There are 4 different steps to learning. The problem is most people stop after the first or second step, never really learning. Just going through the motions and the knowledge is lost. In this #fireandearthpodcast we talk all things learning.

Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/

To learn you need a combination of knowledge, skills, abilities, and experience. We also discuss the four stages of learning as it relates to conscious vs. unconscious, and competence vs. incompetence.

Get ready to unlock your learning potential.

The Fire and Earth Podcast gives you practical advice and keys to unlocking your potential in life and business, hosted by Dr. Kathy Gruver and Jason Mefford. Real, raw and unscripted.

Transcript

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Kathy Gruver: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Kathy River.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason Medford Hey everybody. I don’t know why I did a little weird.

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Jason Mefford: Voice that time, I don’t know, it’s

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Jason Mefford: A little bit more animated

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They said,

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Jason Mefford: Okay.

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Jason Mefford: All right, everybody, hopefully that made you laugh. And that was, that was a good it’s always it’s good to laugh. It’s good to laugh. Yes.

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Jason Mefford: But today, we’re not going to talk about. Laughter But we’re going to talk about another L Word, which is Lyme.

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Disease.

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Jason Mefford: Know,

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Kathy Gruver: And then tell. Oh, lemon cello.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, I love him a cello.

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Jason Mefford: Oh, no.

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Kathy Gruver: limericks. Oh, there was a young no

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Jason Mefford: No.

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Jason Mefford: We’re going to talk about learning. Okay. And, I mean, the reason for this is, this is one of my passions is lifelong learning and

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Jason Mefford: So, I mean, I own to training companies for a reason, right, because I like to help people learn and it just surprises me how little were taught about how to learn

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Jason Mefford: In fact, unfortunately, most of the schools, you know, they, they do what they can, but we’re usually taught to memorize things

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Jason Mefford: And that’s really the worst way and the lowest form of learning. And so we thought it’d be fun to just talk a little bit about learning today.

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Jason Mefford: Because there’s actually at least kind of the way I usually talk about kind of four things you have to do to actually learn something.

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Jason Mefford: And so again, even though you’re, you’re doing a basic part of learning by listening to this podcast. If all you do is listen to it. You didn’t really quote unquote learn it.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, so

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Kathy Gruver: Well, and the other thing that we have to remember. And I know we’ve talked about this is how people learn is it visual, auditory or kinesthetic

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Kathy Gruver: You put on an audiobook, you might as well play white noise. I’m not going to get anything out of that unless I’m really trying hard

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Kathy Gruver: And it’s funny, my boyfriend was trying to explain something to me. And he was just talking

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Kathy Gruver: And I finally said it’s not, you know, can you show me what you’re talking about. And so we were on a hike. And so we started we had rocks.

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Kathy Gruver: And he showed me what he meant the kinesthetic visual of if this does that then this comes forward we’re playing with strategic almost like risk sort of game online.

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Kathy Gruver: And it took him doing rocks.

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Kathy Gruver: To show me how this was working before I would actually grasp or rock what he was saying. So make sure as a side note, make sure you’re really tapping into your type of learning, it’ll make it easier for you.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and because you were use the word. Show me. I’m guessing that you’re predominantly a visual learner.

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Kathy Gruver: Is what kind of static. Yep.

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Kathy Gruver: Talking it made too many words, I’m not getting the

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Kathy Gruver: Word out right so even

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Jason Mefford: So here we’ll throw it will throw in a little tip here for everybody at the beginning. Right. Cuz, cuz like Kathy said it’s important

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Jason Mefford: That you that you kind of realize we all learn through all three of those ways right and so you can remember vac VA K visual, auditory kinesthetic vac right

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Jason Mefford: But, but there’s even, even though you may be learning through one of the means that’s not as not as predominant for you. So let’s take, let’s take that example of the audio book.

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Jason Mefford: As you’re listening to the audio book if you focus your attention on the book and try to actually visualize a little bit of what’s going on in the book, even just in your mind, even if your eyes aren’t closed, you’re not seeing like, you know, bright pictures of stuff happening.

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Kathy Gruver: Which is good because I tend to listen to him in the car so

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, don’t close your eyes in the car.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, no. That’d be but but even some little visualization of the things that are going on.

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Jason Mefford: You know, like one example I use is with the word pop popery

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Jason Mefford: Right. And if you if you visualize a pot pouring as you hear the word potpourri. It helps you to remember it better.

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Kathy Gruver: In fact, it actually helps you

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Jason Mefford: Remember how to spell the word to because

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Jason Mefford: It’s pot.

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Kathy Gruver: That’s true.

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Or

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Jason Mefford: RI is how you spell it pot poor RI

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Jason Mefford: Anyway,

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Kathy Gruver: One so funny, because when you say pot popery I smell like I can smell what that potpourri would be smell like if it was boiling on the stove. So it’s so interesting the way we

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Jason Mefford: Let’s answer that’s why most of the people talk about back

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Jason Mefford: visual, auditory kinesthetic

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Which again three of the five senses when you bring in the other senses like smell.

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Jason Mefford: And in touch.

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Jason Mefford: You know as or kinesthetic touch just kind of this that you know but but

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Jason Mefford: It’s, it’s the, the more of your senses that you can bring into your learning, the more you’re actually going to learn. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: And this was, I believe, ends you talked about school they have you just memorize things by rote so much of learning in school was just

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Kathy Gruver: Auditory especially something like math. I still to this day cannot do word problems. I don’t want to get on a train. I don’t want to know what it crosses in Baltimore. And how many times it takes to get there and

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Kathy Gruver: Just terrifies the crap out of me.

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Kathy Gruver: Why, why is this my job, but they don’t have schedules. I don’t understand trains anyway.

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Kathy Gruver: They would just talk about it, you know, this conceptual stuff that they would just talk about and my brains going disconnect disconnect disconnect

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Kathy Gruver: If you showed me what you were talking about, then I could get that better. You know, it was just, it was a weird situation from a trying to learn

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Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s kind of funny because it’s um

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Jason Mefford: There’s there’s little tips and tricks that you can learn to, you know, instead of. So for example, let’s let’s take the rote memorization. Right.

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Jason Mefford: Usually in school, they would tell you, you know, when did Columbus, you know, come to America. Well, he came in 14 do you need to remember 1492 1492 1492 write it down 1492 1492

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Jason Mefford: And after a while after, after long enough, you can probably get it right, but it’s it’s easier to actually do some little learning hacks like this one, Columbus sailed the ocean blue

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Or

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Jason Mefford: Two. Okay. You knew that, too. Right, that’s it’s that’s a much easier way to remember the 1492 because you’re bringing in a rhyming, or you’re kind of creating a little song out of that.

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Jason Mefford: Will help you now to remember. So all you have to do is Christopher Columbus boom you know sailed the ocean blue and 1400 and 92 right we got the rhymes on the

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Kathy Gruver: But here’s my question.

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Kathy Gruver: Who cares.

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Jason Mefford: About Columbus and 14

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Kathy Gruver: The stuff that I have. I’ve not had to use that at all today.

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Kathy Gruver: No one today was like Kathy.

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Jason Mefford: When did Columbus come to America.

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Kathy Gruver: Because he wasn’t the whole debate about that I get into the politics that but i mean it’s like the things that they were having us learn have no bearing on my life today.

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Kathy Gruver: You didn’t teach us how to balance a checkbook, do your taxes communicate with your spouse.

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Kathy Gruver: Discuss your needs have good strong psychology have good critical thinking they had us memorize these stupid things that have no bearing on our lives today, unless somebody stops you on the street.

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Kathy Gruver: During a game show and tries to make you look stupid because you don’t remember when Columbus sailed the ocean blue, you know, so it’s like learning to me has to be customized well we’ve got off. I have anyway learning

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Kathy Gruver: To customize to who we are and what we need to function in life. Well, I’m going to be a historian or a

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Kathy Gruver: Sales boat.

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Jason Mefford: Where am I going with sales but

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Kathy Gruver: A maritime person that’s what it is.

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Kathy Gruver: That I need to know when Columbus a sailing.

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Kathy Gruver: But other than that, you know, we’re told to memorize these things that are taking up space in our brains. They don’t actually have bearing on real life, which always confused me as a kid. And I kind of rebelled against that I think

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Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s why because because to me it goes along with these four things I’m going to talk about here, right.

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Kathy Gruver: Go ahead.

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Jason Mefford: We’re gonna, we’re going to, where do we get to this because actually it’s, it’s, you know, interesting what you said so. So when you think about

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Jason Mefford: Learning in general there’s really kind of three things that you need to have for you to want to learn to begin with. Okay.

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Jason Mefford: And then once these things are kind of in place where you have these skills. Then if you think about the Learning Path process. There’s really kind of four steps that you would go through so

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Jason Mefford: But before you have to have motivation.

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Jason Mefford: Mindset and methods to help you with learning, right. So again, if you’re not motivated to learn when Columbus came to America.

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Jason Mefford: It’s going to be really difficult for you to remember that, right, because again it doesn’t motivate you. There’s nothing. Along with that, you know, the mindset goes into again some of the things around you know

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Jason Mefford: Literally the, the way you kind of set your mindset when you are learning

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Jason Mefford: Yep, helps you to go directly into your subconscious and then the methods are some of these different skills that you can use to be able to help you remember things like

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Jason Mefford: You know, Columbus sailed the ocean blue and 1400 92 that’s a method to be able to help you learn those things. Now the learning process actually is you’re gathering knowledge.

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Jason Mefford: skills, competencies, or what some people sometimes referred to as abilities and then through experience that is how we actually learn

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Jason Mefford: So if you think about and kind of break down each of those right so even, you know, everybody listening to the podcast today. Right. Well, we’re we’re providing you with knowledge but knowledge by itself doesn’t mean you’ve learned it.

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Jason Mefford: We’ve given you a little skill in our little Columbus example right there’s a skill that you can learn and apply, you know, against the knowledge that you have

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Jason Mefford: But that first part, the knowledge and the skills are usually given to you in school or in the training or whatever you’re doing.

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Jason Mefford: Somebody else’s providing that to you. The last part of it, the abilities or competencies and the experience side of it is your responsibility.

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Jason Mefford: And what I find is most people stop with the first two. That’s why they don’t ever actually learn a lot of stuff because they’re not doing the active part on their side.

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Jason Mefford: So in that abilities or competency area it’s, you know, again, part of that is kind of the integration, it’s looking at the knowledge, it’s looking at the skills that you create it and applying it to yourself. Right.

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Jason Mefford: It’s integrating it it’s figuring out based on this knowledge and the skills that I’ve that I’ve gathered, how can I now incorporate that into my life to develop competencies

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Jason Mefford: Around those knowledge and skills. Right. It’s also some of the reflection, you know, because again, sometimes when you read or hear something. It’s that time of reflection.

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Jason Mefford: When things kind of hit you, you get those thunder bolt, lightning light bulb. Whatever you call them kind of ideas that come in, that’s part of your integrating those abilities or competencies. But if you don’t practice it.

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Jason Mefford: And actually have experience trying to take that knowledge those skills and those competencies or abilities that you developed and actually practice it and you’re not going to fully learn it either. So you’ve got to go through the whole process.

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Kathy Gruver: Well, and it’s interesting when I was growing up, I was in dance class and you know we would learn these ballet skills, where he would tell us the name of it in French, which we had to memorize

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Kathy Gruver: We had to do the scale over and over and over again till that it was just by rote. I know, I still know what a petite Buckmaster Dakota PA is I know how to do that. It’s ingrained

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Jason Mefford: LITTLE SOMETHING, BUT I DON’T WANT THE REST OF THE WORDS me, but my

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Kathy Gruver: Small beats with the foot on the leg. Keep up mustered up the fact that I just rolled out off. There is something else.

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Kathy Gruver: But I remember, there would be times in the acrobatics class where it was, he would show us how to do the skill, but we had to prove to him. We could do it three times in a row.

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Kathy Gruver: Or we couldn’t. Check that off to say we learned it. So there have been times with the trapeze. Now, it’s like, I’ll do a skill and I was like, Yeah, you got it. And I’m like,

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Jason Mefford: No, I didn’t get it yet.

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Kathy Gruver: If I can’t. That was a fluke. If I can’t do it 10 times in a row. I don’t got it. And now that we’re not doing any trapeze because of, you know, having to stay at home.

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Kathy Gruver: Who knows where my skill level is I’m going to have to relearn and retrain my body to do a lot of that stuff. Just like math. Oh god, you know, back to the math. It’s like, I tried to figure out a percentage of the other day.

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Kathy Gruver: What do you think stuffers going that one over that one.

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Kathy Gruver: Finally, Google how to do a percentage again because I couldn’t remember how to do it. I don’t use that every day. You know, so it is you’re

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Kathy Gruver: You’re right. It’s about that competency and that experience and doing those things now with something like driving. We don’t have to think about how to do that. We just automatically it’s become automatic for us. So what are those four ways

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Jason Mefford: There’s actually four different ways that you can think about this or kind of stages that people go through as well.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, I got you, got you got them. You want to go through and then

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Kathy Gruver: Sure, so first we have unconscious in competence, you are unaware of the skill and your lack of proficiency. You don’t even know the trapeze exists.

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Kathy Gruver: Then we have conscious in competence, where you’re aware of the skill, but you’re not yet proficient. God, I wish I could do that layout. I’m going to try that sometime

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Kathy Gruver: Then we have conscious competence, where you’re able to use the skill, but only with effort. So with every swing. I’m going. Okay, I have to point my toes. I have to get my hips up, I have to, you’re doing it right. But you’re having to think through it.

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Kathy Gruver: Unconscious competence. This is awesome. I love when we get to this point. That’s where you’re performing a skill and it becomes automatic. Cathy throw a layout. Okay, and you just do it without

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Jason Mefford: Used to well and you can tell because that’s that’s the difference. You know, again, between people that have actually mastered something is is when you’re in that unconscious competence side of it you know when when a batter goes up to the plate.

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Jason Mefford: And especially a major league baseball, by the time that the pitcher releases the ball, it’s less than one second before it crosses the plate because this thing’s going anywhere between about 80 and 100 miles an hour.

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Jason Mefford: The batter doesn’t have time to consciously think on what to do. Right. And so again, that’s why they’ve gotten to this conscious

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Jason Mefford: You know, unconscious competence to where their body just reacts as it needs to, because in a split second their subconscious actually sees the ball.

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Jason Mefford: Where the pictures hand releases and everything else for them to be able to do that now that comes from sometimes years

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Jason Mefford: Of learning. But again, it’s, it’s a way for us as we’re looking at some of those, you know, knowledge and skills that we’re developing and through our experience, we improve our competency level.

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Jason Mefford: And that’s what those four phases really talk you through

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Kathy Gruver: And what’s so difficult once you reach unconscious competence is trying to teach that to someone else.

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Kathy Gruver: Because you just do it so naturally

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Kathy Gruver: I mean, how do you walk

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Kathy Gruver: If you

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Kathy Gruver: Explain to somebody

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Kathy Gruver: How do you walk because it’s not about putting one foot in front of the other. That’s not what it is, but to try to then break that down as an instructor, especially for something physical like a trapeze trick.

