With technology rapidly becoming more advanced, along with a rapidly changing economy, what do we as humans bring to the table when it comes to doing work?

Due to this proliferation of technology in the workplace, what kinds of things can you be doing to stay relevant and ahead of this technological curve?

We are joined with Greg Hutchins, an engineer who has been dedicated to studying the future of job markets and the evolution of work.

Get a copy of Greg’s book: Working It Disruption Rules: COVID Edition, on Amazon at: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08X3SBD2F/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i1

Greg Hutchins is the founder of 800Compete.com, WorkingIt.com, CERMAcademy.com, QualityPlusEngineering.com, and other startups. Greg Hutchins is the risk evangelist who coined the expression Future of Quality: Risk®.

Greg’s company, CERMAcademy.com, is the developer of Certified Enterprise Risk Manager® (CERM). CERM is based on the trademarked approach of Risk Based, Problem Solving and Risk Based, Decision Making®. CERM introduced the ERM approach of architecting, designing, deploying, and assuring™ risk controls.

Greg Hutchins PE CERM is also the principal professional engineer Quality + Engineering – international supply and quality management firm. He has written best selling books on global ISO standards and risk management. Greg is the author of ISO 9000 (best selling – translated into 8 languages published through John Wiley), Value Added Auditing, ISO 31000: Enterprise Risk Management, ISO Risk Based Thinking, Risk Based Thinking, Supply Management Strategies (APICS, ISM, ASQ endorsed and used in certifications), and Standard Manual of Quality Auditing and more than a dozen article international books.

Several Hutchins’ books include:

  • Supply Chain Risk Management
  • ISO 31000:2018 Enterprise Risk Management
  • Risk Based Thinking
  • Risk Based Auditing:Using ISO 19011:2018
  • Factory and Sourcing Checklists
  • Value Added Auditing:4th Edition
  • Operational Excellence Handbook:An Enterprise Approach
  • Supply Management Strategies: 3rd Edition

Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/jammingwithjason/


00:00:01.469 –> 00:00:15.929
Jason Mefford: hey everybody, welcome to another episode of jamming with Jason today you’re going to want to listen to this entire episode and why because we’re going to be talking about the future of work.

00:00:16.410 –> 00:00:35.010
Jason Mefford: And whether you realize it or not, work is changing significantly, which means there’s some things you probably need to start doing now to prepare, so that you are ready for the future of work so with that let’s cue the episode.

00:00:37.110 –> 00:00:48.060
Jason Mefford: Well hey Greg It is great to have you with me today, this is one of my my favorite topics, and I think it is for you to talking about the future of work so welcome welcome on to the show.

00:00:48.780 –> 00:00:53.700
Greg Hutchins: hey thanks Jason it’s great to be here and it’s great to meet you too, you know, so we really appreciate it.

00:00:54.300 –> 00:01:03.300
Jason Mefford: yeah well you know, and I know we kind of we ended up hooking up, I think, through a mutual acquaintance right so again, this is where I tell people hey community is important.

00:01:03.750 –> 00:01:10.770
Jason Mefford: here’s an example right we both know the same guy and he’s like hey you two should talk so we talked and here we are right, but.

00:01:11.760 –> 00:01:23.730
Jason Mefford: Maybe just just help people kind of understand a little bit about your background, who you are and why this topic of future of work is something that you’re talking about as well.

00:01:24.720 –> 00:01:32.550
Greg Hutchins: Okay, great well, thank you very much, so we got into the future work about oh shucks 25 years ago i’m an engineer.

00:01:34.260 –> 00:01:39.930
Greg Hutchins: And we brought somebody at the portland I was basically chairing a Economic Development Committee.

00:01:40.590 –> 00:01:57.540
Greg Hutchins: Intel at that time was bringing in a lot of fabrication shops into the portland area portland Oregon the FABs basically makes silicon chips, and we need a speaker for our Friday program and there was a guy out there called Gordon Moore one of the founders.

00:01:57.540 –> 00:01:59.490
Jason Mefford: Oh yeah one of the founders of Intel.

00:01:59.940 –> 00:02:08.640
Greg Hutchins: Absolutely, and you know he basically came up with this idea of moore’s law yep moore’s law basically it’s pretty simple.

00:02:09.870 –> 00:02:16.530
Greg Hutchins: If you got a chip is going to double and speed every two years or it’s going to cost half as much.

00:02:17.670 –> 00:02:42.540
Greg Hutchins: And we were wondering as an engineer, is there a human element, Sir, is there a a people component to that, in other words, do we be marketable functional as engineers, do we need to basically retrain ourselves in education or skills or an aptitudes and the question is there’s a half life.

00:02:43.620 –> 00:02:53.520
Greg Hutchins: In product development, meeting the knowledge in the field doubles in so many years, so if we say four years as a half play that basically means that.

00:02:54.090 –> 00:03:10.620
Greg Hutchins: The amount of information that might have knowledge, the amount of data and that fields is going to double in four years and then four years again it’s going to double so let’s say that i’m an engineer, and I graduated 2226 knowledge is double i’m 30 knowledge is doubled again.

00:03:11.070 –> 00:03:16.560
Jason Mefford: So, since I graduated and it’s compounding to it’s not just double double its compounding.

00:03:17.100 –> 00:03:31.650
Greg Hutchins: Right absolutely that’s a great point, am I still marketable by the time i’m 30 Am I still well somebody still want me if I haven’t gotten back and gotten some skills some some new technologies, under my belt.

00:03:32.970 –> 00:03:38.520
Greg Hutchins: That was the assumption and Gordon thought about it for a second and said yeah absolutely.

00:03:39.780 –> 00:03:41.820
Greg Hutchins: All engineers are techie workers.

00:03:42.990 –> 00:03:53.550
Greg Hutchins: one form or another, so let’s fast forward to the present the big thing right now is we’re all technical workers so one form or another doesn’t matter if you’re a nurse.

00:03:55.200 –> 00:04:03.660
Greg Hutchins: If you’re a doctor an engineer an auditor knowledge in your field is going to double could be eight years, it could be four years.

00:04:04.170 –> 00:04:20.610
Greg Hutchins: If you’re in the bleeding edge discipline like artificial intelligence it’s going to double every year and question is, if you don’t retread me go back to school, if you don’t update your skills, if you don’t become current are you going to be functionally illiterate.

00:04:21.990 –> 00:04:25.710
Greg Hutchins: and potentially not marketable that’s The big question that drove us.

00:04:26.670 –> 00:04:27.810
Jason Mefford: Well it’s interesting.

00:04:27.870 –> 00:04:37.080
Jason Mefford: You bring that up because I remember you know it was, I think it was a study that IBM did where it where it was talking about, you know that, with the doubling of knowledge.

