I’ve heard it takes 10,000 hours of practice to make you an expert. That’s a lot of time.
In fact it’s so much time that people often throw their hands up in the air and don’t even try.
But actually with some ninja tricks, you can do it in much less time, since after all I’m guessing you don’t have 5+ years to your career to the next level.
I’m sure you’d like much quicker results, right?
Becoming an expert does require time, dedication, and investing in yourself.
Consistency each day, each week, each month of practice in even as little as 10-15 minutes. Even 5 minutes a day is more than 80% of people spend investing in themselves.
I did a podcast last year about two men I call the “gods of the strings” Itzhak Perlman and Jimi Hendricks that you will find helpful. We can learn a lot from these two about becoming an expert.
Neither of these men became an expert over night, but both of them were committed to daily practice. They did the little things each day, and over the course of weeks, months, and years they became expert.
You see you can read all of the books you want, but until you start implementing and exercising the knowledge until it becomes a competency you won’t become an expert.
That’s why especially for leadership, you don’t need to read another book, you need to join a leadership program where the rubber hits the road and you consistently practice the concepts and learn the ninja tricks so you get quicker results.
You already understand the benefit of investing in yourself or you wouldn’t be reading this email.
What are you going to start doing different this week?
Get a VIP backstage pass and behind the scenes information when you join the VIP Lounge with Jason Mefford: https://www.jasonmefford.com/vip/
In todays episode we’re joined with Robert Berry to discuss how to ask better questions. By asking better questions we will end up getting better answers which will allow us to perform better audits.
From overcoming the fear of looking stupid or the fear of failing, to taking an interest in the people around you, you will be able to communicate better with others and thus ask better questions and advance your career!
1 00:00:01.439 –> 00:00:10.800 Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of jamming with Jason hey today we’re going to be talking about something that really should be common sense.
2 00:00:11.340 –> 00:00:17.490 Jason Mefford: But the reason we’re talking about it is it’s not common sense right people don’t actually apply it.
3 00:00:18.119 –> 00:00:35.130 Jason Mefford: The way they should and today i’m going to be talking with Robert berry and we’re going to be talking about how to ask better questions get better answers and consequently help you perform better audits so with that let’s roll that episode.
4 00:00:37.500 –> 00:00:48.810 Jason Mefford: hey Robert it’s great to have you here man, you know I I say this is, I mean you even said it before is before we got started right hey what we’re going to talk about today should be common sense and it should be.
5 00:00:51.360 –> 00:00:57.420 Robert Berry: It should be, but I tell you what my grandmother used to say if common sense will come and everybody would have it.
6 00:00:57.720 –> 00:01:00.390 Jason Mefford: Well, I know you know I love the you know.
7 00:01:02.190 –> 00:01:07.320 Jason Mefford: I wanted to sit down and just be with your grandma for a while, because you’ve got some great grandma quotes.
8 00:01:07.830 –> 00:01:15.990 Jason Mefford: it’s you know it’s the same thing I remember my first day I think it was undergrad management course in college.
9 00:01:16.530 –> 00:01:27.330 Jason Mefford: Right and that’s what the Professor said he said all semester we’re just going to be talking about common sense, so why do we, why are we talking about it, because people don’t practice common sense.
10 00:01:27.690 –> 00:01:28.620 Robert Berry: Absolutely.
11 00:01:28.950 –> 00:01:41.460 Jason Mefford: So let’s get into I know that you, you wrote a recent book called ask better questions get better answers and perform better audits and so i’m excited to get into that because.
12 00:01:42.360 –> 00:01:59.550 Jason Mefford: i’m Like you, I think you know, the quality of our life is really dependent on how good a questions we ask and a lot of times we don’t really get taught how to ask good questions so where should we start where should we jump in on this and have some fun today together.
13 00:02:00.360 –> 00:02:07.950 Robert Berry: You know Okay, so we can start with why in the world, do we not ask good questions.
14 00:02:09.030 –> 00:02:14.340 Robert Berry: There are a lot of barriers, I think the biggest barrier, though, is fear.
15 00:02:15.720 –> 00:02:24.540 Robert Berry: I think we fear being judged, we fear people thinking that we’re stupid, we fear that people will look at us a certain way.
16 00:02:25.080 –> 00:02:33.780 Robert Berry: And I think that’s one of the biggest barriers that we have to asking questions, especially for those auditors who are fresh out of school.
17 00:02:34.740 –> 00:02:48.360 Robert Berry: Especially for those fresh out of school working for one of the big firms, because oftentimes what they do is they say go to the client and show up here your objectives and now you’re just thrown to the wolves so.
18 00:02:49.890 –> 00:03:01.590 Robert Berry: You have to first remove fear from people and I tell people all the time there’s more to asking questions than just asking questions it’s a whole lot more to it.
19 00:03:02.310 –> 00:03:18.450 Robert Berry: And that fear once you once it sets even if you don’t have someone to encourage you then you’ll be stuck for a few years in your career paralyzed with fear, so the question becomes, how do you overcome it.
20 00:03:19.590 –> 00:03:24.030 Jason Mefford: Well, and I, because I know you were talking about you know, especially entry level people.
21 00:03:24.300 –> 00:03:28.050 Jason Mefford: Oh yeah, but I see it, a lot too and working with chief out of the executives.
22 00:03:28.050 –> 00:03:35.550 Jason Mefford: Because it’s kind of a different level of fear, at that point, it still goes back to that root cause that you brought up, which is.
23 00:03:35.910 –> 00:03:44.490 Jason Mefford: Well, if I asked questions don’t I look stupid and like I don’t know what i’m talking about right and people fear that in fact that’s one of the two.
24 00:03:45.150 –> 00:04:06.480 Jason Mefford: Big psychological fears that people have subconsciously is is it kind of goes back to that imposter syndrome right that if I asked questions than that assumes I don’t know something, and people are going to find out that maybe i’m not as smart, as I want them to think I am.
25 00:04:08.970 –> 00:04:13.110 Robert Berry: But it begs the question what is wrong with not knowing something.
26 00:04:13.530 –> 00:04:14.850 Jason Mefford: Absolutely nothing.
27 00:04:15.630 –> 00:04:25.470 Robert Berry: Right what is wrong with not know, and this is, this is what I tell people and you’re right, it does extend the chief audit executive to anyone.
28 00:04:26.010 –> 00:04:37.770 Robert Berry: But here’s the deal, if you don’t know something but you’re smart enough to recognize that you don’t know it, and then you seek out the answer doesn’t that make you smart.
29 00:04:39.720 –> 00:04:45.240 Jason Mefford: Well, it doesn’t it show people that you’re willing to learn as well and you’re not an arrogant prick.
30 00:04:47.310 –> 00:04:50.160 Jason Mefford: On the other side too, I mean when you think about it the other way right.
31 00:04:50.340 –> 00:04:54.720 Jason Mefford: yeah if you’re never asking questions, could you feel like you always know it.
32 00:04:55.170 –> 00:04:58.800 Jason Mefford: doesn’t that make you seem like a know it all to other people to.
33 00:04:59.310 –> 00:05:06.060 Jason Mefford: Exactly, and I think that’s just as bad or worse than having people realize that you don’t know everything.
34 00:05:06.600 –> 00:05:26.310 Robert Berry: yeah it is and and well without without giving it all away even in the book I cover the five critical elements to quality questions, so I think that there are five elements every question should have, in order for it to be effective i’m not gonna give the secret away.
35 00:05:26.580 –> 00:05:27.570 Jason Mefford: You got to go to work.
36 00:05:28.200 –> 00:05:39.750 Robert Berry: Right right, but I do think that fear is the biggest barrier, I even cover barriers to asking good questions and the number one barrier that I see with all of us.
37 00:05:40.140 –> 00:05:56.970 Robert Berry: Is that fear of looking stupid or that fear of not being good enough for or that fear of not knowing, but if you think about the entire job of an auditor is to ask questions How else can you do an objective assessment if you don’t ask questions.
38 00:05:57.990 –> 00:06:09.480 Robert Berry: If you know it all then that’s not really objective because you’re going in with your preconceived thoughts and your preconceived notion about an organization or department or even a person so.
39 00:06:10.500 –> 00:06:21.450 Robert Berry: But, but you know you have to get over that fear don’t worry about what people think about you, who cares if they whisper he didn’t know what whatever was you know so.
40 00:06:23.070 –> 00:06:25.830 Jason Mefford: But how do I mean because, again, you know, like you said.
41 00:06:26.370 –> 00:06:34.410 Jason Mefford: Fear is probably one of one of, if not the biggest thing holding us back from asking questions, how do we get over that fear.
42 00:06:36.330 –> 00:06:48.480 Robert Berry: Well, I think the first thing is, you have to embrace failure fear comes about because people don’t want to fail at something they don’t want to fail at looking smart.
43 00:06:49.350 –> 00:07:09.090 Robert Berry: or they don’t want to fail at their job when you are not afraid to fail, the fear just kind of dissipates because now that’s the biggest fear that people have is failure of something, and if you embrace it and recognize that it’s an opportunity to learn, then what can scare you.
44 00:07:10.650 –> 00:07:18.420 Robert Berry: And a lot of times, people will try to use tactics to scare you into doing things that they want you to do.
45 00:07:20.070 –> 00:07:21.000 Robert Berry: I remember.
46 00:07:22.980 –> 00:07:24.420 Robert Berry: I remember having.
47 00:07:25.830 –> 00:07:40.020 Robert Berry: an audit client who was high up in an organization was unhappy with the results of the audit now somehow That was my fault, because one of his employees was stealing and the audit caught it but somehow That was my fault right.
48 00:07:40.530 –> 00:07:52.890 Robert Berry: Okay, was unhappy with the results of the audit and try to threaten me in order to get me to remove specific items from the audit port and the.
49 00:07:54.120 –> 00:08:04.980 Robert Berry: On a real, serious note what was said to me, was extremely the grading and was supposed to be something that was supposed to make me afraid, but he said.
50 00:08:05.640 –> 00:08:20.940 Robert Berry: Well, you know you do need this job don’t you, you know, in one of those times like I can have your job, you can be fired and whoo I was supposed to be afraid i’m now tell you what I said to him.
51 00:08:23.070 –> 00:08:29.820 Robert Berry: What I said to him, probably frightened him more than the fear, he was trying to impose on me, but I actually meant it.
52 00:08:30.480 –> 00:08:39.300 Robert Berry: I said to him, you know you can make threats, you can try to take away my livelihood, but it really doesn’t matter I can find another job.
53 00:08:39.600 –> 00:08:51.000 Robert Berry: And besides there’s nothing that you can do to scare me I grew up in the hood where I saw people being murdered shot and stabbed so there’s nothing you can show me and so.
54 00:08:51.450 –> 00:09:00.240 Robert Berry: When he saw that there was no fear in me he left me alone i’m not saying go tell us to go tell a gangster story to your your audit clients.
55 00:09:00.360 –> 00:09:02.520 Jason Mefford: Especially if you what if you didn’t go through that.
56 00:09:02.880 –> 00:09:05.520 Robert Berry: Right right but, but I do think to.
57 00:09:07.050 –> 00:09:19.800 Robert Berry: A lot of the times, having not having fear of certain things helped me in my career, but also when I have been afraid I in hindsight, I see where it is hindered me.
58 00:09:20.460 –> 00:09:27.060 Robert Berry: um you know I i’ve been at a high level in audit, since I was in my mid 20s I just thought.
59 00:09:27.570 –> 00:09:34.800 Robert Berry: My career progression was normal I didn’t realize, most people don’t progress like that, but a lot of it was because.
60 00:09:35.430 –> 00:09:45.750 Robert Berry: You know, when you grow up seeing some of the things that I saw you you don’t really have that much fear you you’re not afraid to ask questions you don’t care if people think you’re stupid you just don’t care.
61 00:09:46.200 –> 00:09:51.990 Robert Berry: Because you’ve seen the worst that LIFE has to offer so there’s nothing anyone can do or say that makes you afraid at this point.
62 00:09:53.430 –> 00:09:55.620 Jason Mefford: Well it’s interesting because you know.
63 00:09:57.660 –> 00:10:05.280 Jason Mefford: I don’t know if you’ve heard this before, but you know fear is can also be false expectations appearing real right some people will.
64 00:10:05.700 –> 00:10:21.300 Jason Mefford: Will kind of break it down into an acronym like that, because you know, again, I mean you shared the story about the guy really kind of threatening you, you need this job don’t you well you know, at the end of the day, if you lose your job you’re not dead right.
65 00:10:21.630 –> 00:10:30.480 Jason Mefford: Right you’re not dead, so you go find another job what’s The worst thing that can actually happen, maybe you have to go find a new job okay.
66 00:10:31.140 –> 00:10:41.580 Jason Mefford: Right it’s not the end of the world and that’s where you know, again, I mean like you said, I think this is a great great quote, that you know, we need to embrace failure.
67 00:10:42.210 –> 00:10:54.030 Jason Mefford: and realize or see it as an opportunity to learn right, one of the things that i’ve always been taught is there is no failure, there is only feedback.
68 00:10:55.260 –> 00:11:08.040 Jason Mefford: And as long as you’re willing, a cow i’ll muffle up the Winston Churchill quote but it was you know something about that you, you never really fail unless you don’t get up again yeah.
69 00:11:08.220 –> 00:11:10.440 Jason Mefford: Right, as long as you’re still getting up.
70 00:11:11.130 –> 00:11:25.710 Jason Mefford: You haven’t failed now you’ve figured out if you got pushed to the ground hey that way doesn’t work, maybe i’m going to do it, a different way going forward, but you haven’t failed if you’re continuing to try right.
71 00:11:26.250 –> 00:11:29.610 Robert Berry: yeah well and i’ll take a different approach to it to.
72 00:11:30.810 –> 00:11:48.300 Robert Berry: The only real failure is not trying at all, and you know, to give an example, I remember, years ago, so, so I grew up in the southeastern United States and had not really seen mountains or anything like that, and many, many, many years ago.
73 00:11:49.380 –> 00:11:51.270 Robert Berry: I worked for Deloitte and had.
74 00:11:51.840 –> 00:12:02.760 Robert Berry: had the opportunity to travel a lot and on those travel weekends, you could either go back home or you could go anywhere, as long as the price was cheaper than going back home.
75 00:12:03.540 –> 00:12:13.890 Robert Berry: And I would explore the country I would go places by myself and just go one place, I always love was Denver, and I remember the first time I saw a mountain.
76 00:12:14.970 –> 00:12:19.920 Robert Berry: You know, Big Mountain covered with snow and people skiing down it really, really fast.
77 00:12:22.410 –> 00:12:24.870 Jason Mefford: that’s a foreign concept for the southeastern us.
78 00:12:25.350 –> 00:12:26.820 Robert Berry: Right so.
79 00:12:27.930 –> 00:12:43.290 Robert Berry: i’m standing down at the bottom of this just a small mountain and we were going to go mountain climbing i’d never been mountain climbing before and i’m looking up and i’m thinking yeah I don’t think I really want to do is, but then I thought about it.
80 00:12:44.850 –> 00:12:51.630 Robert Berry: Even if I just took one step up the mountain that’s still a success because the point of failure.
81 00:12:52.230 –> 00:13:04.920 Robert Berry: is right there where you’re standing there trying to make that critical decision if you walk away then you’ve actually failed, but if you cross that line you automatically cross the point of failure so.
82 00:13:05.640 –> 00:13:17.100 Robert Berry: The only point of failure is not starting at all as soon as you start you’ve crossed the failure point you’ve crossed that failure line and I just I keep thinking about that, so I did climb that mountain.
83 00:13:18.480 –> 00:13:24.720 Robert Berry: It was cold, it was interesting, but I did it and I didn’t get very high.
84 00:13:26.010 –> 00:13:33.120 Robert Berry: But as soon as I made took that first step failure was gone it’s not failure anymore, because at least tried.
85 00:13:34.230 –> 00:13:36.750 Jason Mefford: Well, and a lot of times, I know I know for me personally.
86 00:13:37.890 –> 00:13:46.560 Jason Mefford: Some of the things that i’ve been the most scared of or the most afraid of what i’ve actually done it and i’ve accomplished it.
87 00:13:47.100 –> 00:13:57.870 Jason Mefford: Man the sense of euphoria and and the sense the feeling of success that you get from going through some of those experiences is indescribable.
88 00:13:58.620 –> 00:14:08.700 Jason Mefford: Right, I mean it’s it’s like indescribable, but if you never take that first step, you never get to see what that feels like either right.
89 00:14:09.630 –> 00:14:24.930 Jason Mefford: So Okay, so we got to get rid of fear, we got to you know quit thinking that asking questions means that we’re stupid or we don’t know what we’re talking about what are some other things that people need to do to kind of start asking better questions.
90 00:14:26.250 –> 00:14:39.390 Robert Berry: Well, I think one big thing is, you have to get to know people and one example I use is in his book how to click rick kirshner.
91 00:14:39.930 –> 00:14:50.850 Robert Berry: He said that there are three things that we know about people before they even open their mouths and watch i’m going to forget one of them, because we didn’t practice this now.
92 00:14:51.510 –> 00:14:52.230 Robert Berry: We didn’t but.
93 00:14:52.530 –> 00:14:55.770 Robert Berry: But the first thing he says is that people.
94 00:14:56.880 –> 00:14:58.260 Robert Berry: like to hear themselves talk.
95 00:14:59.370 –> 00:15:11.280 Robert Berry: which you know we all do, and then he said that people are drawn to people who listen to them and, of course, yeah forgot the third one.
96 00:15:11.850 –> 00:15:30.390 Robert Berry: But, in essence, he was saying, when you get to know people and you take an interest in them, then it makes it easier for you to communicate with those folks and and I love that book I think i’ve read it three times because you, the more comfortable people are with you.
97 00:15:32.190 –> 00:15:43.110 Robert Berry: The more apt, they are to answer to answer questions that you ask and the more comfortable, they are with you, the better the answers that they will give so for auditors.
98 00:15:43.650 –> 00:15:55.500 Robert Berry: You know a lot of times, the only time we see clients is when it’s time for an audit it doesn’t make sense start walking around don’t be confined to your cubicle or to your zoom nowadays.
99 00:15:55.620 –> 00:15:56.550 Jason Mefford: Your zoom chair.
100 00:15:57.060 –> 00:16:05.010 Robert Berry: yeah your zoom chair get to know them walk around and meet them talk to them and, and I say in every company.
101 00:16:05.880 –> 00:16:11.670 Robert Berry: You always have like some sub industry right, you have the huge industry that you’re in, but you have sub industries.
102 00:16:12.150 –> 00:16:18.330 Robert Berry: Follow the news related to those sub industries, and when you see something that intrigued you shoot your client and email.
103 00:16:18.570 –> 00:16:25.500 Robert Berry: hey I saw that this new law is going to change how’s that going to affect you guys spark a conversation with them, or just asked.
104 00:16:26.100 –> 00:16:35.730 Robert Berry: hey I saw this new law has changed, do you guys need some help with anything if the only time your clients see you, is when you’re doing, and I mean you’re doing something wrong.
105 00:16:37.350 –> 00:16:46.980 Jason Mefford: Well, and because I mean that goes back to classic relationship kind of building to right is if the only time somebody sees you are the only time that someone calls you.
106 00:16:47.580 –> 00:16:53.340 Jason Mefford: Is when they need something well you haven’t really developed a relationship with that person right.
107 00:16:53.910 –> 00:17:06.930 Jason Mefford: And i’m sure everybody who’s listening, you know when I say you know there’s people that are givers and there’s people that are takers and i’m sure, a lot of names pop into your head, you know, I have some family members as an example.
108 00:17:07.320 –> 00:17:17.490 Jason Mefford: yeah that only text or call me when they want something right so obviously when they’re calling, and they want something, but they haven’t taken any time.
109 00:17:18.030 –> 00:17:27.870 Jason Mefford: To strengthen or develop the relationship with me beforehand, the answer is usually no right, because then I feel used.