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Kathy Gruver: And it’s one of the things I really try to do is I try to break things down. So specifically,

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Kathy Gruver: Hey, can you grab me the lettuce. It’s on the bottom shelf to the left of the eggs like I specifically do that as an exercise because it trains me to teach better

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Kathy Gruver: And to coach better when I have the ability to step out of that unconscious competence and break it down for somebody else to do. So there are times where I’m overly not overly simple but overly explanatory

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Jason Mefford: Word.

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Kathy Gruver: In my instructions to people because it’s a practice for me to have how to explain things, you know,

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Jason Mefford: To other people

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Kathy Gruver: I have a funny story.

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Kathy Gruver: My show

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Kathy Gruver: I will. My father was incredibly good at teaching people

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Kathy Gruver: Whether it was bowling, or how to throw a football or he was very specific and his directions. So when I was a little kid, he was doing something outside and he needed me to turn the water on

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Kathy Gruver: So he said, Kathy, can you go downstairs go behind the furnace, because that wasn’t a scary thing for a kid.

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Kathy Gruver: Go behind the furnace and it hip level there’s a knob, turn it to the left, turn the water on very specific instruction. Great. Go down the stairs behind the furnace behind the furnace behind the furnace knob hip level, turn it

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Kathy Gruver: Nothing happens, tick, tick, tick behind the first backup service. He goes, Why didn’t you did you do it. And I said, Yeah, I turned the water on, like you said, Nothing happened. I did it. I knew I did it right the way he explained it. He’s like, okay, I’ll go check comes downstairs.

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Kathy Gruver: Guess where his hip level is compared to my little

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Kathy Gruver: I emptied the entire water here into the basement.

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Kathy Gruver: Because he didn’t take into account that when he said hip level. That was my head level my hip level was the low one where the hot water heater was

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Kathy Gruver: I am to the entire hot water heater into the basement.

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Jason Mefford: Good lesson good lesson. Yeah. But yeah, you know, even and even as you know you did what he was asking you to do.

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Jason Mefford: So, so again, a little hack on learning. Like we talked before about, think back on the back, visual, auditory kinesthetic right

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Jason Mefford: And I keep doing that on purpose. Folks, because you’re going to remember it better vac the AK Chungking down as another way to try to learn. It’s another skill set that we can talk about later. Maybe, but

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Jason Mefford: But, you know, as he was giving you those instructions because you’re a visual person probably in your mind. You weren’t just trying to memorize what he was saying.

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Jason Mefford: But as he’s giving you those directions. He said, Cathy go down the stairs in your mind you’re thinking of yourself walking down the stairs. Go to the furnace. You know where the furnace is you’re visualizing the furnace. Yep.

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Jason Mefford: Totally, you know, and the more that he does that you’re actually processing that visually and it’s actually helping you to learn and be able to go and do what it is that you needed to do.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep. And do you have any

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Kathy Gruver: Idea Jason and maybe we don’t. This is something we could look up

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Kathy Gruver: Where we get whether we’re visual, auditory or kinesthetic because my father was an incredibly visual kinesthetic person and he taught me pretty much how to do everything. Do we shoot out of the womb learning a certain way or does that come from, how we’re taught by our primary caregivers.

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Jason Mefford: I don’t know the exact on it, there’s probably some nature and some nurture side of it.

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Jason Mefford: Probably more of it is nature than nurture. But, but what we can do as well as we can learn and we can adapt.

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Jason Mefford: As well.

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Jason Mefford: I mean, this is another thing that we’ve learned, you know, the last 20 years is the brain. People that your brain stopped developing at about eight years old. Yeah, and that’s just bullshit or hey, your brain is

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Jason Mefford: very resilient, it does change you can train

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Jason Mefford: It, you can do all these kind of things are oh plasticity.

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Jason Mefford: Neuro plasticity and, you know, but with it, usually people are have a predominant way that they choose to learn, even though. Like I said, we all use all of them. In fact, we use smell.

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Kathy Gruver: As well.

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Jason Mefford: Even though people don’t normally talk about that in fact because use it. That’s more of a, you know, corporate or school environment and

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Jason Mefford: People aren’t pulling out, you know, cinnamon sticks and doing other stuff at school, necessarily, but but that is another way that we learn as well.

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Jason Mefford: There are some, you know, if usually most people when you kind of talk to them and you see the words that they’re using. You can kind of tell what your predominant learning styles are. Yeah. You know, like you said, you said, well, show me how it works.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, if somebody says Show me how you show me.

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Jason Mefford: Right, if somebody says, Tell me, okay, they’re probably auditory. Yeah, right. And so again we can start to learn kind of predominantly what we are and then use that in in how we’re learning as well.

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Jason Mefford: But you can like I said you can use all up and even, even though your visual

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Jason Mefford: If you’re listening to audio.

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Jason Mefford: visualizing a little bit about what you’re being told helps you still kind of remember that better than if you were to just sit there and try to remember and memorize what’s being said

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Kathy Gruver: Right, absolutely. Well, this is one of the reasons I like watching CNN, other than my completely unnatural crush on Anderson Cooper.

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Kathy Gruver: Because I listened to the guests.

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Kathy Gruver: And they they typically start their sentences, one of two ways. There’ll be asked a question and the personal gut look

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Kathy Gruver: Blah, blah, blah. Or they’ll say, Listen, I hear you, you know, or I feel ya I, you know, it’s pretty rare that I say I hear you, because that’s an auditory language and

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Kathy Gruver: The other thing is if you have the ability to listen to, to notice to observe what the other person does, you can match their communication style and you’re gonna get your message across better. That’s a whole you know

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Kathy Gruver: NLP thing is matching that person’s speaking style so that you are learning style. So you get your point across better

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Kathy Gruver: I think we’ve once again.

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Jason Mefford: Well, through

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Kathy Gruver: Hey, you know what I learned.

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Kathy Gruver: Today is Columbus sailed the ocean blue and 1400 and 92

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Jason Mefford: He did. Well, you did before.

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Kathy Gruver: So today.

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Kathy Gruver: And everything I do.

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Kathy Gruver: I see. Here’s what’s funny, I couldn’t remember every joke I’ve ever been told, I have a massive database of jokes.

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Jason Mefford: Because it’s important to you.

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Kathy Gruver: But I can’t remember what I did.

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Jason Mefford: THAT’S ALL RIGHT, WE NEED JOKES more than what you did 20 minutes ago.

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Kathy Gruver: I could have done something bad when I was with you 20 minutes ago. So

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Jason Mefford: We were doing a podcast 20 minutes go

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Jason Mefford: You know what you’re doing 20 minutes. I know.

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Kathy Gruver: The sun is just following me no matter where I go. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Yep, yep, yep.

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Jason Mefford: Thank you for coming down now.

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Jason Mefford: Alright, so everybody

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Jason Mefford: You know so little, little recap again, you know, if you really want to learn stuff. It’s more than just getting the knowledge from reading

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Jason Mefford: Or learning a couple of skills, you actually have to integrate these things do your part of it by

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Jason Mefford: You know, trying to develop those abilities and competencies kind of those for that we went through as you kind of move up with that.

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Jason Mefford: And that comes through experience. So if you really want to learn stuff you actually got to do your part.

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Jason Mefford: But when you do, then you’ll actually learn it. And then when some crazy guy on a podcast says, When did Columbus, you know, come to America, you’re going to remember 1492 because of that silly little song that we were both taught as children in school.

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Kathy Gruver: Yes.

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Kathy Gruver: That’s, that’s all I gotta say about that. Yes, and I love learning. I’m a lifetime learner as well. So the more I can know the more it not only benefits me and keeps my brain going, but it also helps other people because we can pass on our knowledge to the people around us. So go forth

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Kathy Gruver: Learn today. Learn something new.

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Jason Mefford: And share it because, again, like you, like you said, they’re actually sharing and teaching other people what you have learned is one of the best ways to actually remember

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, and learn and learn yourself.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely. Cool. This has been a fabulous when I love this. I’m going to go learn something new.

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Kathy Gruver: I’m Kathy gruver I can be reached a category where calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out learn. Have a great week and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and our podcast. So, yeah.

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Yeah.

In this #fireandearthpodcast episode we are joined by #marketing strategist Carla Cherry to discuss marketing and how to pivot your business.

The COVID pandemic has caused many #entrepreneurs to re-assess their businesses and see if it’s time to pivot or time to hone their marketing to attract their perfect clients. Here are a few sound bites from the episode you want to take away: Get courage and make money. What problem are you solving? Get rid of the ego and just solve the problem. Have the confidence and market for qualified leads – niche down for specific people.

Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/ http://fireandearthpodcast.com/ or wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts.

Learn more and connect with Carla at: https://www.cherryproductions.co/ … and don’t forget to ask for your free consultation.

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason Medford

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Kathy Gruver: And I’m Kathy gruver and we are so excited to have another amazing fabulous guest on the show today. I would love to introduce you to Carla cherry.

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Jason Mefford: Hey, Carla.

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carla cherry: Thank you so much for having me.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely. Once you tell everybody a little bit about who you are, what you do and what’s happening in your world right now.

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carla cherry: Absolutely. So thank you so much for having me, both of you. I’m really honored to be here.

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carla cherry: I am I call myself a marketing strategist and a virtual agency. And what that means is

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carla cherry: People pull me in one on one, and look at their business and and help them figure out, you know,

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carla cherry: Where the things that are not working, what their goals and visions, what their goals are, what their visions are and where the roadblocks are and we deal with things like you know

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carla cherry: Are you talking to your target client correctly. Are you packaging yourself correctly. How are you selling, are you selling virtually if you’re not, let’s get you there.

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carla cherry: And that’s, that’s what I do and I’m offering people right now. A CHANCE TO, YOU KNOW FIX HER BUSINESS pivot their business, figure out what to sell as well as

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carla cherry: I’m helping them set up a sales funnel for that. So it’s a misconception right now that you can’t make money, even in this crazy climate that we’re in and I’m here to, you know, prove that. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Well, because I think, I think that’s important that you bring that up that it’s a miss conception

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Jason Mefford: Right. Because, because a lot of people think, oh, the economy’s just so bad, or, you know, everybody so scared they’re not doing anything I have friends that are still having multimillion dollar launches.

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Jason Mefford: In the middle of this. So it’s like it’s a misconception. It’s just, we’ve got to kind of change what we’re doing and how we’re kind of going about it. Right.

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carla cherry: Absolutely, absolutely. And you have to. It takes a little bit of courage it takes courage, everybody’s sort of been in their comfort zone. We’ve all been shaken out of our comfort zone in many ways right now.

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carla cherry: And you gotta, you gotta roll with it. And that’s part of being an entrepreneur. Yeah. You know, you’ve got to just roll with it.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, but also there’s this is such a huge opportunity and I know in my practice. Specifically, I mean, still so much of my work was massage

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Kathy Gruver: And I’ve been telling people for ages. You know, I want to step away from the massage and I want to do more coaching and I want to do more hypnosis. But when you’re booked solid with massage clients.

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Kathy Gruver: How do you turn down guaranteed paid work in hopes that someone fills that slot with hypnosis. I’ve had some couple people go

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Kathy Gruver: Well, you know, let’s just take every Tuesday off. Okay. But what if the hypnosis person can do Tuesday. What if they want to do. Thursday, you know. And this, of course, I can’t be doing massage. During this time, so

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Kathy Gruver: It gave me this beautiful opportunity to go. I better get some coaching and hypnosis clients and

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Kathy Gruver: I have it just putting that out there.

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Kathy Gruver: People that heard my talks three and four years ago, out of the blue, contact me and go, you know what I need help right now and I immediately thought of you. You’re the one to help me. And I’m like, okay, so it’s taking the opportunity in these times.

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Kathy Gruver: And it’s also having some balls to do it. Yeah. So how do you grow those balls. Well,

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carla cherry: That’s a great question, for what I what I tell clients is really, you have to take out all the things do you do all you know and if you’re going, you know, going to focus on hypnosis.

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carla cherry: Then put it on paper digital paper regular paper and look at all the things that you do and all the value that you add and then the next step for me is about messaging. So it’s how you pitch yourself and how you present yourself in the messaging on your website.

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carla cherry: Because

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carla cherry: It’s true that the world will you know take you at your word, how you present yourself is how people are going to take you. So if you learn how to speak confidently about what you do and put that into the words.

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carla cherry: Whether it’s pitch pitch or written messaging, then the world will say, Okay, that’s what that’s what you do. So you were. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s so funny that you say that because when people now say, what do you do, I stopped mentioning massage. Awesome.

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Kathy Gruver: Um, I don’t say I say I’m a coach, I’m a hypnotherapist on the most international speaker and author. That’s what I tell people now.

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carla cherry: And they believe you, because that’s

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Kathy Gruver: Right, yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s interesting because you know in our because Kathy and I are both speakers and I’ve done training for a long time. I, I started pivoting several years ago to online because I I knew this was the future. And I wanted to quit traveling

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Jason Mefford: Right, yeah. And you know, Kathy has been saying you know 40 weeks on the on the road is like too much. I didn’t want a second divorce, so

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Kathy Gruver: That’s a dream come true for me. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: So, but it was

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Jason Mefford: Okay.

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Jason Mefford: We talked about this different episodes. All right. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: But the

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Jason Mefford: But so, so both of us, I guess, kind of, you know, we’re already planning or already had had thought about this, but I know a lot of our friends.

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Jason Mefford: That are traditional speakers or people that I know that are traditional in person seminar trainer a ball. This really hit, um, you know, smack him upside the head and you know you talked about putting it down on paper, I guess.

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Jason Mefford: What are some suggestions you have for people that that maybe are still in that Holy shit. I can’t believe this is happening phase.

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Jason Mefford: You know of, well, how do you start putting something down on paper. Now that maybe is totally different than what

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Jason Mefford: You’d been envisioning what you’ve been trying to manifest and now you’ve got to pivot and a lot of people are holding on to that, like, no you know I gotta do this.

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Jason Mefford: What, what are some ways that you can help your clients get through some of that because I’m sure there’s still people out there struggling

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carla cherry: Absolutely. So first of all, just

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carla cherry: Get courage, right. Like, do you want to make money, or do you not want to make money. Ask yourself that. I mean, that is a big motivator for a lot of people like to sit back and just collect unemployment checks.

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carla cherry: You know, or do you want to go forward and also get ahead of the curve because everybody eventually it’s going to be virtual so if you don’t do it now.

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carla cherry: You know, people are going to be used to it. Right. That’s one. So just think of that as motivation and, secondly, and pivoting the what I tell my clients is what problem are you solving

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carla cherry: Right, so you stay within your field stay within you know the same theme, but your, think about what problems. What new problems have

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carla cherry: Arrived have are here for your clients. So ask them is the second thing, right, reach out to your clients reach out to your past clients reach out to your favorite current clients and say, Hey, what are you doing right now.

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carla cherry: What do you need right now.

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carla cherry: Right. So, if so, I’ll give you some examples. So I have a client that owns an acting studio right and so she goes, What am I going to do, what am I going to do all my clients are 1918 years old and a lot of them have gone back home to mama.

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carla cherry: Right. They’re not auditioning as much

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carla cherry: And so the previous problem was I need to figure out how to audition better so that can land more roles. Well, they’re all they’ve all gone home and everything’s on pause all productions on pause

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carla cherry: So when we look at, okay, well then

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carla cherry: What other clients do you have. Okay, I have younger clients. So now we’re going to focus on the younger clients because the new problem is actually with the parents. The parents who are crazy. They’re trying to do the school.