00:04:37.380 –> 00:04:46.560
Jason Mefford: yep and you know it for a long time, I mean it was they went back to like the beginning of the human epoch of history kind of thing right and it’s.

00:04:46.560 –> 00:04:46.770
Jason Mefford: Like.

00:04:47.130 –> 00:04:56.070
Jason Mefford: It took 20,000 years you know to double but, from that point on it’s just gotten faster and faster and faster and so.

00:04:56.610 –> 00:05:09.300
Jason Mefford: You know I think even like with moore’s law, you know when Gordon came up with this 25 3040 years ago it was every two years, every 18 months, but I think even in that space it’s sped up quicker than that.

00:05:09.810 –> 00:05:14.190
Jason Mefford: And I think you’re seeing the same thing right from a technical workers standpoint.

00:05:14.490 –> 00:05:20.100
Jason Mefford: it’s speeding up you’re lucky if it’s only going, like every four or five years.

00:05:20.580 –> 00:05:23.970
Jason Mefford: Most likely it’s quicker quicker than that for most people.

00:05:24.600 –> 00:05:28.770
Greg Hutchins: And the fact is now all of us work with technology in one form or another.

00:05:28.950 –> 00:05:38.490
Greg Hutchins: yep so before it applied to engineers, but since we’re all technical workers in one form or another is going to impact, all of us.

00:05:39.690 –> 00:05:43.170
Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s interesting because you know so here’s another like real life thing.

00:05:43.830 –> 00:05:50.520
Greg Hutchins: You know my heard about attorneys is you know anytime that you go into like discovery.

00:05:51.090 –> 00:06:01.320
Jason Mefford: They gotta they gotta weed through you know boxes and boxes and boxes of stuff a lot of the cost of litigation is is this discovery phase.

00:06:01.860 –> 00:06:17.190
Jason Mefford: And i’ve heard that even some law firms now are using Ai to replace the people and they can actually chump through all of this digitized data much quicker and more accurately.

00:06:17.940 –> 00:06:32.910
Jason Mefford: than the attorneys good, and so, even when you take something, you know that seems Okay, yes it’s technical, but you always think of an attorney is like more like you know I don’t know hands on personal human kind of connection that’s even going away right.

00:06:34.560 –> 00:06:41.550
Greg Hutchins: Well, he just got well that’s a good point so a lawyer for a big firm is going to run you 600 bucks an hour.

00:06:43.560 –> 00:06:45.990
Greg Hutchins: that’s not partner level that’s a senior.

00:06:46.020 –> 00:06:49.620
Jason Mefford: Basically, sorry there’s going to be 1000 to 15 an hour.

00:06:49.800 –> 00:06:50.970
Greg Hutchins: That directly right.

00:06:51.180 –> 00:06:58.950
Greg Hutchins: yeah and when I mentioned that in my podcasts people say none of that nobody makes 1500 bucks an hour, yes, they do.

00:06:59.250 –> 00:06:59.550

00:07:00.900 –> 00:07:08.130
Greg Hutchins: And what’s happening is $600 an hour lawyers legions of them coming out of school basically.

00:07:09.720 –> 00:07:11.520
Greg Hutchins: are going to be doing this discovery.

00:07:13.020 –> 00:07:25.860
Greg Hutchins: You can get an Ai once you digitize all the data and Ai product can do that faster better and cheaper and 600 not one i’m talking about 10 or 20 years.

00:07:26.310 –> 00:07:36.300
Greg Hutchins: And they call it a discovery so that’s one example, a lawyer might go and litigate but what happens if that lawyer does eat litigation, you know.

00:07:36.510 –> 00:07:38.010
Greg Hutchins: Electronic litigate.

00:07:39.090 –> 00:07:39.540
Greg Hutchins: yeah.

00:07:40.830 –> 00:07:47.160
Jason Mefford: I mean it could come to the point right where we’re in the future there’s like some Ai judge who knows.

00:07:49.440 –> 00:08:01.530
Jason Mefford: Both sides are arguing their case electronically I don’t know I mean it could get there, I mean science fiction, you know again if you go back to the 50s and 60s when SCI fi first started or like.

00:08:01.560 –> 00:08:05.430
Jason Mefford: You know okay go back and watch star trek like the first version of star trek.

00:08:06.120 –> 00:08:08.610
Greg Hutchins: And the 70 I know.

00:08:08.760 –> 00:08:10.470
Jason Mefford: 6767 yeah.

00:08:10.950 –> 00:08:11.400
Greg Hutchins: The.

00:08:11.460 –> 00:08:18.840
Jason Mefford: The technology from there we’ve surpassed that already right, so what used to be science fiction is now science faction.

00:08:19.380 –> 00:08:22.230
Jason Mefford: And we’re actually living with it right.

00:08:23.070 –> 00:08:30.420
Jason Mefford: wow so So how have you I guess let’s let’s try to you know relate this back back to people.

00:08:30.930 –> 00:08:38.970
Jason Mefford: As well right because, again, I mean I want people to walk away with okay Well, this is nice moore’s law blah blah blah blah blah, but how does this actually.

00:08:39.540 –> 00:08:50.340
Jason Mefford: affect me, and I think you’ve you’ve kind of seen it from your profession from the engineer side i’ve been seeing it from my side you know the risk managers, the auditors, the accountants.

00:08:50.910 –> 00:09:02.550
Jason Mefford: But you know what does this actually mean for real human beings what How is this going to impact them what do they need to do so that they don’t just get outsourced to a machine.

00:09:05.040 –> 00:09:14.970
Greg Hutchins: Well here’s the thing that’s scary with these machines these machines used to be what you programmed in would be what you’d program out, what do you come out.

00:09:16.230 –> 00:09:25.260
Greg Hutchins: These machines now are becoming smart, so I post a question every time I give these talks about a siri product or a smartphone.

00:09:26.220 –> 00:09:38.700
Greg Hutchins: And three years could be less that smartphone you carry is going to have all the information in your profession it’s going to be able to do data searches it’s going to be able to.

00:09:39.870 –> 00:09:45.090
Greg Hutchins: Find precedent it’s going to be able to do E discovery it’s going to be able to do, risk analysis.

00:09:46.140 –> 00:10:03.060
Greg Hutchins: it’s going to be able to do accounting analysis, you know figure out piano it’s going to be able to do a lot of work and what’s going to happen is that machine is going to have risk based Problem Solving and risk based decision making smarts into the machine.

00:10:04.380 –> 00:10:12.240
Greg Hutchins: And the big challenge for us all work is this a matter of which field, I mean even laying bricks now they have Ai robots laying bricks.

00:10:14.880 –> 00:10:16.980
Greg Hutchins: Think about a smartphone.

00:10:18.150 –> 00:10:26.940
Greg Hutchins: That you’re going to be working with in three years that’s going to be able to make decisions and solve problems, based upon historical knowledge.