110 00:17:28.380 –> 00:17:35.010 Jason Mefford: You know I feel like they’re just take take take take taking and and that’s not how we want to do so that’s a great.
111 00:17:35.610 –> 00:17:42.990 Jason Mefford: Great suggestion for people to actually reach out it’s a way to ask questions, but in in the way that you’re doing it to it also helps you.
112 00:17:43.440 –> 00:17:58.590 Jason Mefford: In kind of understanding hey there’s this new law, how we did have you guys heard about it, what are you planning to do, and if the answer is no and no ding ding ding right well there might be another risk in your organization that you should consider taking a look at.
113 00:17:59.460 –> 00:18:10.650 Robert Berry: When the other benefit of doing that is now you get to you get to do what I call, one of the best audits to do one of the best audits to do is the audit that you never have to do.
114 00:18:11.220 –> 00:18:25.350 Robert Berry: So you’re up front here, and you guys are working through an issue you can check that off as an insurance engagement, because now you’ve done some work to help them mitigate the risk, without having to come in and doing do an audit.
115 00:18:25.770 –> 00:18:38.250 Robert Berry: And there’s so many benefits to that because, first of all those engagements are actually shorter than audit engagements and they build goodwill with your clients, so I think that’s extremely important.
116 00:18:38.820 –> 00:18:47.550 Jason Mefford: Well, and i’m guessing to you know kind of back to the three things that you were talking about the people that we know about people right they like to hear themselves talk.
117 00:18:48.150 –> 00:18:56.490 Jason Mefford: And we’re drawn to people that actually listened to us, I think those are two things that can be very easily applied to what we’re talking about right.
118 00:18:56.790 –> 00:19:04.620 Jason Mefford: Because I know I was always taught if you don’t know anything about somebody like if you go to a cocktail party or something like that, where it’s just.
119 00:19:05.640 –> 00:19:08.760 Jason Mefford: they’re awkward, especially for those of us that are introverts right.
120 00:19:09.030 –> 00:19:12.360 Jason Mefford: yeah well if you don’t know what to talk about ask a question.
121 00:19:13.080 –> 00:19:26.490 Jason Mefford: about the other person and and that should get them talking because, again, people like to talk about themselves, even though none of us like to admit it, we all do, to a certain extent.
122 00:19:27.330 –> 00:19:39.510 Jason Mefford: And then, by by actively listening to what they’re saying using some of these follow up reframe questions along the way people feel heard.
123 00:19:40.230 –> 00:19:54.810 Jason Mefford: And because they feel heard they actually deepen or or have a connection with you because they feel validated it’s actually a way to develop the relationship and deepen it as well.
124 00:19:55.110 –> 00:20:00.900 Robert Berry: So absolutely and I just remember the third thing The third thing was people.
125 00:20:02.640 –> 00:20:06.450 Robert Berry: Oh people want to be heard and understood.
126 00:20:07.020 –> 00:20:14.400 Robert Berry: uh huh so but funny story you say about when you’re at a party you just ask people questions okay so.
127 00:20:15.480 –> 00:20:18.510 Robert Berry: I remember again back in the day when I worked for Deloitte.
128 00:20:20.070 –> 00:20:27.210 Robert Berry: I had never been to like big swanky business parties, but when you work in public accounting.
129 00:20:27.450 –> 00:20:28.620 Robert Berry: that’s more of a job.
130 00:20:29.160 –> 00:20:35.100 Robert Berry: yeah so I remember the first big swanky shindig we went to.
131 00:20:35.700 –> 00:20:46.650 Robert Berry: I had no idea what to talk about with people you know there were people talking about their money their boats their yachts like Okay, well, I have none of that i’ve seen them on TV, but I have none of that.
132 00:20:47.160 –> 00:20:56.490 Robert Berry: And I remember it well, and then, believe it or not, I was a shy introvert i’m still a rather shy introverted can’t your tail but.
133 00:20:57.960 –> 00:21:13.590 Robert Berry: But at the party I remember I kept saying the same three or four questions over and over again, I would say so tell me about you and then, when they would start talking I would shake my head and listen and I would say.
134 00:21:14.250 –> 00:21:25.800 Robert Berry: That sounds interesting and then they would say more, and then I would say, oh boy, that is exciting and I was being genuine the things that they were saying really were excited.
135 00:21:25.830 –> 00:21:28.560 Jason Mefford: You weren’t sarcastic and they were like Richard over slapping you.
136 00:21:28.560 –> 00:21:31.260 Robert Berry: Right right I wasn’t being sarcastic but.
137 00:21:31.710 –> 00:21:33.210 Robert Berry: What ended up happening was.
138 00:21:34.350 –> 00:21:44.670 Robert Berry: They went back and told the partners that I was the most interesting person that they’d ever met and I promised you I did not share a detail about my life with any of them.
139 00:21:45.360 –> 00:21:57.270 Robert Berry: And that’s when it started clicking the meals quite a bit and I didn’t do anything I just asked them about themselves because I didn’t know what to do now, thankfully, that looked good to the partners.
140 00:21:57.990 –> 00:22:18.360 Robert Berry: For me, but I didn’t do anything I didn’t disclose anything, it was just really you do this oh wow tell me more about that that is so interesting how did you end up doing this means this person after person after person now I can laugh at it, because I didn’t know what I was doing.
141 00:22:18.570 –> 00:22:27.390 Jason Mefford: Well, and i’m gonna have to cut you there and actually give you some props of because, again, you were a little self deprecating there were you said I didn’t do anything.
142 00:22:27.960 –> 00:22:37.140 Jason Mefford: Are you kidding me Robert you did the thing that’s probably the hardest thing that most people don’t do, which is actually listened.
143 00:22:38.490 –> 00:22:40.230 Robert Berry: I had no idea when I was.
144 00:22:41.640 –> 00:22:42.480 Robert Berry: The funny part.
145 00:22:44.790 –> 00:22:50.310 Robert Berry: Even I can’t even I shouldn’t even get props for it because I had no idea what I was doing not you know.
146 00:22:52.860 –> 00:22:54.630 Jason Mefford: Well, but see again you learned right.
147 00:22:54.990 –> 00:23:02.820 Jason Mefford: yeah and again, you know from that you know you learn that work there i’m sure you’ve done that other times in your life too right.
148 00:23:03.240 –> 00:23:05.460 Robert Berry: Oh yeah oh yeah since then yeah multiple.
149 00:23:07.320 –> 00:23:17.820 Jason Mefford: Well, in to me it’s you know I I i’m a lifelong learner i’m just curious, and so I loved you know, the same thing when I would go to go travel I loved hanging.
150 00:23:18.240 –> 00:23:24.120 Jason Mefford: out down in the lobby or the bars in the hotel or out front, you know you always meet really interesting people.
151 00:23:24.630 –> 00:23:33.930 Jason Mefford: And just start striking up a conversation and i’ll tell you I learned some fascinating things again just from asking a few questions letting people talk.
152 00:23:34.380 –> 00:23:41.580 Jason Mefford: I mean, but just some really interesting people some little trivia stuff i’ve gotten the back of my head for jeopardy if I ever go on there.
153 00:23:42.180 –> 00:23:54.690 Jason Mefford: that’ll probably come out but to me it’s just fascinating I love actually learning from people and listening to them talk, but the only way I can benefit from that, as if I actually asked him some questions, too.
154 00:23:55.200 –> 00:24:03.780 Robert Berry: Absolutely well and I think is auditors to, we need to recognize that you can learn from anyone in the organization.
155 00:24:04.290 –> 00:24:12.600 Robert Berry: You don’t you don’t only learn from people in certain positions of authority you learn from any and everyone, and one thing I learned is.
156 00:24:13.050 –> 00:24:19.260 Robert Berry: The best source of information is the administrative assistant in the office I don’t care what office, it is.
157 00:24:19.620 –> 00:24:31.200 Robert Berry: That administrative assistant is a wealth of knowledge and if he or she can’t tell you directly, what you need to know they know who to call so that’s the first person you make friends with.
158 00:24:32.280 –> 00:24:42.210 Jason Mefford: Well it’s funny because, as you were talking it’s because we can learn from anybody and sometimes it’s the people that you would least expect, so the this.
159 00:24:43.830 –> 00:24:55.290 Jason Mefford: it’s on topic, but off topic right, it is you were talking there, I was just thinking about one of the experiences that I had where we going out to one of the factories that we were auditing and we were we were looking at some of the operational stuff and they just.
160 00:24:55.800 –> 00:25:05.850 Jason Mefford: I think they just spent like 25 grand building like this arrays stainless steel platform with steps up and handrails and everything.
161 00:25:06.540 –> 00:25:18.540 Jason Mefford: near this this part of the manufacturing line where we were at, and so I was just sitting there kind of watching the product go through, because i’m nerdy that way I like watching stuff get made.
162 00:25:19.170 –> 00:25:26.760 Jason Mefford: and talking to the person who was the line worker on there about oh yeah you know it looks like you got you just got this new thing it’s.
163 00:25:27.180 –> 00:25:34.620 Jason Mefford: it’s Nice, what do you think about it, and she says well you know they came and asked me about it and I told him that we really didn’t need it.
164 00:25:35.010 –> 00:25:42.450 Jason Mefford: Because, all I needed was kind of like a little box over here because I just need to step up every so often to be able to check this one thing.
165 00:25:43.080 –> 00:25:50.280 Jason Mefford: But the rest of the time it was fine I don’t know why we spent all this money actually doing this, they didn’t actually listen to me.
166 00:25:51.000 –> 00:26:07.080 Jason Mefford: And I thought wow you know how many times, does that actually happen, where you know they asked her questions, but they didn’t actually listen and we probably you know spent a bunch of money that we didn’t necessarily need to.
167 00:26:07.800 –> 00:26:23.130 Jason Mefford: because she was one that I already knew right and so like you said, people like executive assistants other people like that oh man they know they know what’s going on and they see the things that are going on and having conversations with a lot of.
168 00:26:24.270 –> 00:26:29.520 Jason Mefford: them is actually where you can learn some of the most important information yeah.
169 00:26:29.580 –> 00:26:49.170 Robert Berry: And it’s it’s unfortunate that stuff like that happens, and I can, I can say that a majority of the time in my career when there have been issues it truly has been because the people in charge didn’t listen to the people actually doing the work performing the processes.
170 00:26:50.700 –> 00:26:59.310 Robert Berry: I I can’t throughout my career, I think we have helped companies save more than $10 million I just stopped counting.
171 00:26:59.790 –> 00:27:13.320 Robert Berry: And in in almost every instance, all we did was go and talk to the person performing the function and they literally told us what the problem was, and then we translate it that in communicated it back up to somebody who was in.
172 00:27:14.790 –> 00:27:18.540 Robert Berry: They could have just walked over to that very same person and ask the question.
173 00:27:19.920 –> 00:27:27.030 Robert Berry: it’s sometimes you feel bad that that’s your job and that’s why people were paying you but you know you it’s.
174 00:27:28.290 –> 00:27:39.330 Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s funny because you’re saying that too i’m even thinking about personal relationships right, you know we can assume right, you know how to spell us in which we.
175 00:27:39.360 –> 00:27:40.470 Jason Mefford: don’t want to do right.
176 00:27:42.420 –> 00:27:52.500 Jason Mefford: Or we can just actually ask people right because, again, I mean, even in personal relationships think significant other children, you know, whatever family remembers.
177 00:27:53.130 –> 00:28:03.840 Jason Mefford: How much of the time, are we making assumptions are we thinking you know certain things are going on we’re making conclusions about it we’re maybe feeling bad or whatever.
178 00:28:04.410 –> 00:28:13.440 Jason Mefford: And if we just have the courage to ask the question we’d actually figure out what it is and half the time it didn’t even relate to us.
179 00:28:13.800 –> 00:28:22.410 Jason Mefford: Right right, so we get into all this fear and anxiety, a lot of times it doesn’t even need to be there just because we didn’t ask a question.
180 00:28:23.580 –> 00:28:38.250 Robert Berry: yeah well and nowadays fear and anxiety wow nowadays, most people a field with both, and it makes it very difficult because nowadays, even when you ask the question.
181 00:28:38.670 –> 00:28:49.080 Robert Berry: If the other person doesn’t know how to seek clarity or they don’t know how to respond, honestly, then you end up trapped in this conundrum of.
182 00:28:49.350 –> 00:28:54.090 Robert Berry: you’re trying to ask questions but you’re not getting the answers because you’re dealing with someone who has.
183 00:28:54.900 –> 00:29:06.420 Robert Berry: A very interesting personality that’s not rooted in the truth and they’re trying to figure out why you’re asking the question, even though you’re being directly honest with them, and so you get into these Games, where.
184 00:29:07.110 –> 00:29:14.670 Robert Berry: they’re not really hearing your question, even though you’re asking it and they’re answering something by anticipating what it is that they think you’re asking and.
185 00:29:17.670 –> 00:29:20.010 Robert Berry: Yes, the questioning conundrum.
186 00:29:20.520 –> 00:29:28.170 Jason Mefford: It is well i’m just like every time I do one of these podcasts I can’t believe how fast the time has actually gone so I know.
187 00:29:29.220 –> 00:29:29.550 Jason Mefford: Right.
188 00:29:30.900 –> 00:29:31.470 Jason Mefford: So.
189 00:29:32.370 –> 00:29:46.920 Jason Mefford: You know, maybe some some final thoughts are some things that we should you know, make sure to impart with people or leave with them to as as far as how they can ask some of these better question so they can improve, improve the quality of life, and I should perform better audits.
190 00:29:47.760 –> 00:29:55.170 Robert Berry: yeah So the first thing is, it will first, there are three things you must know about questions number one.
191 00:29:56.130 –> 00:30:00.270 Robert Berry: Asking questions is the hardest thing that you have to do in your entire life.
192 00:30:01.260 –> 00:30:09.840 Robert Berry: You always have to ask questions as children, you ask your parents like to go outside to go on a field trip to spend a night over someone else’s house.
193 00:30:10.230 –> 00:30:22.140 Robert Berry: as adults, you ask employers to hire you, by way of filling out a job job posting job application so you have to ask questions but it’s the most difficult thing that you’ll ever have to do.
194 00:30:22.620 –> 00:30:31.140 Robert Berry: But the second thing is you can’t avoid it it’s inescapable so you cannot you cannot avoid asking questions.
195 00:30:31.890 –> 00:30:40.350 Robert Berry: The third thing is, though, it’s also irreversible once you get it out there you can’t just take it back.
196 00:30:40.950 –> 00:30:49.230 Robert Berry: So it’s important that you learn some good techniques that can help you formulate better questions.
197 00:30:50.190 –> 00:30:57.330 Robert Berry: Because again there’s more to asking questions than just asking questions don’t think that just because you have an audit charter.
198 00:30:57.720 –> 00:31:04.980 Robert Berry: That gives you, you know, the ability to ask good questions and gives you the authority, but not the ability so.
199 00:31:05.790 –> 00:31:24.300 Robert Berry: Just remember that it’s a muscle, you have to use it, you have to exercise it and you will get better at it, you will never ever be perfect some days you’ll hit it off with one person, the next day you bomb with that very same person so keep those things in mind and just work the muscle.
200 00:31:24.840 –> 00:31:29.700 Jason Mefford: yeah well like you said, I mean we’ve got that we have to do it, we can’t avoid it.
201 00:31:30.450 –> 00:31:36.330 Jason Mefford: And you know this whole point about it being irreversible when you first said that I was kind of like Where are you going with that, but.
202 00:31:36.870 –> 00:31:48.060 Jason Mefford: Again, then all these different things flashed in front of my mind of different experiences that i’ve had before, and sometimes you know, once you say something you can’t take it back.
203 00:31:48.840 –> 00:31:54.510 Jason Mefford: And so you know, like you said, this is something that everybody can learn that’s why you wrote a book on it.
204 00:31:54.660 –> 00:31:57.270 Jason Mefford: Right exactly we do training on it.
205 00:31:57.660 –> 00:32:09.420 Jason Mefford: So that so that people can actually learn, because you know I truly believe the better that we get at asking questions and the more questions we ask in the right way.
206 00:32:09.930 –> 00:32:22.140 Jason Mefford: our quality of life, goes up the quality of life of people around us goes up, we can do our job easier, we have less of that fear and anxiety that so many people are strapped with as well.
207 00:32:22.920 –> 00:32:35.550 Jason Mefford: And you know, again we don’t we make mistakes along the way, but the more you know that you’re that you’re actually trying it that you’re practicing it you’re getting that feedback and you’re learning.
208 00:32:36.030 –> 00:32:42.390 Jason Mefford: And so next time it’s just that much easier right and the more you do it, the easier it gets.
209 00:32:43.110 –> 00:32:44.040 Absolutely.
210 00:32:45.120 –> 00:32:46.440 Jason Mefford: i’m guessing you agree with that right.
211 00:32:47.160 –> 00:32:48.480 100%.
212 00:32:49.680 –> 00:32:50.670 Robert Berry: That was a good question.
213 00:32:50.850 –> 00:32:52.590 Jason Mefford: That was a good question was that a good question.
214 00:32:54.720 –> 00:33:00.480 Jason Mefford: Like I said I mean there’s we could spend a lot of time on here, but again it’s it’s you know you’ve got the book about it.
215 00:33:02.160 –> 00:33:13.980 Jason Mefford: yeah and yeah I mean go get the book read it, and start practicing start start doing stuff because you know again you’re not going to get very far if you don’t ask the questions.
216 00:33:16.920 –> 00:33:17.160 Jason Mefford: So.
217 00:33:18.270 –> 00:33:27.030 Jason Mefford: All right, well, Robert, thank you for taking the time again, everybody will will put up in the show notes, but ask better questions get better answers perform better audits.
218 00:33:27.750 –> 00:33:36.030 Jason Mefford: Is a book that will help you get a lot more information about this and help you start flexing your question muscle, I guess, we call it or.
219 00:33:36.840 –> 00:33:38.250 Jason Mefford: Whatever you call it right.
220 00:33:41.340 –> 00:33:46.890 Jason Mefford: Alright, well, thanks in your website where people can get Ahold of you what’s easiest website for people to be able to reach you at.
221 00:33:47.670 –> 00:34:01.110 Robert Berry: www dot that audit guide.com that audit guide COM i’m always on linkedin as well, you can find me there, and thank you very much for having me on jamming with Jason.
222 00:34:01.410 –> 00:34:02.970 Jason Mefford: Oh you’re welcome Robert Thank you.
Something that affects everyone, in one way or another is money. Today we discuss why certain people are having problems breaking through certain monetary thresholds, how much money is “enough” money, and what kinds of energy surrounds money.
Since the universe loves numbers, naturally our currency can be affected by what kind of energy we are putting out from ourselves.
1 00:00:01.410 –> 00:00:05.730 Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast i’m your co host Jason medford.
2 00:00:06.089 –> 00:00:18.780 Kathy Gruver: And I am Kathy gruver and today we thought we would talk about a subject that is, I think, affects everybody’s life affects everybody throughout the course of their life, it is money.
3 00:00:19.350 –> 00:00:20.520 Jason Mefford: My man my man.
4 00:00:22.530 –> 00:00:24.120 Jason Mefford: hey we’re both on the same place.
5 00:00:24.720 –> 00:00:25.860 Kathy Gruver: With a little catchphrase just.
6 00:00:25.860 –> 00:00:30.240 Kathy Gruver: In the background it’s either that one or the pink floyd bump bump bump bump bump.
7 00:00:30.600 –> 00:00:33.090 Jason Mefford: bump bump Monday is.
8 00:00:34.170 –> 00:00:34.560 Jason Mefford: The other.
9 00:00:35.640 –> 00:00:37.050 Kathy Gruver: yeah I don’t know the words that one so.
10 00:00:38.400 –> 00:00:46.800 Kathy Gruver: Anyway, we’re not doing a mute or musical episode, though we actually should do that at some point, but we before we got on the air we’re talking about sort of the energy of money and how.