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carla cherry: As well as be the babysitter, as well as do their job from home, they need a break. So what you do is you create a you create a product within the same realm, which is still

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carla cherry: an acting class, but make it fun and make it for the advertisements, make it for the younger kids right and so when we started doing that, you know, her friends started asking, what’s your number.

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carla cherry: What’s your number when I tell people that she was doing it. The just my friends there. So what’s your number. I need a number like right now. You know, because that is the immediate new problem. So it’s still acting class.

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carla cherry: But it’s for the new need. So you have to look within your realm, like what is, what is the new name. I’ll give you a second example.

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carla cherry: Of a client that is a site expert stylist. So nobody’s going out, they don’t need to buy the ball gown. What do you do everyone and within Calvin, what are they doing they’re at home organizing their closet.

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carla cherry: So you change the product to how do I organize my closet.

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carla cherry: Um, you know, number one. Number two, as you know, they’re pulling out everybody’s pulling out their old jewelry and old dusting off old shoes and looking at all the stuff in there. Okay, so how do you pair jewelry with

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carla cherry: The outfits that you have like your she’s we created products out of them. The Finnair same clients new problem.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, yeah. Well, what’s interesting, like the one you said about the the acting studio right is that, you know, they’re still providing the same service of of helping to train actors, but there’s a new need from the parents. I mean, it’s almost like you know daycare, if you will, for the

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Jason Mefford: Kids or a break for the parents.

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carla cherry: Right.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m sure parents are much more. I mean, not that they weren’t already. I mean, if you’ve got a kid that you’re trying to get into acting the parents are pretty motivated already

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Jason Mefford: And now it’s like holy shit, I’m going crazy. You’ll take my kid for two hours a day. Yeah, I’m gonna pay you. Right.

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carla cherry: Absolutely. And the courageous part is for second. You may have to, you know, she may have had the thought like, I’m not a babysitter. I’m a serious person training serious actors. Well, that’s the part you have to get over it was that little bit of ego.

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carla cherry: Right.

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carla cherry: A little bit of ego that says this is not who I am, you know, it’s like okay right you’re actually providing a service. So whenever you’re solving a problem for a client whenever you’re you’re hitting that need and you’re solving the problem. That’s when people are going to pay you.

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carla cherry: And they’re going to remember you through this time we’re going to go wow she really came in.

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carla cherry: And she really helped me with this particular problem. I’m now with my own opinion about the same parent has further the older older kids, they may have older kids themselves, they’re going to think if you and the future.

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Kathy Gruver: Well and sales is about building relationships. And that’s one of the things that drives me crazy about LinkedIn is someone will say, hey, I’d love to connect with you. I look at what they do. I go, Yeah, okay.

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Kathy Gruver: I say yes. And then I get a 30 paragraph clearly pre written pitch as to why I should buy their real estate program. And I’m like, I DID YOU KNOW WHAT DO YOU KNOW WHAT I DO YOU KNOW

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Kathy Gruver: So, and my uncle who class. Like, I mean, just like classic salesman. He’s been in sales his entire life. He’s now in his 70s. He told me, the most brilliant thing if they like you, they’ll see you if they trust you. They’ll buy from you.

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carla cherry: Hmm.

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Kathy Gruver: And so this woman who pivoted from teaching, you know, Tina and adult actresses to audition better they’re not working with these kids well these kids are going to keep growing up.

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Kathy Gruver: And I know the I was an actor for years. I know the acting bug. If you start when you’re eight and you enjoy it. She’s going to have clients for life.

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Kathy Gruver: As yeah

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Kathy Gruver: building that relationship, she’s building that trust. And I think we so often forget that you know we dive into a relationship. It’s like meeting someone on the first date and planning the wedding well too premature, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: Or them a little bit first. So, you know, I think there’s that that disconnect, especially now with social media of, oh, I’m connected with them. They’re my best friend. Let’s go do something and it’s like

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Kathy Gruver: Way back up a second build it’s it’s a slow build

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Jason Mefford: Exactly. Well, and I was gonna say, cuz I think Kathy what you were kind of bringing up there, too, that I wanted to ask, Carla about is I think a lot of times we

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Jason Mefford: I’ll just talk for myself and I’m guessing there’s other people like me out there too. Right. So a lot of times you think of marketing kind of in a, you know,

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Jason Mefford: short term basis right we mark it to try to drive sales in the short term.

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Jason Mefford: But you know like Kathy was saying a lot of our businesses, it’s long term, right, I mean, some of these people. You know that I do business with I’ve known for 810 15 years maybe before

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Jason Mefford: Before they actually do business with me or they get promoted up and move to other organizations. And then they’re like, Hey, Jason. I want to work with you now, right, because they can

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Jason Mefford: So I guess you know that that short term versus the long term thing, because again, usually people are like hey you know if I’m gonna

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Jason Mefford: I’m gonna drop 10 grand on marketing, I need to see some sort of a return. Right. I mean, how do you, how do you kind of temper that short term with the long term nature because you can do some really stupid things in the short

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Jason Mefford: Term, but just burn you. I’m guessing marketing wise, right.

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carla cherry: Yeah, absolutely. So short term, long term. I mean, I think for me, when you know it’s more or is it a smaller digital product that you’re selling or is it a higher ticket sales item. If it’s a higher ticket sales item, you know, you got to get on the phone with them, in my opinion, yeah.

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carla cherry: So it’s, it’s about nurturing the relationship, but it’s also about showing social proof. So, you know,

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carla cherry: Two things. If you’re going to get if you’re going to try and saw a higher ticket item one, you got to get do the consultation call and I have a whole thing that I you know move my clients through for sales false right so

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carla cherry: There’s a whole process, you know,

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carla cherry: When people just try to think that hey, we’re going to go to have coffee and somehow we’re going to magically have a sale after that just doesn’t happen like you have to actually, you know, I tell my clients will lead the call.

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carla cherry: Whether it’s on zoom or in the phone or in person before and after this mess that we’re in.

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carla cherry: You know, you have to lead it. And you have to build trust, but you also have to show social proof. So those are the two things with the higher ticket item.

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carla cherry: Is showing. Hey, I get your problem I see it. I understand it. I’ve helped other people through it and here are the people that I’ve helped through right so it’s, I call it like we’re in sort of like a monkey see, monkey do.

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carla cherry: World. If I see that you’ve done it for other people you fix the Zack problem that I’m having and all these people say that you’ve done it, and you did it. Well, then I want to hire you. It doesn’t really matter to me like how

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carla cherry: Long. We’ve known each other. Um, can you fix my problems. Right. I think for the smaller ticket items, you know, you can just put that on your website or on your sales funnel and you know people are quicker.

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carla cherry: It’s kind of like lizard brain like when you buy shoes you don’t buy it. You know, you’re not thinking logically. Where do you buy a nice dress shoes. You’re just like bam, hit the button. You know, so for sale on our website. It’s like how shiny. Can you make it you know any mean

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carla cherry: But for the bigger tiger. I am. You gotta get on the phone.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, that’s a really interesting point and talking about the

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Kathy Gruver: Someone years ago you had they had to do an exercise where to increase. And here’s the I hate sales, I can talk about myself all day.

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Kathy Gruver: And how

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Kathy Gruver: Good. I am at massage or hypnosis or as a speaker or but I can’t sell

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Kathy Gruver: Right, there’s that term, like what Jason was saying, it feels icky.

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Kathy Gruver: But I never thought to like text all of my massage clients. Now, who I can see and say, hey, during this crazy time. Can I help you with hypnosis or coaching.

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Kathy Gruver: Do you know anybody that I can help with hypnosis or coaching, because I can do that virtually and if you refer someone to me, I’ll give you $10 off your next massage when this craziness happened.

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carla cherry: Yeah, I

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Kathy Gruver: Never thought to do that. You go to the people, you know, first the people you already have that relationship with and it’s like until you said that I never even considered texting all of my massage clients and going, do you know anybody that needs coaching right now.

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Jason Mefford: Notes, you’re going to be doing the rest of the day.

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Kathy Gruver: They’re my calendar. Yeah.

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carla cherry: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, everybody would if you, if I’m looking for a therapist. I’m going to ask my friends who worked. That’s the first thing I’m gonna do I’m someone says, oh my god, I have this great there was like you have to go in are like she’s amazing.

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carla cherry: Sure, then I’m I don’t care where she graduated from I’m, you know, some people may I don’t really care about her credentials. Like, did you have DID SHE help you with your problem. You know what I mean.

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carla cherry: And I talked about with my clients like going from resume mode to problem solving mode, you know,

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carla cherry: And also to get really

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carla cherry: confident about the problems that you solve and the results that you’ve gotten for people like if you can really speak with confidence about that.

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carla cherry: It’s important because, you know, if I go to a mechanic and they’re like, I’m if I can fix your car today.

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carla cherry: Sure needy. Then I’m going to leave you know any mean. So it’s the same thing for coaches, like if I go to somebody. They’re like, yep, I can do that gap. I can help you. Absolutely. Done that i’m i’m going to sign up so

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carla cherry: Another thing that I help my clients do is really when you take all of the what you do and your value and you look at is how like when you get a resume redone. You’re like, holy crap I I’m great. You know, like that’s always everybody’s first

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carla cherry: Impression when they really look at their stuff.

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carla cherry: It’s the same thing with this, like if you’re pivoting, you really got to get it out of your brain and look at it and look at all the stuff that you can do. And then you start putting the pieces pieces together the puzzle.

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carla cherry: The messaging, the pitch and all that. And then when you know speak it into existence and tell people, and you know, have

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carla cherry: With your texting you know you can also send emails and put up a full blurb of like what you can do and include the testimonials in the email and then that way they can forward it right to their friends and they don’t even have to say anything because people are lazy.

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Kathy Gruver: Right, absolutely. Well, it’s funny that you say that you have to be able to tell them that you’re good at it.

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Kathy Gruver: My freshman year of college of acting

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Kathy Gruver: We sat in our first day of acting class and we sat in a big circle we introduced ourselves and said, who we weren’t. It was terrifying because I was the best actress in my high school and I suddenly found I was surrounded by. Every Best Actress in every high school in the country.

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Kathy Gruver: A little intimidating and the instructor turn to one of the students and said, Are you a good performer.

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Kathy Gruver: And the girl goes. Um, well, yeah, you know, I think I’m pretty good as you as you’re not hired terms of one of the guys are you a good performer. He goes, hell yeah. And she goes, You just got the job.

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carla cherry: Right.

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Kathy Gruver: He said, I’m telling you right now. I know you aren’t trained the way you think. You shouldn’t be. But if you can’t tell someone you’re you’re good at what you do.

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Kathy Gruver: You said you have to be an asshole about it. But if you can confidently say yes, I’m a good performer, then you shouldn’t be in this class and you’re not going to get hired and that that has stuck with me if I got nothing out of four years of college that stuck with me.

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carla cherry: Absolutely, absolutely, and then be able to write it and pitch it and you know the pitch takes a minute, you know, you have to really find your title, you know,

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carla cherry: When you find your title. There’s such power in words. You know when you find the title that really fits you and you’re really excited about it.

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carla cherry: Psychologically, you step up a level.

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carla cherry: You step into it and you know I tell clients like

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carla cherry: You know, really write the pitch that you want have the results built in. Have a powerful title have it have have it powerfully written who you help as well because you know you don’t want to try to attract the world when you do that, you look watered down

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carla cherry: You know, if I’m calling for a burger and I go for a vegan, but I’m vegetarian. But if I just use an example. If you go for a McDonald’s burger versus like a Ruth Christmas kitchen or whatever the heck that title is

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carla cherry: It’s a different burger. You know, I mean, so you can’t. You have to really

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carla cherry: Say these are the people that I help. This is the specific person that I help otherwise. And then when that person hears you and they’re like, oh my god, she does not solve my problem. And she’s speaking directly to me them you’ve landed on it.

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Jason Mefford: Well, I think that is one of the areas I think that requires the courage or grow into pair of balls right there. We were talking about before is

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Jason Mefford: I mean, I’ve seen it with myself with other people as well where it’s like, oh, but if I narrow it down. And if I’m so specific.

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Jason Mefford: That I’m limiting the number of people that I marketing to right but it’s like, that’s totally what you want to do, right, and because

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Jason Mefford: You know, I noticed even doing like some online ads. I wasn’t as narrow in my audience, right. So I wanted to target people in the US, Canada area.

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Jason Mefford: My ad budget was gone before those people even woke up because I forgot to exclude some of the other people. Right. So I was attracting all these people from halfway around the world.

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Jason Mefford: Instead of where I wanted to go. So the more unit Chan and like you said, the more you niche in The more specific you are, the more you’re going to attract that ideal client that everybody talks about, and it’s not watered down at that point right

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carla cherry: Yeah, well,

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, and I mean I to say I’m a massage therapist will Good lord, was that mean when people ask me when I was talking about massage. I do deep tissue trigger point

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Kathy Gruver: That’s what I do. I don’t do fluffy foo foo. I don’t do Swedish I don’t do any of that stuff. Other stuff people have called me and said, Can I get an hour and a half, Swedish, and I go, you can, but not for me.

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Kathy Gruver: That is not what I do and I send them some because that’s, I don’t enjoy it. It’s not fun for me. I think it’s boring. I think it’s pointless. It’s I

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Kathy Gruver: Deep tissue trigger point come to me with your injury. I’ll figure it out. And I’ll fix it. You know, I had the confidence to say that over the years of playing with other modalities and realizing

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Kathy Gruver: I like this one thing, you know, and I it’s it’s. Same thing with my speaking I speak about stress. Well, who’s your audience. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Anybody with stress. But that’s everybody. And that’s too broad. So I’ve had to narrow that down and it’s hard it is. It’s really hard to do you have do an exercise you have. So when you walk people through, how do you get that that ideal client. How do you narrow that down for people

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carla cherry: Yeah, absolutely. So, well, first thing I tell people is think about who is your favorite client right now.

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carla cherry: And then write all the things that about them down on paper. Right. So I’ll give you an example.

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carla cherry: I had a potential client that came to me and said, you know, we’re just, we’re doing all the things you know we’re paying for that we’re taking the pictures are making the video we’ve read on the website. But we’re just not getting

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carla cherry: People, we’re not getting enough leads and that’s usually the number one problem that all my clients have they need more clients.

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carla cherry: And so I said, Okay, well, you know, we were target client and they couldn’t speak to it. So then I said, Okay. Who’s your favorite client. And they were like, oh, the common maryann’s

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carla cherry: And I was like, ah, tell me more about them. Okay, so they are the client that is trying to sell their house and move to Florida.

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carla cherry: Totally different client than the newlywed that just arrived in LA. Like, could it be more of a person. Right.

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carla cherry: So you know if you’re trying to speak to all people who are interested in buying a house, you know, the Tom and MARIANA are not going to hear you as loud, you’re not going to jump out to them, right.

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carla cherry: So you know I told them what you want to do is you want to really narrow in narrow niche down on that you want to talk about like

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carla cherry: You know, it is time to get out of LA, like, you know, talk about how great Florida is talk about, like, here are the best things do you want to do, you know, and your messaging like wrapping up your life here and like how to get out bounced or whatever your, you know,

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carla cherry: main points are that sets you apart from other people from other realtors

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carla cherry: Then, then you’re going to be the go to person for that person. That’s just, you know, Googling up searching up, you know, selling your house before you leave. They’re gonna be like, Oh my God, you got me you 100% get me and that’s the click.