00:10:27.480 –> 00:10:39.510
Greg Hutchins: quicker better and faster than you that’s a challenge, and the question is, what are the protocols, what are the rules of engagement between us people and that machine that’s going to be right next to you.

00:10:41.340 –> 00:10:43.170
Greg Hutchins: Well, as they’re all yeah.

00:10:43.230 –> 00:10:49.110
Jason Mefford: yeah well and I remember you know Warren bennis used to be a professor at usc like.

00:10:49.140 –> 00:10:54.240
Jason Mefford: yep Alma mater for my masters right, but he I remember he.

00:10:56.160 –> 00:11:09.390
Jason Mefford: He said, you know, in the future, factories, because I have a manufacturing background the map, but but factories will be made up of three things, it will be a machine, it will be a man, and it will be a dog.

00:11:10.530 –> 00:11:13.170
Jason Mefford: And the machine does the work.

00:11:13.710 –> 00:11:19.050
Jason Mefford: The man is there to watch and make sure the machine is working.

00:11:20.070 –> 00:11:24.510
Jason Mefford: And the dog is there to make sure the man does not touch the machine.

00:11:25.980 –> 00:11:35.850
Jason Mefford: Right, and you know when he said that I don’t know 20 or 30 years ago it was kind of funny but now it’s almost like my gosh how far away, are we.

00:11:36.390 –> 00:11:45.930
Jason Mefford: From that right, because I know, in my experience from manufacturing, I mean I saw pictures from 50 years ago where we would literally have like 2000 people.

00:11:46.470 –> 00:11:56.100
Jason Mefford: Doing stuff in a factory now that same factory only has 50 or 100 people, because the machines doing everything that the people used to do.

00:11:57.900 –> 00:12:17.520
Greg Hutchins: And now we thought as knowledge workers, we were pretty protected, because we had discipline specific we had functional specific we had location specific information and we had the skills for problem solving decision making, now a lot of that is being taken away from us, unfortunately.

00:12:19.320 –> 00:12:27.030
Greg Hutchins: And every company now is developing these smart whatever we want to call them a robot is essentially a machine.

00:12:28.110 –> 00:12:43.440
Greg Hutchins: siri is a machine, what are we going to do when we have a smart work siri or alexa, what are the rules of engagement, what are you know what are our responsibilities in the machines responsibilities.

00:12:44.850 –> 00:12:46.170
Greg Hutchins: What are the expectations.

00:12:47.610 –> 00:12:50.130
Greg Hutchins: From employer or the machine.

00:12:51.690 –> 00:12:51.960
Jason Mefford: that’s.

00:12:52.110 –> 00:12:54.360
Greg Hutchins: scary and it’s happening very.

00:12:55.320 –> 00:13:04.380
Jason Mefford: Well, and I think you know, especially you know some of us like you and me that have been kind of geeky techie nerdy about this stuff for a while.

00:13:05.190 –> 00:13:14.880
Jason Mefford: You know we’ve been kind of seeing it coming, but I think especially this last year with things totally getting turned upside down.

00:13:16.290 –> 00:13:27.780
Jason Mefford: And now, companies are starting to you know reassess their their whole go to market the you know how what they’re what they’re doing the goods or services that they’re providing.

00:13:28.350 –> 00:13:43.950
Jason Mefford: And in like you said, I mean some stuff I I grew up the son of a contractor right and I never would have thought that houses could be built by machines, but i’ve watched like a 3D printed house get made in one day right, I mean so it’s like.

00:13:45.390 –> 00:14:01.530
Jason Mefford: You know, come companies are looking at this now right so have we just really kind of pushed up what was inevitable, but maybe was out 10 or 20 years and we just pushed that up and accelerated it even more now because of what we’ve gone through this last year.

00:14:02.370 –> 00:14:19.410
Greg Hutchins: I think, so this coven is just simply been makes makes all of us me as an individual me as a company, whatever we do i’ve been forced to assess or reassess everything our work, our products, our assumptions our business model.

00:14:20.430 –> 00:14:28.920
Greg Hutchins: What we outsource when we in source manufacturers on reevaluating the classic maker by decision from 30 years ago.

00:14:29.040 –> 00:14:32.010
Greg Hutchins: yep everything is being reassessed.

00:14:33.030 –> 00:14:42.270
Greg Hutchins: And you know, unfortunately, there aren’t that many models, I mean this quite frankly we haven’t had a pandemic in almost 100 years.

00:14:42.510 –> 00:14:44.880
Jason Mefford: yeah none of us remember the old one.

00:14:49.140 –> 00:14:51.990
Greg Hutchins: Nobody yeah we don’t remember the old one, obviously.

00:14:53.220 –> 00:15:02.670
Greg Hutchins: Companies I think all over the world are looking at work, looking at life through a new new filter and that filter is going to be risk based.

00:15:03.990 –> 00:15:07.860
Greg Hutchins: The yeah i’m sorry I was about to interrupt go ahead.

00:15:07.920 –> 00:15:15.330
Jason Mefford: No, I was just going to say, because one of the points that you made that I think is, I just want to reiterate, with people because.

00:15:15.780 –> 00:15:25.050
Jason Mefford: Again i’m not trying to scare the hell out of everybody, but I am trying to scare the hell out of you, in some ways right that, but you brought up, you said you know knowledge workers thought they were safe.

00:15:26.130 –> 00:15:33.570
Jason Mefford: And I think that is a common belief that most people have right like you know when when I went to college.

00:15:34.050 –> 00:15:41.100
Jason Mefford: I got an accounting degree well Why did I get an accounting degree it’s, not because I love doing debits and credits and wanted to be a bookkeeper.

00:15:41.790 –> 00:15:52.050
Jason Mefford: From a practical perspective right hey with an accounting degree i’d always be able to fall back on something and always be able to get a job.

00:15:52.620 –> 00:16:08.220
Jason Mefford: But I don’t know if that’s true anymore right because, again, just like we saw you know traditional bookkeepers the people were in the green visors know rooms and rooms of people posting to ledger’s are no more, because now that computer does it.

00:16:08.850 –> 00:16:20.130
Jason Mefford: Now we have financial analysts, but again, if you can teach the computer how to do all of that decision making, then again those jobs could kind of go away right.

00:16:20.610 –> 00:16:32.850
Jason Mefford: So so we’re not safe so that’s why we’re having this discussion, but again, you said everybody’s going to be looking more for risk based so maybe kind of talk a little bit about that, what do you mean by that How does that kind of show up.

00:16:33.690 –> 00:16:35.010
Greg Hutchins: As an interesting point.

00:16:36.030 –> 00:16:45.930
Greg Hutchins: We we’re our firm is a bunch of geeks we do we’re a quantitative shop we do analytics.

00:16:46.950 –> 00:16:58.680
Greg Hutchins: Specifically, we do SIP critical in first Infrastructure Protection forensics assurance and analytics like we mentioned that fork nerc type of connection.