11 00:00:47.160 –> 00:00:57.630 Kathy Gruver: Our perception of money and prosperity is shaped by how we’re raised by the messages that we got as a child, the messages that we got from.
12 00:00:58.500 –> 00:01:08.070 Kathy Gruver: Whether it’s employers or society at large, about how you view people with money, how you view money what you deserve in the universe, so we thought would be interesting to talk about that today.
13 00:01:09.090 –> 00:01:11.670 Jason Mefford: yeah cuz this is, this is one of those things that.
14 00:01:13.350 –> 00:01:28.620 Jason Mefford: You know I I know you and Kathy we’ve talked about this i’ve talked about it with a lot of other people as well that most of us have some money issues Okay, because we have, there is an energy around money.
15 00:01:28.950 –> 00:01:32.100 Jason Mefford: But usually we get taught things growing up right like.
16 00:01:32.340 –> 00:01:49.350 Jason Mefford: Oh, we don’t have money for that oh look at those you know nasty rich people you know there’s like there’s like both sides of it, you know, money is the root of all evil, you know there’s all of these kind of negative things around money.
17 00:01:49.890 –> 00:02:02.220 Jason Mefford: That we’re taught and that we start to believe right which, which is why again if you don’t have a good relationship with money you probably ain’t got no money.
19 00:02:03.300 –> 00:02:04.950 Kathy Gruver: or not as much as you’d like.
20 00:02:05.190 –> 00:02:07.560 Kathy Gruver: You know, and I was a huge fan of susie arm and.
21 00:02:08.340 –> 00:02:11.820 Kathy Gruver: For a while and I used to watch her show, and one of the things she talked about was.
22 00:02:12.510 –> 00:02:23.070 Kathy Gruver: Do you respect money and she used the very physical example of you know, she said she was in a grocery store or something and the woman in front of her opened up her purse and there was just it was wadded up.
23 00:02:23.400 –> 00:02:29.940 Kathy Gruver: And it was just shoved in there, and she didn’t know how much she had, and she said just from the energetic perspective of respect.
24 00:02:30.270 –> 00:02:40.290 Kathy Gruver: I have my money nicely organized everything’s facing the right way, I treat it with respect and I thought that’s such an interesting thing I mean it sounds ridiculous who cares how you treat the physical money.
25 00:02:40.560 –> 00:02:51.780 Kathy Gruver: But if it’s something that is precious to you if it’s something that is valuable to you and i’m not saying that you know if you have a negative view about money you’re like I don’t think my precious know your your landlord does so.
26 00:02:53.190 –> 00:02:59.970 Kathy Gruver: But she had a really good point of just treating the actual physical money, with respect, I have a girlfriend who will not put her purse on the floor.
27 00:03:00.720 –> 00:03:05.490 Kathy Gruver: Like at a restaurant or something, because she believes that is disrespectful to.
28 00:03:05.790 –> 00:03:15.000 Kathy Gruver: Her prosperity and her money so she always either hangs it on the thing or she’ll put it on the Chair next to us, or you know she doesn’t want her personal the floor, and I was like that’s an interesting thing to you know, so we all have these.
29 00:03:16.530 –> 00:03:23.910 Kathy Gruver: sort of rituals around money, but those were just a couple that you know my friend susie arm and I know we have a lot of different ways we can go with us.
30 00:03:25.650 –> 00:03:29.730 Jason Mefford: yeah so which way do we want to go down right because, because I think what one thing that I learned.
31 00:03:31.290 –> 00:03:34.470 Jason Mefford: You know, to as we talk about money consciousness is.
32 00:03:35.910 –> 00:03:38.610 Jason Mefford: Money doesn’t come from hard work.
33 00:03:39.630 –> 00:03:46.950 Jason Mefford: that’s that’s what so many people say that’s another one that we tend to believe right well if you work harder work harder work harder then you’re going to have more money.
34 00:03:47.460 –> 00:03:58.110 Jason Mefford: Well, do all the people that work really hard, have a lot of money, no, in fact, a lot of the people that work the hardest get paid the least amount of money.
35 00:03:58.260 –> 00:03:58.800 Kathy Gruver: Right yeah.
36 00:03:59.190 –> 00:04:15.000 Jason Mefford: And so again, one thing that I was taught now usually have a picture, but but imagine that you’ve got two squares on a on a page of paper and in the one you ride work and then the other one you write money.
37 00:04:16.950 –> 00:04:27.960 Jason Mefford: work does not equal money, yes, money does come from work, but there is not a direct relationship between the amount of work that you do.
38 00:04:28.290 –> 00:04:29.370 Jason Mefford: And the money.
39 00:04:29.640 –> 00:04:37.830 Jason Mefford: That you make right, in fact I have worked very, very hard for some money other money.
40 00:04:39.000 –> 00:04:46.080 Jason Mefford: In a minute i’ve made as much as it took me like a week turn other money right so.
41 00:04:46.710 –> 00:04:55.080 Jason Mefford: Getting that kind of separated from a prosperity consciousness in your mind that money comes from the universe it doesn’t come from hard work.
42 00:04:55.650 –> 00:05:09.990 Jason Mefford: Yes, we have to work, we have to do things we have to provide service and value to other people, but money doesn’t come from the work is provided by the numbers.
43 00:05:10.320 –> 00:05:15.870 Kathy Gruver: that’s such a good point it’s so funny because when you said that my first I kind of rebelled against i’m like of course work leads to.
44 00:05:16.200 –> 00:05:31.620 Kathy Gruver: But you have a good point you know, the first keynote that I did that I got paid a full fee for I remember sitting at breakfast that they provided for me in the hotel that they provided for me after I got off the airplane that they provided for me, not the airplane the airlines.
45 00:05:31.860 –> 00:05:40.680 Jason Mefford: You know the day for like send a jet for me i’m not quite that kind of speaker and the woman came over she was so great to have you here, and she handed me my check, so I just wanted to give you this before.
46 00:05:40.680 –> 00:05:49.320 Kathy Gruver: You do your talk today and i’m sitting there having this great breakfast the waitress is amazing she brought me a picture of ice tea and i’m sitting there looking at this multi thousand dollar check.
47 00:05:49.860 –> 00:05:56.190 Kathy Gruver: To go do a 15 minute talk, which is my favorite thing in the world, I love it so much and I looked at that and went.
48 00:05:57.150 –> 00:06:11.670 Kathy Gruver: holy shit they’re paying me to do this, you know so you’re right it wasn’t I didn’t do 50 massages to make that amount of money they just they paid me that to do this thing that I love so so I get what you’re saying no I took me a second to to know.
49 00:06:11.700 –> 00:06:12.960 Jason Mefford: yeah yeah because.
50 00:06:13.170 –> 00:06:23.910 Jason Mefford: Because that’s why again it’s so so where i’ve one of the shifts that i’ve been making in my money consciousness, the energy around it is I serve people.
51 00:06:24.990 –> 00:06:27.030 Jason Mefford: And people pay me for me serving them.
52 00:06:27.390 –> 00:06:36.630 Jason Mefford: yeah there’s not a direct one to one relationship, you know it’s like there’s sometimes I might spend five hours, helping somebody.
53 00:06:37.230 –> 00:06:53.580 Jason Mefford: and earn a certain amount of money, or they pay me a certain amount of money right, but my serving that person he is helping energetically to where there’s other times that honestly I don’t do hardly anything you know, like I said it’s like.
54 00:06:53.850 –> 00:06:59.910 Jason Mefford: it’s like oh geez there’s money that I just found there I didn’t realize that somebody owed me for something that I.
55 00:07:00.990 –> 00:07:10.170 Jason Mefford: You know didn’t have to put in very much time for and so it’s you know, focusing on the serving and doing what we can do the money follows.
56 00:07:10.290 –> 00:07:18.540 Jason Mefford: yeah if you serve people if you create expansion in people’s lives if you help people, then you will get paid.
57 00:07:18.870 –> 00:07:25.170 Jason Mefford: yeah yeah and another another thing kind of from that right because, again, most of the time we consider.
58 00:07:26.610 –> 00:07:38.250 Jason Mefford: Money icky right and we hate to go ask for it or do things like that, but there is a balance in there must be a balance in the universe.
59 00:07:39.180 –> 00:07:51.210 Jason Mefford: Right, so if if I do something for you, then, to balance that you should do something for me right same thing if you do something for me, I do something for you.
60 00:07:51.630 –> 00:08:14.220 Jason Mefford: It doesn’t always have to be money but that just happens to be the medium of exchange in most of our countries right so so by us serving someone, you should receive some kind of offering from that person it’s again usually in our societies that comes in the form of money.
61 00:08:14.580 –> 00:08:15.060 Kathy Gruver: Right yeah.
62 00:08:15.690 –> 00:08:21.690 Jason Mefford: So you don’t have to feel icky about accepting money if you have been serving and helping people.
63 00:08:22.110 –> 00:08:23.250 Jason Mefford: to receive the money.
65 00:08:23.790 –> 00:08:25.680 Jason Mefford: right if you go stick them up and take their money.
66 00:08:26.130 –> 00:08:29.130 Jason Mefford: totally wrong right, but if you’re providing service.
67 00:08:30.660 –> 00:08:32.220 Jason Mefford: or services or things.
68 00:08:32.220 –> 00:08:42.420 Jason Mefford: like that, then you are entitled right to to receive some form of compensation either money or otherwise.
69 00:08:43.410 –> 00:08:54.330 Kathy Gruver: I agree with you, and where I see a huge sticking point on this is first of all, a lot of us were raised that money is icky or we don’t have enough were raised in that place of lack which i’ll get to in a second, but because I came from the massage background.
70 00:08:54.750 –> 00:09:02.850 Kathy Gruver: I see so many people who are healers who don’t want to charge they don’t feel they should charge they feel like this is a gift and they’re starving.
71 00:09:03.090 –> 00:09:10.590 Kathy Gruver: They like they’re living on people’s couches because they will not charge for this thing that they’re providing it’s like but you had to pay for your table.
72 00:09:10.860 –> 00:09:18.930 Kathy Gruver: You have to pay for the lotion you have to pay for the sheets, you have to pay for your education, you have to pay for your rent you have to pay, you know, unless you’re.
73 00:09:19.740 –> 00:09:31.320 Kathy Gruver: Just wealthy or you have enough to live on, you need to have that exchange also people do not appreciate sometimes things that are given for free the times that I have discounted.
74 00:09:31.770 –> 00:09:40.230 Kathy Gruver: swear to God every time I discounted massively discounted a session for a client it’s been a nightmare they’ve not shown up they’ve been jerks.
75 00:09:40.740 –> 00:09:48.660 Kathy Gruver: they’ve not even given me the 20 bucks that they were expect, I mean they were just it’s been a horrible experience when I have discounted it for people who say they can’t afford my services.
76 00:09:49.470 –> 00:10:03.600 Kathy Gruver: Having Having said that, though, the first chiropractor that I went to it was my wedding day I was about to fly home to Pittsburgh my neck one out I sat in the chair and went, oh no and I literally hours later, I was getting on a plane to go get married.
77 00:10:04.740 –> 00:10:10.440 Kathy Gruver: I found a chiropractor in the phone book, it was down the street from my office, I had to walk I didn’t have a car.
78 00:10:11.070 –> 00:10:22.050 Kathy Gruver: I feel like huddled down, you know in modern in the modern city to beverly hills at this point watered down to this guy he adjusted me and I said how much do I owe you and he said $20.
79 00:10:24.120 –> 00:10:36.120 Kathy Gruver: And I said no, that can’t be your rate and he said caddy let me ask you this, he said, what do you do for a living, I said i’m an actor, but i’m working as a receptionist he goes Okay, do you have a lot of money.
80 00:10:37.230 –> 00:10:42.990 Kathy Gruver: And I was like taken aback by his direct us with that and I went no and he goes Okay, do you have health insurance.
81 00:10:43.890 –> 00:10:52.740 Kathy Gruver: I said no, he goes Okay, you told me you’re getting on a plane like today to get married right and I went yeah and he goes okay your rate is $20.
82 00:10:53.430 –> 00:11:04.410 Kathy Gruver: And until you tell me otherwise your rate will always be $20 he said I have incredibly wealthy patients that come in three times a week, who pay me exorbitant amounts of money.
83 00:11:04.830 –> 00:11:10.770 Kathy Gruver: so that I can charge you $20 that is your right until you tell me otherwise and i’m like.
84 00:11:11.520 –> 00:11:21.060 Kathy Gruver: Oh, my God like you know it was just the sweetest thing and I ended up seeing this man for years, I sent other patients to him, so it ended up being that exchange of.
85 00:11:21.270 –> 00:11:29.070 Kathy Gruver: The oldest residents this this given take of money and then, when I had health insurance, I remember walking in one day and showing him my card and going, you can charge you 50 now you know.
86 00:11:29.190 –> 00:11:32.460 Kathy Gruver: But that was our relationship and he just he had this understanding of.
87 00:11:32.730 –> 00:11:41.880 Kathy Gruver: That giving and maybe the given to me didn’t directly come back from me, but it was I gave to you, you give to somebody else who gave to someone else who get it carried it forward.
88 00:11:42.300 –> 00:11:51.420 Kathy Gruver: And I just I will I will never forget this man, because that was just such an incredible lesson and I realized that sometimes that generosity, it comes back to you yeah.
89 00:11:52.110 –> 00:12:02.580 Jason Mefford: Well, it does and that’s that’s why you know that’s a great example of you know, again, there is this reciprocity of life there’s one of the laws folks is the law of reciprocity okay it’s.
90 00:12:03.060 –> 00:12:12.630 Jason Mefford: it’s a cosmic law you don’t have to believe it but it’s real and it happens it Everybody talks about Karma guess what that’s the law of reciprocity okay.
91 00:12:13.050 –> 00:12:17.790 Jason Mefford: So, so when when you look at it, because exactly like you’re saying with that chiropractor.
92 00:12:18.630 –> 00:12:28.380 Jason Mefford: He had wealthy clients to them, it was nothing for them to probably come in drop hundreds or thousands of dollars, you know with him on a weekly basis.
93 00:12:29.280 –> 00:12:46.050 Jason Mefford: The fact that he was able to receive that from those people allowed the near chiropractor to be able to share or give that forward pay that forward, which is also the concept of general reciprocity to other people who are in need.
94 00:12:46.170 –> 00:12:46.590 Jason Mefford: Right.
95 00:12:47.070 –> 00:12:55.080 Jason Mefford: You know, if you want to save the world, you know you got to be wealthy to do that and you’ve got to have the resources to be able to.
96 00:12:55.410 –> 00:13:02.970 Jason Mefford: Help kind of makes it all around and so that’s a perfect example of you know, pay what you can he didn’t.
97 00:13:03.450 –> 00:13:10.620 Jason Mefford: It because this was the other, the other point where I wanted to go to because you were talking about sometimes light workers healers.
98 00:13:11.220 –> 00:13:24.690 Jason Mefford: They think Oh, you know I just this is my gift, I have to give it away for free, but the problem is if again if you give something freely, but the other person does not give back.
99 00:13:25.770 –> 00:13:28.470 Jason Mefford: They cannot receive.
100 00:13:29.520 –> 00:13:39.600 Jason Mefford: From the universe, there must be some exchange right, even if they’re like hey i’m going to buy a dinner next time or whatever.
101 00:13:40.080 –> 00:13:42.060 Jason Mefford: Even if it was only $1.
102 00:13:42.690 –> 00:13:51.210 Jason Mefford: Right, but that chiropractor you had to pay him something or give him something of value.
103 00:13:51.570 –> 00:13:54.930 Jason Mefford: For the service, he was providing for you to actually get the healing.
104 00:13:55.290 –> 00:13:59.100 Jason Mefford: yeah right that’s another thing that we that we tend to forget is.
105 00:13:59.790 –> 00:14:10.080 Jason Mefford: If we don’t charge people we’re actually hurting them because they’re not participating on their side of the exchange and so they don’t get the benefit.
106 00:14:10.290 –> 00:14:17.550 Kathy Gruver: yeah they don’t see the value in it well and, especially, I can never pronounce right you Su I who rediscovered reiki.
107 00:14:17.970 –> 00:14:24.150 Kathy Gruver: He found that when he was giving the reiki away, he would go back to these people later and find them back in this state of illness.
108 00:14:24.390 –> 00:14:35.160 Kathy Gruver: And he realized that if you give this away for free the people don’t see the value in it so it’s not as effective, so you know people get on deepak chopra and they call them like deep pocket show broad he so rich and.
109 00:14:36.270 –> 00:14:43.620 Kathy Gruver: Who cares he’s he’s helping people you know he’s not running a pyramid scheme he’s not running a Ponzi scheme he’s not stealing people’s money.
110 00:14:43.950 –> 00:14:53.310 Kathy Gruver: He is a teacher and a leader for so many people I don’t happen to resonate with them, but I don’t resent the fact that he has a lot of money same thing with eckart tolle a.
111 00:14:53.670 –> 00:15:07.200 Kathy Gruver: You know he’s admitted he’s like I love really fancy watches he goes I love spending money on really fancy watches them thinking, good for you you’re talking about presence and meditation and then you’re off buying you know, the latest Rolex I think that’s awesome that’s awesome.
112 00:15:08.280 –> 00:15:18.810 Jason Mefford: Well, and that kind of gets back into one of the other things is we’re talking about the energy of money right is that prosperity consciousness, you know you cannot be.
113 00:15:19.470 –> 00:15:31.320 Jason Mefford: On the one hand, you know getting all into a car, you know buying an expensive watch instead of doing something else and feel negative about how he chooses.
114 00:15:31.800 –> 00:15:44.310 Jason Mefford: to share or or roll his money forward right and if you’re feeling negative about that, then of course you know, are you going to be in that situation to receive Probably not.
115 00:15:44.640 –> 00:15:50.640 Jason Mefford: But let’s let’s take that as an example right because sometimes people say Oh, you know the rich people are buying rich cars and.
116 00:15:51.210 –> 00:16:01.800 Jason Mefford: And you know spending all this money on houses or you know $5,000 handbags, or whatever right oh that’s that’s a waste of money that’s not how you should be spending money well let’s stop and.
117 00:16:02.430 –> 00:16:11.430 Jason Mefford: And look at this because, again it’s a balance it’s a whole it’s a money is a flow in a flow out a flow in a flow out.
118 00:16:12.480 –> 00:16:18.060 Jason Mefford: Do you think somebody built that rich person’s House you know my dad was in the construction industry.
119 00:16:18.270 –> 00:16:29.160 Jason Mefford: You know, he was a general contractor I worked for many years in the construction industry i’m grateful for all the people that want to build mansions because it helped put food on the table for me right.
120 00:16:29.940 –> 00:16:33.540 Jason Mefford: As a kid because my father was able to earn money from that now.
121 00:16:34.110 –> 00:16:44.220 Jason Mefford: You know, and again it becomes this big cycle right, even if you take something like the watch somebody had to design the watch they probably got paid to design it.
122 00:16:44.640 –> 00:16:56.730 Jason Mefford: Somebody got paid to mine, the materials refined the metals, you know, make the different thing if you look at something like you know, a $10,000 Rolex watch let’s say.
123 00:16:57.900 –> 00:17:09.270 Jason Mefford: Think about the hundreds of people behind that who were also able to earn or provide for themselves and their families, because of that right.
124 00:17:09.630 –> 00:17:23.400 Jason Mefford: So, again it’s it’s it’s a it’s a flow in it’s a flow out, and so, if we’re afraid to flow out and to pay people or give people what they’re do for the services that they’re providing for us.
125 00:17:23.940 –> 00:17:33.060 Jason Mefford: Then we’re not abundance ran and the money energy gets blocked if we’re only worried about inflow and we’re not giving anything back.
126 00:17:33.750 –> 00:17:51.360 Jason Mefford: Then it’s a problem right and we’ve talked before about this on the podcast about you know, the fact of having employees or having other people like that that yes, the revenues that we bring in are able to then also support and flow back out to other people as well.