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Jason Mefford: Well, I’m guessing to them, you know, like in that example it’s going to

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Jason Mefford: Help you know where to go to find those people as well. Right, exactly. So again, like you said, whether you’re blogging or doing something, you know, it’s like

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Jason Mefford: You know, LA. The weather’s great, but if you’re tired of the rat race and you’re ready to go to Miami.

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Jason Mefford: I’m your person. Right. So all your messaging and then again, you’re going to find people who are probably middle aged, you know, again, maybe came to

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Jason Mefford: Everybody comes to LA with dreams. Right. And they came, they came to LA with their dreams and unfortunately, most of the people’s dreams get crushed. Right. So, so they’re ready to go back home.

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Jason Mefford: At that point. And so again, you’re going to be targeting maybe again people in the music or entertainment business that came here, they’ve been grinding it out for 10 or 15 years and finally decided Screw it. I’m done. It’s time to go back home and just do something else. Right.

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carla cherry: Yeah, that

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Jason Mefford: Then you’re going to start then you can start answering those questions like, oh, Where were those people hanging out. Oh. Where were those people, you know, then you then I’m guessing you can help them kind of really narrow that funnel or figure out where to go to attract those people

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carla cherry: Yeah, and is it goes all across from messaging you know it’s in your website, but it’s also if you’re making content making videos you’re going to be talking about this stuff.

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carla cherry: Right, you’re going to be talking about it. And then you can also advertise like SEO wise you can advertise, you know, put your videos up that have these things in the titles.

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carla cherry: You know, have these keywords. So you’re going to be more searchable as well. So, but the main thing is like, you know,

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carla cherry: This was a man and a woman team. They were partners business partners and they were fun and they were funny and they

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carla cherry: You know, they really wanted to be themselves. They didn’t want to put the suit on. They wanted to have the crazy t shirt and a hat. And I said, celebrate that be, be yourself. Be 100% be yourself.

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carla cherry: Because you’re going to attract the people that are attracted to you, but you have to have the right messaging. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, it’s so interesting. We’re, we’re taught that we have to look a certain way and do a certain thing. And after I finished my PhD. I went and changed my headshots.

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Kathy Gruver: To suit and indoor shots and it was, I’m a PhD now and I looked at the great pictures. They’re fabulous pictures and I realized that’s not who I am.

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Kathy Gruver: Like I can still do talks and corporations and have the red streaks in my hair and have an outdoor photoshoot and be fun and funny and that’s, that’s why I can’t cover that up and When Jason I did our values exercise.

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Kathy Gruver: Authenticity was one of our values or something like that. And it’s like, why am I going to try to put on the suit and be Dr. Kathy gruver when I would rather be screwing around and doing improv and trapeze and Dungeons and Dragons, you know, it’s like

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Kathy Gruver: That’s who I am.

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carla cherry: And you’re going to attract people that are trying to do for that reason. Right, exactly. I saw the pictures of yoga trapeze. I was like, oh, she’s awesome.

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carla cherry: And you have great abs and now

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Thank you.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah. Not right now. The coven 19 yeah I got that.

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carla cherry: Everybody I got coven 19 pounds.

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Kathy Gruver: Like the freshman 15 but it’s the coven 19 yeah

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Kathy Gruver: And of course, Jason, guess what.

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Kathy Gruver: We

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Kathy Gruver: Are running

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Kathy Gruver: I know I’m learning so much I so need to hear this today. I mean like I seriously do. I’m just about to start a LinkedIn campaign about you. So I’m like,

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, you’re right. I mean, all the things that I’ve been doing sort of naturally with the massage thing I do need to translate that into every aspect of my life so

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Kathy Gruver: And everyone else that’s listening to during this time it’s like oh thank god.

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Thank God.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah Carla’s here. Good.

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carla cherry: Oh, thank you. My pleasure. So much for having us. Since on time.

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Jason Mefford: And again, as you know we we learn as well as other people learn to, you know, it’s like, for me, a lot of

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Jason Mefford: Going through this is just having the courage and actually doing what we know we need to because I think sometimes it’s, you know, when I look at my business are some things that

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Jason Mefford: Have been, you know, going on in the back of my head there for a little while about, you know, some polarization or other things that I need to do because that’s going to attract more of the people that

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Jason Mefford: I really should be working with. But it limits the number and then our, our limiting or lack side goes, oh, if I’m marketing to 10,000 people and now it’s like 1000. Oh no, I’ve lost 9000 potential sales.

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Jason Mefford: And we have. We just got to have the courage and change our belief about that that because, again, all your clients. I’m guessing when they niche down when they have the courage to do these things to actually make a lot more money and they probably don’t even have to work as much right

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carla cherry: You make a lot more money and you also save time because there’s a problem. If you’re reaching out to too many people you’ve got unqualified leads and then you’re only

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carla cherry: On the phone for an hour with a complete unqualified lead and you’re, you’re wasting time you’re taking away from the time that you could

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carla cherry: actually serve the people that that want your help. So that’s, that’s how I tell my clients to think about it is, think about as it’s time saving things get more qualified leads you’re saving time

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, very good point. Very good point. And that’s a great place to end yeah all Carl. Thank you so much. This has been so great. I know, geez. I’ve, I don’t know, Jason’s a note taker, but I actually have like

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Kathy Gruver: So thank you for that. Yay. All right, so tell her. Oh my gosh, of course, tell everybody where they can find you, your website, all that good stuff.

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carla cherry: Absolutely. So it’s cherry productions doc CO and cherry spelled just like the fruit productions is plural co

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carla cherry: And I do a free consultation. So if anybody’s interested they want to reach out. I’ll do a free consultation with them, see if we’re a good fit. See what they want to do in their business.

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carla cherry: And I can help people pivot and I also have a virtual agency. So if you need to do a complete sales funnel page where you’re selling a pivot product and you don’t want to redo your whole website Muslims terrible and you just want to do the sales page.

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carla cherry: That’s part of my package. So feel free to reach out to me. My phone number is 323-923-8435 and my emails cherry productions NC like North Carolina at GMAIL. COM. I have never gotten gotten rid of my own.

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Kathy Gruver: That’s perfect consistency and marketing. Yeah. Beautiful. Carla. I’m so happy, we’re here, Jason. Any final thoughts.

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Jason Mefford: No. Well, I kind of gave it. Like I said, at least for me, the big takeaway to is just, you know, having that courage and the whole idea of qualified leads you know i think so much of the time we just focus on wanting more leads, when really what we need is qualified leads

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Jason Mefford: So we’re not wasting our time not wasting our time and not wasting our money, you know, as well. So, yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Beautiful. Excellent. This has been another phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal episode, I love this. I’m Kathy gruver I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out, figure out what’s what you’re getting stuck in your marketing.

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Jason Mefford: You know, hook hook up with Carla and see what you can do and go out. Make it a great week and we’ll catch you next week on a future fire and earth podcast. See ya.

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See ya.

At times we all need a little escape, to de-centrate and reduce stress. What’s the healthy way to escape vs. the unhealthy way that often leads to addiction and isolation?

In this #fireandearthpodcast episode we explore how to go into escape mode for the right reasons and how to set boundaries.

Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/

The Fire and Earth Podcast gives you practical advice and keys to unlocking your potential in life and business, hosted by Dr. Kathy Gruver and Jason Mefford. Real, raw and unscripted.

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason Medford

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Kathy Gruver: And I’m Kathy gruver coming to you live from my not green screens backyard. It looks very weird.

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Kathy Gruver: Today we’re speaking of being in the backyard and green screens. We’re going to talk about escape today not escape in the get out of a milk.

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Kathy Gruver: Crate kind of thing that Houdini used to do escape from reality. And when that can be a good and bad thing. And how can you can use escape as a tool to actually help you move forward. So it’s gonna be an interesting one. Today, Jason.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s good that you put that caveat of the beginning because we’ve had so many magicians on the show to

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Jason Mefford: What we’re talking about escape. People may be thinking about the Houdini you know getting out of the handcuffs.

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Jason Mefford: All that kind of stuff, which yeah

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Jason Mefford: I think you’re a lock pick two, if I remember right

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Kathy Gruver: I do know how to pick locks.

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Jason Mefford: You do know how to pick locks.

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Kathy Gruver: And I do think for handcuffs. But that’s a whole nother

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Jason Mefford: But yeah, it’s escape and like you said you know when when it’s healthy when it’s not as well because it can be a very powerful tool. We just have to make sure that we don’t you know let it start to control

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Jason Mefford: Us.

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Jason Mefford: As well. Right.

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Jason Mefford: Yep. So Premier not green screened area Kathy think. So what are we, what are we talking about here wins. How, how can we use this to help us, I guess, right.

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Kathy Gruver: Well, I think it depends on what you’re escaping into, you know, if you are escaping to get out of pain.

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Kathy Gruver: Both emotional, physical, spiritual, this is why a lot of people turn to drugs and alcohol and I’ve done a lot of studying and psychology and mental illness and I’ve read some of these statistics, saying, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: Women have such a higher rate of depression than men. Well, it’s not that women have a higher rate of depression. It’s men don’t report it because they self medicate, typically with drugs and alcohol.

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Kathy Gruver: So it doesn’t mean it’s not there, it means they’re escaping to get out of pain, we’re not necessarily talking about that kind of escape either we’re talking more about the

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Kathy Gruver: I’m going to turn on Facebook and escape into that. Or I’m going to watch funny cat videos, which is an escape.

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Kathy Gruver: Or I’m going to play Dungeons and Dragons, which I did last night, which was very fun. And to me, that’s a kind of healthy escape because it takes you into that creative fantasy world kind of thing.

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Kathy Gruver: And I could tell you all about my character. I’m blue, by the way, um, but it’s really fun because it sparks that different part of your imagination.

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Kathy Gruver: And to a certain extent. I mean, video games, kind of do that to you know it’s a skill thing, but it also does allow you to escape into another world that isn’t your real world.

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Kathy Gruver: Where you can let your problems go for a little bit. We don’t want to escape too far out of that or else or to come back.

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Kathy Gruver: But yeah, so it’s like I’m finding myself escaping into that fantasy is actually a really good thing that gets my brain going and takes me out of real world problems for a little

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. Well, it’s funny that you’re picking up Dungeons and Dragons. Again, I used to play that when I was a teenager and

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, I haven’t, I haven’t thought about that for a long time until we were talking about you getting back into it. Right.

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Jason Mefford: And and it’s it’s one of those two where you know Dungeons and Dragons you play with other people. Right. So it’s, it’s, you’re still being social you’re with other people.

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Jason Mefford: It’s not like you’re escaping and pulling up the covers over your head right you know and woe is me kind of a thing. But, you know, sometimes we just need a break from everyday normal routine life.

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Jason Mefford: Right.

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Jason Mefford: And so these can be a great way to to help us kind of get out of that. But also, I think, to think a little bit differently to

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Jason Mefford: Right, so

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Jason Mefford: So escaping into, you know, a fantasy area. Let’s say for a little while. How can this actually help us, you know, as well as kind of being a form of recreation. How can this also kind of unlock or help us with our potential and with living a better life.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, well, we’ve talked about on other episodes. If we’re so busy concentrating on work we do have to decent rate at some point, we do have to get out of that intense concentration

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Kathy Gruver: And with something like a video game or Dungeons and Dragons. It’s allowing you to decent rate from that part of the world. But the thing that I found that’s cool specifically about D amp D.

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Kathy Gruver: Is for those of you listening who know how to play your movements and how successful you are depends on the roll of the dice, it’s left up to chance at that point.

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Kathy Gruver: And it also depends on what people before you have done.

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Kathy Gruver: So it’s kind of like real world in that, in that, you know, our decisions are based on sometimes fate. Sometimes the luck of the draw, but also what people have done that have come before us that informs the next decision that we make. So

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Kathy Gruver: My dad was a big card player and when he would go to Vegas or go to the casinos, he would play blackjack. He was incredibly good at it. But I can’t tell you how many times you like, Oh, that guy totally screwed up. He took my card.

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Kathy Gruver: And I was confused about that for a while and I was always terrified to play blackjack. And I’m like, I don’t want to screw up somebody, but somebody would hit on something that wasn’t right.

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Kathy Gruver: And it would take the card that my dad could have used and, you know, so our reality now is based on what people have done.

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Kathy Gruver: That came before us. So it’s kind of interesting when I played d&d last night of, you know, what am I going to do well what did that guy do first, because you go in a really specific order and you make your decisions based on what came before. So it was

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Kathy Gruver: I liked it because it gets your creativity going

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Kathy Gruver: It is an escape for a while, from real world, but you also do have to think and use logical thinking and you only have so many skills. So, I mean, it’s this great parallel for this great parallel for sort of our business lives and our personal lives.

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Jason Mefford: Well, it’s kind of interesting that you say that because it’s, you know, D amp D. Yep. Is that way. I mean, if you look at a lot of other games even like chess or

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Jason Mefford: Other stuff right i mean you, I think. And this is true for us in life. Sometimes we want to plan out like the next 10 steps.

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Jason Mefford: You know, if you’re playing d&d or you’re playing chess or something like that. It’s like, Hey, you know, there’s these 10 next steps that you kind of want to take

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Jason Mefford: But the hard part is you don’t know if you can actually take those steps until the other people actually take their steps. So that’s, that’s probably a little bit of a learning for us to is, you know,

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Jason Mefford: Because when we go back, you know, things like the you know law of abundance and manifesting things

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Jason Mefford: I think sometimes we try to push or force certain things to happen and have to realize that we can’t make can 10 step decisions in advance. Most of life. We just have to respond to the circumstance that we’re in and you know again playing some of those games, having some of that escapism.

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Jason Mefford: Helps us kind of remember that right

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Kathy Gruver: Well, and you, you also have to be able to pivot and you also have to be able to go with the flow of that and I’m going to keep using D amp D references. So when last we left we were dealing with a cyclops

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Kathy Gruver: Because when is that not happening.

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Kathy Gruver: So like all week long. I’m thinking, oh my god, we’re

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Kathy Gruver: Going to go have to fight the Cyclops because they want this goat that they named Jeremy and I don’t care about the stupid goat. So why are we dealing with us. And so we went into last night’s game. I was sure we’re gonna have to deal with the Cyclops Cyclops wandered away.

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Kathy Gruver: Later, we had to deal with Griffin’s and Al bears and all you know

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Kathy Gruver: So it’s like, but I had built all this stuff up of, oh, we’re gonna have to fight the Cyclops and we end up having to fight to have the creatures that we didn’t even expect. We’re going to be in this forest that we ended up in

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Kathy Gruver: For those people not into fantasy, they’re going, What the hell you talking about

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Jason Mefford: No, there’s Cyclops is and sit in Santa Barbara. Right.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh my god.

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Kathy Gruver: Everywhere. Everywhere.

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Kathy Gruver: States three. I mean, especially now they’re wandering. Uh, I think.

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Jason Mefford: But it’s funny because what you said there is, you know, and we’ve talked about this on previous episodes as well. Right. So even in this game.