00:17:00.000 –> 00:17:07.350
Greg Hutchins: And we’re finding that for our field, which is very niche he said engineering risk type of field.

00:17:08.670 –> 00:17:20.640
Greg Hutchins: The prism the filter the lens that we looked at all of our work was through risk now I think everybody because of Kobe is looking at life.

00:17:21.540 –> 00:17:32.250
Greg Hutchins: is looking at work through that less risk lens django shot, if I had my inoculation should I work love, should I have a mass color Should I be there, what type what hmm I.

00:17:33.570 –> 00:17:39.060
Greg Hutchins: Just simply living and working now risk is becoming much more personal to all of us.

00:17:40.170 –> 00:17:46.230
Jason Mefford: Well, and I think it’s interesting because, as you say that you know you and I have been dealing with risk management things for.

00:17:46.230 –> 00:17:47.610
Jason Mefford: Decades right.

00:17:48.120 –> 00:17:58.650
Jason Mefford: But but it’s funny, especially since 2008 2009 That was the big you know when we had that banking crisis, the recession, at that point.

00:17:59.130 –> 00:18:01.980
Jason Mefford: It woke people up to this whole idea of risk.

00:18:01.980 –> 00:18:10.290
Jason Mefford: management or maybe more formalized of using certain terms calling it risk and what’s been funny is.

00:18:11.100 –> 00:18:19.980
Jason Mefford: At the word risk, you can see, regular people using that word much more now.

00:18:20.430 –> 00:18:25.830
Jason Mefford: than they ever did and again, you know, like like this last year, especially because people are.

00:18:26.160 –> 00:18:37.650
Jason Mefford: are looking at the risks are trying to you know mitigate the risks of getting coven so you know you wipe down you wear a mask you were the hand sanitizer your wash your hands 20 times a day right.

00:18:38.220 –> 00:18:49.470
Jason Mefford: But, but even the carry over because you know i’m an American football fan, and I remember you know, I was watching I think it’s a show called hard knocks and.

00:18:49.980 –> 00:18:57.960
Jason Mefford: They were doing some effort, it was it was this last season, where they were talking about the rams which is my team and the chargers because they’re both here in La.

00:18:58.830 –> 00:19:11.850
Jason Mefford: And I remember the coach on the vein of the rams as they were interviewing and were there were different, you know snippets he was using the word risk a lot.

00:19:12.330 –> 00:19:19.890
Jason Mefford: You know, more so than I would have expected in that profession even and, yes, I mean that’s what they’re.

00:19:20.280 –> 00:19:31.380
Jason Mefford: they’re trying to reduce risk right there they’re trying to move the ball down the field they’re trying to understand what what, what are the likely risks what’s the Defense going to do to stop the play that we’re going to have.

00:19:32.130 –> 00:19:33.120
Jason Mefford: that’s all.

00:19:33.630 –> 00:19:51.720
Jason Mefford: Normal, but the fact that he’s actually using the word risk and I hear people outside of the risk management profession, using the word risk so much more I guess that probably means all of us need to understand risk better as well right.

00:19:52.860 –> 00:20:02.580
Greg Hutchins: Well, when they look at Ai so we’ve over the last five years, actually we’ve been involved with Ai for about 30 years Ai is not in you discipline is no.

00:20:03.300 –> 00:20:16.950
Greg Hutchins: yeah, the only thing that’s changed is the machines processing power is much faster and they’ve gotten a little bit smarter, but the idea has been around for 30 years well actually probably 50 years.

00:20:18.450 –> 00:20:23.730
Greg Hutchins: Well it’s scary now, but this whole area is that the machines are getting smarter.

00:20:24.990 –> 00:20:26.190
Greg Hutchins: they’re getting proactive.

00:20:27.450 –> 00:20:31.440
Greg Hutchins: repetitive predictive and now even preemptive.

00:20:32.610 –> 00:20:41.160
Greg Hutchins: So those four P that used to be the distinguishing characteristics of knowledge workers now those machines have.

00:20:42.450 –> 00:20:58.890
Greg Hutchins: And the question is when those machines have it, what do we bring to the table used to be, what did the machine bring the table to support us as decision makers, or as knowledge workers now the machines have that and we, or whoever is.

00:21:00.060 –> 00:21:11.130
Greg Hutchins: doing some work they’ve got to sort of understand how are they going to work cooperatively is it you know with the with the smart objects, you know and smart machines.

00:21:12.750 –> 00:21:15.210
Greg Hutchins: And that’s going to require some type of training.

00:21:17.820 –> 00:21:28.290
Greg Hutchins: and possibly developing some embarrassing numerical type skills learning to code learning to read code learning to.

00:21:32.880 –> 00:21:39.180
Greg Hutchins: learning how to automate processes which we don’t want to do sometimes because they can basically change our basic work function.

00:21:39.810 –> 00:22:02.250
Greg Hutchins: yep the classic example we’ve seen is a number of workers that we’ve seen will bring in machines and they’re given say a 20% bump for six months, and all of a sudden that machine that Ai product takes over a lot of that person’s function, all of a sudden, a department is happening sized.

00:22:03.870 –> 00:22:04.140
You know.

00:22:05.250 –> 00:22:09.420
Greg Hutchins: And that’s frankly very scary for a lot of folks so was it would be for me.

00:22:09.960 –> 00:22:17.490
Jason Mefford: yeah well, and so what i’m kind of hearing, then I guess is this, and this is probably true for everyone right is that.

00:22:18.150 –> 00:22:27.930
Jason Mefford: More and more of our jobs are technology dependent right, so one thing I remember one thing that we’d said before, is hey.

00:22:28.320 –> 00:22:34.380
Jason Mefford: You know there used to be this big split in auditing we’ll just use that as as an example right.

00:22:34.860 –> 00:22:43.050
Jason Mefford: Well there’s financial auditors there’s operational auditors there’s it auditors okay that’s how it was kind of used to be kind of segregated.

00:22:43.740 –> 00:22:54.480
Jason Mefford: And now we kind of joke that know every auditor has to have a basic knowledge of it to audit because it goes through.

00:22:54.960 –> 00:23:02.910
Jason Mefford: Everything right and so even your example of hey maybe one of the skills that we need is to actually learn how to code.

00:23:03.600 –> 00:23:17.160
Jason Mefford: Right, you know again there’s different languages or other stuff like that, but it’s it’s no different if we use an analogy of you know, we went from typewriters clink clink clink clink clink clink clink typewriters to word processors.

00:23:17.580 –> 00:23:21.420
Jason Mefford: Right so so we had to make that transition, we had to understand.

00:23:21.810 –> 00:23:29.250
Jason Mefford: How to use computers, how to use word processing programs that was just a normal evolution.