127 00:17:51.570 –> 00:18:02.310 Kathy Gruver: Absolutely it’s interesting so and I know we’re going to talk about this on a future episode, but I do something called mental bank which I learned from Dr campus at hmm, which is the hypnotherapy school I originally went to.
128 00:18:02.640 –> 00:18:14.250 Kathy Gruver: And it’s about prosperity and abundance and shifting your perspective on money and the example that he gives in the video when he teaches it is, and this is the original Dr CAP is not the current doctor visits his dad.
129 00:18:15.150 –> 00:18:19.650 Kathy Gruver: There was a guy that came to him for hypnosis and he could never make more than $18,000 a year.
130 00:18:20.010 –> 00:18:28.260 Kathy Gruver: Like, no matter what job he did he’d hit 18 and that was a seed get fired he get laid off as as far as he could go and investigating that further Dr campus realized.
131 00:18:28.860 –> 00:18:38.220 Kathy Gruver: That the guys Father never made more than $18,000 so the kid now the adult in his mind felt like that was as much as he could do.
132 00:18:38.880 –> 00:18:50.790 Kathy Gruver: And so, this mental bank, which is a phenomenal activity, I do it every night now helps you shift your focus on money helps you shift your perspective on abundance and I was teaching this technique to a bunch of massage therapists.
133 00:18:51.930 –> 00:19:06.150 Kathy Gruver: All millennia all millennials they have a very different perspective on money they have very different perspective on capitalism, many of the millennials that I know, and I was teaching them this thing, and the one girl goes okay well, but what happens then when you reach that goal.
134 00:19:07.170 –> 00:19:11.370 Kathy Gruver: In the mental bank and I said well you double it again, and she goes.
135 00:19:13.290 –> 00:19:14.550 Kathy Gruver: How much money do you need.
136 00:19:15.780 –> 00:19:20.490 Kathy Gruver: And i’m thinking oh my God no and I said, well, let me ask you this, I said how old, are you.
137 00:19:21.180 –> 00:19:27.180 Kathy Gruver: She said i’m 23 and I went okay cool I said, are you going to have school loans, she said no it’s okay.
138 00:19:27.480 –> 00:19:34.200 Kathy Gruver: I said, would you like to buy a house someday she goes yeah probably I said, do you want to get married and have kids she goes yeah, I think, so I said.
139 00:19:34.740 –> 00:19:38.160 Kathy Gruver: What your idea of what you need right now for money.
140 00:19:38.910 –> 00:19:46.800 Kathy Gruver: is going to be really different when you’re 40 and maybe you want to go back to school, maybe you want to put your kids through school, maybe you want to start a foundation.
141 00:19:47.070 –> 00:19:58.080 Kathy Gruver: Maybe you want to donate to a homeless shelter just because you at 23 or 22 or however old she was she didn’t think you know she thought that was just exorbitant well how much money do you possibly need So if you thinking wait.
143 00:19:59.730 –> 00:20:09.420 Kathy Gruver: wait a little bit you know, making money is not bad, making money is not a bad thing, and I see, I mean that was even sort of drilled in my head, you know my dad.
144 00:20:09.660 –> 00:20:16.080 Kathy Gruver: kind of resented rich people I had relatives who were very well off, but still continue to bitch and moan about how little money they had.
145 00:20:16.470 –> 00:20:18.180 Kathy Gruver: And that drove my dad crazy because he’s like.
146 00:20:18.540 –> 00:20:29.310 Kathy Gruver: You have triple the amount I do and you’re complaining about not having enough money you buy this big House you go on these trips How dare you complain about not having enough, and so I kind of grew up in that.
147 00:20:29.610 –> 00:20:36.570 Kathy Gruver: mentality of yo he didn’t want to be the bad guy he didn’t want to ask to have to ask for money, so I grew up in this very sort of unhealthy space.
148 00:20:37.350 –> 00:20:48.780 Kathy Gruver: about what being rich meant, and I remember when I bought my first brand new car I was so excited like I always gotten used cars, I bought my first brand new car I finished my PhD That was my reward right.
149 00:20:49.110 –> 00:20:54.210 Kathy Gruver: And I called my dad on the way to the dealership and i’m like oh my God i’m going to pick up the car he goes what you get so I got a.
150 00:20:54.270 –> 00:20:56.430 Kathy Gruver: toy route for he goes what year.
151 00:20:57.540 –> 00:21:10.500 Kathy Gruver: And I said this year, and he goes you’re getting a new car and I said yeah, and this was his response, now, this was coming from his hang ups had no reflection on me he goes oh must be nice to go out and buy a new car I can’t do that.
152 00:21:11.760 –> 00:21:20.970 Kathy Gruver: And I was like Oh, I am your grown daughter, and that was, I think the one time, he was an amazing man that was the one time in my life, where he said something like that, but I could tell it like.
153 00:21:21.360 –> 00:21:24.930 Kathy Gruver: He wasn’t sure what to do with the fact that I was probably making more money than him.
154 00:21:25.560 –> 00:21:30.420 Kathy Gruver: And so, he reacted with words in a way, he actually apologize later and told me how proud, he was of me.
155 00:21:30.750 –> 00:21:44.340 Kathy Gruver: But that was his they all must be nice to go buy a new car, you know because of his the way he was raised with money, so we can break that cycle, you can break that cycle, by doing things like mental bank working with the money therapist money coach just started to shift your perspective.
156 00:21:45.330 –> 00:21:47.700 Jason Mefford: yeah well and like you know you brought up with.
157 00:21:48.870 –> 00:22:04.770 Jason Mefford: kind of with your dad there but also you know, was a doctor campus it was talking before about that the client that couldn’t earn more than 18,000 a year, there are i’ve seen it in my life i’ve seen it in other people’s lives there are unconscious.
158 00:22:05.910 –> 00:22:19.290 Jason Mefford: Money blocks that we have we don’t know necessarily what what it is what’s causing it why it is, but again, if you notice something like I can’t make more than $18,000 a year.
159 00:22:19.980 –> 00:22:30.750 Jason Mefford: And if you’re not recognizing why you know, again, this is the time to probably reach out to somebody for some help because there’s something that is holding you back.
160 00:22:31.350 –> 00:22:40.950 Jason Mefford: And the fact that you don’t know what it is means you can’t help work through it as well right and so until you can actually identify.
161 00:22:41.940 –> 00:22:52.170 Jason Mefford: You know because I and it’s funny because there is kind of some of the synergy stuff that goes along with that, I remember one of the hardest years that I had financially.
162 00:22:53.340 –> 00:23:12.810 Jason Mefford: A few years ago I realized coming to the end of that year that the year that I had that was probably the most financially struggling for me was the same age that my father was when he had his most.
163 00:23:12.840 –> 00:23:14.760 Kathy Gruver: challenging year financially.
164 00:23:15.390 –> 00:23:20.070 Jason Mefford: wow so there was some energy carry over from that.
165 00:23:21.300 –> 00:23:25.710 Jason Mefford: I didn’t realize it till the end of the year and then it’s like you know kind of thing but.
166 00:23:26.070 –> 00:23:29.520 Jason Mefford: But that’s that’s why again, you know doing things like the mental bank.
167 00:23:30.060 –> 00:23:36.030 Jason Mefford: talking to people there are some really good people out there that actually do energy work.
168 00:23:37.350 –> 00:23:51.510 Jason Mefford: Related to this and helping you get through it again, this is one of those things where hypnosis other things like that can usually dig down and kind of get into some of this stuff and just help you release what’s been holding you back.
169 00:23:51.570 –> 00:23:54.840 Jason Mefford: yeah and it’s literally almost like the floodgates just opens up.
170 00:23:55.380 –> 00:24:07.560 Kathy Gruver: It does it really does and I found this with affirmations to you know if you are constantly saying things like oh i’m broke I can’t afford that I don’t have enough Okay, first of all is that true.
171 00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:10.650 Kathy Gruver: Because i’ve had coaching clients say.
172 00:24:11.070 –> 00:24:14.460 Kathy Gruver: i’m broke and i’m like really well how are you paying me today and they laugh.
173 00:24:15.000 –> 00:24:20.460 Kathy Gruver: And i’m like you own a home, you have a rental property, do you have money in the bank yeah Okay, are you broke.
174 00:24:20.790 –> 00:24:27.540 Kathy Gruver: No, but that’s this blanket statement we say so, if you find yourself saying things like that one check and see if it’s true because it’s Probably not.
175 00:24:28.290 –> 00:24:35.610 Kathy Gruver: If it is it’s a whole nother conversation but it’s probably not and then shift that to I am prosperous and abundant money flows freely to me.
176 00:24:35.910 –> 00:24:44.610 Kathy Gruver: The universe loves numbers, so I remember when I was in Hollywood I was affirming I am a i’m a working actor and then I went, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
177 00:24:45.000 –> 00:24:53.490 Kathy Gruver: I know where i’m already working I need to be paid Okay, I am a paid working actor i’m a paid working actor that was my affirmation and I got my first paid job.
178 00:24:54.180 –> 00:25:00.840 Kathy Gruver: was like 40 bucks a day for 10 hours of work and I went like Fuck that up all right, I gotta be more specific.
179 00:25:01.230 –> 00:25:10.950 Kathy Gruver: You know, send a number say I because when I do my to my goals, every year, I said really specific numbers, this is what I want away this is how much I want to have in savings, I would have zero in debt.
180 00:25:11.280 –> 00:25:19.320 Kathy Gruver: This is how much money, I want to make these are, how many keynotes I want to do the universe loves numbers and if you don’t believe the number that you said you can cheat.
181 00:25:20.160 –> 00:25:34.470 Kathy Gruver: I love money I love making money I love making extra money so that I can enjoy myself I love making extra money, so I can help people around me I love having extra money, so I can have fun I love having a million dollars.
182 00:25:36.360 –> 00:25:46.290 Jason Mefford: Those are all great things and they’re all better things to say, to yourself and i’m broke or I can’t afford that right, I mean those are there there’s some certain terms like that I can’t afford that no.
183 00:25:46.980 –> 00:25:59.940 Jason Mefford: quit saying I can’t afford it, you can afford anything you really want right if you choose not to buy it right that’s different but don’t say I can’t afford that no I choose not to buy that now.
184 00:26:00.420 –> 00:26:09.630 Jason Mefford: or I choose not to buy that it’s not something that I want instead of saying I can’t afford it, you know as you were as you were talking about your affirmations, especially as an actor.
185 00:26:10.110 –> 00:26:18.630 Jason Mefford: I remember the story about Jim carrey I don’t know if you heard that one, where he was you know, he was here in La for a little while struggling struggling struggling.
186 00:26:19.170 –> 00:26:25.920 Jason Mefford: He drove his you know beat up car up on, I think it was probably mulholland drive or somewhere up there, and he was looking out over the city.
187 00:26:26.400 –> 00:26:39.720 Jason Mefford: And in decided that he was going to get paid $10 million for a film now you know, again as a struggling actor making 40 100 bucks a day it’s like $10 million is a big leap, but did he end up doing it yes.
188 00:26:39.720 –> 00:26:43.110 Jason Mefford: Because we’re off a check for $10 million, I believe, if I remember right.
189 00:26:43.590 –> 00:26:53.130 Jason Mefford: put it in his wallet and carried it around he got paid more than $10 million for for movies eventually folks oh you got one sitting there right there for you yeah yeah.
190 00:26:53.580 –> 00:26:55.230 Kathy Gruver: that’s been staying there since 2010.
191 00:26:56.460 –> 00:27:12.570 Jason Mefford: yep so you know again that’s one of those the universe does love numbers as well, and so you know again there’s and that’s just a couple of examples, but i’ve heard hundreds and hundreds of these kinds of examples of of what people have been able to do.
192 00:27:13.080 –> 00:27:27.090 Kathy Gruver: yeah and affirmations work I did one for a while, was I expect I accept money from unexpected sources, because I didn’t need to know where it came from I just need to know it was coming, and that I deserved it and within days I got hired to do expert witness work.
193 00:27:27.990 –> 00:27:29.160 Kathy Gruver: I didn’t even know that was a thing.
194 00:27:29.310 –> 00:27:36.330 Kathy Gruver: They were looking for a massage therapist and i’ve worked with this company about a dozen times i’ve kept I kept one guy at a jail i’ve helped people get.
195 00:27:36.630 –> 00:27:44.430 Kathy Gruver: The compensation for horrible injuries i’ve gotten horrible massage therapists out of the business I protected another massage therapists who are wrongly accused of stuff.
196 00:27:44.760 –> 00:27:56.640 Kathy Gruver: And i’ve made a really good living from not a whole living but it’s like that’s been an amazing amount of extra money after I did the affirmation, I accept money from unexpected sources literally within days of me starting that affirmation that happened.
197 00:27:57.810 –> 00:28:02.910 Kathy Gruver: I definitely wouldn’t have expected that I wouldn’t have thought to seek it out, because I didn’t know they needed a massage therapist for such a thing.
198 00:28:03.330 –> 00:28:10.650 Kathy Gruver: But this stuff works, so it just shifts your it’s all again like we talked about so much it’s all about shifting your perspective, looking at things a different way.
199 00:28:11.130 –> 00:28:11.490 Because.
200 00:28:13.080 –> 00:28:21.090 Jason Mefford: It is so there is energy with money so again, you know we talked about lots of little things, but even you know again like.
201 00:28:21.480 –> 00:28:30.540 Jason Mefford: The Suze orman thing at the beginning of physically, you know, taking care of your money doing what it is i’m one of those people i’m very anal about my money, I have my.
202 00:28:31.650 –> 00:28:41.250 Jason Mefford: Certain thing in my wallet everything is folded it’s the right way it soon certain order, everything is taken care of because I do have physical, respect for the money as well right.
203 00:28:41.670 –> 00:28:46.920 Jason Mefford: that’s one thing you can do and we talked about lots of other things you know get rid of saying.
204 00:28:47.370 –> 00:28:57.810 Jason Mefford: You know, stop saying, some of those things that we know are not true that are holding ourselves back replace those with different things like I receive money from unexpected sources.
205 00:28:58.260 –> 00:29:04.620 Jason Mefford: You know I did that one for a little while to and I had some stuff show up that I had no idea would have ever been there right.
206 00:29:05.910 –> 00:29:20.550 Jason Mefford: So you know those things do work and, again, you know it’s it’s all about energy, try to separate and realize if you serve people if you’re doing you know, good for humanity, the money will follow.
207 00:29:21.060 –> 00:29:26.940 Jason Mefford: Right I serve people and money piles up for me that’s one of them that I do right I focus on the serving.
208 00:29:27.360 –> 00:29:32.130 Jason Mefford: And let the universe worry about filling my bank account, and it does.
209 00:29:32.400 –> 00:29:41.130 Jason Mefford: Right so that’s another thing kind of for from that and and again to you know, one of the things we talked about there’s a bunch of great practitioners that are out there as well.
210 00:29:41.670 –> 00:29:54.600 Jason Mefford: If you’re seeing that there are certain blocks that you’re having you’re not sure why you can’t get past something reach out to people they’re great I mean you and I have done it and it works so.
211 00:29:55.710 –> 00:30:07.110 Jason Mefford: there’s there’s people out there as well, to be able to help because at the end of the day, money is just a medium of exchange, but it allows you to do so much and to serve so many people.
212 00:30:07.380 –> 00:30:08.580 Jason Mefford: it’s not icky.
213 00:30:09.120 –> 00:30:21.870 Jason Mefford: It it flows in it flows out and the better, that you can do it actually how you’re using your money to help serve other people and help care for other people, money is beautiful.
214 00:30:22.890 –> 00:30:35.820 Jason Mefford: In fact, you know, the biggest way to help change and make an impact on this world is actually to be wealthy, because you can do a lot more good with money, then you can without money yeah.
215 00:30:37.530 –> 00:30:38.400 Kathy Gruver: that’s the way it is.
216 00:30:39.840 –> 00:30:43.890 Kathy Gruver: it’s like it just that’s how it’s all set up, so we might as well embrace that.
217 00:30:44.910 –> 00:30:58.560 Kathy Gruver: And do what we can in that system to make the biggest change in the world yeah I love that cool and this is a FAB I love this episode we haven’t talked about, we talked about money, all these episodes hundreds of thousands of episodes.
218 00:30:59.040 –> 00:31:00.420 Jason Mefford: Hundreds and thousands of.
219 00:31:00.510 –> 00:31:01.950 Kathy Gruver: I don’t I don’t do math.
220 00:31:02.130 –> 00:31:02.700 Which is why.
221 00:31:04.080 –> 00:31:07.470 Kathy Gruver: Anyway, I am Kathy coover I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.
222 00:31:07.770 –> 00:31:18.090 Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason method, I can be reached at Jason method calm, so this week, think about money, think about changing and having a more positive energy towards it, and just watch it start.
223 00:31:18.510 –> 00:31:27.960 Jason Mefford: coming in filling up in the all the good that you can do for the rest of the world by having that and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the foreigner podcast so yeah.
As a leader, you may have some blind spots you aren’t even aware of … that’s why they are called blind spots.
A big one that holds most leaders back and really limits your effectiveness as a leader are echo chambers. Are you living in any echo chambers?
If you are like most people the answer is probably YES.
Operating in echo chambers limits your visibility into what is really going on, since you are unconsciously only viewing everything from a limited perspective, which often leads to poor decisions since you don’t have all of the facts.
And I’m guessing you’d rather make good decisions instead of poor decisions, right?
In this week’s Jamming with Jason podcast I’m talking about echo chambers and how you can get out of the ones you may find yourself in so you can make better, quicker decisions as a leader.
You’re in an echo chamber and probably don’t even realize it. In this #JammingwithJason #podcast episode we look into how your echo chambers are probably holding you back in realizing your potential, and how you can break free.
I’m also sharing some thoughts on the recently released 2021 North American Pulse of #InternalAudit report. Take a listen and then read the report for yourself. Choose what to believe and what not to believe. Most importantly, make your own decisions and stop letting other people tell you what to believe and what to do.
1 00:00:01.530 –> 00:00:12.570 Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of jamming with Jason hey today, we are going to be talking about getting out of the ECHO chamber.
2 00:00:13.110 –> 00:00:24.210 Jason Mefford: Because, whether you realize it or not, you’re probably living in an ECHO Chamber, and that can actually have some serious impacts on you.
3 00:00:24.540 –> 00:00:41.820 Jason Mefford: and your career so today we’re going to jump in and talk about that and i’m also going to share some of my thoughts on the recent 2021 pulse of internal audit survey that just came out so with that let’s cue the episode.
4 00:00:44.400 –> 00:00:52.560 Jason Mefford: All right, everybody, welcome to today’s episode hey yet today, before I get started, I want to do a shout out to Danny.
5 00:00:53.190 –> 00:01:03.000 Jason Mefford: who sent in some information she’s been listening to the podcast for quite a while, and I just wanted to share it with you because you know you might feel like she does.
6 00:01:03.570 –> 00:01:12.480 Jason Mefford: She says, you know we’re led by the chief compliance officer and director of internal audit neither of whom have an audit background or certification.
7 00:01:13.020 –> 00:01:19.320 Jason Mefford: Your podcast has allowed me to fill the knowledge gaps from working in such an environment.
8 00:01:19.890 –> 00:01:29.790 Jason Mefford: I wanted to reach out and share my appreciation for the knowledge you’re sharing to help our profession well Danny I want to thank you for actually reaching out.
9 00:01:30.300 –> 00:01:39.150 Jason Mefford: Because it means a lot when people actually reach out, let me know you’re listening and let me know what you’re liking about the podcast so.
10 00:01:40.230 –> 00:01:52.950 Jason Mefford: If you are listening regularly a couple things that you can do for me first off make sure you subscribe to the podcast and your favorite podcast APP or that you’re watching it on the website wherever you.