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Jason Mefford: You were kind of building up this anticipation this anxiety this fear of having to fight the Cyclops

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Jason Mefford: Yep. And when you actually got there the Cyclops was gone.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, right. And so how much of that in our life to do we build things up.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep.

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Jason Mefford: That probably will never come to pass. Right, right. So again, another learning from playing Dungeons and Dragons. Now the other thing that you mentioned too is that is decent trading. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Right, which again I don’t know if we coined that term if there actually is a term.

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Kathy Gruver: Filter.

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Jason Mefford: It is an actual term. Okay.

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Jason Mefford: Just thinking we just added to the dictionary. Okay, but decent trading.

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Jason Mefford: Because, you know, again, how much of the time when we’re trying to solve a problem we’re trying to do something. And we’re staying in a certain type or path of thinking

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Jason Mefford: And this goes back to the old Einstein quote right that the, the, you know, to paraphrase right that the the level of thinking that got you the problem.

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Jason Mefford: Right. It’s not the level of thinking that’s going to help you solve the problem.

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Jason Mefford: Right, and so a lot of times these escape or decent trading activities allow us to kind of shift.

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Jason Mefford: In our brain shift our thinking. And as a result, when we kind of relax shift or shift our thinking. A lot of times the subconscious brings us the answer.

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Jason Mefford: So it’s the same thing. Like, you know, before on one of our what’s on your desk episodes.

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Jason Mefford: I think I showed you the Rubik’s cube that I have online. It’s the same thing. It’s a hemispherical shift that sometimes I’ll just stop in the middle of the day play with the Rubik’s Cube. Now I can’t get all the sides the same color. But I can get one side the same

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Jason Mefford: So I pick a color and then I work on that. But it’s that same

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Jason Mefford: Sort of thing. So these little escape isms can help us as well.

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Jason Mefford: To kind of work through change our thinking and help us be able to kind of crack through some of the

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Jason Mefford: Things. We’re trying to get answers for. Yep.

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Kathy Gruver: When we shift. Now this is tough, because when you’re in the middle of writing the thing that screws it up. Most is being interrupted.

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Kathy Gruver: Because you are in that concentrated state and you want to just pour that creativity out, but for the most part, when we take breaks when we do something to decent right we’re actually more productive.

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Kathy Gruver: Because like you said, it’s just hemispheres of the brain. It allows us, especially with something like the Rubik’s Cube.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s a physical kind of repetitive motion thing. This is where the fidget spinners as weird as I thought they were when they first came out.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s this repetitive physical thing that allows us to get out of our heads to help solve problems. So sometimes that escape into something like that is you know it’s beneficial for us. It’s not a bad escape until

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Kathy Gruver: You lose yourself in this world and all you want to do is escape into another world. That’s not good.

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Jason Mefford: And that’s where the crossover starts to happen. Right. And so again, I mean that’s that’s where because again it’s it’s the

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Jason Mefford: That’s the dark side that we have to talk a little bit about right and so there have to be certain boundaries. Yeah. Because like you said, whether

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Jason Mefford: Whether it’s escaping into Dungeons and Dragons or, you know, scrolling Facebook, whatever the escape happens to be there needs to be some boundaries around it, or else three hours later, you

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Jason Mefford: Pop your head up and realize you just wasted three hours of your time. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: So let’s talk about Pokemon.

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Pokemon.

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Kathy Gruver: My when we started the whole pandemic thing my boyfriend said, I want you to try something. And I went, Okay, and he handed me his old Gameboy

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Kathy Gruver: And said, I want you to play Pokemon and I went okay because he plays Pokemon Go where you actually walk around you find Pokemon you battle the Pokemon and he does it a lot. It’s looks kind of fun. I’m going to try to get out of the sun, okay. Speaking of going to the dark side I’m going

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Kathy Gruver: To go to the dark side.

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Kathy Gruver: Or at least the shady side of the street. Okay. Except for that one beam that’s lighting me up. Beautiful.

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Kathy Gruver: Okay. Um, but it’s fun, I like the game. It’s fun.

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Kathy Gruver: But it’s easy to get lost in something like that. And there was one day where I said, you know, all make dinner. And when you get home. It’ll be ready.

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Kathy Gruver: And I’m laying in the habit playing and next you know I get a text from him, saying, Okay, I’m on my way home, and I went shit I laid there for two and a half hours and play Pokemon.

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Kathy Gruver: The time just flew. I didn’t even realize it had been that long. I lost myself in that game for God that I was going to stop after a certain amount of time and do some work and make dinner, and I was just gone.

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Kathy Gruver: Now, since he gave me the game. He was like, I, I’m happy you escaped to the podium and

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Kathy Gruver: I wasn’t because it felt like I wasted the day

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Kathy Gruver: And so, I realized I actually put a timer on now and I will play for a certain amount of time.

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Kathy Gruver: Or I’ll say I’ll explore this one region. And when I hit this spot. I’m done. I feel like we have to put hard limits on things. And for me, my personally I have such a

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Kathy Gruver: My brain works in such a way that if I put a limit on that I actually stopped. So it’s not, you know, I actually stick to that. Whereas a lot of people have to become a forced out of it though 10 more minutes 10 more minutes 10 more minutes. And next thing you know the whole day is gone.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and there’s there’s two good tip takeaways right for people, as far as from a skill standpoint, from what you just said.

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Jason Mefford: So the first one is, again, if we’re if we’re choosing Right to escape then before you go into that escape areas set a little time.

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Jason Mefford: Limit or some kind of limit before you start the activity, you know, for the next half hour for the next hour, whatever it happens to be. I’m going to choose.

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Jason Mefford: To do this, right. And so, deciding in advance. There’s, there’s, there’s actually this amazing thing. You know, up here called your brain that

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Jason Mefford: You know, when we decide and we tell ourselves certain things, those things happen, right. Like, I haven’t actually used an alarm clock.

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Jason Mefford: For a little while so I when I go to bed. I say it is, you know, whatever the time is. And normally, because I go to bed early it’s nine or 930

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Jason Mefford: I’m going to wake up at 530 or whatever the time happens to be. And guess what happens, you know, between 530 and 540 in the morning thing my eyes go open right

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Jason Mefford: So setting that boundary before you go into the escape area, but then also another tip is, you know, especially if it’s time bound

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Jason Mefford: We have these things called our phones that have things like audible timers on it you know say to yourself. I’m going to spend a half an hour doing this set your timer when the timer goes off, you’ll walk away.

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Jason Mefford: And as long as you can do that regularly, then you’re fine. If the timer goes off and you’re like oh 10 more minutes timer goes off again. Oh 10 more minutes. Ooh 10 more minutes. Right.

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Jason Mefford: Then you’re not actually being true to what you told yourself to begin with. And so if you don’t come out of that escape, that’s when you can start going down that rabbit hole and have problems.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, and it’s fun and it’s a great, great way to shirk responsibility and lose yourself it out, but it’s also not healthy. That’s when it takes over into an addiction, where it’s a problem.

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Kathy Gruver: And I know clients who have kids who that’s all they want to do is play certain video game and at some point they actually unplug it and so you’ve got to stop doing this. This is become a problem if you were there was a

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Kathy Gruver: One of the NSA national speakers Association, the winter conference where I spoke. Were you at that one in Baltimore.

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Jason Mefford: Know,

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Kathy Gruver: I think you were someplace else. There was one of the one of the speaker said, How many of you are addicted to your phones and you can see the audience kind of go

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Jason Mefford: Nobody wanted to raise

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Kathy Gruver: No, no, no, of course, none of you are. How many of you have a friend or a family member that you think’s addicted to their phones. Every hand went up. She’s like, uh huh.

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Kathy Gruver: She goes, for those of you wondering what an addiction to your phone looks like do you wake up with your phone.

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Kathy Gruver: And we all kind of looked at her and she goes, let me explain what that means.

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Kathy Gruver: When I say do you wake up with your phone. I mean, is it in bed with you. Is it on the nightstand with you. Is it on the floor next to your bed. Is it two feet away plugged in.

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Kathy Gruver: She goes, because that’s a problem because if you woke up with a beer in your bed on the nightstand on the floor, two feet away from you. That’s an addiction and we all went oh

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Kathy Gruver: You know, it’s an addiction and we have to be aware of when we were really overstepping those bounds, whether it’s addiction to shopping or gambling or video games are crack

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Kathy Gruver: On the weekends only on the weekends.

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Kathy Gruver: But yeah, we, we have to be aware when we’re pushing those boundaries were escaping too much. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. So again, I think it’s, you know, again, some big takeaways, because I think we’ll probably run it up on our time this episode right but you know escaping is a good way right for us to kind of release to de stress decent trade.

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Jason Mefford: You know, but, but, again, some questions, probably to ask yourself, to make sure. Why do I want to escape. And if the answer is I’m trying to avoid pain. I’m trying to avoid

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Jason Mefford: You know, some accountability. It’s probably not time for you to escape that would not be a good because if you follow that pattern then it goes into any other addictive type behavior that we can talk about

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Kathy Gruver: And where does it end. I mean, if you’re trying to escape something that’s a constant, you will never be able to escape from it and it will just be a consistent running, which is definitely not healthy.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. So instead, if you say if you’re saying to yourself, Hey, I want to escape for a little while because I just need to let my brain, relax, and you do whatever. Go for it. Right.

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Jason Mefford: But then again at before you jump into that escape, kind of, you know, tell yourself. Look, I’m going to do this for

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Jason Mefford: Whatever 1530 minutes an hour, two hours, whatever it happens to be kind of set some boundaries to begin with.

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Jason Mefford: And then use tools like your phone or other things to help keep you accountable for it and make sure that then you come back and and deal with whatever you need to be dealing with next

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely. And maybe choose an escape like something like Dungeons and Dragons where it’s creative, but you’re also escaping with other people, you know, it’s a group effort with something like that. So yeah, there’s different ways we can escape in good health.

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Jason Mefford: There is so. All right, everybody find some time this week to escape, escape for the right reasons. Set yourself the boundaries.

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Jason Mefford: Right. But when you do, like you said, I mean, amazing things end up happening when we take that little pause. We decent trade a little bit

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Jason Mefford: A lot of really good ideas come through. We get answers to questions that we’ve been asking ourselves. So take a minute, find some time this week and escape for a little while, but do it in a healthy way.

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Jason Mefford: All right.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s been another

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Kathy Gruver: Fun EPISODE OF COURSE I’M GOING TO GO slay some dragons and figure out where the Cyclops went

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Kathy Gruver: Got the groove where I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason effort. I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out, have a great week and we’ll catch you on a future episode of the fire and earth podcast. So, yeah.

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Yeah.

We are so honored to talk with Hannibal in this #fireandearthpodcast about his entree to the world of magic, how through feeling the rhythm and energy of the audience he is able to connect and provide a sense of awe and wonder to his audiences.

Not only to you hear his story, but get practical advice for being successful in life by listening and responding with kindness, showing love, kindness, and using your gifts for the good of humanity.

Hannibal the Magician was forged on the streets of Charlotte, North Carolina, and performed for tips in order to pay the rent and keep food on the table. As the years passed, he shifted his skillset to serving the business world. Hannibal created original, customized programs that would simultaneously entertain and educate. Hannibal has traveled the world with his Unique Inspirational Theatre, carving new paths in the world of corporate entertainment.

Recognized by the International Brotherhood of Magicians with the People’s Choice award for Close-Up Magic, and by the Academy of Magical Arts with a nomination for Best Close-Up Magician of 2018, this veteran of street magic, comedy clubs, and banquet-style performance has successfully created custom programming for corporate clients including Boeing, Philip Morris, Coca-Cola, and many more.

Hannibal currently resides in Los Angeles, where he regularly delights and astonishes audiences in performances at the Academy of Magical Arts, Magic Castle Cabaret, clubs, and private parties.

Learn more at: http://themagicartist.com/ and support him through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ @magicartist

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason method.

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Kathy Gruver: And I am Kathy gruver and we are so excited to have a another phenomenal guest this gentleman is an amazing magician and incredible entertainer quite the philosopher. He’s one of my favorite people Hannibal

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Kathy Gruver: Directly from Los Angeles and and one of our favorite performers at the magic castle welcome Hannibal

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Christopher Hannibal: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah. You’re very welcome. So this is, I’m so excited about this conversation because we’re not quite as has a lot of them. We’re not quite sure where it’s going to go.

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Kathy Gruver: But I wanted to have, you know, I wanted to have you on because you’re just you’re an incredible performer.

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Kathy Gruver: And you have really just created this environment and created this life around yourself that inspires and entertain so many people. So give us an idea of like how you got into magic and and we’ll take the conversation from there.

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Christopher Hannibal: Okay. Um, I got into magic by accident.

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Christopher Hannibal: I was working in 1992 summer of 1992 I was working for a family resort in Charlotte, North Carolina. I was writing scripts and performing live action.

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Christopher Hannibal: Plays musicals and puppet shows for this family resort. My job was to write scripts at apartment, who wrote music and we created these shows are generally run for a week or two.

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Christopher Hannibal: In the in that interim. I wrote a share that it contained a street performer Hustler low life kind of a dude.

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Christopher Hannibal: And so I went to the public library and I learned a couple of card tricks in order to play that character.

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Christopher Hannibal: Now the family resort job went away it we literally came in one morning and the gates were locked in the whole place it shut down and never reopen

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Christopher Hannibal: I never got my last paycheck.

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Christopher Hannibal: And as you might imagine script writing jobs in Charlotte, North Carolina.

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Christopher Hannibal: Are our scares

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Christopher Hannibal: Smaller. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: I thought that was one of the hotbeds of the

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Jason Mefford: film industry now.

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Christopher Hannibal: Wow, until we decided that

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Christopher Hannibal: Carolina decided to tax overtax the people coming in and lost a lot of stuff to Georgia where we were for me. But, alas, um, so

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Christopher Hannibal: In the, in the discussion I had with my wife at the time.

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Christopher Hannibal: As well you know I look for something else. I’ll look for some kind of performance work because I’ve been a performer since I was six years old.

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Christopher Hannibal: Something will come along. In the meantime, I know a couple of card tricks. I wonder if I could actually be a street performer.

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Christopher Hannibal: And make that payoff. So I took the props and the table and everything from the plan written and went uptown in Charlotte, North Carolina, and on day one I made $87

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Christopher Hannibal: I’m just stopping people and showing them the two card tricks that I knew and telling jokes and bantering with them. And I never got another job.

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Christopher Hannibal: Never replaced the agenda. I went I did street performing for a very long time and move that into bars and restaurants and from that leveraged corporate work and motivational speaking and and and then two years ago now, I picked up the magic thing in 1993

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Christopher Hannibal: Um, and then skip ahead to two years ago in 2018 I moved to Los Angeles.

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Christopher Hannibal: As a newly single man to continue to continue this journey.

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Kathy Gruver: And we’re very happy you’re here.

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Christopher Hannibal: Glad to be here.

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Kathy Gruver: Um, I have watched you perform so many times now.

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Kathy Gruver: You play with the crowd.

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Christopher Hannibal: To do.

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Kathy Gruver: In such a way, it is so beautifully manipulative and you take on this note, like in the best way.

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Christopher Hannibal: You take them on this.

