:30:22.500
Jason Mefford: Left. Here you go. Say left

00:30:22.560 –> 00:30:23.490
Jason Mefford: Come back.

00:30:24.360 –> 00:30:29.280
Jason Mefford: Yes, maybe. Well, and I think I think what’s interesting, too. I’ve actually noticed

00:30:30.810 –> 00:30:45.660
Jason Mefford: One of the guys that I listened to a lot of his podcasts and stuff, he will, you know, just like that, when he is here’s kind of another way of anchor help to tap your subconscious a little bit is when he’s trying to explain something and he can’t remember.

00:30:46.230 –> 00:30:47.460
Jason Mefford: You’ll actually asked

00:30:47.460 –> 00:30:57.870
Jason Mefford: Himself a question and and and one of its it’s interesting because I’ve watched this kind of from the sidelines and I don’t know if he’s consciously doing it or not, but I’m seeing where

00:30:58.230 –> 00:31:05.430
Jason Mefford: You know, like that. It’s like, oh, I had a point and then he’d say, you know, what was that point that I had, you know, some kind of a thing like that and then all of a sudden it’s like

00:31:05.520 –> 00:31:10.440
Jason Mefford: Boom. The answer comes in that asking yourself questions, you know,

00:31:10.470 –> 00:31:23.520
Jason Mefford: This goes back to Kim over the guy that wrote the book on a half formations, you know, where instead of him. If you heard that. But instead of having affirmations as a statement he sets them as a question.

00:31:24.570 –> 00:31:32.340
Jason Mefford: Right, so that you’re asking yourself questions because when you ask yourself a question your subconscious wants to give you an answer.

00:31:32.460 –> 00:31:42.270
Jason Mefford: Yes. And so, you know, again, it’s like, you know, saying, Where is my ice queen. Where is my, you know, fun loving jester

00:31:42.660 –> 00:31:48.870
Jason Mefford: You know, kind of a thing can even help them kind of come back out. So anyway, that was little side thing just because

00:31:49.950 –> 00:32:00.180
Kathy Gruver: Well, and I think we’ve also had the experience where we’re like, yeah. So I totally want to go to this event and I will totally do that thing for you. And then we get home. And we’re like, why the fuck. And I agree to do that.

00:32:00.570 –> 00:32:07.650
Kathy Gruver: Oh my god, I totally don’t want to do that thing. I mean, you know, or it’s like yeah let’s go out on that date. We’re going to have fun. I think that’s why

00:32:08.550 –> 00:32:24.330
Kathy Gruver: We’re going to go into weird waters here. I think that’s why there’s that bravado in the bar of you pick up that guy and you’re like, I’m totally going to sleep with him and and then you actually get in the moment you’re like, I don’t know that I know that you know you switched ego states.

00:32:24.540 –> 00:32:30.030
Kathy Gruver: You know, suddenly either a fearful one comes up, or that bravado tough girl chocolates, go do that thing.

00:32:30.210 –> 00:32:32.100
Kathy Gruver: And then you go, Oh, shit. I don’t want to

00:32:33.630 –> 00:32:38.010
Kathy Gruver: I think that’s one of the issues. So the ego state that said yeah let’s totally go do that thing.

00:32:38.700 –> 00:32:55.260
Kathy Gruver: isn’t there anymore. It’s got it has been overtaken by the rational one or the sober one or the whatever, and I think that’s one of the problems I think we also fall in love with certain ego states. I have a friend who’s a magician and women love him.

00:32:56.340 –> 00:32:57.780
Kathy Gruver: UNTIL HE’S NOT ON STAGE anymore.

00:32:59.280 –> 00:33:04.290
Kathy Gruver: They fall in love with his performance ego state, the sort of arrogant, sort of like

00:33:04.530 –> 00:33:10.920
Kathy Gruver: Kind of a dick on stage, but there’s something sexy about that. And then they actually go to dinner with him and he has had several people say to him.