11 00:01:53.460 –> 00:02:04.890 Jason Mefford: Wherever you choose to go listen like it connect with me on linkedin as well and, just like Danny did, let me know that you’re actually listening to the episodes.
12 00:02:05.340 –> 00:02:24.750 Jason Mefford: When you send me the connection request, and let me know what you’re enjoying the most so I can keep doing more of that and keep serving you my listeners so with that okay now let’s get into talking about getting out of the ECHO chamber.
13 00:02:25.920 –> 00:02:39.270 Jason Mefford: Now you might be sitting there thinking Jason I have no idea what you’re talking about I have never heard that term before, so what an ECHO Chamber is is effectively when you are kind of in a bubble.
14 00:02:40.590 –> 00:02:47.790 Jason Mefford: Where all you can hear and see are the things that are going on right around you.
15 00:02:48.420 –> 00:02:59.910 Jason Mefford: Now why that can be so difficult or so challenging for you and actually end up hurting you a lot of times is you are only familiar.
16 00:03:00.240 –> 00:03:12.390 Jason Mefford: With those things right in front of you just those people that you may be interacting with just the certain media that you may be following as well.
17 00:03:12.900 –> 00:03:24.960 Jason Mefford: And again, you know not to get into things like fake news or other stuff like that, but we’ve seen a lot, where you know when people just focus on getting information from one source.
18 00:03:25.350 –> 00:03:43.170 Jason Mefford: Sometimes that source is not correct, or they have spun things to make you believe what they want you to believe, and again, you can see how dangerous that can actually be.
19 00:03:43.950 –> 00:03:50.730 Jason Mefford: So that is an ECHO Chamber now some people also use the term of group think.
20 00:03:51.240 –> 00:04:01.260 Jason Mefford: You know, again when you’re trying to do things like brainstorming trying to work through decisions, sometimes groups will enter into what is called group thing which is.
21 00:04:01.590 –> 00:04:08.670 Jason Mefford: Again, everybody in the group just kind of thinks the same way and so because of that they have difficulty.
22 00:04:09.300 –> 00:04:21.090 Jason Mefford: You know, and actually being innovative or coming up with solutions because everyone in the group thinks the same way Okay, and so that’s how these are actually tied together.
23 00:04:21.660 –> 00:04:28.050 Jason Mefford: And so, as I, as I mentioned to begin with, you probably don’t even realize it, but I will bet.
24 00:04:28.590 –> 00:04:37.500 Jason Mefford: That you are like most people and you’re probably living in an ECHO chamber and you’re listening to a lot of group think.
25 00:04:38.070 –> 00:04:51.450 Jason Mefford: Now that’s fine right if if if everybody and every everything that you’re hearing there happens to be true, but like I said more times than not not everything is true.
26 00:04:52.050 –> 00:05:02.100 Jason Mefford: And so, again I want you to think about that you know just for a minute right because, again, maybe there’s certain celebrities or other influencers that you like, to listen to.
27 00:05:03.330 –> 00:05:14.070 Jason Mefford: Are they right all the time, probably not do they always is everything they say something you agree with.
28 00:05:14.670 –> 00:05:25.710 Jason Mefford: Probably not right and again, even though you might agree 90 or 95% of the time with somebody they can’t be right 100% of the time.
29 00:05:26.400 –> 00:05:33.600 Jason Mefford: Now i’m not going to be the the pot calling the kettle black either because I will tell you, I am not right all the time.
30 00:05:33.960 –> 00:05:48.450 Jason Mefford: There are going to be some things that I say that you think Jason you are crazy that is not true Okay, and if that’s the case I respect that right, I don’t expect anyone to just believe what I say.
31 00:05:49.020 –> 00:05:57.570 Jason Mefford: I say things sometimes to get you to think because I want to knock you out of that group thing or that ECHO Chamber that you happen to be in.
32 00:05:58.050 –> 00:06:13.290 Jason Mefford: I want to shake you up sometimes and get you to think well now hold it is that right, I want you to go out, I want you to do your own research make up your own decision and have your own opinion about things OK.
33 00:06:13.950 –> 00:06:20.760 Jason Mefford: Now i’m later on in the episode i’m going to get a little bit more into, as I said, the pulse of internal audit.
34 00:06:21.330 –> 00:06:31.140 Jason Mefford: Report that just came out, I have my own opinions about that and i’m going to share them with you some of those opinions you might agree with others, you may not.
35 00:06:31.530 –> 00:06:44.010 Jason Mefford: And so again i’m not trying to tell you to do anything if you like, what i’m saying great, but you should figure it out for yourself as well okay now.
36 00:06:45.030 –> 00:06:55.740 Jason Mefford: Just to get in and talk a little bit more about group think and being in an ECHO chamber, let me share with you a little bit about my personal story.
37 00:06:56.340 –> 00:07:15.600 Jason Mefford: And an ECHO Chamber that I was in for a long, long time Okay, so I grew up, I was born in Boise Idaho which is you know it’s a smaller area there’s maybe 500,000 people there now there was maybe 200,000 when I was growing up.
38 00:07:16.800 –> 00:07:30.510 Jason Mefford: And in that it’s it’s a rather rural area in the United States, it is also very homogenous, meaning that there there wasn’t a lot of diversity there.
39 00:07:31.230 –> 00:07:43.110 Jason Mefford: You know, again, most of the people were white middle class, in fact I think in my in my high school graduating class bit about 400 500 people in my graduating class.
40 00:07:43.440 –> 00:07:58.500 Jason Mefford: I think we only had four or five black students in my graduating class so growing up, I was not exposed to a lot of things like you know racial diversity.
41 00:07:58.950 –> 00:08:11.880 Jason Mefford: I wasn’t aware of that I did not know that because growing up in Boise meant that I was living in an ECHO Chamber when it comes to things like racial diversity.
42 00:08:12.780 –> 00:08:26.400 Jason Mefford: Now I also was raised mormon so I was born into the church my parents were Mormons and so every Sunday, we would go to church, you know every Wednesday, I would go to youth activities.
43 00:08:26.850 –> 00:08:41.190 Jason Mefford: And really everything in our family life revolved around the family and around the church so for years and years and years, all I got taught.
44 00:08:41.520 –> 00:08:51.540 Jason Mefford: Was things that my parents believed things that the church believed OK so again, you can start to see how, as a young person.
45 00:08:51.870 –> 00:09:06.690 Jason Mefford: I was living in an ECHO Chamber because I was only hearing things from my parents, I was only hearing things from my church leaders okay So what do you think I believed.
46 00:09:07.170 –> 00:09:25.200 Jason Mefford: I believed what I got told right why because that was the only thing I knew and I didn’t actually question anything OK so again I grew up that way very sheltered in a lot of in a lot of ways now.
47 00:09:26.010 –> 00:09:36.930 Jason Mefford: As I went off to college I started to broaden and see things differently, but again for part of my adult life, I continue to be mormon.
48 00:09:37.380 –> 00:09:45.210 Jason Mefford: And carried forward a lot of those things right until I started questioning I started seeing the world differently.
49 00:09:45.630 –> 00:09:57.210 Jason Mefford: I started having different experiences that opened my eyes to realize that what I had been taught and that ECHO Chamber that I was in.
50 00:09:57.840 –> 00:10:03.420 Jason Mefford: I didn’t agree with, in fact, there were several different kind of inflection points.
51 00:10:04.080 –> 00:10:15.420 Jason Mefford: In my adult life, where you know, one after another of these basic beliefs, that I had been taught got chipped away.
52 00:10:16.020 –> 00:10:22.170 Jason Mefford: I realized I woke up and realized I don’t believe what i’m being taught.
53 00:10:22.620 –> 00:10:34.110 Jason Mefford: And why don’t I believe it because i’ve done research i’ve traveled the world i’ve talked to lots of other people and I realize that 99% of the world.
54 00:10:34.500 –> 00:10:46.230 Jason Mefford: did not believe what I was taught Okay, now it doesn’t mean everything I was taught is wrong, but there were certain things that we’re not.
55 00:10:47.160 –> 00:10:58.320 Jason Mefford: we’re not true, and things that I even deep down, did not believe, but I went along with for a while, because that’s what I was taught.
56 00:10:59.220 –> 00:11:07.260 Jason Mefford: So i’m going to pause now in that there’s there’s an example of a personal ECHO Chamber that I was living in for a long time.
57 00:11:07.830 –> 00:11:18.780 Jason Mefford: So the first thing with anything is once you recognize it so again once I recognized, I was living in an ECHO Chamber I chose to get out of it.
58 00:11:19.230 –> 00:11:32.970 Jason Mefford: I chose to leave the Church, I chose to move away from Boise so that I could start experiencing the world that was outside of the little bubble that I happen to live in.
59 00:11:33.600 –> 00:11:44.100 Jason Mefford: I started traveling the world and i’ve literally been on six of the seven continents right or I guess No five because if you can’t add Arctic okay five of the seven.
60 00:11:44.760 –> 00:11:49.980 Jason Mefford: continents and have matt and have friends literally all over the world.
61 00:11:50.610 –> 00:12:04.740 Jason Mefford: And so, as a result of that, even today, I don’t live in that same ECHO Chamber because I have learned and taught myself to see what is actually going on in the world.
62 00:12:05.070 –> 00:12:15.660 Jason Mefford: Instead of just being told by people and believing what other people tell me so one of the points for our discussion today.
63 00:12:16.170 –> 00:12:23.610 Jason Mefford: I don’t want you to believe people just because they happen to be someone in a position of authority.
64 00:12:24.270 –> 00:12:33.720 Jason Mefford: Research it figure it out yourself if you don’t agree with it then don’t go along with the bullshit that they might be sharing okay.
65 00:12:34.230 –> 00:12:44.490 Jason Mefford: So that’s, the first thing, and if you’re if you’re recognizing again that you find yourself in that ECHO Chamber it’s time to break out.
66 00:12:44.850 –> 00:12:59.670 Jason Mefford: Of the bubble Okay, so if you’re recognizing it it’s time to start breaking out now I shared the example of religion in an ECHO Chamber that I was in in my life.
67 00:13:00.180 –> 00:13:16.140 Jason Mefford: Now many people also are in ECHO chambers professionally and just as much as a religion, some people view certain organizations like the Institute of internal auditors.
68 00:13:16.500 –> 00:13:31.290 Jason Mefford: As a religion or as a church and they choose to believe and follow all of the dogma and everything that comes out of certain organizations, again, it can be that organization, it could be.
69 00:13:31.710 –> 00:13:44.640 Jason Mefford: Other organizations as well i’m using this as an example Okay, but what happens is a lot of times you know, again, and if I go back to my experience growing up in the mormon church.
70 00:13:45.420 –> 00:13:53.640 Jason Mefford: A lot of people, for example, you know, one of those inflection points was a vote on marriage.
71 00:13:54.390 –> 00:14:00.270 Jason Mefford: That was going on and a lot of people in the church said well how does the church want me to vote.
72 00:14:00.870 –> 00:14:12.090 Jason Mefford: Seriously, how does the church wants you to vote that’s not how you should vote, you should vote based on your conscious miss okay.
73 00:14:12.450 –> 00:14:28.410 Jason Mefford: And so, because of that again if you are attaching yourself and living in certain ECHO chambers, you are effectively choosing what that other group or that other person is expecting you to do.
74 00:14:28.800 –> 00:14:36.960 Jason Mefford: Instead of thinking for yourself Okay, so if you find yourself in that trap stop it stop it stop it.
75 00:14:37.410 –> 00:14:50.280 Jason Mefford: start thinking for yourself and make your own decisions and your own choices, because life is choice, you have the opportunity to choose.
76 00:14:50.580 –> 00:15:09.150 Jason Mefford: To believe not believe do or not do whatever you want to do when you take that power and you actually consciously choose to do it so don’t give your power away to other people or to other organizations okay so.
77 00:15:10.200 –> 00:15:20.220 Jason Mefford: With that, I hope you got that if you didn’t go back and listen and i’m probably going to repeat myself again anyway, but with that I want to kind of switch gears a little bit.
78 00:15:20.790 –> 00:15:31.350 Jason Mefford: and talk about the pulse of the internal audit report that just came out this last week now Why am I talking about this in this episode with ECHO chamber.
79 00:15:31.770 –> 00:15:38.610 Jason Mefford: The reason is a lot of people are going to read this report that was developed in an ECHO chamber.
80 00:15:39.060 –> 00:15:52.080 Jason Mefford: That came out for certain particular reasons and they’re going to believe this they’re going to read this and believe it like the Bible or the Torah or the quran or whatever other holy text.
81 00:15:52.560 –> 00:16:01.530 Jason Mefford: That people may believe in and what I want you to do is when you read it, when you listen to my opinions about it, I want you to think hmm.
82 00:16:02.310 –> 00:16:19.590 Jason Mefford: Is that does that make sense, what Jason saying does that make sense when I read that if it does, again I want you to consciously choose to believe it based on your research and what your opinions actually are okay.
83 00:16:20.700 –> 00:16:27.480 Jason Mefford: before we jump into this, though, you might have heard me say this before you might not have, but let me tell you a couple things about surveys.
84 00:16:28.110 –> 00:16:33.210 Jason Mefford: And about benchmarking that typically end up hurting people.
85 00:16:34.080 –> 00:16:46.290 Jason Mefford: Any survey that is done is skewed based on the recipient or based on the people who respond to the survey okay so i’m going to give you an example from politics.
86 00:16:46.710 –> 00:16:58.350 Jason Mefford: Because I used to be involved in politics back in my earlier days now, if you are running a political campaign and you want to, for example, use.
87 00:16:58.800 –> 00:17:06.540 Jason Mefford: Certain statistics from a survey in your advertising or your campaigning.
88 00:17:07.080 –> 00:17:18.360 Jason Mefford: You are going to skew the survey results so, for example, and again this is just generic example nothing, one way or the other about this because i’m not political.
89 00:17:18.930 –> 00:17:29.910 Jason Mefford: But if if if, for example in the United States Okay, if I am running a democratic campaign, I am going to want to survey people.
90 00:17:30.480 –> 00:17:40.680 Jason Mefford: In the most liberal democratic heavy areas of the country to be able to get the responses, I want to put into my ad.
91 00:17:41.190 –> 00:17:46.680 Jason Mefford: You see what i’m saying you see where i’m going here okay same thing if I happen to be a republican.
92 00:17:47.190 –> 00:17:57.150 Jason Mefford: i’m going to do the same thing i’m going to go to the more conservative more strongly republican areas and i’m going to survey those people.
93 00:17:57.660 –> 00:18:10.620 Jason Mefford: Why, because I want to say things like 80% of people believe that my candidate is the right choice for the State of Texas for the United States, whatever it is right.
94 00:18:11.100 –> 00:18:21.240 Jason Mefford: So i’m going to go find people that are going to give me the results I want now, you might not have realized that’s actually what people do.
95 00:18:21.780 –> 00:18:32.940 Jason Mefford: And in fact it’s done in politics, all the time it’s done in business, all the time as well, to be able to get most of those fancy statistics that you’re actually seeing.
96 00:18:33.720 –> 00:18:44.070 Jason Mefford: So again, another cautionary tale, if you see certain statistics cry bullshit To begin with, and then calling figure out if it actually makes sense, OK.
97 00:18:44.520 –> 00:18:52.050 Jason Mefford: So, again that’s how a lot of times the respondents and people actually use those surveys So be careful.
98 00:18:52.380 –> 00:19:07.140 Jason Mefford: anytime you are looking at surveys to make sure where who are those people that they were actually surveying and does that actually is that actually a good representation for this statistic that they’re trying to spew to me.
99 00:19:08.400 –> 00:19:17.610 Jason Mefford: Most of them are done for marketing again when you see certain things, especially that come out from professional service firms or other people that are using it for marketing purposes.
100 00:19:18.150 –> 00:19:31.860 Jason Mefford: there’s probably some spin behind it and so again just be very cautious don’t believe it is scientific proof they’re just trying to use a lot of times those percentages and other things to move you a certain way.
101 00:19:32.610 –> 00:19:39.450 Jason Mefford: Now some other things in general about surveys about benchmarking about maturity levels and maturity models.
102 00:19:40.020 –> 00:19:49.590 Jason Mefford: maturity models, most of the time again, are used as a way to sell people services or to get them to do things in a certain way.
103 00:19:49.950 –> 00:19:57.900 Jason Mefford: So again, be careful of maturity models, the other trap that a lot of people fall into with maturity models is.
104 00:19:58.410 –> 00:20:04.830 Jason Mefford: They believe they have to be at the top, all the time, so it’s like we’re back in school and Oh, I have to have an A.
105 00:20:05.190 –> 00:20:20.310 Jason Mefford: When most organizations are fine having a see okay so be be aware of that again if your maturity is not where everybody else says advanced maturity is it doesn’t mean that’s where you need to be okay, I mean take me as an example.
106 00:20:22.890 –> 00:20:35.100 Jason Mefford: i’m middle aged man, but i’m not that mature in a lot of ways, because I choose not to be mature in some ways okay and that’s all right it’s perfectly fine to be that way.
107 00:20:35.850 –> 00:20:44.190 Jason Mefford: Now the other thing a lot of times again traps, who will fall in with surveys benchmarking as well is they start comparing themselves to others.
108 00:20:44.670 –> 00:20:53.820 Jason Mefford: Okay, that is, that is very dangerous when you start to do that because, again, you are not the same as other people who are being surveyed.
109 00:20:54.210 –> 00:21:12.990 Jason Mefford: and often believing you have to do something different, just because everybody else is doing it may not be the right choice for you Okay, but again, a lot of people get into compare it I compare it itis compare and I just it’s the word that I just made up by the way.
110 00:21:14.010 –> 00:21:21.870 Jason Mefford: into comparing themselves with other people and then usually what happens more times than not they end up feeling bad about themselves.
111 00:21:22.230 –> 00:21:32.670 Jason Mefford: Because they’re comparing them to someone else who is in completely different situation than they are so as an example professionally and we’ll get into this a little bit in the report.
112 00:21:33.180 –> 00:21:42.480 Jason Mefford: don’t try to compare yourself to a an internal audit function in financial services that has 200 people in their department.
113 00:21:43.200 –> 00:21:52.170 Jason Mefford: Because what they’re doing has absolutely no relevance on what you’re probably doing with a group of maybe five or 10 people okay so don’t.
114 00:21:52.470 –> 00:22:03.480 Jason Mefford: Try to compare yourself to other people it’s kind of silly to do that in fact it’d be like me, you know, comparing myself to somebody.
115 00:22:04.410 –> 00:22:12.600 Jason Mefford: You know, like a Steve Jobs or you know Warren Buffett somebody who has billions of dollars and think oh my gosh I don’t have a gulfstream.
116 00:22:12.990 –> 00:22:23.370 Jason Mefford: jet i’m just a big loser right because I don’t have that well that’s not even fair to compare because it’s two completely different things okay.
117 00:22:23.790 –> 00:22:31.140 Jason Mefford: So, again, I wanted to preface that a little bit here at the beginning, before I start going through this because, as you’re listening to what i’m saying.
118 00:22:31.500 –> 00:22:43.950 Jason Mefford: Or if you go and download the report and read through it, I want you to make sure and temper what you what kind of things you would do or how you would feel from reading this as well okay.
119 00:22:45.090 –> 00:22:56.880 Jason Mefford: So with that now i’m going to jump in and again, these are my opinions in general it’s about a 45 page document and I honestly felt sorry for the trees that I hurt.
120 00:22:57.330 –> 00:23:08.190 Jason Mefford: By printing this out because this 45 page document could have probably been delivered in about three or four pages, but hey that’s what it is.
121 00:23:08.700 –> 00:23:16.290 Jason Mefford: Now to start off with I think one of the you know, in the executive summary one of the things that came up is.
122 00:23:16.950 –> 00:23:29.160 Jason Mefford: summarized as a clear message from this year’s pulse data can be summed up in the maxim we are in the same storm, but not the same boat.
123 00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:41.730 Jason Mefford: wow no shit Sherlock okay if that’s the whole message behind this report yet don’t even need to read it.