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Kathy Gruver: incredible journey so

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Kathy Gruver: So what does that. What does that do for you as the performer to getting so into that character and so into that banter with the audience, where does that take you

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Christopher Hannibal: As it’s such a dance you know and and it’s literally

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Christopher Hannibal: My mother insisted. When I was a kid, I learned ballroom dancing and that I learned jazz and tapping stage, that’s really how everything got started.

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Christopher Hannibal: And with ballroom dancing with certain types of of that kind of like waltzes untangles everything else light touches can change the entire

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Christopher Hannibal: Direction which doing and as the lead of the dance you you decide we’re going this way you can do it with a step or a gentle nudge in this direction. And that’s that that’s that same back and forth.

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Christopher Hannibal: With the intimacy of a close up or parlor sized audience to where you get a feel of the rhythm of this of the group that’s around you and you and you know push them in the right direction.

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Christopher Hannibal: That’s really the best way I can describe it is is I, I have a gift of a feeling of I recognize that you’re looking in this direction and this is what you’re thinking and

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Christopher Hannibal: And I just try to pull all those elements together it’s it’s largely unconscious. I’ve done it for so long and and i’m going to credit that a lot of that to st performance.

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Christopher Hannibal: Because you did crowd changes and it moves and it breeds and people walk away and new people walk up and who knows what their day is being or whatever. And with that they’ve got

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Christopher Hannibal: Their not a captive audience.

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Christopher Hannibal: If they get bored if they’ve got something else to do. They can literally in the middle of whatever you’re doing can just walk, walk away and they won’t if they’re engaged.

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Christopher Hannibal: And so I learned early on to engage and start the dance.

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Jason Mefford: What does God say, you know, you know, because again, I mean both of you are performers. I guess I perform in a kind of a different way from a corporate perspective, but it’s it’s

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Jason Mefford: You know, it’s always interesting how, you know, a lot of the big movie film stars TV stars end up going back and doing things like Broadway and and other live performance stuff.

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Jason Mefford: And I, and I’ve got to imagine, because like as you’re talking about it here. You know, I mean, you know, movies are magical to the people watching them not to the people.

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Jason Mefford: Right, because they’re a pain in the ass, you know, it’s like all right do that scene again, you know, reset.

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Kathy Gruver: One.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, back to one. Here we go.

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Jason Mefford: But a live performance because it’s live, like you said, there’s that energy. There’s that rhythm of the audience and every single night. Even if you’re even if you’re performing the same play

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Jason Mefford: You got to assume each each performance is slightly different.

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Jason Mefford: Oh yeah, has of the audience and especially like you know street performing

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Jason Mefford: That’s got to be one of the hardest gigs. It’s like

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Jason Mefford: It’s like stand up comedy or anything else you know where it’s like it’s, you’ve got to be a good performer or else you don’t hold the audience and it just goes spirals downward

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Christopher Hannibal: Good performer. Yes, but you got to make the connection. Yeah. You have to be able to connect with the people in front of you and I’m just gonna, I’m gonna put you on the spot. Kathy you’ve watched me perform, how many times

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Christopher Hannibal: Roughly

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Kathy Gruver: Seven or eight

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Christopher Hannibal: How many times have you seen me do generally the same tricks.

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Kathy Gruver: Uh, well, other than the Halloween show it’s pretty much similar.

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Christopher Hannibal: The same. Yeah. So what keeps you coming back, watching the same show again.

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Kathy Gruver: You know that’s an awesome question. And I’ve had so many people ask me that, about the magic castle in general.

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Kathy Gruver: Because they’re like, oh my god. How often can you watch the same guys do the same tricks. I said, well, first of all,

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Kathy Gruver: It’s not the same guys. And second of all, though it’s maybe the same illusion or the same sleight of hand or the same trick.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s the way it’s done. It’s the pattern. It’s the story that goes around it. And even if I know how they’re done, because I know how most of them are done to me it’s the

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Kathy Gruver: Knowing how it’s done and not seeing them do it or seeing them do it and go holy shit, that was so great that way he

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Kathy Gruver: Found that the way he

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Kathy Gruver: Was the artistry of it at that point.

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Kathy Gruver: And the other thing that I really like, especially with you.

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Kathy Gruver: I like watching the people around me watch the magician.

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Kathy Gruver: Right. So there’s been so many times, especially with like Mike Shota who I also want to have on the show, or I mean like that kind of performer john Armstrong or handsome jack. Like, I will sit back and watch the people in the crowd.

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Kathy Gruver: Watch him.

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Kathy Gruver: And there’s such an energy about that to me of people going, oh, or go, holy shit, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: Because as an adult human. When do we get to have that off and that

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Christopher Hannibal: Wonder.

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Kathy Gruver: And that mystery. I know.

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Christopher Hannibal: It’s so rare and I can test you and only genuinely comes out in live performance. You can be amazing astonished and entertained by virtual magic or things on screen like this and that. That’s going to be largely in and more explored in the future because of this particular situation.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

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Christopher Hannibal: But live performances. When you get that raw energy and that raw human feeling and the secret is is that’s, that’s where my show is

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Christopher Hannibal: Because I watched them all the time.

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Christopher Hannibal: I know I’ve seen me

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Enough.

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Jason Mefford: Are you a mirror around and watch yourself.

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Jason Mefford: On your phone.

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Christopher Hannibal: Yeah, no, I, I want us. I want to see what’s coming this way. You know I i I’m very interested in what this audience is gonna, it’s going to show me this time.

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Jason Mefford: When I think it’s a you know that on wonder, you know, that you kind of talk about that I think is so so fabulous and why magic is so magical

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Jason Mefford: Right is because, you know, like you said, as adults,

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Jason Mefford: You know, we usually kind of get rid of some of that stuff, you know, it’s like we push it aside.

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Jason Mefford: You know, and I’ll get I’ll get the quote wrong, you know, but the john cougar Mellencamp line. You know, when I was a young man. I said, put away those young boy, new ways now that I’m much older I wish.

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Christopher Hannibal: You don’t want

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Jason Mefford: Those days.

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Christopher Hannibal: Well, that’s a, that’s a direct reference back to

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Christopher Hannibal: I don’t know the verse, but it’s a biblical verse that when I was young, I thought, I thought as a young man I reacted. As a young man, and then as it became older I put away. I put away my childish ways and acted in thought. As a man, and I’m like, Why, yeah.

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Christopher Hannibal: Well, sure I have responsibilities and I take care of responsibilities and I, you know, maintain a certain level of dignity for my age.

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You know,

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Christopher Hannibal: Yeah.

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I do

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Kathy Gruver: For anybody just listening to this on audio. They’re like, what the hell are they doing

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Jason Mefford: Might be so much better off in 48 different languages.

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Christopher Hannibal: But then again, and I want to, I want to continue that thought as far as attention and connection and and watching the audience and the visceral return. That’s a huge amount of power to have what are you gonna do with it.

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Christopher Hannibal: Now that you’ve established it now that you blossom to this thing. And what do you do with it.

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Christopher Hannibal: You have a responsibility. Right. Or don’t you

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Christopher Hannibal: And so for me.

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Christopher Hannibal: At a certain point in life. I started

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Christopher Hannibal: Talking about things that I just simply believe in

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Christopher Hannibal: Love kindness.

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Christopher Hannibal: Use of one’s gifts. Instead of wasting them and that led me to some very interesting places and also led to me led me to people telling me that

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Christopher Hannibal: You know, just just, just do your act and and keep your own opinions to yourself. We only came to see cartridge. We don’t want to hear what you have to say anything else.

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Kathy Gruver: Which is such a disservice because you can watch that online.

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Kathy Gruver: You can google anybody and watch a card trick.

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Kathy Gruver: And this is, this is one of the things I love. I mean, I must have seen Michael Shota

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Kathy Gruver: 20 times

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Kathy Gruver: I mean like every time over the cat that he’s a performer down in the bar at the magic castle.

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Kathy Gruver: Yes. Every time I can see him. I do.

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Kathy Gruver: Is the same basic tricks tricks. It’s the same basic patter I could probably do his show, except I don’t have the dexterity. Do any of it, but I love the artistry of it. And I love the philosophy and I love the audience interaction. Same with you the times that I’ve had the privilege of

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Kathy Gruver: Performing yeah I get to go see you. It’s because of that story that you weave, it’s because of them are performance and the

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Kathy Gruver: Genius. Oh my god, he yes everybody I take down there was absolutely blown away.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely and pissed off.

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Christopher Hannibal: Of course, of course.

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Christopher Hannibal: Like, but again, and I, but our styles.

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Christopher Hannibal: Are very different. Yeah, in the way that we approach and handle an audience. I could never do what he does, he’s, he said his own level we say he’s carved out his own

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Christopher Hannibal: Place and it’s perfect, you know, and because it’s perfectly keeps working and refining polishing and just gets into for me every time I see it’s better. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, it really is say here’s why I love this conversation. So Jason and I have talked about magic about that all about that. The magic of life about embracing that newness and that wonder sort of thing.

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Kathy Gruver: We’ve also talked about third

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Kathy Gruver: Level listening, which is exactly what you were talking about of not only knowing how you’re feeling but also what’s happening around you and taking the input from the crowd into you.

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Kathy Gruver: Yes. Other thing I love about this conversation is that we can have 20 people doing the same thing.

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Kathy Gruver: With doing it in such a different way and making it so unique and so your own and I mean I do the same basic stress talk. Every time I go to a stress talk, but I have had people at conferences years in a row. Come back to see me do it.

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Kathy Gruver: They know it’s not new.

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Kathy Gruver: They know it’s probably going to be the same stories, but it’s that performance. It’s the way I weave stories. So for people that think they have to continually reinvent themselves. I mean, yes, you want to keep growing.

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Kathy Gruver: But I don’t think you need to be a different human every single day. I mean, I don’t know, it’s, it’s like the sort of double edged sword kind of thing.

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Christopher Hannibal: So a few years ago.

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Christopher Hannibal: I opened. I had the opportunity open for Davy Jones from the monkeys. He was doing corporate work at the time he was traveling around

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Christopher Hannibal: And we did a tent show on the law of a large mansion in the mountains of North Carolina.

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Christopher Hannibal: They hired me to warm the crowd up

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Christopher Hannibal: For Davy Jones, I, I certainly did my best and and I got a great connection and but there was, there’s this tension between audience and a lot of what you do. Also, when you absorb this and and you have that third level.

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Christopher Hannibal: You can then change the entire mood of the audience by putting it back out in the way that you presenting in a positive way you do it, or the or the the the heightening of nerves. If you want to do with that way or you can you can move the ground. I’m

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Christopher Hannibal: David came out.

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Christopher Hannibal: After Mr. Jones came out after I was done and and just slew

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Christopher Hannibal: Right, all of that to say later on that evening, we’re back in the dressing room and he’s talking to me about the accurate joy, the dad, he thought, and he asked me how many times

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Christopher Hannibal: Have you changed what you’re doing your act as if nobody evolves and I put things here and take them out depending on my mood and what I think will work well for the crowd of doing. It’s like that’s not like I’ve been doing the same two dozen songs from the past 40 years

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Christopher Hannibal: He said, I have three albums of original material. Nobody wants to hear

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Christopher Hannibal: If I leave out Daydream believer, they’re going to write it.

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Christopher Hannibal: So I just, I have to make it unique each night while singing the same words.

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Christopher Hannibal: I never want to be famous.

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Christopher Hannibal: But yeah, but it is it is in a very, very huge sense the singer and not the song.

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Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Well, stand up comedy. I mean, it’s like I got to the point where I knew every single Jerry Seinfeld stick. I mean like I knew how he said it. I knew the facial expression, but you still want to see that over and over and over again.

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Christopher Hannibal: He reaches it and connects with something. It’s the way make them feel in Maya Angelou said it’s not what you do. It’s how you make them feel and that’s that’s what brings people back around.

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Jason Mefford: So, so what are some of the things that, you know, I mean, we talked about like the, you know,

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Jason Mefford: Listening kind of to the energy of the crowd.

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Jason Mefford: But what what are some things. I mean, you know, because again, I love the the point that you talked about you know with with kind of this power comes from responsibility as well. Right, as far as I mean what are, what are

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Jason Mefford: Because I think we can all do this to some extent in our immediate little circle, too. Right. It’s like we can we can pick up on energy. We can see kind of what’s what’s going on.

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Jason Mefford: I mean what what how do you kind of do that. And then how do you again with this responsibility, try to help move the energy, the way that it needs to go. So you get changed the situation. Right. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: I mean, because like you said with that one with with David Jones, you know, it was, it was a tough crowd. Kind of. To begin with, as a corporate event, probably. I mean, I

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Jason Mefford: Bet it a lot of those kind of things that depends on you know you guys were probably later in the evening. So you don’t know what the last couple of sessions were or this

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Christopher Hannibal: Sure, add

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Jason Mefford: On to it. You just gotta land into

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Jason Mefford: This thing, right.

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Christopher Hannibal: Well, you, you mentioned you have kids.

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Christopher Hannibal: You can tell their mood without them saying anything. Right.

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Christopher Hannibal: So an interpersonal relationship when you get to know someone or when you when you get into someone else’s vibe, or you were established relationship with someone

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Christopher Hannibal: You have the ability, first of all, to recognize at a glance request from a few words or just the small interaction of exactly where their heads at

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Christopher Hannibal: And if you if you take

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Christopher Hannibal: If you take I don’t usually it’s not taking control, but it’s taking the the the leverage of that and saying, I’m going to respond.

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Christopher Hannibal: To the way you’re, you know, the way you’re reacting to me with anything I can do it in a positive way. I can fight back and cause friction. I can you can give us the entire moment before they even know there is one by the way you present yourself out to them.

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Christopher Hannibal: Um, it’s a form of of

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Christopher Hannibal: Loving manipulation.

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Christopher Hannibal: You know, I’m going to turn your mood into a positive one. And if I can’t. That’s kind of on, you know, but I’m not, I’m not going to get sucked into a negative

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Christopher Hannibal: Reaction with someone or friction reaction to someone right off the bat, especially if it’s someone I care about and I see they’re having a bad day. It’s, it’s okay. What love, are you not getting right now.

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Christopher Hannibal: What, what is it you need and knowing what our relationship is and and how I can interact with you. How can I be fused that or make your day, a better one, or at least make our interaction that we’re about to have a better one based on what I know about

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Kathy Gruver: Like that, when I see clients. It’s like that in relationship, you know, if I have a client that walks in, who’s in a state.

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Kathy Gruver: Very low on that emotional tone scale. And I want to bring them up.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, it’s like I have a choice of how I handle that. And it’s the same thing when I step out in front of an audience.

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Kathy Gruver: To do a talk, you know, it’s I’ve got 100 people I’ve got 1000 people. And I’ve got to try to reach every single one of them as if they’re not sending in this giant crowd. How do you do, you know, how do you do that, how do you have that communication, whether it’s one on one or 1000 to one.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s a juggling act because you’ve got to read that input process that input and spit something back out.

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Kathy Gruver: So it’s and I love that that

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Kathy Gruver: Dance metaphor. That’s exactly what it is. It is this the subtle movements and the subtle changes and just sometimes that pause where the audience goes

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Kathy Gruver: What, what, you know, you get quieter, or you use vocal Tony all those things we were trained in as a as a performer.