00:23:29.700 –> 00:23:31.020
Jason Mefford: Of the workforce.

00:23:31.260 –> 00:23:38.490
Jason Mefford: And we’re going to be seeing more and more of those kind of things i’m guessing again from a technical perspective we’re going to have to all.

00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:53.970
Jason Mefford: become more familiar and more comfortable with technology in general, at least that’s one thing I know there’s some other things that i’m sure we’re going to talk about here in just a minute, but that that’s probably one thing that people really need to scale up on.

00:23:57.630 –> 00:23:57.960
Greg Hutchins: I eat.

00:23:59.070 –> 00:24:08.640
Greg Hutchins: Over a bunch of years i’ve written about 30 books and I started with a typewriter, then I moved to the word processor now I use.

00:24:09.690 –> 00:24:11.700
Greg Hutchins: voice recognition to.

00:24:13.080 –> 00:24:14.220
Greg Hutchins: addicted exactly.

00:24:14.640 –> 00:24:19.320
Jason Mefford: You know just funny because that’s an older technology that we used to do right we used to dictate.

00:24:19.800 –> 00:24:22.740
Jason Mefford: For people to use the the the typewriter type it out.

00:24:23.490 –> 00:24:35.490
Greg Hutchins: And the voice recognition was about 90% accurate when I started now the voice recognition, not for recognition systems, but voice transcription.

00:24:36.600 –> 00:24:43.350
Greg Hutchins: that’s a major difference in language voice transcription is 99.5% accurate.

00:24:44.790 –> 00:24:45.570
Greg Hutchins: Think about that.

00:24:47.130 –> 00:24:55.050
Greg Hutchins: So I dictate my book, and I begin it basically frame it afterwards chop this move this you know, anyway, you get the idea.

00:24:56.670 –> 00:25:02.250
Greg Hutchins: Book writing is changed for me it’s just simply talk in front of a computer or.

00:25:03.600 –> 00:25:11.340
Greg Hutchins: You know, some type of smart program and we’re going to see that, with everything unfortunately and auditing.

00:25:12.480 –> 00:25:30.540
Greg Hutchins: Where you folks meaning internal auditors left off with be the technology part the computer systems, the cyber security, the supply chain operations that was our function now internal auditors are doing that same function because they’ve been expanded their domain.

00:25:32.880 –> 00:25:41.370
Greg Hutchins: The CPA firm now is developing new standards for doing supply chain audits they’re developing new standards for.

00:25:42.330 –> 00:25:56.040
Greg Hutchins: For almost everything, so a lot of what we would call functional areas like engineering are morphing together you don’t find simply mechanical engineer anymore you’re finding an engineer, who knows mechanical industrial manufacturing.

00:25:57.240 –> 00:26:13.380
Greg Hutchins: Cyber anyway, you get the idea and that’s happening in all functions, including internal auditing so simple you know start simply anymore CPA or CIA its cyber operations and supply chain at a minimum and it obviously yeah.

00:26:13.800 –> 00:26:25.710
Jason Mefford: Well it’s interesting because, as you as you talk about that you know historically university education used to be liberal arts was the general right, so you go you learn.

00:26:26.400 –> 00:26:39.870
Jason Mefford: A little bit about a lot of stuff so that you’re very broad in your knowledge and that helps you view the world differently right helps you make better decisions as a manager blah blah blah blah blah all those kind of.

00:26:39.930 –> 00:26:40.050
Greg Hutchins: Things.

00:26:40.140 –> 00:26:47.640
Jason Mefford: Right so so up until I don’t know exactly the timing, but it was probably maybe 50 years ago.

00:26:48.240 –> 00:27:04.680
Jason Mefford: When the traditional liberal arts university degrees switched to becoming more technical and so, even though you’re getting a university degree now it’s very similar to to what trade schools used to do.

00:27:05.250 –> 00:27:12.480
Jason Mefford: Right now, they give you a little bit that’s what that’s what your prerequisites are right oh you got to take a history class you got to take an art class and.

00:27:12.900 –> 00:27:18.480
Jason Mefford: And then the rest of your three and a half years is going to be technical about, whatever your topic is.

00:27:19.440 –> 00:27:35.790
Jason Mefford: And it sounds like you know, again as you’re talking there, maybe the old liberal arts or that broader understanding because, like you said you can’t just be good at one particular thing you need to know a little bit about a lot of different things today.

00:27:36.360 –> 00:27:48.840
Greg Hutchins: Absolutely absolutely Jason and the question is, it was interesting bureau of Labor standards that’s a US federal agency, used to say you’re going to have so many jobs over your lifetime.

00:27:50.880 –> 00:28:02.160
Greg Hutchins: Every two or three years you’re going to have a new job now their mantra is you’re going to have a new career every three to four years, not job any longer career.

00:28:03.540 –> 00:28:13.860
Jason Mefford: yeah and that and to have a completely new career means having to get some continuing professional education get some sort of certification.

00:28:14.280 –> 00:28:26.250
Jason Mefford: Go back and maybe get another university degree, I mean all these different things you know and again again because I like to tell people books are great I love books, I read a lot of books.

00:28:26.730 –> 00:28:27.810
Jason Mefford: But a book.

00:28:28.200 –> 00:28:36.570
Jason Mefford: By itself doesn’t prove anything to anybody you can’t put I read 15 books last year on your resume.

00:28:37.890 –> 00:28:48.240
Jason Mefford: But you can put a certification, you can put training courses university degrees, those are things that actually can be career capital.

00:28:48.660 –> 00:28:55.980
Jason Mefford: If you will that you can put on right, so we all need to go back and do that I kind of joke, with people because.

00:28:56.550 –> 00:29:14.430
Jason Mefford: Especially in a lot of the technical areas, you have to get 40 hours of CP a year, I think it might be the same true in the engineering side right and I tell people look don’t need 40 you need 400 hours probably a year now, and if you’re only doing the 40 you’re getting behind.

00:29:16.170 –> 00:29:18.450
Greg Hutchins: Yes, i’ve been true even on your side to.

00:29:19.560 –> 00:29:29.940
Greg Hutchins: Absolutely, so this is a good time for your plug for your company you’re doing the right thing in terms of reforming and reshaping your company to certifications yeah.

00:29:30.960 –> 00:29:44.700
Greg Hutchins: Because we’re going to see people instead of having a four year college degree, having 10 maybe even 20 certifications initials after their name and that’s going to have the same type of cachet.

00:29:45.870 –> 00:29:51.510
Greg Hutchins: To enhance their brand equity, so you say brand capital I would use the word brand equity.

00:29:51.690 –> 00:29:52.290
Jason Mefford: brand equity.

00:29:52.350 –> 00:29:57.750
Greg Hutchins: And we’re going to have that portal portable brand equity moving from job to job to job.

00:29:58.920 –> 00:30:00.090
Jason Mefford: Well, that and of course we.