124 00:23:42.180 –> 00:23:55.080 Jason Mefford: We already know that and, in fact, most of the information that is in this report are things you know already rehashed over and over again.
125 00:23:55.530 –> 00:24:06.090 Jason Mefford: The same numbers are rehashed over and over again okay now just to set the stage again before we get going.
126 00:24:06.570 –> 00:24:17.460 Jason Mefford: Remember, I told you, be careful about who is actually responding to know whether or not this is actually real and whether or not it actually applies to you.
127 00:24:18.060 –> 00:24:31.320 Jason Mefford: So about 50% or a little over 50% of the respondents for this survey came from only three industries, so if you are in financial services.
128 00:24:31.980 –> 00:24:44.520 Jason Mefford: which was 31% of the respondents Okay, a third of the respondents were financial services, which means, this is a report very much skewed.
129 00:24:44.850 –> 00:24:58.890 Jason Mefford: To financial service companies, so if you’re not a financial service company realize these results, probably are not reflective of what you are doing, and they shouldn’t be reflective of what you are doing.
130 00:24:59.460 –> 00:25:11.880 Jason Mefford: The next to highest at 14% manufacturing, the third public administration, so again, those are governments so again the top three over 50% of the groups.
131 00:25:12.540 –> 00:25:20.910 Jason Mefford: who responded to this are probably in completely different industries and have nothing to do with the kind of business that you are in.
132 00:25:21.240 –> 00:25:32.760 Jason Mefford: So, because of that temper what you are reading in this because it probably is not reflective of you or your particular industry okay.
133 00:25:33.480 –> 00:25:41.370 Jason Mefford: So let’s get in here and i’m going to be i’m going to be turning pages here so i’m going to be making a little bit of noise, with the with the microphone as well.
134 00:25:42.150 –> 00:25:51.000 Jason Mefford: But again, you know the beginning of this talks about Kobe hey guess what folks we knew that covered was impacting us we knew it was going to how is it.
135 00:25:51.360 –> 00:26:02.700 Jason Mefford: Well, unfortunately, in this report, it doesn’t really talk about anything except budgets and staffing and how organizations were impacted based on covert on those things.
136 00:26:03.030 –> 00:26:09.870 Jason Mefford: And in fact there’s actually some interesting things that i’ll share with you about that, because things didn’t go the way people thought when it relates to that.
137 00:26:10.350 –> 00:26:23.190 Jason Mefford: But again, we already knew that right that’s kind of old news as well now one of the things again here from a budget perspective that ended up being kind of interesting is.
138 00:26:24.360 –> 00:26:35.520 Jason Mefford: There is a play place in here, where people were looking at what really expectations that people had in June of 2020 versus the actual November 2020.
139 00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:47.070 Jason Mefford: So, again June remember this was when coveted very first kind of come in, everybody was anticipating a certain thing well what actually happened by November.
140 00:26:48.270 –> 00:26:53.370 Jason Mefford: And in fact right when you look at things like overall internal lot of budget.
141 00:26:54.540 –> 00:27:10.230 Jason Mefford: 45% of the people thought that their budgets were going to decrease, however, only 36% of people actually had their budget decreased Okay, so we were over We were worried more that they were going to get decreased in fact.
142 00:27:11.610 –> 00:27:15.270 Jason Mefford: 20% of budgets, during that time got increased.
143 00:27:16.710 –> 00:27:21.540 Jason Mefford: Okay So what does that tell you, we were worried that the sky is falling we’re not spending any money.
144 00:27:21.930 –> 00:27:33.150 Jason Mefford: When, at the end of the year 20% of people’s budgets actually increased so if your budget increase spend it go, you know go do what you need to do with it right.
145 00:27:33.690 –> 00:27:39.360 Jason Mefford: But the whole chicken little the sky is falling, at the beginning of this is not what happened.
146 00:27:39.870 –> 00:27:47.460 Jason Mefford: In fact, the same thing happened with concerns about internal audit staffing, so how many people I actually have right.
147 00:27:48.000 –> 00:28:01.650 Jason Mefford: In fact, a lot of people thought that it was going to decrease 27% thought that they were going to have to cut what happened instead 25% of people actually increased their staffing.
148 00:28:02.880 –> 00:28:13.110 Jason Mefford: OK so again people aren’t losing their jobs over this 25% of the groups are actually increasing their their people now.
149 00:28:14.040 –> 00:28:32.280 Jason Mefford: Let me just kind of move on, because, again, most of a lot of this is just kind of rehashing rehashing rehashing of those same numbers and those same things over and over again, but what I want to get to is about what they call section for risks and audit plan trends.
150 00:28:33.570 –> 00:28:35.910 Jason Mefford: Now again there’s some really fancy graphs here.
151 00:28:37.170 –> 00:28:55.710 Jason Mefford: But what i’m going to tell you is as a result of one of the most unprecedented times in world history that we have had this last year with this global pandemic all of the switching all of the risks things that are going on.
152 00:28:56.970 –> 00:29:06.450 Jason Mefford: What I will tell you from again, this report is, it appears that everybody’s doing pretty much the same thing they were doing before.
153 00:29:07.680 –> 00:29:24.930 Jason Mefford: That, my friends, is a problem if you don’t think that the risks for your organization have not changed significantly under this environment that we are in, you are sadly mistaken, in my opinion.
154 00:29:25.590 –> 00:29:31.830 Jason Mefford: But again, the risks that people are are showing as their quote unquote high risks that they’re focusing on.
155 00:29:32.400 –> 00:29:46.620 Jason Mefford: Their areas where they are focusing their audit plan on have not changed significantly, in fact, the one that did change his financial reporting.
156 00:29:47.400 –> 00:30:02.970 Jason Mefford: Efforts went up have is the one that went up, which means again at a time when we should be helping our organizations manage their risk better.
157 00:30:03.330 –> 00:30:21.780 Jason Mefford: Instead, the profession has moved to more compliance and financial compliance areas and, in my opinion, that is hurting you if you are one of those people that has done that you just.
158 00:30:22.410 –> 00:30:37.560 Jason Mefford: lowered the relevancy of internal audit in your organization Okay, and again that was probably one of my biggest takeaways from this, and unfortunately it just kind of reiterated to me.
159 00:30:38.400 –> 00:30:51.210 Jason Mefford: The fact that most people are not actually practicing risk based internal auditing, they are not actually adding a lot of value to the organization.
160 00:30:51.600 –> 00:31:01.620 Jason Mefford: They continue to stay stuck in compliance activities being told what to do, instead of actually leading.
161 00:31:02.280 –> 00:31:22.260 Jason Mefford: Developing relationships that are deeper and stronger and actually doing more work that is relevant and value added to the organization now again, as I told you ECHO Chamber that report was filled out by about 600 people.
162 00:31:23.610 –> 00:31:36.000 Jason Mefford: And those 600 people are very staunch I a members and proponents OK so again that reflects the general.
163 00:31:37.050 –> 00:31:49.560 Jason Mefford: love the I a group Okay, and I don’t know how how better to say that, but it’s the people who effectively are probably believing or thinking, as I told you before.
164 00:31:49.950 –> 00:32:00.180 Jason Mefford: they’re in an ECHO Chamber just like I was with religion only their religion, when it comes to the profession is everything that the IIA says now.
165 00:32:01.740 –> 00:32:04.890 Jason Mefford: I told you before that a lot of times people use this for marketing.
166 00:32:07.140 –> 00:32:08.220 Jason Mefford: Remember.
167 00:32:09.450 –> 00:32:20.070 Jason Mefford: The AIA is a business it’s a very large business and i’m just going to leave it at that.
168 00:32:22.020 –> 00:32:35.070 Jason Mefford: i’m just going to leave it at that do your research find out what you think is going on, but more important right is choose make your own choices on what you believe.
169 00:32:35.490 –> 00:32:47.850 Jason Mefford: And what you think is best for you for your team and for your organization right auditing standards be damned with that do what is right for you.
170 00:32:48.240 –> 00:33:09.420 Jason Mefford: Do what is right for your team do what is right for your organization and don’t do things just because other people are telling you that that’s what you should do, or because you read it in some survey or some report that either an individual an organization or a company puts out okay.
171 00:33:11.280 –> 00:33:32.910 Jason Mefford: So we’ve talked a little bit about ECHO Chamber we’ve talked a little bit about the recent pulse of internal audit document Now I want to wrap up with actually giving you some practical takeaways because, as I told you at the beginning, your life will be significantly constricted.
172 00:33:33.960 –> 00:33:55.980 Jason Mefford: If you choose to live in ECHO chambers, when you break out of those ECHO chambers and actually see what is really going on in the world and actually choose to do things the way you think they need to be done your life opens up for you dramatically, and you have much more freedom.
173 00:33:57.000 –> 00:34:05.550 Jason Mefford: And a lot of the stress goes away too okay So how do you get out of the ECHO Chamber because, as I said, leaving you with some practical things.
174 00:34:05.880 –> 00:34:13.020 Jason Mefford: Because even, as I told you, to begin with, you might have listened to this and thought Jason you’re full of shit well Okay, if you think i’m full of shit fine.
175 00:34:13.470 –> 00:34:18.870 Jason Mefford: Right, but I want you to think for yourself, and I want you to be able to support and.
176 00:34:19.800 –> 00:34:30.840 Jason Mefford: Have a reason for why not Jason I don’t like your voice, or I don’t like the hat you wore no tell me why you think what i’m saying is not true.
177 00:34:31.470 –> 00:34:41.820 Jason Mefford: Why you choose to believe what you choose to believe okay So the first thing is don’t just listen to the people that are right around you.
178 00:34:42.270 –> 00:34:53.220 Jason Mefford: actually see what others are saying as well now i’m going to give you an analogy for this, and again I told you earlier, I was in politics.
179 00:34:53.760 –> 00:35:02.130 Jason Mefford: And I would be in committee meetings, and I would come home at the end of the day, and I would watch the news.
180 00:35:03.090 –> 00:35:15.000 Jason Mefford: And I was in that committee meeting for two hours, I heard everything that went on in that meeting I would come home and watch the news and wonder hmm.
181 00:35:15.690 –> 00:35:26.100 Jason Mefford: What are they reporting on because I was in that meeting, and that is not what was actually said okay so as an example and analogy.
182 00:35:26.670 –> 00:35:36.720 Jason Mefford: If you want to know what is actually going on in the world, you should not look at one news source Okay, did you hear that.
183 00:35:37.320 –> 00:35:50.520 Jason Mefford: If you want to actually know what’s going on, you should not rely on just one news source so, for example, if I wanted to get a better picture of what was really going on in the world.
184 00:35:51.120 –> 00:36:02.250 Jason Mefford: wouldn’t I probably do something like read the Wall Street Journal listen to CNN listen to the BBC maybe listen to Al Jazeera.
185 00:36:02.880 –> 00:36:15.240 Jason Mefford: Maybe listen to you know, a Russian news service as well, and the more that I do that and I start to see the different perspectives from different people.
186 00:36:15.960 –> 00:36:28.680 Jason Mefford: I can then choose and make my own decision based on what i’m seeing different people from different perspectives say okay so that’s your first.
187 00:36:29.100 –> 00:36:38.370 Jason Mefford: takeaway and again use this in every part of your life okay don’t just blindly rely on what one person tells you go fact check them.
188 00:36:38.880 –> 00:36:48.270 Jason Mefford: And in and look at other sources as well, to see if it’s corroborating I mean come on folks if you’re trained as an auditor, you should already know this right you don’t just.
189 00:36:48.660 –> 00:36:56.790 Jason Mefford: pick one form of evidence, you actually look and make sure and validate that that it’s actually true and look at it from different perspectives.
190 00:36:57.480 –> 00:37:09.750 Jason Mefford: Second, one that you can do right, so the first one don’t just see or believe everything that others are saying, try to find other groups, in addition to those that you’re listening to.
191 00:37:10.230 –> 00:37:22.140 Jason Mefford: and learn from them as well, and then make your own choice, the second one get into other groups or communities, so that you can see other people’s perspectives.
192 00:37:22.680 –> 00:37:36.390 Jason Mefford: Okay, so find other groups, where you can actually join and get to know other people and learn other people’s perspectives in those communities as well.
193 00:37:36.810 –> 00:37:47.520 Jason Mefford: Because I will tell you again that will open your eyes, more than almost anything I told you i’ve traveled the world i’ve met and talk to people from hundreds.
194 00:37:48.300 –> 00:37:56.700 Jason Mefford: Hundreds of countries there’s only hundreds of countries Okay, I used to kind of keep track of and I can’t remember the totals now but anyway.
195 00:37:57.510 –> 00:38:05.370 Jason Mefford: sitting down with somebody hearing their perspective, who lives on the other side of the world, and as experienced something much different than you have.
196 00:38:05.910 –> 00:38:10.320 Jason Mefford: will help you to understand much better than all the things that you can actually read.
197 00:38:10.830 –> 00:38:17.970 Jason Mefford: So finding those groups finding those communities where you can actually interact with people.
198 00:38:18.360 –> 00:38:27.390 Jason Mefford: That come from different backgrounds that have different perspectives will help you to get out of that ECHO Chamber because you’re hearing.
199 00:38:27.750 –> 00:38:36.300 Jason Mefford: Other people’s perspectives you’re hearing other things that are actually going on in the world, and that will make you much more informed.
200 00:38:36.780 –> 00:38:48.690 Jason Mefford: And then you can choose again to decide, am I going to believe what i’ve been taught and what i’ve been told, or do I choose to believe something else.
201 00:38:50.280 –> 00:39:02.550 Jason Mefford: that’s my hope for you friends get out of the ECHO chamber, however, you can because, once you break free from your ECHO chambers your life opens up.
202 00:39:02.970 –> 00:39:15.480 Jason Mefford: Trust me i’ve done this religiously i’ve done this professionally i’ve done this socio economically, a lot of different ways that have opened me up.
203 00:39:15.900 –> 00:39:25.740 Jason Mefford: and have made me who I am today who can see things differently than most people do because most people are only looking at it from one angle.
204 00:39:26.190 –> 00:39:45.360 Jason Mefford: The more angles, you can look at the more value you provide and the better leader you actually are in your own life in your personal life and in your career as well, so whatever you do my friends get out of the ECHO chamber.
205 00:39:46.500 –> 00:39:51.600 Jason Mefford: And i’ll catch you on the next episode of jamming with Jason have a great rest of your week see ya.
With a lot of uncertainty about how long quarantine will be while lacking the ability to personally interact with other people, travel for a vacation, or attend public events a lot of people are having stress build up while not being able to de-stress in the old ways that we have been able to.
On top of that in today’s age of social media in a politically fractured nation we have been prolonging and potentiating our trauma associated with the covid lockdown.
In todays episode we discuss how to help de-stress and cope with any emotional trauma we have been dealing with over the course of this last year.
1 00:00:01.500 –> 00:00:06.629 Kathy Gruver: hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast i’m your co host Kathy Gruber.
2 00:00:06.930 –> 00:00:17.160 Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason medford and today we wanted to talk about something and we’re going to throw out a term here that many of you at first might say that’s not me.
3 00:00:17.789 –> 00:00:22.800 Jason Mefford: But I think you just start thinking about it and realizing as we’re talking today you’re going to realize.
4 00:00:23.190 –> 00:00:33.000 Jason Mefford: that many of us, you know if not you at least a lot of people around you are going through what i’ve just kind of coined code ptsd.
5 00:00:33.600 –> 00:00:37.650 Jason Mefford: And you know that post traumatic stress disorder or ptsd.
6 00:00:38.340 –> 00:00:47.070 Jason Mefford: That we talked about is something that is real in fact there’s been a lot of studies, based on military people and other stuff so we want to get in and talk a little bit today.
7 00:00:47.580 –> 00:01:08.280 Jason Mefford: About ptsd because there’s a very good chance that you or someone in your life is probably experiencing some mild grade ptsd from all the shit we’ve been going through, for the last year, plus as it relates to coven and some of the isolation so let’s get started Kathy hey.
8 00:01:08.640 –> 00:01:19.110 Kathy Gruver: yeah I think that’s a great idea and it’s interesting because it’s been now a year since i’ve been on a plane it’s been a year since i’ve done a talk in person, and the last talk I did was in or.
9 00:01:19.620 –> 00:01:24.420 Kathy Gruver: Somewhere in Texas Houston and it was sort of the week that everything started to shut down.
10 00:01:24.780 –> 00:01:38.400 Kathy Gruver: I did my talk and then three days later newsome in California shut the state down so that was sort of the last bastion of speaking, that I got to do and the woman said because i’m doing my stress talk and the woman said, you know, are you going to talk about coven and I went.
11 00:01:39.630 –> 00:01:49.200 Kathy Gruver: No like what am I going to say, and this was so early on in the days and I said no, what is there to say, but like it’s the same stresses everything else, and then I sat down and really looked at that and I realized.
12 00:01:49.980 –> 00:01:59.310 Kathy Gruver: it’s not the same stresses everything else you know most stress that we’re dealing with is this perception of stress it’s this imagine stress it’s this future based stress and coven is that.
13 00:01:59.670 –> 00:02:09.690 Kathy Gruver: But it also is here and now, like you could get really sick it’s a very scary thing, and I also realized that the the things that we used to do to de stress were taken from us.
14 00:02:10.320 –> 00:02:18.120 Kathy Gruver: There were so many unknowns about how it’s transmitted and how it’s going to affect you and when you’re contagious and how long we’re going to have to stay inside.
15 00:02:18.450 –> 00:02:25.260 Kathy Gruver: You know my boyfriend moved in on march 21 thinking it’ll be a week or two, we can sequester together.
16 00:02:25.500 –> 00:02:33.510 Kathy Gruver: And here we are on day I check my calendar down here, we are a day and who knows when this is airing but we never been living together pretty much a year we love it if we made it permanent.
17 00:02:34.170 –> 00:02:39.240 Kathy Gruver: But you know we thought this was going to be just this temporary thing, so I think one of the things that has led to this.
18 00:02:39.840 –> 00:02:44.880 Kathy Gruver: First of all, everyone’s exhausted from not knowing when stuffs gonna happen that quarantine fatigue.
19 00:02:45.150 –> 00:02:59.160 Kathy Gruver: But also we’ve had you know with this career go away thing of you can open no you can’t you can go out no you can’t here’s a vaccine and not yet you know, so I think it’s just that unknown ness of all of this is really starting to affect everybody everybody.
20 00:02:59.760 –> 00:03:09.870 Jason Mefford: Well, I think it’s it’s it’s one of those so maybe we you know it’s it’s it’s gone on for so long right, most of the time when we experienced trauma.
21 00:03:10.740 –> 00:03:24.990 Jason Mefford: It is a singular event okay so so again, it will there’s a difference between big tea and little tea right so big T trauma would be things like you know physical assault rape.
22 00:03:25.950 –> 00:03:33.720 Jason Mefford: You know, you know some sort of violence, this is why a lot of times people in the military habit because again when they’re when you’re killing people.
23 00:03:34.140 –> 00:03:44.790 Jason Mefford: or seeing dead people, that is a big T trauma kind of thing right and and luckily, most of us don’t experience some of those big T traumas and there’s.
24 00:03:45.330 –> 00:03:56.610 Jason Mefford: You know, some specific things we’ve talked about some of the different techniques on here before about ways to try to get past some of those things, but we all experience little tea kind of things right, where.
25 00:03:57.660 –> 00:04:03.060 Jason Mefford: Maybe somebody is mean to us, they say something hurt our feelings they’re emotionally abusive to us.
26 00:04:03.840 –> 00:04:13.350 Jason Mefford: You know at certain points in time and so again, you know tho those things become kind of these situations that we live through, but then it’s done right.
27 00:04:14.040 –> 00:04:29.190 Jason Mefford: But this has continued to be something that we continue to see and live with over and over and over again right and it reminds me, you know back September 11 I mean we’re talking 2020 years ago now.