00:33:12.210 –> 00:33:14.730
Kathy Gruver: Kind of like your performer better than you.

00:33:17.340 –> 00:33:19.410
Kathy Gruver: You know, and then of course scary, a little kid is like

00:33:20.700 –> 00:33:24.450
Kathy Gruver: But it’s true. He’s having so much trouble meeting women because they see him as this.

00:33:24.750 –> 00:33:29.460
Kathy Gruver: Very cocky very confident person, which isn’t who he is. That’s his ego state on stage.

00:33:30.570 –> 00:33:36.450
Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s why i mean it’s for performers in general, that’s, that’s hard because the public sees you as the performer.

00:33:36.660 –> 00:33:36.960
Kathy Gruver: Yep.

00:33:37.050 –> 00:33:50.700
Jason Mefford: So yeah, if, again, if he’s just wanting to, you know, continue that have fun, you know, stay in that ego state when he’s out dating is going to have fun right but if he wants a longer term relationship he needs to probably meet people.

00:33:52.170 –> 00:33:58.350
Jason Mefford: When he’s in his normal ego states, instead of his performer states so they can actually see him for who he is.

00:33:58.770 –> 00:34:04.800
Jason Mefford: Instead of falling in love with that one ego state that only shows up you know once or twice a week, whenever he happens to be performing right

00:34:04.860 –> 00:34:05.940
Kathy Gruver: Yep, so

00:34:06.360 –> 00:34:08.400
Jason Mefford: Interesting. It’s interesting.

00:34:08.760 –> 00:34:24.870
Kathy Gruver: I know, and this one every thing. I mean, it’s like I was so Jasmine. I found this video I have played with so many different modalities and so many different things that you know I do hypnosis and this actually Gordon Emerson actually created this for hypnosis.

00:34:25.980 –> 00:34:33.360
Kathy Gruver: When you work with the ego states in therapy. Like, I will have a person in hypnosis unless we’re switching chairs unless I’m doing negotiation which like I said, I did the other day.

00:34:34.470 –> 00:34:47.520
Kathy Gruver: So yeah, but it’s the last car was the last card. I wanted to show you because there is a state that’s executive most times. And it’s interesting because I’ve tried to find the card that’s executive go

00:34:49.230 –> 00:34:50.310
Jason Mefford: One. The drunk on the floor.

00:34:50.760 –> 00:34:54.960
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, maybe I’m covered in cards. All right, you say something, I’ll find a

00:34:55.140 –> 00:34:59.730
Jason Mefford: Card. Oh, I’m saying something something something so

00:35:01.080 –> 00:35:01.980
Jason Mefford: Just being a smartass

00:35:03.960 –> 00:35:04.800
Jason Mefford: Well, no, I did.

00:35:06.060 –> 00:35:11.760
Jason Mefford: Yeah. Well, you could. You made reference to Eric’s to which is which is interesting or Emerson. Yeah.

00:35:13.530 –> 00:35:20.100
Jason Mefford: Mike. Mike made reference to he’s one of the pioneers of hypnosis and in the modern age in America.

00:35:21.600 –> 00:35:26.850
Jason Mefford: So yeah, he was even using this stuff back there. But then it’s kind of been lost a little bit

00:35:27.240 –> 00:35:30.420
Kathy Gruver: So there’s a trigger herself Milton Erickson is the hypnosis guy.

00:35:30.570 –> 00:35:35.160
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, Gordon Emerson is the resource therapy guy. He’s in Australia.

00:35:35.490 –> 00:35:37.680
Jason Mefford: Cool. Okay. That’s why to eat.

00:35:37.710 –> 00:35:38.250
So I was like,

00:35:39.300 –> 00:35:43.740
Jason Mefford: That’s why when you said I was like I was reading something about Erickson this morning. What are you talking about Kathy. Okay.