00:30:00.090 –> 00:30:00.600
Greg Hutchins: hope that.

00:30:00.780 –> 00:30:06.270
Jason Mefford: That is one of the reasons why we’re doing it because, again I i’ve been seeing this coming for a long time.

00:30:07.230 –> 00:30:10.860
Jason Mefford: You know, as being a hiring manager for many years as well.

00:30:11.340 –> 00:30:12.060
Greg Hutchins: Right mm hmm.

00:30:12.540 –> 00:30:18.390
Jason Mefford: Having things like that on somebody’s linkedin profile or on their resume helped me to sort out.

00:30:18.930 –> 00:30:27.420
Jason Mefford: Who, it was going to be right, but again it’s like it’s like you’re saying you know if we have to have let’s say five or six different you know.

00:30:27.930 –> 00:30:36.630
Jason Mefford: Knowledge areas that we need to know about you’re not going to go back and get five or six university degrees are you kidding me 20 years.

00:30:37.380 –> 00:30:52.470
Jason Mefford: To do that right, you also don’t have years of doing archaic kind of certifications the way that they’ve been done and that’s why there’s been such a proliferation of these new, modern certifications as well.

00:30:52.890 –> 00:31:06.780
Jason Mefford: Is because you don’t have five years to get a certification right you you’ve gotta you gotta do something quicker, because you can’t wait five years to get your next job your jobs, probably going to go away and five years before you can even get it.

00:31:07.980 –> 00:31:09.270
Greg Hutchins: Well it’s interesting.

00:31:10.680 –> 00:31:15.030
Greg Hutchins: So this goes back to the value exchange between higher ED.

00:31:16.110 –> 00:31:19.530
Greg Hutchins: And a certification program like you would offer.

00:31:21.570 –> 00:31:37.860
Greg Hutchins: A student in accounting internal audit risk management can go to jason’s certificate programs or certification programs and glue these things together to get the knowledge that somebody needs or the employer needs right now.

00:31:39.000 –> 00:31:42.960
Greg Hutchins: So I was reading an article about Columbia in New York City.

00:31:44.040 –> 00:31:52.890
Greg Hutchins: They have a program 65,000 a year, including 20,000 a year to live in the city.

00:31:54.540 –> 00:32:07.800
Greg Hutchins: Columbia on the upper East side is you know it’s running 65 K, a year 20 K to live in New York that’s 85 K post after taxes right essentially.

00:32:10.050 –> 00:32:18.840
Greg Hutchins: So mean you’re privileged or whatever the current term is what’s the Roi of that a four years I don’t like four times at 85 is but.

00:32:19.020 –> 00:32:21.210
Jason Mefford: For a lot of money.

00:32:22.980 –> 00:32:31.680
Greg Hutchins: Right exactly what’s the Roi of that compared to jason’s program in I a or risk or county.

00:32:33.180 –> 00:32:34.770
Greg Hutchins: Employers are going to be looking at.

00:32:36.690 –> 00:32:43.380
Greg Hutchins: People a lot more differently in you know, in terms of assets that value add what they can do.

00:32:44.490 –> 00:32:55.620
Greg Hutchins: I mean i’ve talked to my daughter she’s going to be applying for jobs against people who have degrees from name, schools and quite honestly employer is going to come up to that.

00:32:56.550 –> 00:33:07.710
Greg Hutchins: person in artificial intelligence or computer science and say here’s a problem you’ve got one hour give me your methodology, give me your assumptions give me your.

00:33:08.910 –> 00:33:22.800
Greg Hutchins: Your flow chart give me your thinking in terms of how would you solve that problem now it comes by they look at it, they say you just pass the first part of the test the second part will be put all this done in the program give me some script.

00:33:25.260 –> 00:33:33.150
Greg Hutchins: And if you’re applying to Google Amazon, by the way they only take about one out of every hundred applicants and software.

00:33:33.870 –> 00:33:45.990
Greg Hutchins: they’re not going to be looking at your solution in terms of yeah it does the job they’re going to be looking at your solution, meaning in the script in terms of how elegant it is how simple it is and how unique it is.

00:33:47.130 –> 00:33:59.070
Greg Hutchins: And at that time doesn’t matter if you went to portland Community college or Stanford or Berkeley in computer science, the person who can answer that question is obviously going to get the job.

00:33:59.850 –> 00:34:02.910
Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s that’s an interesting point that you bring up because you know.

00:34:03.960 –> 00:34:13.680
Jason Mefford: Again, for so long, it used to be hey if I go to Harvard if I go to Stanford if I go to Yale whatever it is, you know pick pick any of the top hundred universities out there.

00:34:14.490 –> 00:34:30.570
Jason Mefford: If I go and I get a degree, I got the pigskin hanging on the wall that name going to get me the job right, but then that that was always the the intention that’s why people spend 400 grand going to do undergrad work right because that’s supposed to get them a job.

00:34:31.080 –> 00:34:46.920
Jason Mefford: But like you said employers have changed how they’re hiring right so that it’s not just yeah you have to have certain things on your resume or on your linkedin profile, because if you don’t have some of the minimum things you’re not even getting get an interview.

00:34:47.340 –> 00:34:53.250
Jason Mefford: that’s true but, once you get the interview you’re going to actually have to show them that you know how to do it.

00:34:54.210 –> 00:35:09.150
Jason Mefford: right because it’s like I remember you know, Google, for a long time has had have these crazy kind of interview questions you know I remember one of them was if you’re a dime at the bottom of a blender and the blenders you know starts, how do you get out of the blender.

00:35:10.290 –> 00:35:13.170
Jason Mefford: I don’t know I guess i’m not getting that no right.

00:35:14.760 –> 00:35:24.750
Jason Mefford: Or you know they’ll do things like that, or like you’re saying actually make you write some computer code come up with a little program to try to actually help solve that.

00:35:25.260 –> 00:35:33.000
Jason Mefford: That problem so it’s you got it you got to get in the door by having some of the certifications or degrees or other things.

00:35:33.420 –> 00:35:40.530
Jason Mefford: That you know you’re well rounded you do have a basic understanding of some of these things, but then you’re going to have to prove yourself as well.

00:35:41.190 –> 00:35:41.880
Greg Hutchins: and quickly.

00:35:42.300 –> 00:35:42.810
Greg Hutchins: yeah and.

00:35:44.070 –> 00:35:48.690
Greg Hutchins: So can I do a quick story of something that came up in your in the UK, this week.

00:35:48.960 –> 00:35:49.260

00:35:50.490 –> 00:35:59.670
Greg Hutchins: So, in the end of the UK there’s something called what we would call the AFL CIO equivalent it called the trade union organization.

00:36:00.780 –> 00:36:08.910
Greg Hutchins: And they’ve made it a big deal with Boris Johnson to say we don’t want machines to hire be able to hire people.