28 00:04:29.760 –> 00:04:41.130 Jason Mefford: There was a lot of this similar kind of thing that happened and people were were really shocked at first why, but here was the reason right is.
29 00:04:41.550 –> 00:04:53.880 Jason Mefford: The buildings, yes airplanes flew into the buildings, the buildings crashed down 3000 4000 people lost their life, it was a horrible incident, but it happened one time.
30 00:04:54.570 –> 00:05:06.330 Jason Mefford: The problem was social media news everything else, especially young children were seeing these things hundreds if not thousands of time.
32 00:05:06.870 –> 00:05:21.720 Jason Mefford: And every time they saw it there, their brain felt like it was happening again, so this wasn’t an isolated event to them, this was something that was going on and on and on and on and that’s what we’re living through now.
33 00:05:21.750 –> 00:05:29.970 Jason Mefford: it’s gone on and on and on and on, like you said you know Okay, you can open nope now you can’t you know it’s like we keep going back and forth.
34 00:05:30.630 –> 00:05:35.340 Jason Mefford: And people are finally getting to the breaking point so that’s why we wanted to talk about this today.
35 00:05:36.360 –> 00:05:40.950 Jason Mefford: You know, some things that you can do some some ways to kind of help start working.
36 00:05:42.000 –> 00:05:46.710 Jason Mefford: Through this because, again it’s it’s starting to affect people in a serious way.
37 00:05:47.010 –> 00:05:59.880 Kathy Gruver: yeah I agree and and i’m so glad you brought up social media and the whole 911 thing because I remember on the fifth year anniversary of 911 I woke up that day I wasn’t really I mean you can’t now not think of that number, you know 911 that’s that’s.
38 00:06:01.110 –> 00:06:09.810 Kathy Gruver: POPs into your head, but I turned on the TV to look for something, and they were replaying the day’s events in order, as if it was actually happening again.
39 00:06:10.380 –> 00:06:18.090 Kathy Gruver: And I would like is the most horrible thing ever like Why would you replay this all these people that witnesses that last people that were affected by this.
40 00:06:18.390 –> 00:06:22.200 Kathy Gruver: You don’t want to turn on the TV and relive it moment by moment again.
41 00:06:22.740 –> 00:06:26.640 Kathy Gruver: And my husband at the time, said, well, I think they’re just trying to honor what happened and I said.
42 00:06:26.970 –> 00:06:34.560 Kathy Gruver: You don’t wake up every Tuesday the third of May and go i’m going to think about my rape today, I mean like you wouldn’t do that that’s not healthy.
43 00:06:34.860 –> 00:06:41.010 Kathy Gruver: You know, so I remember just seeing that replaying over and over and over again so it’s like I mean I hope you’re not doing that that’s a horrible.
44 00:06:41.790 –> 00:06:49.050 Kathy Gruver: But with the social media here was the problem with coven we are so divided about it, I have clients that still don’t believe it’s a big deal.
45 00:06:49.590 –> 00:07:01.110 Kathy Gruver: They still don’t understand why they have to wear a mask they still don’t know that’s just the flow I think we’ve proven it’s not now if you believe that that’s I get it, I don’t get it actually i’m not even gonna say that.
46 00:07:02.850 –> 00:07:10.980 Kathy Gruver: But like know where you’re getting your info from you know the now we’ve got the vaccines that are ready and there’s still a huge segment of the population that doesn’t want to get it.
47 00:07:11.550 –> 00:07:15.390 Kathy Gruver: Not because they don’t want to get it, but because they’re being influenced by.
48 00:07:15.750 –> 00:07:27.450 Kathy Gruver: Information that’s possibly untrue, so I think this is where social media is playing into this and the politics of this it’s divided us even in our opportunity to keel so turn off social media.
49 00:07:28.200 –> 00:07:37.200 Kathy Gruver: can be like for anything I think that could be the first step we take with us as turn off social media stop reading this inflammatory from both sides inflammatory rhetoric.
50 00:07:37.500 –> 00:07:43.710 Kathy Gruver: That is scaring you that is scaring people turn off the news turn off the social media.
51 00:07:44.040 –> 00:07:54.540 Kathy Gruver: And just do your own research, think about what you truly want think about what makes sense to you, without that outside influence and just be true to yourself that’s, the first thing i’d recommend for this.
52 00:07:55.470 –> 00:08:01.920 Jason Mefford: yeah, which is a good point because again like we said, you know, most of the time when you experience trauma it’s a once and done kind of thing.
53 00:08:02.430 –> 00:08:22.350 Jason Mefford: The reason it, it becomes an issue is because you’re usually reliving that thing in your mind right and so again like you said you know you wouldn’t wake up on on march 11 if that was a day that you got raped and and every day you wouldn’t consciously want to go through that again.
54 00:08:22.860 –> 00:08:34.080 Jason Mefford: But the reason why those big teeth, things are such big trauma things are such an issue is because people do relive them over and over and over again in their mind.
55 00:08:34.590 –> 00:08:41.730 Jason Mefford: right because of what had gone on and it’s the fact that you’re reliving that over and over and over again.
56 00:08:42.060 –> 00:08:53.640 Jason Mefford: That ends up reinforcing it in your life so again yeah an easy way with this is look just turn off the TV quit watching the news quit looking at social media for these kind of things.
57 00:08:54.000 –> 00:09:11.010 Jason Mefford: And just you know realize that hey in my little bubble right here, things are good right and don’t don’t continue to try to relive any of these things that you don’t have to because the more you relive it, the harder it’s going to be to take it away yeah.
58 00:09:11.580 –> 00:09:19.860 Kathy Gruver: And I found something interesting about this whole experience you know 2020 for a lot of people was incredibly difficult jobs were lost people got sick.
59 00:09:20.280 –> 00:09:32.280 Kathy Gruver: People got died people died and I talked to so many who said I gotta be honest 2020 was actually really good for me and you could see they’re almost hesitant to say that 2020 for me was.
60 00:09:33.120 –> 00:09:46.050 Kathy Gruver: a really good year financially, it was shipped but from a relationship standpoint from a work life balance standpoint from a I got to sit in that stillness and actually decide what I truly wanted to do with my life 2020 was an incredible opportunity for me.
61 00:09:46.980 –> 00:09:52.170 Kathy Gruver: i’m allowed to say that, without it minimizing the suffering of the other people, and I think we have to.
62 00:09:52.560 –> 00:09:56.880 Kathy Gruver: We really just have to own that truth ourselves if you got positive things out of that.
63 00:09:57.300 –> 00:10:08.460 Kathy Gruver: focus on those positive things shift that perspective and see what did I learn from grow from what can I take from 2020 that was not all horrible.
64 00:10:09.060 –> 00:10:13.470 Kathy Gruver: Sometimes it’s hard you know if your perception, was it was all horrible but.
65 00:10:13.860 –> 00:10:27.360 Kathy Gruver: To the extent that you can focus on those positive things see what good came out of that year because i’ve talked to so many people who got incredible things out of 2020 so shift your perspective and try to try to focus on the good stuff.
66 00:10:27.870 –> 00:10:40.260 Jason Mefford: yeah well that’s probably the second The second thing to write is you know, change your interpretation about it because, again it’s it’s I had a great 2020 it was a good year for me all around.
67 00:10:41.340 –> 00:10:50.190 Jason Mefford: You know, yes, am I getting a little tired and a little stir crazy and I want to go back to Disneyland and I want to go travel again, yes, I do right.
68 00:10:50.640 –> 00:11:01.050 Jason Mefford: And there’s some days when I can feel that heaviness of it too right, but again, another way you know, to try to get past, this is change your interpretations.
69 00:11:01.470 –> 00:11:09.870 Jason Mefford: Change the story that you are telling yourself about what you’re going through we’ve talked about we’ve talked about stories a lot.
70 00:11:10.290 –> 00:11:20.940 Jason Mefford: In previous episodes right So if you don’t like the story then change the story, because neither one of the interpretations is completely accurate anyway.
71 00:11:21.420 –> 00:11:32.190 Jason Mefford: right here, and so choose one that gives you that makes you feel better that that ends up helping you get closer to where you want to go.
72 00:11:32.670 –> 00:11:39.060 Jason Mefford: Instead of you know, further away, and so again like you said i’ve heard a lot of people say the same thing right like hey.
73 00:11:39.840 –> 00:11:50.430 Jason Mefford: Having the kids at home, it sucked at first, but it was actually really kind of good because it helps me to focus more on what’s really most important.
74 00:11:50.940 –> 00:12:04.050 Jason Mefford: focus on my relationships with other people, I mean have you know, a couple guys that I was friends with in high school we reconnected this last year and we’ve done some zoom calls and other stuff right.
75 00:12:05.250 –> 00:12:08.130 Jason Mefford: It was the fact of being locked down.
76 00:12:08.430 –> 00:12:12.660 Jason Mefford: The goddess to rekindle that relationship from over 30 years ago.
78 00:12:13.860 –> 00:12:23.220 Jason Mefford: So so look at and try to find the positives and focus more on those things, instead of the negatives would be another thing you can do.
79 00:12:23.670 –> 00:12:29.730 Kathy Gruver: yeah absolutely and to that exact point stay present you know I remember coming home from my office.
80 00:12:30.630 –> 00:12:35.310 Kathy Gruver: which was pointless and I couldn’t work, you know, I was doing a lot more massage than and I was pretty I was shut down.
81 00:12:35.670 –> 00:12:48.690 Kathy Gruver: And I walked in the door, and I had just found out my bad my bad I just had an emergency room visit, because my back had blown out and I ended up at emergency MRI and all these procedures and delilah I got a $6,000 emergency room bill.
82 00:12:49.170 –> 00:13:00.480 Kathy Gruver: The same day I realized that my taxes got completely screwed up because the divorce didn’t go through and time to do separately, so I was stuck paying back all the obamacare so so I basically had a $14,000 tax bill.
83 00:13:00.900 –> 00:13:12.750 Kathy Gruver: And a $6,000 emergency room bill and zero income, and I remember coming home, and I was sobbing I was, I was a hysterical mess sobbing and my boyfriend’s arms going.
84 00:13:13.170 –> 00:13:25.020 Kathy Gruver: Everything i’ve worked for is going to lose everything I mean it was just that was just this reactive completely overblown mess of a situation and I was acting purely from emotion.
85 00:13:25.890 –> 00:13:36.180 Kathy Gruver: emotion is there to help us into action feelings are not facts I did not lose everything I am not in the debtors prison somewhere, I did not go bankrupt.
86 00:13:36.540 –> 00:13:43.980 Kathy Gruver: I negotiated the the emergency room build down to hardly anything because I said i’m on unemployment, right now, they went, oh no problem, and they eliminated.
87 00:13:44.910 –> 00:13:48.810 Kathy Gruver: The taxes we worked out so that I owed six i’m not 14 you know it’s like.
88 00:13:49.410 –> 00:14:02.670 Kathy Gruver: Once you have that emotion honor that emotion and then get out of the emotion, you know you don’t sit there with your hand on the stove going wow that’s telling me that hurts oh that’s starting to smell funny I can’t feel my fingers you don’t.
89 00:14:04.410 –> 00:14:06.030 Jason Mefford: i’m smelling burning flesh.
91 00:14:07.860 –> 00:14:17.730 Kathy Gruver: Well that’s me Oh, I might want to think about someday moving get off the stove you know I honored that emotion, I express that emotion and then I went all right Fuck this, what can I do.
92 00:14:18.000 –> 00:14:25.200 Kathy Gruver: To actually solve this problem, and I think so often we get trapped in that emotion, we stay stuck in that place, which is what ptsd is.
93 00:14:25.680 –> 00:14:33.810 Kathy Gruver: And we don’t have the tools, the skills, the support the people around us to help us step to help us get our hand off the stove so find that.
94 00:14:34.230 –> 00:14:41.640 Kathy Gruver: place where you can have that support acknowledge that emotion that get out of it, it told you what it needs to tell you don’t need to hang on to it anymore.
95 00:14:42.360 –> 00:14:48.810 Jason Mefford: Well, and we’ve talked about some of these different techniques right so again, if you feel like if you’re stuck in your head.
96 00:14:49.110 –> 00:14:59.430 Jason Mefford: If you feel like your brain is going crazy, well, it probably is because it’s up in high beta wave frequency, you need to slow your brainwaves down we’ve talked about some of that stuff before.
97 00:14:59.910 –> 00:15:11.400 Jason Mefford: about how breathing exercises some things like meditation other things, to get you to just kind of calm down get more into the present moment.
98 00:15:11.760 –> 00:15:27.660 Jason Mefford: And when you do that again right feelings are not are not necessarily true their fear is not real it’s it’s getting back into that present moment, and those are some techniques that you can use to do that right.
99 00:15:28.170 –> 00:15:39.960 Jason Mefford: Even listening to music listening to calming music there’s a thing called by neural beats and there’s also Schumann resonance audios that you can listen to as well.
100 00:15:40.500 –> 00:15:52.890 Jason Mefford: That are at a certain frequency that as we listen to them, especially through headphones it actually slows down our brainwave activity gets us calm.
101 00:15:53.190 –> 00:16:04.200 Jason Mefford: You know we’re not freaking out anymore so there’s a lot of different things that you can use right if you’re freaking out to kind of get yourself back centered as well right.
102 00:16:04.710 –> 00:16:08.640 Kathy Gruver: yeah that’s so great and one of one of my favorite tools is cognitive restructuring.
103 00:16:09.000 –> 00:16:20.250 Kathy Gruver: Because it’s so often as those distorted thoughts that lead us to that emotion, which leads us to like either crazy making or action that isn’t helpful, so I come home and i’m freaking out i’m going to lose everything.
104 00:16:20.550 –> 00:16:30.660 Kathy Gruver: which caused fear and panic depression, all the stuff i’m going to lose everything really, really they’re going to come take everything that I own.
105 00:16:31.500 –> 00:16:32.700 Kathy Gruver: Is that a true statement.
106 00:16:32.970 –> 00:16:39.360 Kathy Gruver: That is not a true statement did I have to drain part of my savings account yeah that is not me losing everything.
107 00:16:39.630 –> 00:16:46.440 Kathy Gruver: But when we get into those stressed places that thought leads us to that emotion it’s all or nothing thinking it’s black and white it’s you know.
108 00:16:46.740 –> 00:16:55.200 Kathy Gruver: These complete exaggerations, these are cognitive distortions and when we can identify those and retrain our thinking, which is what the cognitive restructuring is.
109 00:16:55.500 –> 00:17:07.860 Kathy Gruver: Then we have a tendency to respond in a different way in the future, so you know if that situation comes up again, you can go Oh, I know what this feels like this feels like that day that Baba Baba Baba Baba you know.
110 00:17:08.340 –> 00:17:16.350 Kathy Gruver: And you can actually start to shift your thinking and your cognition on that and not be trapped in these emotional states that are coming from a place that isn’t true.
111 00:17:17.370 –> 00:17:20.070 Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s why you know you can do some of this stuff yourself.
112 00:17:20.550 –> 00:17:23.520 Jason Mefford: You can ask yourself those questions right.
113 00:17:23.850 –> 00:17:31.230 Jason Mefford: So again, the quality of your life depends on the quality of the questions that you ask, we can ask those to ourselves sounds like that’s what you kind of do right.
114 00:17:31.530 –> 00:17:39.360 Jason Mefford: Well, am I really going to lose everything no Are they really going to send me to jail, no, you know we don’t live in Victorian England.
115 00:17:41.340 –> 00:17:43.410 Jason Mefford: they’re not going to send you to jail, because.
117 00:17:44.910 –> 00:17:51.750 Jason Mefford: Right now, you know you get annoyed by the people calling you for debt collection but they’re not going to send you to debtors prison like they used to do.
118 00:17:51.870 –> 00:17:54.990 Kathy Gruver: Right I wasn’t even to a point where that was gonna happen.
119 00:17:55.290 –> 00:17:55.560 Jason Mefford: yeah.
120 00:17:55.620 –> 00:18:01.740 Kathy Gruver: You know I mean it was just it was such an exaggerated thought and it’s so interesting I was audited by the irs back in 2001.
121 00:18:02.700 –> 00:18:09.930 Kathy Gruver: nightmare don’t I don’t recommend it but, from that point on, of course, every time something came in the mail from the irs or if I get something from the irs I was like.
122 00:18:11.370 –> 00:18:17.730 Kathy Gruver: A total audit ptsd because it was the worst six months of my life, and I remember the year after the audit.
123 00:18:19.980 –> 00:18:27.360 Kathy Gruver: My tax return hadn’t been processed like nothing was happening and I checked online and it said delayed and my first thought was.
124 00:18:28.050 –> 00:18:38.490 Kathy Gruver: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I thought, maybe they were looking at the whole thing again I was completely freaking out, I called my accountant i’m like dude it says delayed, and he goes oh.
125 00:18:40.230 –> 00:18:41.400 Kathy Gruver: And I hear that Tony.
126 00:18:41.700 –> 00:18:44.760 Kathy Gruver: And I start to panic like oh my God they’re going to audit me again.
127 00:18:44.910 –> 00:18:47.820 Kathy Gruver: And then I went wait a minute what’s you know.
128 00:18:48.990 –> 00:18:53.910 Kathy Gruver: And I literally wrote this out on the forum for cognitive distortions, I said I know I did a perfect tax return.
129 00:18:54.780 –> 00:19:04.170 Kathy Gruver: I know I actually under claimed some deductions, so that if I was audited, it would go in my favor I know that I did nothing wrong.
130 00:19:04.920 –> 00:19:12.300 Kathy Gruver: I know that I have an enrolled agent and a CPA on my team that if something would happen, I have everything ready to handle them here’s what I know.
131 00:19:12.930 –> 00:19:23.100 Kathy Gruver: It says delayed millions of Americans are turning and their tax returns it’s just delayed, and until I get the letter that says something is wrong.
132 00:19:23.730 –> 00:19:33.240 Kathy Gruver: I don’t know that anything’s wrong, so I just went with delayed and about five days later, I got noticed that they received my tax return I got my refund blah blah blah blah everything was fine it was simply delayed.
133 00:19:33.630 –> 00:19:39.840 Kathy Gruver: And because of my past experience, I read all of this stuff into it, it was just delayed yeah.
134 00:19:40.860 –> 00:19:47.700 Jason Mefford: Well that’s a great example you know again kind of breaking apart there’s a real life example from kathy’s live.
135 00:19:48.300 –> 00:20:01.200 Jason Mefford: On exactly what we’re talking about right now it’s not covert, but it was audit ptsd right and and yeah I mean every time you know, every time you see police lights behind you right you get a little nervous.
136 00:20:01.260 –> 00:20:02.100 Jason Mefford: Every time you do.
138 00:20:03.990 –> 00:20:07.770 Jason Mefford: Every time you get a letter from the irs right it’s the same thing right and.
139 00:20:07.800 –> 00:20:13.260 Jason Mefford: You know I get I get them all the time for different businesses and family things that I deal with.
140 00:20:13.860 –> 00:20:24.420 Jason Mefford: And, but it, but again it’s like there’s no reason to automatically jump into that or if you start catching yourself doing that stop yourself, you know breathe.
141 00:20:24.840 –> 00:20:30.930 Jason Mefford: try to get present go through some of these cognitive question asking like you know Kathy just dead.
142 00:20:31.560 –> 00:20:38.340 Jason Mefford: and realize that you know what we don’t know what the future is going to be so create the story.
143 00:20:39.180 –> 00:20:45.090 Jason Mefford: That is the one that best serves you oh it’s delayed delayed doesn’t mean anything.
144 00:20:45.480 –> 00:20:55.530 Jason Mefford: Right so because of that i’m not going to let it mean anything and i’m just going to go about my business and Sure enough, there was no problem right.
145 00:20:55.920 –> 00:21:07.050 Jason Mefford: anxiety is in anxiety and fear right is worrying about something that may never happen yeah back, most of the time they never do so, we waste a bunch of energy, when we don’t need to.