00:35:44.070 –> 00:35:44.910

00:35:46.050 –> 00:35:48.810
Jason Mefford: Emerson was doing the resource stuff in Australia.

00:35:49.110 –> 00:35:49.740
Jason Mefford: Yeah, sure.

00:35:49.860 –> 00:35:51.810
Jason Mefford: Yeah, I learned something today too.

00:35:53.250 –> 00:35:53.850
Kathy Gruver: I hope so.

00:35:54.000 –> 00:35:56.040
Jason Mefford: I hope so. I learned lots of stuff today.

00:35:57.030 –> 00:35:57.930
Kathy Gruver: And see what’s that’s

00:35:58.410 –> 00:36:03.570
Kathy Gruver: What’s fun about you and I as we can do like this professional thing, but we can also let our little kids out

00:36:03.750 –> 00:36:13.440
Kathy Gruver: And just like tease each other and play. And I think that’s what was appealing to each other. When we met at the NSA meeting is we could see that there was that we sparked a little kids in each other. And I love that. I love that so

00:36:13.770 –> 00:36:19.320
Kathy Gruver: We all have an ego state that’s just sort of our default ego state that’s around all the time. This is mine.

00:36:19.800 –> 00:36:26.490
Kathy Gruver: I love this card. And as I was searching for like a human that represented, who I was all the time. I realized there wasn’t one

00:36:27.240 –> 00:36:32.400
Kathy Gruver: This is what it is. It’s this balance. It’s the the balance of reaching for the sky and being grounded in the earth.

00:36:32.760 –> 00:36:45.660
Kathy Gruver: And my normal waking state. This is just sort of who I am, until one of the others comes forward and they’re not always, you know, like I said, they’re not always positive ish. They all have a purpose, though all of our ego state serve a purpose.

00:36:48.330 –> 00:36:49.500
Kathy Gruver: They all serve a purpose.

00:36:51.150 –> 00:36:54.090
Kathy Gruver: Yeah, unless they’re invaded and down and

00:36:55.140 –> 00:37:05.070
Kathy Gruver: There’s a state protecting and serving a purpose. So it’s just, it’s such a cool thing. And I’ve been having so much fun with this. And I’ve already helped three or four people with it and just the short amount of time I’ve been playing with it. So yeah, and

00:37:05.700 –> 00:37:11.490
Kathy Gruver: I have such deeper insight into myself. And so I know what to call forward when which is which is awesome.

00:37:12.480 –> 00:37:23.880
Jason Mefford: Well, in my nerdy. He goes status taken over, and I’ve been taking all kinds of notes, too. So it’s a good yeah I bought the I bought the deck of cards, but I haven’t really used them, per se. I flipped through them.

00:37:24.720 –> 00:37:31.230
Jason Mefford: A few times. But yeah, now I’ve got a lot better idea of how I can actually go back and try to start using it or thinking about it.

00:37:31.530 –> 00:37:50.340
Jason Mefford: Yeah, because again, for me, I’m trying to be and show up right as that future self, or that person that I that I want to be that I want to share with the world that’s going to make an impact and difference in the world. And I need to have that ego state show up.

00:37:50.430 –> 00:37:51.660
Jason Mefford: More and more

00:37:52.440 –> 00:37:59.250
Jason Mefford: And so when you know, like you said, when we notice that these other ones are kind of creeping in, it’s like, Okay. Sometimes that’s okay.

00:37:59.790 –> 00:38:15.000
Jason Mefford: But you know that still go with that. But we need to try to be that other person as much of the time as we can be. And so again, if there’s conflict between some of the different states. Let’s talk it through and figure out what’s going on.

00:38:15.030 –> 00:38:15.540
Kathy Gruver: Exactly.

00:38:15.690 –> 00:38:26.220
Jason Mefford: Let the, you know, let the little kid realize hey you know what you’re not neglected and it’s not that you’re not loved right it’s it’s because of this right. Can you understand that. Oh, yeah. No, I totally see that.