00:36:10.170 –> 00:36:17.700
Greg Hutchins: And the thing that, and the reason why the BBC made a big deal about it this week is because those machines now are hiring people.

00:36:19.500 –> 00:36:25.440
Greg Hutchins: Face unseen sight unseen and to they’re promoting them and firing them.

00:36:26.670 –> 00:36:27.480
Greg Hutchins: All automated.

00:36:28.740 –> 00:36:42.780
Greg Hutchins: And the trade up to the UK was just simply up in arms, I was such a big deal with Boris Johnson, you know the pm, the Prime Minister and with the media that the BBC had a whole bunch of programs and articles about it, everybody did in the UK.

00:36:44.160 –> 00:36:49.770
Greg Hutchins: And that’s just simply a front end indicator that this now it’s going to become a public policy issue.

00:36:51.150 –> 00:36:52.860
Greg Hutchins: How do we keep people employed.

00:36:53.040 –> 00:36:58.620
Greg Hutchins: And employable throughout their lifetime, this is a big deal right now with President Biden.

00:37:00.720 –> 00:37:03.690
Greg Hutchins: he’s picking infrastructure he’s pushing.

00:37:05.070 –> 00:37:06.150
Greg Hutchins: You know, domestic.

00:37:07.380 –> 00:37:22.260
Greg Hutchins: You know less less less outsourcing and more domestic production why high priced work for people so suddenly becoming an individual issues becoming a major global public policy issue.

00:37:23.610 –> 00:37:32.730
Jason Mefford: yeah cuz it’s interesting as we, as we weave through this it is it’s going to take a lot of twists and turns right and that’s why things like UPI universal basic income.

00:37:33.240 –> 00:37:41.940
Jason Mefford: Other things like that are coming up from a political scene as well, so and I know I could keep going on and talk to you for two or three hours about this and geek out but.

00:37:42.450 –> 00:37:48.510
Jason Mefford: we’re gonna have to kind of wrap it up a little bit for the podcasters this week, but you know, probably need to have you back again but.

00:37:49.050 –> 00:37:57.060
Jason Mefford: You know I mean really, really interesting stuff Greg because, like you said, I mean that’s why, when I met you and it’s like we’re.

00:37:57.450 –> 00:38:06.030
Jason Mefford: we’re coming at we’re seeing the same problem and trying to help it but we’re coming from completely different industries, but this this stuff is real.

00:38:06.510 –> 00:38:12.600
Jason Mefford: And it’s and it’s gotten pushed up so much quicker right that, again, I mean maybe if we can do.

00:38:13.290 –> 00:38:20.910
Jason Mefford: kind of a few few takeaways for people here at the end, but I know some of the stuff we talked about is you know look if you’re really technical in one area.

00:38:21.300 –> 00:38:30.870
Jason Mefford: You probably need to branch out right, you need to you need to be technical or at least have a basic understanding and lots of different areas now and kind of create.

00:38:31.470 –> 00:38:40.710
Jason Mefford: Your portfolio, if you will, to help you be successful versus somebody else right because the old days of all you used to work for a big for.

00:38:41.010 –> 00:38:50.700
Jason Mefford: Audit firm so sure i’ll hire you as an auditor now it’s like no, I want to see that you understand agile auditing and I want to see some basic data analytic skills and I want to see some.

00:38:51.030 –> 00:38:58.170
Jason Mefford: Right, maybe there’s five or six different things that you’re going to need to have to succeed, so it seems like that’s one.

00:38:58.620 –> 00:39:06.780
Jason Mefford: That we’ve been talking about start getting some broader exposure some broader certifications other stuff outside of your very.

00:39:07.170 –> 00:39:16.500
Jason Mefford: Narrow niche but what what would be some other things for people to start considering or thinking so that they can not have this tidal wave hit him in the back of the head.

00:39:17.490 –> 00:39:24.420
Greg Hutchins: that’s good point I think the first thing within we started this project called the future professions.

00:39:25.320 –> 00:39:37.170
Greg Hutchins: Looking at, and you can visit future professions calm and the idea is every profession is going to change some now slowly some of our going to change very rapidly.

00:39:37.830 –> 00:39:47.190
Greg Hutchins: Look at your profession, look at your skill set develop a ledger sheet, so to speak up skills, you have or skills, you need to have.

00:39:48.690 –> 00:39:50.640
Greg Hutchins: And if.

00:39:51.960 –> 00:40:10.710
Greg Hutchins: you’re brave enough go to your significant others your friends your boss, and say, I want to update my skills, what do I need to do to get that promotion to get that that salary increase and do a 360 evaluation with your significant other with your bosses in your friends.

00:40:12.000 –> 00:40:20.580
Greg Hutchins: Because change is going to happen in every profession understand what’s going to happen and jump in front of that curve that change curve.

00:40:21.780 –> 00:40:27.660
Greg Hutchins: Because, at the end of the day I don’t think your employer is going to look out for you, you have to look out for yourself.

00:40:28.860 –> 00:40:33.420
Jason Mefford: that’s probably the biggest takeaway is you you’ve got to take care of yourself.

00:40:33.660 –> 00:40:38.790
Jason Mefford: Yes, right and that’s why I think I mean we talked about you know, like that Columbia program you’re talking about.

00:40:38.850 –> 00:40:39.030

00:40:40.410 –> 00:41:00.690
Jason Mefford: yeah 400 grand it’s gonna take you a lot of years to get that back, but you know, especially some of these certification things that are out there, you know, again, would you invest 2000 $5,000 if it means that your next job you get a 1020 $30,000 a year raise right.

00:41:00.750 –> 00:41:01.320
Greg Hutchins: slowly.

00:41:01.380 –> 00:41:08.100
Jason Mefford: And so again you’ve got to start looking at yourself, you know we’ve been talking for a long time about the knowledge economy.

00:41:08.880 –> 00:41:20.160
Jason Mefford: But if you’re your best asset, how much capital improvement are you doing in your asset right are you just letting the factory rest away.

00:41:20.640 –> 00:41:37.410
Jason Mefford: Or you actually investing and getting more knowledge getting more certifications getting other stuff that’s going to help you, and it does translate really fairly quickly into significant bump in in salary for people.

00:41:37.830 –> 00:41:49.710
Greg Hutchins: Absolutely Jason think of it this way things are changing well until it and certainly complex complexity and ambiguity fuca and standing still in a moving stream means you’re going backwards.

00:41:50.760 –> 00:42:08.010
Greg Hutchins: You got to basically go with a stream actually get in front of everything see where the rocks are and think of it as sort of a of individual risk analysis, these are all the objectives you want to get to look at all the hindrances obstacles or.

00:42:09.900 –> 00:42:11.340
Greg Hutchins: or things that are in your way.