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Kathy Gruver: If we can bring that to everyday life. We’re going to be more effective communicators more effective business people, all of that stuff. Yeah.

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Christopher Hannibal: And and you can you can change attitude with just just the way you’re holding yourself sure expression on your face and we react to things.

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Jason Mefford: Because you’re talking about it. I remember the concept of pace pace lead like from a reporting standpoint.

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Jason Mefford: You know where you kind of your pace once or twice with wherever they’re at and then you make a lead change.

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Jason Mefford: Right. So again, if, if somebody is, you know, maybe feeling down. You know, you try to under kind of understand and kind of go with them for a little bit and then you try to move them a little bit up

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Jason Mefford: In that area and see if they’re going to follow you if they follow you, then you kind of, you know, again, pace pace lead and eventually you kind of move people up.

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Jason Mefford: You know in in where you’re going and Kathy’s you were talking to you know about the big groups, you know, because again, as a public speaker. Also, you know, I’ve always been taught what you do to one, you do to all

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Jason Mefford: And so, you know, again, it’s like, you don’t have to go around and give high fives everybody in the audience, but if you do it to one or two people.

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Jason Mefford: Everybody else feels like it happened to them. And so I’m sure again in your performance art. It’s kind of the same way you know again where you’re kind of going off of certain individuals as well to try to influence the whole crowd is as well.

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Christopher Hannibal: And the one thing magicians could learn. Ah, one of the most important lessons they could learn is is exactly that. Because if you are

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Christopher Hannibal: belittling one person. If you are if you’re making one person brought into the joke that you’re telling or

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Christopher Hannibal: Being squeezy or being you know in appropriately flirting, or whatever, you know, whatever level that comes off. You’re making everybody else in the room uncomfortable.

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Christopher Hannibal: Or making them feel like anything you’re doing it to me is as follows you to meet this person. Yeah. So why would you do that.

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Kathy Gruver: And I’ve seen that I’ve seen a magician start to bomb a little bit and get uncomfortable and start actually making personal

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Kathy Gruver: Almost personal insults to one person whether commenting on their physicality or commenting on, you know, and you can see the entire the entire group does nothing. That’s funny.

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Kathy Gruver: They turn they turn on them.

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Kathy Gruver: Quickly, because it’s a very personal dig not even in character or not. I mean, there’s one Magician. I can’t think of who it is, but he asked for $1 bill.

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Kathy Gruver: And he tears it up and then he goes, I’m just a deck and puts that tentative dollar bill in his pocket. He was never going to restore it. He was and I actually find it hilarious.

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Kathy Gruver: Because he does it in character in such a way that it kind of fit and you’re like, No, yeah, I mean, that’s just the theme throughout his, he’s just sort of that, but he doesn’t so friendly like

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Christopher Hannibal: Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: That it’s you don’t go, oh, it’s funny, like, oh, he just kind of played us all, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: The delivery.

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Christopher Hannibal: Did you ever see Harry Anderson work.

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Kathy Gruver: No, not in person.

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Christopher Hannibal: Okay, Harry would come out and he he had this style. It’s kind of an easygoing laid back, never leaning into your face, but always just, you know, and he would play with a few people. And he would

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Christopher Hannibal: You know that’s that’s a. Did you get a free bowl of soup when you bought the time that’s nice. It’s very, you know,

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Christopher Hannibal: So he would

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Christopher Hannibal: And then you pick out one person and he just be a total jerk to this one person.

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Christopher Hannibal: Like handed eventually gets into his show and he goes over, he’s like, hey, getting five, give me five. Give me $5 bill and they pull it out and he tear it and a half ago, and he’d go, where have you been

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Christopher Hannibal: I’ve been a jerk to this guy over here. All my

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Christopher Hannibal: Eye I insulted. That guy’s time I’ve been a jerk to everybody in the room and I say give me if I didn’t even say please

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Christopher Hannibal: Where were you brought up, you know,

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Christopher Hannibal: It was just that kind of thing. It just caught you. So yeah, we’re. Why would I do that.

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Kathy Gruver: Right, yeah.

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Christopher Hannibal: And he also disarming it brought that out so you can, the one of the lessons he taught me personally was like he’s you want something from something just in an audience, especially you ask them.

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Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, that’s so true. I noticed in life. What do you need that’s in JSON. I HAD THAT WE’VE HAD A CONVERSATION. SO MUCH. People say that they’re not getting what they want, but they don’t actually know what they want.

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Kathy Gruver: And that’s my first coaching session with people is, what do you, what do you want like what you want.

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Kathy Gruver: You don’t just turn on ways and go take me somewhere, you know, you have to program in a destination and then you have to ask for it and then you have to get there. And of course we blunt or another half an hour.

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Jason Mefford: I was gonna say. Cuz, cuz cuz with that you know when you said that Kathy because

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Jason Mefford: That’s, you know, one of the common coaching questions is people already know what they want. Right. So you say you

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Jason Mefford: Know, what do you want and they say,

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Jason Mefford: I don’t know what I want. And so the the rebuttal is if you knew what it was, what would it be, yeah. And that is an amazing question because all of a sudden, people kind of sit up and they go, oh, it’s this

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, yeah, you knew the whole time. It’s just, you know, we were kind of blocking it and not putting it in there.

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Jason Mefford: No. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: I like to say when people say, I don’t know. I say, Yes, you do. Yeah.

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Christopher Hannibal: And they

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Kathy Gruver: Always. Maybe it’s the third time I say that, well, I don’t know. Yes, you do. Well, I don’t know. Yes, you do. Well, it’s probably and then they have an answer. You know, it just takes a little bit of

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Christopher Hannibal: There’s a lot of fear and standing up and just saying, what does she want

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Christopher Hannibal: Yes, there’s a ton of people that just live in fear of just acknowledging what it is they they really truly want something

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Kathy Gruver: Else in the whole we had done.

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Kathy Gruver: Here. Yes, is

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Jason Mefford: Gone fear.

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Christopher Hannibal: And his in his in his afraid to say what she wants, you know, out of, out of the life she’s got so she started with that. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Huge alright so

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Any, any final thoughts and then how can people reach you to book you to contact you to all that good stuff.

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Christopher Hannibal: Stay on wash your hands, um,

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, there’s like

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Christopher Hannibal: Ah,

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Christopher Hannibal: If you the question that I get most from from magician that you know

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Christopher Hannibal: Kathy I’m successful at what I do and I’m not successful because I make a lot of money. I’m not successful because I’m famous as a magician. I guess I have a certain level of recognition among my peers.

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Christopher Hannibal: I was nominated for both evolution of the year. And part of additional year. I don’t know how that happened. Um,

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Christopher Hannibal: My first advice to any musician coming up. I’m I’m successful because I do what I love, and I reach people and we danced together have a kick ass show. That’s the only thing you have to do.

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Christopher Hannibal: As far as getting along in life. Listen, when somebody is talking to you and respond with kindness.

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Christopher Hannibal: That’s, that’s, that’s, in a nutshell, for me right now 54 days without performing nobody sent me a chip or anything.

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Kathy Gruver: And after day 30

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Christopher Hannibal: Something I don’t know what I got. It’s a

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Christopher Hannibal: I’ve been in this room now for 54 days and not in front of an audience at all. It’s a very tough for someone like me. If you want to get in touch with me, my website is magic artists com

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Christopher Hannibal: Magic artists calm. If you feel like supporting my art my Patreon, which I have a nice little following people who

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Christopher Hannibal: Support me in minimal ways, you know, which is nice. It keeps food in my, in my refrigerator. And so, California. Besides, they can have is Patreon handle is magic artist.

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Christopher Hannibal: And

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Christopher Hannibal: That’s, that’s kind of it. I mean, I don’t have any up and coming shows

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Kathy Gruver: Well, you will

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Kathy Gruver: It will get back to that.

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Christopher Hannibal: You know, if, if anyone is looking for a consultation on particular magic effects. They’re trying to do.

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Christopher Hannibal: Via zoom or whatever available for that and that is on a strictly donation based, whatever, if I can help you. I’ll help you watch your video and tell you what I see are the strengths and weaknesses of formats.

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Christopher Hannibal: That I’m I have a whole ton of new material that I have been working on for 54 days that I get to unleash as soon as soon as the world stops coming to an end.

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Kathy Gruver: Yay, because this was the world recharges itself. That’s awesome. I’m so happy we had you on this lovely conversation.

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Kathy Gruver: I’m Yay, I love my friends. Okay.

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Christopher Hannibal: I gave you some quality things. Oh, you saw that it was beautiful.

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Kathy Gruver: It was beautiful. I’m Kathy group or I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out you know i i love that, you know, listen to people and respond with kindness and if we if we do that.

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Jason Mefford: It’s going to be a great week for you. So go out, have a great week and we’ll catch you on a future episode of the fire and earth podcast. See ya.

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Christopher Hannibal: Yeah, thank you.

Most people fail to achieve their goals, because they never change their habits. In this #fireandearthpodcast episode we did into what it takes to create new habit and ensure you achieve your goals.

We take a simple case study on wanting to read more, and break down what it takes to actually accomplish what seems like a relatively easy thing. Go from wishing to doing.

Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/ or http://fireandearthpodcast.com/

The Fire and Earth Podcast gives you practical advice and keys to unlocking your potential in life and business, hosted by Dr. Kathy Gruver and Jason Mefford. Real, raw and unscripted.

#fireandearthpodcast

Transcript

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kathygruver: Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Kathy Gruber.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason Medford, and today we thought we’d do something a little different, since I know many of you are locked away in your home, kind of in this isolation quarantine period.

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Jason Mefford: Where we’re going to show up in our pajamas. But we decided we better use bathrobes because I know actually I don’t wear pajamas. So

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Jason Mefford: We’re in our bathrobes today coming to you.

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Jason Mefford: You know, to try to talk about

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Jason Mefford: You because we’re living in a new normal. Now right and and because of that a lot of you have an opportunity now to make some changes in your life.

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Jason Mefford: You know, Kathy. I’m sure you’ve probably felt like me right where it’s like, at times, you know, you’re like, Hey, I want to change my life I want to do something different. I want to create new habits.

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Jason Mefford: Now is the perfect time to do it because all of your old habits in normals have changed, right. So it’s an easier time for us now to actually

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Jason Mefford: change some of those habits and take advantage of this time to either develop new habits learn new things. Do whatever that you want to try to do and change during this time.

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kathygruver: Yeah, absolutely. I’m going to be slightly contrary though.

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Jason Mefford: Oh,

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kathygruver: I know if

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kathygruver: You may. So here are some of the challenges with that though this is a perfect opportunity to change things to work on personal development to write that book to do all these things. But here’s the two barriers that I’m saying one is it’s so easy to not do jack shit.

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Jason Mefford: It’s very easy to just pull the covers up and want to stay in bed right

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kathygruver: It’s easier to just, you know, play video games all day and watch Netflix and play with a cat and sit in the garden, kind of just zone out, which is great. A little bit. We’ve talked about decent trading as much as we need to do that. And the other thing is I’m seeing so much fear and

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kathygruver: I’ll use the word depression, not a clinical depression, but I’m seeing so many people who are fearful of this right now. Is there sort of frozen in that so

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kathygruver: Yes, this is an amazing time to get stuff done. And I see all these barriers to that. And so that’s kind of what we’re going to talk about this morning.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, some different ways that you can kind of get past that fear because you know when you when you think about if you’ve ever seen like the the emotional spiral the upward spiral the downward spiral.

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Jason Mefford: At the very bottom of the downward spiral is fear and depression. And so, you know, again, if, if you’re still kind of stuck or feeling in that area. Right. You need to start being able to move yourself up out of that emotion and there’s some different ways you can do it right.

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Jason Mefford: So let’s go through, like I said, Let me. Let’s talk about that a little bit to begin with. And, you know, I’m sure. For the next few episodes, we’re going to be talking about some of this stuff too, because we want to give you tools.

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Jason Mefford: To help you, you know, take advantage of this opportunity. And when we come out of this that you’re a lot further ahead than the people who are just pulling the covers up over their head and not wanting to get out of bed. Yeah, absolutely.

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kathygruver: I think the other thing, too, was we were kind of touch on is talking about routines and sticking to those routines and so many of us, you know, I’m used to getting up doing my certain things.

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kathygruver: Getting to my office by 10 seeing clients all day, squeezing stuff in between clients. Well, now I have no reason to rush out of the house massage therapist not seeing anybody right now. So it’s important, I think, to keep those habits going to keep those routines to write stuff down

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kathygruver: My boyfriend. I have started actually like writing down what do we need to accomplish today. Let’s keep each other on track with that because it’s easy to not get anything done all day. So I think sticking to that.

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kathygruver: This is business hours just as if you would work from home. Normally, I think we just have to shift that that mindset for a lot of us.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and that is probably, you know, I mean, I’ve worked from home now for over eight years, right. So, I mean, if you’re going to get anything done working from home, you have to treat it.

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Jason Mefford: Just like you would going into an office right so there there has to be some of those routines of things that you do.

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Jason Mefford: Or else, like you said, You’re, you’re sitting around watching Netflix all day and all of a sudden you wake up three weeks later, and it’s like cheese. I haven’t gotten off the couch or my bed right I go from my

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Jason Mefford: from my bed to my couch to my bed, my couch kind of a thing and and you don’t end up getting stuff done.

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Yeah.

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kathygruver: My first tip would be continue to write stuff down we know we’ve covered this, I’m a list maker.

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kathygruver: I love my to do list and you know I have a running list. Now it’s actually in one of those magnet shopping list things that you’d put up on your fridge, a running list of things that I want to accomplish, and it’s more day to day I’m not trying to sit at this point, long term goals.

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kathygruver: Excuse me, I know I want to finish my book, but I’m not the headspace for that yet. So I know it’s there. It’s on my sort of mental to do list.

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kathygruver: I haven’t put the energy into it yet. I’m kind of just trying to figure out what this new normal is what I actually want to do moving forward because the other thing for both you and I are speaking gigs are stopped.

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kathygruver: So, so sort of all of my realities, you know, there’s no massage right now.

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kathygruver: Most of my hypnosis clients don’t want to come to the office. They don’t do it virtually so like

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kathygruver: The speaking gigs of stopped. So I’m really having to take a look at, you know, what is this new normal. And I find writing stuff down and so helpful because it helps me to organize thoughts. What is important. Going back to what Sarah Caputo talked about many episodes ago

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kathygruver: Having systems in place actually reviewed her handouts. The other day, again, as I was cleaning out my task so much so many of us are. So I think it’s important to to really wants cancer done. What do you want, and then start writing stuff down on that.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and I think that that’s that’s a great tip, you know, writing it down and also talking it out.

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Jason Mefford: Because, you know, again, as we talked about some, some of you may be experiencing some of these barriers, where you’re just kind of stuck in your head right

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Jason Mefford: And if you want to get out of your head. A couple of the best ways to do it as talk it out or write it out. And this is something that’s really easy. You can do wherever you are.

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Jason Mefford: Because you know what ends up happening is those thoughts just kind of keep going over and over and in our head.

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Jason Mefford: Excuse me, we have a thought which produces a feeling that feeling ends up if we keep in that thinking process and at that horizontal thinking level.

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Jason Mefford: Then you know the bad feeling leads to another bad thought which leads to another bad feeling which leads to another bad thought

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Jason Mefford: And that’s where that emotional spiral starts taking you down into that, you know, the bottom part that fear and depression side.