00:38:27.870 –> 00:38:35.070
Kathy Gruver: And kind of go from there. Yeah. So flip through the cards, see which ones resonate with you. You don’t even need to know why it resonates with you pull them out.

00:38:35.340 –> 00:38:43.650
Kathy Gruver: And then kind of start looking at, you know, what are my positive ones water, the ones that maybe need a little bit more work maybe are hurt ones that I’m going to have to counsel, a little bit.

00:38:43.890 –> 00:38:52.260
Kathy Gruver: See which ones are in conflict. Again, it’s typically that work play on and then see what leads to what, like I said, I have a progression of

00:38:52.650 –> 00:38:59.970
Kathy Gruver: Very focused on work. And then, oh my god, I’m crew and then you know you can chart that progression and it tends to get less healthy seconds down the line.

00:39:00.330 –> 00:39:03.990
Kathy Gruver: And then what balance. You have to find in that and it’s just all about self awareness.

00:39:04.290 –> 00:39:14.610
Kathy Gruver: And then being able to call certain ego state forward and I’m the same as Mike he talked about. He has his lecture self he has the librarian which feeds them facts and he has the the Jester, which does is

00:39:15.570 –> 00:39:27.030
Kathy Gruver: I have the exact same thing. I have my lecture Kathy I have Capricorn that feeds me information and I have the comedian next to me, who notes funny things and throws that funny lines.

00:39:27.450 –> 00:39:36.990
Kathy Gruver: And I have to make sure the right ones there all the time because sometimes the humor can, you know, you walk off stage and you have that ego boost and then the humor comes out and people are like, why she’s saying that, you know,

00:39:38.220 –> 00:39:40.530
Kathy Gruver: So, but yes, there’s so many great ways to use this stuff so

00:39:41.760 –> 00:39:49.020
Jason Mefford: So go out and get a pack of the cards and just start playing with it and see, you know, like you said, I mean we’ve we’ve seen some

00:39:49.380 –> 00:39:53.010
Jason Mefford: benefits from it. Kathy’s already had some clients that have gotten a lot of benefit from it.

00:39:53.580 –> 00:40:00.780
Jason Mefford: And it’s more just that awareness, you know, the more aware, we are about what we’re feeling and why we’re feeling that way.

00:40:01.470 –> 00:40:12.930
Jason Mefford: The easier, we can actually work through this stuff and not have it, you know, continue to hold us down because if you’re gonna unlock your potential. You got to work through some of the shit in your life. I mean, that’s just, that’s just a fact.

00:40:13.230 –> 00:40:19.200
Jason Mefford: If not, you’re going to stay stuck where you are. You still have to have the courage to actually do it even if it’s a little bit different.

00:40:19.590 –> 00:40:28.650
Jason Mefford: Even if it feels a little uncomfortable because you know what, if you want a better different life it’s going to feel uncomfortable because it’s not what you’re used to. Yeah.

00:40:28.680 –> 00:40:29.010
Kathy Gruver: You got it.

00:40:29.160 –> 00:40:30.870
Jason Mefford: You just got to get used to that. So,

00:40:30.930 –> 00:40:45.870
Kathy Gruver: Absolutely. Yay. So go north, figure out what ego state you have executive, what you want to be executive and again it comes down to knowing what you want and then who you are, can come forward and help you with that. So it’s been a fun show. Yeah. All right, I got cards all over my desk. Now,

00:40:47.130 –> 00:40:48.510
Kathy Gruver: Capricorn would like to clean that up.

00:40:48.750 –> 00:40:49.470
Jason Mefford: All right, there you

00:40:49.800 –> 00:40:52.590
Kathy Gruver: Excellent. I’m Kathy group, I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

00:40:52.860 –> 00:41:00.570
Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm and we’ll see you on a future episode of the fire and earth podcast. See ya.

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