00:42:13.110 –> 00:42:24.150
Greg Hutchins: And then do a risk analysis with your career it’s tough it’s very, very hard, especially if you bring other people like your significant other or your boss into that loop.

00:42:25.230 –> 00:42:41.040
Greg Hutchins: But you’re essentially investing in yourself your brand equity and think of it as sort of a capital expenditure you’re not going to be able to increase production or increase your personal out, but unless you invest in yourself that’s The bottom line.

00:42:42.090 –> 00:42:43.320
Jason Mefford: Well, it is and.

00:42:44.730 –> 00:42:51.510
Jason Mefford: I like I like how you use that you know so everybody go out start doing an individual risk assessment on your career.

00:42:51.930 –> 00:42:59.430
Jason Mefford: You know, but again don’t just don’t just look at what is it going to take me to invest do it like you would do an Roi calculation for your business right hey Ryan.

00:42:59.670 –> 00:43:21.540
Jason Mefford: If I invest $5,000 in a couple months right to get some new certification to learn to take a coding class or whatever it is, what is that going to mean for me on the reward side, and if the answer is hey I can I can you know move laterally or I can I can move to a different profession.

00:43:22.620 –> 00:43:26.250
Jason Mefford: You know and earn 2040 50,000 a year more.

00:43:26.610 –> 00:43:28.530
Jason Mefford: And that’s realistic for a lot of people.

00:43:28.920 –> 00:43:33.930
Jason Mefford: I mean there’s there’s certain career bumps that when you move it’s like 50 grand phones.

00:43:34.350 –> 00:43:41.310
Jason Mefford: And i’ll tell you 50 grand a year in your pocket that’s a big difference in lifestyle for most people.

00:43:41.640 –> 00:43:44.190
Greg Hutchins: You have to be willing to do that capital.

00:43:44.610 –> 00:43:50.160
Jason Mefford: Expenditure investment, as you said, up front you’re not going to get the 50 and let’s just spend the two or five.

00:43:50.730 –> 00:43:58.470
Greg Hutchins: that’s exactly right and that’s the cost of certification yeah the differences in said again that certification every five years.

00:43:58.860 –> 00:44:08.640
Greg Hutchins: or getting PDA ages or professional development hours you’re going to be doing that you’re really not quarterly that’s the big difference now you’ve got to look out for number one.

00:44:11.580 –> 00:44:15.000
Jason Mefford: Great stuff Greg great stuff, thank you for coming on.

00:44:15.240 –> 00:44:16.470
Greg Hutchins: Thank you appreciate it.

00:44:16.770 –> 00:44:17.400
Jason Mefford: I love.

00:44:18.420 –> 00:44:24.510
Jason Mefford: talking to you about this because, again, I mean i’ve I mean like you said, I mean it’s one of the reasons why I do what I do is.

00:44:24.960 –> 00:44:33.900
Jason Mefford: i’ve been seeing this coming for a while and I don’t want people to get you know slapped in the back of the head when the tidal wave comes I want you to already have your boat.

00:44:35.370 –> 00:44:44.760
Jason Mefford: In the water paddling you know before this ends up coming and like you said, I think you know from all the stuff that we’ve talked about it’s just coming quicker.

00:44:45.840 –> 00:45:01.020
Jason Mefford: than we’ve been anticipated before so do what you can start thinking about it find those gaps and actually do something so that you can jump in front of the curve, instead of getting slammed by the curve when it comes.

00:45:01.950 –> 00:45:19.590
Greg Hutchins: So let me finish with one metaphor Jason instead of being in a rowboat you want to be in a fast speedy cigarette boat with 1000 horsepower in the back, and I think your certifications are going to help people get to where they want to be go yeah.

00:45:20.520 –> 00:45:31.770
Jason Mefford: yeah thanks I usually I tend to go back to the old arcade so but you’re right, it should be one of those thousand thousand horsepower and jet jet boats that you’re going not even just just even a robo.

00:45:32.160 –> 00:45:36.480
Jason Mefford: Because when people are getting in the robot you want to be getting in the speedboat so.

00:45:37.680 –> 00:45:41.490
Greg Hutchins: yeah yeah it’s the same idea same metaphor Hello.

00:45:41.520 –> 00:45:43.440
Greg Hutchins: Football horses of the back, you know.

00:45:45.270 –> 00:45:48.630
Jason Mefford: it’s better to have the horses in the back, instead of the horses in the front with the.

00:45:48.630 –> 00:45:49.680
Jason Mefford: buggy to I guess.

00:45:52.350 –> 00:45:56.340
Greg Hutchins: i’ve been in both places Jason I rather have a bit the back pushes me see.

00:45:58.140 –> 00:46:06.150
Jason Mefford: it’s better in the back well Greg thanks again for taking time today and, like you said, I mean you made you made reference to the future of professions.com.

00:46:06.570 –> 00:46:12.990
Jason Mefford: You know, as a website where you guys have some stuff out there that you’ve been doing so again another thing you can do this week go check it out.

00:46:13.200 –> 00:46:17.400
Jason Mefford: I mean go start seeing again don’t don’t take my word for it don’t take greg’s word for it.

00:46:17.910 –> 00:46:30.780
Jason Mefford: Even just do a couple of Google searches and you’re going to realize holy shit these guys are actually talking about something that’s really happening, but whatever you do just start doing something don’t stand in that moving stream and get left behind.

00:46:31.350 –> 00:46:32.430
Greg Hutchins: Can I plug my book.

00:46:32.850 –> 00:46:37.710
Jason Mefford: You can yeah Oh, because that is you’re still working on it, this is, this is one just came out.

00:46:37.920 –> 00:46:42.330
Greg Hutchins: it’s the one that just came out so working it’s disruption rules covert edition.

00:46:44.010 –> 00:47:00.060
Greg Hutchins: came out about three weeks ago check it out on Amazon it’s fairly cheap reviews are fives fortunately knock on was, I know I can like forehead and jason’s getting his copy this afternoon, so, hopefully, you can even give him give a review online.

00:47:00.360 –> 00:47:12.750
Jason Mefford: or no, I will I made yet and yeah well we’ll plan to include links to both of these in the show notes down below as well, so again if you’re a listener that usually doesn’t look at the show notes, if you want him there down below in the show notes.

00:47:13.020 –> 00:47:24.390
Jason Mefford: If he if you don’t see him in the podcast player check my website because there’ll be on the blog post down below as well, so a couple of good resources things for you to actually do this week so go out and do them.

00:47:25.050 –> 00:47:26.850
Greg Hutchins: Absolutely and we’ll.

00:47:27.510 –> 00:47:31.620
Jason Mefford: we’ll catch y’all on the next episode of jamming with Jason have a great rest of your week.

00:47:32.130 –> 00:47:34.980
Greg Hutchins: hey terrific thanks a lot for having us take care bye bye.

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