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Jason Mefford: So you’ve got to start, you know, changing some of those thoughts to be able to change your feelings and move yourself up.

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Jason Mefford: Right, so again. Yeah, if you’re starting if you’re having some of those feelings talking it out, literally saying it out loud to yourself, whether that’s to another person or to yourself.

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Jason Mefford: I talked to myself a lot in my office. Okay. But there’s something about literally verbalizing it and hearing yourself say at

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Jason Mefford: That a lot of times, things just kind of click. And the same thing happens when you actually, you know, write down pen and paper, you know, actually journal something out, you’re getting a lot of that that same stuff going, you’re getting that stuff out.

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kathygruver: And I think right now having all those feelings is totally normal, not to make those feelings not. I mean, there’s so many unknowns right now.

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kathygruver: And our brain is constantly scanning the environment, looking for things that are wrong, looking for threats, so that it can protect us from those. So with having so much upheaval and so many things going on, we’re all pretty much fight or flight, right now.

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kathygruver: Just because from day to day from newscast and newscast. You don’t know what we’re going to be hit with. So I think it’s totally natural to be having those feelings right now.

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kathygruver: And how can we turn those into something more productive. How can we turn that spiral.

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kathygruver: Upside down so that we’re spiraling up rather than spiraling down. I think you’re right. Starting to be able to gain control over those thoughts is

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kathygruver: Is probably one of the big keys to it. This is where the affirmations come in if you didn’t listen to our affirmation episode, go back and listen to that because I think that’ll be really helpful. Right now changing those negative thoughts to positive ones.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, because I think it’s, it’s interesting you know one of the things that I’ve, I’ve kind of learned through this as well, or that has become more apparent is

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Jason Mefford: You know, especially when we’re doing that downward spiral. We. What if all the time. What if I get the virus. What if I don’t have work. What if the money doesn’t come in, what if, what if, what if, right.

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Jason Mefford: And all of those things that I just said, or negative what ifs. Okay. Their things their stories that we’re telling ourselves about how the future will be

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Jason Mefford: And how negative and horrible. We think it’s going to be one of the things you can do is swap them around. What if positive instead. Right.

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Jason Mefford: Because because starting to ask yourself those what ifs that are positive is going to start giving you those better thoughts which is going to raise your feeling level as well. Right.

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Jason Mefford: And so back

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kathygruver: Going back to something that I think it was Mike mendell said if you ask your brain a question. It’s going to look for that answer. It doesn’t like that open loop.

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kathygruver: So if you say, What if everything goes wrong, your brains going to look for all that stuff that’s going wrong.

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kathygruver: Whereas if you say, What if I take this opportunity to build my business. What if I take this time to get close to my family. What if I take this time to rest to stretch to exercise to what it

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kathygruver: Then you’re going to start to look for those positive things and it’s you know it’s like your search engine on your computer, you’re going to

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kathygruver: Find what you type into that search bar. And if you look for lack and fear and negativity. That’s what you’re going to find. You’re not going to find positivity. That’s about programming yourself. I didn’t want to jump in.

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Jason Mefford: No, because I was gonna say. I mean, we can take, let’s take one of those negative what ifs that I just sat right. What if I get the coronavirus

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Jason Mefford: Okay, because I’m sure a lot of you are saying that you’re worrying about that. Oh my gosh, what is going to happen if I get sick. But let me just stop you there and say, but you know what, what if you don’t get it.

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Jason Mefford: Huh, what if you don’t get it. Because what I’ll tell you, statistically speaking, and everything else, right, you’re much more likely to not get this

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Jason Mefford: Than to get this, so why not. What if yourself into a positive space and and use or create those stories about how this is going to be the positives, the opportunities that can come from this because you’re probably not going to get it right.

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Jason Mefford: Right, I mean,

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kathygruver: The other thing about that is stress depletes our immune system.

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kathygruver: So we are, the more we worried about getting sick, the more apt we are to get sick. I say this every cold and flu season and not just with Kobe.

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kathygruver: It’s like the more we worry about something, the more we deplete our immune system we have this all this chemical cascade happening that’s not healthy for us. So if you’re worried about it. You’re actually not helping yourself not get it so

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Jason Mefford: You’re actually increasing the likelihood that you will

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kathygruver: Right, right.

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kathygruver: And there’s it comes to self fulfilling prophecy of who’s, who told you was going to get it. And then everything else that’s negative has to be true, too. So we have to kind of just put a stop in that thinking throw a

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kathygruver: Wheel that turns. They put that thing in that stops the, what is that called

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Jason Mefford: A spanner in the flywheel right you throw well

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kathygruver: That’s a hell. Okay.

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Jason Mefford: It’s it’s a British term for throwing a wrench in the wheel. While is turning but yeah

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Jason Mefford: spanner a spanner is a

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Jason Mefford: English term for a wrench.

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Jason Mefford: Oh, sorry, random shit for you today.

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kathygruver: alistair’s here somewhere. Anyway, okay, yes, we’re going to put

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kathygruver: Why, we’ll

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Jason Mefford: Just stop it. But, you know, because again, like I said, start to teach yourself or train yourself when you’re having those negative thoughts. What if this bad thing happens.

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Jason Mefford: Well, what if instead of good thing happens because it’s just as likely if not more likely that the good thing will happen.

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Jason Mefford: And the more you can say that the more you can think that the more you’re going to end up feeling that, and you’re going to notice yourself going up the emotional spiral instead

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Jason Mefford: And again, you know, you don’t you don’t jump immediately from like fear to joy on the top end

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Jason Mefford: But you move yourself up slowly. Yeah right and and just like you move yourself down slowly you move yourself up slowly. And so you start having other thoughts that are going to create these better and better feelings and get you out of where you’re currently at right

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kathygruver: And you know, we have all these events and there are just things we decide whether they’re positive or negative. We decide with how we think about them.

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kathygruver: Whether they’re good or bad. I mean, there are just things and there’s, I think I said this parable about the title you have, I use the parable, but the farmer and the horse and the son who breaks his arm.

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Jason Mefford: I just I just reread that this week so so yeah let’s let’s talk about that because that’s a great one. Right.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. Maybe, maybe not.

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Jason Mefford: We’ll see.

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Jason Mefford: Right. Okay, so tell the story. This is a great story.

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kathygruver: I love this. So there’s a farmer. He has one son. He has one horse. He has this large field. And one day.

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kathygruver: The town, people come to him and they say, Oh, this is so horrible. You’ve got all this opportunity, but you’ve only got, you know, you’ve got so little help. And the guy says, we’ll see.

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kathygruver: So the next day, all these wild horses show up on his farm and the village comes around. They’re like, Oh my gosh, this is so great, you know, have all these horses and the farmer says we’ll see

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kathygruver: The sun gets on one of the horses to treat basically train it in terms of what to do.

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kathygruver: The horse throws the sun. The sun falls and breaks his arm. The town gathers around. Oh my god, this is the most horrible thing ever. It was on your one son he broke his arm is so terrible. And the farmer says we’ll see

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kathygruver: The next day, the Army comes around and takes all young men to go off into war that they can’t take the sun because he broke his arm. It’s in the village gathers around is is oh, we’re so lucky. Your son broke his arm will see as a very truncated version of that because a lot

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kathygruver: A lot but

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kathygruver: I mean, it’s that thing. It’s like I have so many clients who are cancer survivors who said the best thing that ever happened in that was getting cancer.

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kathygruver: Because it allowed them to grow closer to their family allowed them to learn more about themselves allowed them to deepen their spirituality, whatever it is.

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kathygruver: Not saying we should all run out, give

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kathygruver: The positive thing.

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kathygruver: But we have to look at these these things as opportunities. You know, I get to finish my book I get to do more online stuff. I get to grow closer and my relationship. I get to, you know, I got a trapeze in my living room now probably wouldn’t have that

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kathygruver: So it’s really an opportunity

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kathygruver: To find the good stuff in this and it is about taking all this as an opportunity, as opposed to a roadblock. And that’s what I think we have to shift our focus on. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Been in because we tend to always look at the negative side right you know that that I know that there’s probably many of you out there listening that, you know, rewind to three months ago.

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Jason Mefford: You were saying to yourself, Oh my gosh, I’m working so much. I’m working long hours. I wish I had more time to spend with my family.

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Jason Mefford: Well guess what, now you have more time to spend with your family. So are you grateful for the more time that you have to spend with your family and are you taking advantage of that opportunity.

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Jason Mefford: Or you still carrying forward that negative mindset and now instead of saying, I wish I could spend more time with my family. You’re saying, Oh my gosh, these people are driving me crazy. Let me go back to work. Right.

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Jason Mefford: So if, again, if you’re carrying some of those negative feelings forward then just kind of stop and try to be present in the moment, be grateful for what you have

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Jason Mefford: You know, this is it’s a it’s a great opportunity actually last night. We did a little zoom call with some of our family over in Australia because our niece had a birthday yesterday.

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Jason Mefford: Well, she couldn’t have a birthday party. And so instead of just, you know, some of the family in Australia, having a party with her a dinner with her.

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Jason Mefford: We had everybody on from all over the world, actually, you know, spent an hour talking on a zoom call. Yeah. Now that’s an opportunity we hadn’t done that before. It’s not that we couldn’t have done it.

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kathygruver: Right, exactly.

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Jason Mefford: But the situation wasn’t such that we thought, hey, maybe we should all get on a video call together now going forward. Again, that’s an opportunity, it’s an opportunity for us to reconnect.

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Jason Mefford: Going forward, maybe we’re going to do more of that as well, which again is one of these opportunities that you have anytime there’s a such a situation like this that happens.

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Jason Mefford: We can kind of stop and assess and decide do we want to do something different.

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Jason Mefford: Going forward, yeah. Because that’s kind of what we’re talking about at the beginning to most of your daily routines just got knocked up right

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Jason Mefford: And so at this point you can decide, are there things about your daily routine that you want to change if there are now is a great opportunity to change them.

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Jason Mefford: But, you know, Kathy, like you said, If you already had these good routines. You need to keep those going as well because if those things were helping you in the past are going to help you now as well. So continue to do

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kathygruver: Yeah, and

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kathygruver: We will do will do a different episode on adaptability. But, I mean, we are all having to pivot.

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kathygruver: Even people who still have their jobs there now maybe either busier or they’re not as busy or they’re having to do their job from home or well we can’t exercise at the gym. So now we’re doing online stuff and

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kathygruver: I had a virtual cocktail party with girlfriends from high school last night. We’ve never done that. There was nothing like you said, with your family. There’s nothing that would have stopped us previously from doing that.

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kathygruver: And now we’re all kind of like, why are we not doing this every week. You know, I know we have more time to do that. I would normally know I’m working. I don’t have time to do that. But we’ve now we’re trying to drink from a fire hose.

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kathygruver: So we wanted that time with the family. Now all we have is time with

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kathygruver: Very a lot of people losing their mind. So, but what does that balance point at some point the pendulum is going to swing back to that center point.

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kathygruver: And when we come through this, it’s going to be a new normal. And we’re going to get to choose which of these things we keep doing

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kathygruver: Do we have a weekly zoom with our family, do we keep cocktail parties going virtually with people all over the world.

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kathygruver: Do we have an hour of dedicated family time a day or two hours or three hours. You know, I think we’re going to have choices to make, when this is all over of what of this buffet of

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kathygruver: Shit, and good stuff that we’ve been thrown in the last couple weeks. What do we get to pull from that that we want to hang on to. So I think that’s we’re gonna have to come to that place of balance of what do we want to keep in our lives. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and you have the choice. So, you know, again, this is a great opportunity for you to actually start doing some of that stuff. Right.

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Jason Mefford: So what are we talking about today. What are some things right, you know, if you don’t you don’t remember, try to do a little recap here for people. Right. So again, you know, many of you may be kind of stuck in your mind right now.

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Jason Mefford: And you may be spiraling down you’re having these negative. What if thoughts that’s leading to negative feelings is leading to more negative thoughts that’s leading to more negative feelings. Right.

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Jason Mefford: And you’re kind of feel yourself spiraling down at times. So when we feel that way. There’s some things we can do right talk it out, write it out.

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Jason Mefford: Either you know, write it down, talk it out with us to yourself or to somebody else, because that actually helps you become more conscious

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Jason Mefford: Of what you’re actually feeling and thinking and allows you to now place conscious thoughts in there, those positive, whatevs. To be able to help you to start moving, moving up the emotional spiral. Yeah.

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kathygruver: And that helps you vent out those emotions. You’re not just stuffing them and hanging on to them so relying on family and friends for support. I mean, that’s all they have is time right now to give you

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kathygruver: So reach out and tap into that. The other thing is keep writing stuff down know what you want. Write it down.

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kathygruver: Making sure you’re sticking to your routine and trying to find that place of balance. You know, we can still step outside and take a deep breath.

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kathygruver: I know around the country, a lot of Parks and beaches and things are starting to close, which I think so unfortunate because you know there’s a park within walking distance from the house, and that’s where we’ve been going and if they close that that’s going to be a bummer. I get it.

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kathygruver: You know, the couple people who aren’t obeying the rules are, kind of, you know, maybe messing it up, but you can still step outside your door and take a deep breath.

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kathygruver: And, you know, this might be a great time to plant some some things in pots and garden and, you know, anything you can do to

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kathygruver: Keep it as normal as possible. Moving into this new normal. So yeah, I think it was a was a smattering of things today, but I think we at least kicked off some tidbits of tips that will help people get through this a little bit better.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, cuz you know, again, like you said, if you’ve been saying you’ve been wanting to do something.

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Jason Mefford: Then do it. So I know a lot of you listening are like, Oh, I wish I could exercise more. Well, now you have the opportunity

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Jason Mefford: And even if the parks are closed, you can still go outside and walk on your street just social distance yourself from people, you know, in our parks. Over here we’ve got their signs, you know that show

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Jason Mefford: You know practice social distancing and it shows a picture of two people walking, you know, in front and behind and

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Jason Mefford: Big, big nose sign next to people walking side by side, you know,

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Jason Mefford: And it’s like, Okay, whatever. You can still get outside, you can still do some of these things, you know, prison is a mindset kind of thing anyway. Yeah.

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kathygruver: And you can still socialize.

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Jason Mefford: You can still socialize.

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kathygruver: Should I are in two different parts of the

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kathygruver: Country and we’re having this conversation with you all right now. So, yeah.

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kathygruver: Yes. And once again, we’ve blown

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Jason Mefford: blown through our time. So, look at, look at you know this as a time of opportunity, you know, think about some of the things that you might want to change habits that you want to drop habits that you want to develop

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Jason Mefford: But really take advantage of this time, don’t be that person who just doesn’t want to get out of bed and just pulls their head up over their covers

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Jason Mefford: Because if you get out of that if you do those things.

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Jason Mefford: And you’re developing yourself during this time when we get back to the new normal. You’re going to be way further ahead of everybody else that was just stuck in bed.

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kathygruver: And then you’ll have a choice.

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Jason Mefford: And you’ll have a choice. Okay, excellent.

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kathygruver: All right, I am Kathy Gruber. I can be reached at Kathy Griffin calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm and we’ll catch you on a future episode of the fire and earth podcast. See, yeah.

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Yeah.