146 00:21:07.350 –> 00:21:11.190 Kathy Gruver: yeah and we miss out on this present moment and then this present moment everything’s okay.
148 00:21:13.920 –> 00:21:18.630 Jason Mefford: yeah so I mean, these are these are kind of some simple things you know for for trauma in general.
149 00:21:19.110 –> 00:21:27.300 Jason Mefford: You know, but but let’s get into maybe a little bit more there’s you know if if you’re doing those things where you try those and they still don’t work for you.
150 00:21:27.900 –> 00:21:41.910 Jason Mefford: there’s other options as well right, and so you know let’s let’s maybe jump in and talk about some of the different options that people have we know hypnosis is one we talked a lot about that you’re a hypnosis.
151 00:21:43.350 –> 00:21:57.720 Jason Mefford: You know, and maybe just kind of explain to people briefly again hopefully if they’ve been listening to us forever they already know about it, but how does, how does something like hypnosis actually help people deal with things like ptsd.
152 00:21:58.200 –> 00:22:00.840 Kathy Gruver: yeah absolutely I actually did a whole course on ptsd.
153 00:22:01.350 –> 00:22:06.390 Kathy Gruver: Because I was working to do the training with the military, I just wanted to know how hypnosis would help with that.
154 00:22:06.630 –> 00:22:10.590 Kathy Gruver: hypnosis in general, it just goes into the subconscious and helps us make changes there.
155 00:22:10.800 –> 00:22:22.380 Kathy Gruver: So sitting in our subconscious there are knowns and there are unknown unknowns are very scary knowns can be negative, so if you know that every time you hear a car backfire it’s a gunshot you dive to the ground.
156 00:22:22.740 –> 00:22:27.900 Kathy Gruver: that’s that’s an exaggerated response to something that does not warrant it just like when I saw the word.
157 00:22:28.440 –> 00:22:34.860 Kathy Gruver: delay did I had this gigantic response thinking that reaction, frankly, thinking that something bad was happening so hypnosis.
158 00:22:35.160 –> 00:22:37.680 Kathy Gruver: you’re not asleep that we might use the word sleep.
159 00:22:37.950 –> 00:22:51.120 Kathy Gruver: you hear everything that is said to you you’ll remember everything that said, do and it’s just a matter of going into the subconscious and helping to make changes they’re helping to make those things less scary helping to magnify the positive helping you shift mindset.
160 00:22:51.810 –> 00:22:59.100 Kathy Gruver: giving you tools like anchoring in we talked about anchoring all the time, maybe it’s you rub fingers together or maybe you know, every time you pick up your ice T.
161 00:23:01.920 –> 00:23:15.120 Kathy Gruver: anchor in that relaxation, maybe it’s a trigger on your desk of every time I look at that picture reminds me to relax that sort of thing so there’s so many ways we can make changes in our subconscious and what’s so great about, that is, with the critical faculty.
162 00:23:16.140 –> 00:23:19.530 Kathy Gruver: Not as a critical factor Oh, I always get it wrong Mike Mandel is going to be so mad.
163 00:23:20.040 –> 00:23:21.060 Kathy Gruver: Your critical thinking.
164 00:23:21.720 –> 00:23:29.340 Kathy Gruver: The only way to get through that is dream symbols hypnosis so it’s so much quicker to do something under hypnosis is I love therapy.
165 00:23:30.360 –> 00:23:34.500 Kathy Gruver: And you know you could do six months of therapy and still not understand why you hate your mother.
166 00:23:34.920 –> 00:23:45.900 Kathy Gruver: And you can do things into sections of hypnosis so you know it’s such a great tool it’s safe they’re not going to make you cluck like a chicken you’re not going to lose yourself in the state of hypnosis you know media has really.
167 00:23:46.260 –> 00:23:59.130 Kathy Gruver: Just sort of destroyed our concept of what clinical hypnosis can be it’s safe it’s effective it’s such a great technique, it can be done over zoom it can you know so it’s I love it it’s one of my favorite things to do.
168 00:23:59.730 –> 00:24:06.360 Jason Mefford: It because it is it’s a much quicker way of getting there right because, again, you can go to talk therapy talk therapy is fun.
169 00:24:06.720 –> 00:24:11.130 Jason Mefford: Right, but just realize it’s probably going to take you a little longer right, just like you can.
170 00:24:11.610 –> 00:24:17.700 Jason Mefford: You can talk, you can have a bitch and moan session with your friends or you can talk to somebody who’s a coach.
171 00:24:18.120 –> 00:24:32.700 Jason Mefford: right that actually is asking different questions trying to get you to move you see there’s a difference right, and so you know, again, you can choose whichever one works for you, you know choose bitch and moan session with your friends that’s better than nothing.
172 00:24:32.820 –> 00:24:33.510 Jason Mefford: yeah right.
173 00:24:35.280 –> 00:24:36.540 Kathy Gruver: You just need to bitch I mean.
174 00:24:37.050 –> 00:24:38.850 Kathy Gruver: Sometimes you just need to complain about some stuff.
175 00:24:39.090 –> 00:24:46.170 Jason Mefford: yeah you know or find a therapist or a coach that can actually help walk you through some of the stuff find a hypnotist.
176 00:24:46.530 –> 00:24:59.550 Jason Mefford: You know I remember, we talked about brain spotting before brain spot as another another example of of of a technique that’s being used to be able to help people get through things like ptsd.
177 00:25:00.120 –> 00:25:12.270 Jason Mefford: And, and the reason it’s just like hypnosis it gets back into the subconscious and helps us kind of reprogram what happened or look at it objectively.
178 00:25:12.870 –> 00:25:29.730 Jason Mefford: Instead of continuing to have all these stories around it right yeah and it’s it’s those stories around it it’s the emotions that we’re bringing into it and, again, usually trauma things have negative emotions, which means we get stuck in negative emotions right.
179 00:25:30.780 –> 00:25:37.260 Jason Mefford: You know another thing that I that I like to is there’s a i’ve seen different versions of it but it’s like an emotional scale.
180 00:25:37.470 –> 00:25:40.740 Jason Mefford: yeah right where you’ve got fear and depression.
181 00:25:41.820 –> 00:26:00.930 Jason Mefford: You kind of down at the bottom and you’ve got you know happiness, but really it’s well being and joy at the top and and you know if you have a tool like that you can look at it and say how am I feeling right now, while i’m feeling, you know depressed well, can I move up the chain.
182 00:26:01.320 –> 00:26:10.470 Jason Mefford: Right, and so this is what i’ll do sometimes with people is there, you know they’ll you just try to move them up and you don’t try to go from the bottom, to the top all at one time right.
183 00:26:11.160 –> 00:26:15.510 Jason Mefford: But somebody might say, you know i’m so depressed or i’m feeling, you know.
184 00:26:16.830 –> 00:26:22.200 Jason Mefford: ashamed of something right because shame depression or like.
185 00:26:22.290 –> 00:26:23.880 Kathy Gruver: All the way at the bottom very low.
186 00:26:24.030 –> 00:26:34.650 Jason Mefford: Very low right and so again as as their friend or something else you can say wow you know that must that must be pretty hard, I understand that you know you’re feeling ashamed about that.
187 00:26:35.070 –> 00:26:45.270 Jason Mefford: That must make you kind of angry doesn’t it now Why am I pulling that in because anger, while still a negative emotion is better than shame.
188 00:26:45.630 –> 00:27:02.610 Jason Mefford: yeah so all of a sudden, if the people are like yeah you know what i’m pretty mad at myself and I did I did that again right well now you’re moving them from shame to anger still a negative emotion, but a better negative emotion, because then they get angry about it.
189 00:27:03.210 –> 00:27:05.220 Jason Mefford: And they kind of spew for a little bit.
190 00:27:05.490 –> 00:27:14.970 Jason Mefford: Then you move them up to something like hopeful well you know if you did it this other way, do you think next time it might be a little better hey yeah I think that could be a little better next time right.
191 00:27:15.360 –> 00:27:18.270 Jason Mefford: So you’re slowly starting to move them up.
192 00:27:18.780 –> 00:27:21.720 Jason Mefford: into higher and higher levels of emotion.
193 00:27:22.140 –> 00:27:25.710 Jason Mefford: And we can do it to ourselves, we can try to help other people as well.
194 00:27:26.040 –> 00:27:30.150 Jason Mefford: Absolutely, but it’s that’s another kind of simple little thing right.
195 00:27:30.480 –> 00:27:32.400 Jason Mefford: yeah and there’s all kinds of other stuff.
196 00:27:34.020 –> 00:27:41.400 Kathy Gruver: there’s eft I mean there’s so many different things we could spend all day talking about that looks for some of our past episodes we actually talked about London different things.
197 00:27:41.610 –> 00:27:45.780 Kathy Gruver: But you know there’s there’s tapping which we’ve not actually had an eft practitioner on the show.
198 00:27:47.640 –> 00:27:48.900 Jason Mefford: yeah we’ve talked about it because.
199 00:27:49.080 –> 00:27:50.310 Kathy Gruver: we’ve talked about it with.
200 00:27:50.370 –> 00:27:51.780 Jason Mefford: With Mike Mandel before I think.
201 00:27:51.780 –> 00:27:53.970 Kathy Gruver: yeah and the you know the tapping this point and.
202 00:27:54.060 –> 00:27:55.530 Kathy Gruver: You know, doing that kind of stuff and getting a.
203 00:27:55.530 –> 00:27:57.480 Jason Mefford: Big i’m a big swinging Dick.
204 00:27:58.800 –> 00:28:00.210 Jason Mefford: A great story go back and find.
205 00:28:00.270 –> 00:28:07.650 Kathy Gruver: Such a great story everything mcminnville says is great, and you know the technique that Donna was talking about, I already had a session with her, I know you’re about to have one.
206 00:28:08.130 –> 00:28:17.550 Kathy Gruver: her son was amazing I could feel the shift in my subconscious so anyway, we gave you a lot to do you’re stopping social media shifting your perspective, looking at some cognitive restructuring.
207 00:28:18.150 –> 00:28:29.430 Kathy Gruver: Even meditation and mindfulness you know it trains us to be less reactive to things around us, so you know, asking yourself what do I know to be true, focusing on the positive did I miss anything.
208 00:28:31.980 –> 00:28:34.020 Jason Mefford: I don’t know if we did go back go back and.
209 00:28:34.020 –> 00:28:35.880 Kathy Gruver: Listen to the episode so.
210 00:28:36.000 –> 00:28:44.130 Jason Mefford: back to the episode again right there’s a lot of good stuff in there, but yeah because there are like I said there’s some little things that we just gave you tips on.
212 00:28:45.270 –> 00:28:58.590 Jason Mefford: That you can do yourself right, and you can you can do other things you know there’s self hypnosis audios if you want to try that first fine usually the bigger the trauma, it is, the more you actually need the personalized help so.
213 00:28:58.590 –> 00:29:00.990 Jason Mefford: Find find a test.
214 00:29:01.080 –> 00:29:07.170 Kathy Gruver: I actually wouldn’t try to do hypnosis if you’re truly experiencing ptsd I wouldn’t try to do it yourself.
215 00:29:07.500 –> 00:29:09.870 Jason Mefford: No it’s that’s something that you need help with.
216 00:29:10.230 –> 00:29:21.030 Jason Mefford: yeah on that so but anyway, you know, again we feel you we know we’re feeling some of the same stuff too, so we thought we do this episode to just kind of.
217 00:29:21.510 –> 00:29:27.360 Jason Mefford: remind you again a little bit about some of the stuff we’ve already been talking about and how you can start using it now.
218 00:29:27.750 –> 00:29:38.190 Jason Mefford: And when you do you’re going to start feeling better right, because I know when I start getting a little Funk and I start doing some of these things that we’ve just been talking about I feel better yeah.
219 00:29:38.340 –> 00:29:39.420 Jason Mefford: i’m sure you will too.
220 00:29:39.630 –> 00:29:43.110 Kathy Gruver: Right yeah absolutely and let us know how you’re doing.
221 00:29:43.530 –> 00:29:53.550 Kathy Gruver: Let us know if you use some of our techniques or not our techniques, but if the some of the techniques, we recommend we’d love to hear from you and know how they worked for you, and if you have any that you suggest that we could maybe do a show on, let us know that too.
222 00:29:54.000 –> 00:29:57.030 Jason Mefford: yeah yeah perfect placement.
223 00:29:58.080 –> 00:30:01.680 Kathy Gruver: cool okay i’m Kathy gruver I can be reached at Kathy gruber.com.
224 00:30:02.130 –> 00:30:11.610 Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason effort, I can be reached at Jason method calm so go back, listen to the episode again and just pick something just do something a little bit different this week.
225 00:30:12.180 –> 00:30:23.490 Jason Mefford: To help you feel a little bit better and get through all of this coven ptsd or whatever you want to call it, and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast so yeah.
Have you ever worked for a horrible boss? If you are like most people, a couple of faces just popped into your mind.
It reminds me of a great movie “Horrible Bosses” movie from 2011. If you’ve seen it, I’m sure you got a lot of laugh out of it like I did.
We’ve all worked with horrible bosses who didn’t use Intuitive Leadership, Neural Influence, or Mental Mastery … and it’s HARD to be a leader without them, and painful for the people you work with if you don’t.
Now your staff hopefully don’t want to kill you, like they did their bosses in the movie, but it reminds me that it’s two very different things: being a boss, and being a leader.
Technical skills and a fancy title, doesn’t make you a good leader. In fact, you may be a horrible boss and not even realize it … and I’m sure you don’t want to be perceived that way, do you?
What does it take to be a leader with executive presence who can navigate through the politics, the good times, and the challenging times? Listen to the episode to find out.
Have fun listening and I’ll talk to you next week.
Get a VIP backstage pass and behind the scenes information when you join the VIP Lounge with Jason Mefford: https://www.jasonmefford.com/vip/
With the removal of the work / life compartmentalization since working from home (i.e. the decompression time on the commute home, the dedicated focused attention when you closed your office door, etc…) the world of remote work and working from home under COVID has affect our productivity quite a lot.
From finding workspace at home, raising children, internet bandwidth issues, and dealing with life in general, adaptability and communication is key.
Today we’re joined by Dawn Vogel who will share tips with us on how to handle this added stress of working at home.
1 00:00:02.340 –> 00:00:07.770 Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of Jamming with Jason. Hey today I’ve got a very.
2 00:00:08.820 –> 00:00:18.270 Jason Mefford: Special episode. I’m going to be talking to Dawn Vogel about something that i’m pretty sure almost every one of you is dealing with.
3 00:00:18.750 –> 00:00:25.290 Jason Mefford: And this is an important topic that I know lots of people are dealing with in something that honestly I personally.
4 00:00:25.830 –> 00:00:31.500 Jason Mefford: am not dealing with because my kids are all grown and gone they’re out of the House right.
5 00:00:32.010 –> 00:00:42.060 Jason Mefford: So today we’re going to talk a little bit about you know how to manage and all of these different stresses and anxieties and other stuff that you are probably dealing with.
6 00:00:42.480 –> 00:00:53.730 Jason Mefford: As you have children, you know you’re a leader and now all of a sudden, with a pandemic and things that we’ve been living through now all of a sudden, you have a whole bunch of additional roles.
7 00:00:54.090 –> 00:01:07.890 Jason Mefford: And how do you start becoming more adaptable and flexible, so you can take care of your family, as well as your career so with that let’s roll the episode and we’ll bring don in.
8 00:01:10.080 –> 00:01:15.540 Jason Mefford: hey don I am i’m so excited like I said I mean we’ve known each other for a while and I really.
9 00:01:16.740 –> 00:01:32.880 Jason Mefford: I really appreciate you taking time to talk about this because, as I told you, before I feel for people I empathize for people, but I am not in this situation right, I mean my kids are all grown they’re gone they’re out of the House, they live in different states.
10 00:01:34.200 –> 00:01:40.770 Jason Mefford: And and and so i’m excited to just kind of go through and talk with you so welcome today.
11 00:01:41.400 –> 00:01:51.420 Dawn Vogel: Thanks Jason i’m i’m very happy to help, and you know talk about where wherever this goes, I know that sometimes I always I, or at least during this time.
12 00:01:52.260 –> 00:02:02.700 Dawn Vogel: I look at various resources to find out things on how to handle it, but the reality is every case is different, and you have to pick and choose or.
13 00:02:04.560 –> 00:02:10.470 Jason Mefford: Well, I know it’s it, you know I find myself at times like that, and so I don’t know if you’ve kind of been there, too, but it’s like.
14 00:02:10.740 –> 00:02:18.810 Jason Mefford: You know you have a question that’s like hollins Google it right let’s see what other people are doing, and that can be helpful, but sometimes it can also be.
15 00:02:20.070 –> 00:02:26.400 Jason Mefford: It can take you down rabbit holes that are kind of crazy right so like like if you’ve ever you know all i’ve got this little ailment and.
16 00:02:27.060 –> 00:02:35.430 Jason Mefford: You start doing a Google search and maybe you have a headache and all of a sudden, you know 20 minutes into it you’re like oh my gosh I have cancer right yes everything.
17 00:02:35.520 –> 00:02:49.950 Jason Mefford: always comes back the cancer when you’re looking for health stuff in so i’m sure it’s it’s that way to as you’ve kind of navigated through this so you know again we’ve been in kind of locked down for or.
18 00:02:51.000 –> 00:03:05.220 Jason Mefford: Whatever we want to call it right for a year now so so maybe talk a little bit about because, because I know you know you’re an executive leader you’re leading people in your in your organization, but you also have a small child.
19 00:03:05.310 –> 00:03:13.470 Jason Mefford: As well right so so maybe let’s just get in and start talking about what are some of the challenges you’ve been experiencing.
20 00:03:14.550 –> 00:03:17.280 Jason Mefford: You know what are the some of the things you’ve learned.
21 00:03:17.490 –> 00:03:31.080 Jason Mefford: This year, and maybe again if there’s even any things that you’re still kind of struggling with like you know how do I do this, so we can we can kind of share with other people and give people a resource to kind of go back to.
22 00:03:32.010 –> 00:03:48.630 Dawn Vogel: Definitely so overview, you know, like everybody else march of 2020 we get the word that you know our offices are closing everybody has to work from home and school is now going to be from home as well.
23 00:03:49.350 –> 00:04:09.600 Dawn Vogel: And my son is 10 he’ll be he’ll be 11 in a couple of months so he’s in elementary school transitioning to middle school, so the I guess I don’t know if it’s good news or bad news, but the the adults got to transition home first.
24 00:04:10.470 –> 00:04:11.340 Dawn Vogel: And then.
25 00:04:11.760 –> 00:04:21.270 Dawn Vogel: Then spring break happen so at least we kind of my husband and I had probably about a week of us working from home full time.
26 00:04:22.080 –> 00:04:40.650 Dawn Vogel: Getting everything set up he has an office and i’m in a spare spare bedroom we had to find workspace and then my son was on spring break so At first we didn’t have to worry about anything and we didn’t know what was going to happen, and so, then we found out, we had to find him a space.
27 00:04:41.280 –> 00:04:41.940 Dawn Vogel: And one of the.
28 00:04:42.270 –> 00:04:49.260 Dawn Vogel: So one of the first interesting things that happened was the first couple days and all three of us are on the Internet.
29 00:04:51.630 –> 00:04:59.040 Dawn Vogel: When we really look at you know, things would stop and start, well then, we had to you know hit the pause button and then.
30 00:05:00.210 –> 00:05:02.400 Dawn Vogel: My husband had a goal find us some.
31 00:05:03.600 –> 00:05:05.130 Dawn Vogel: booster Internet boosters.
32 00:05:06.240 –> 00:05:09.930 Dawn Vogel: And set in set those up in the you know set those up in the House.
33 00:05:11.400 –> 00:05:25.860 Dawn Vogel: And then, of course, when we got closer to school winding down in about June that’s when the gaming started with my son in the streaming and then we have to readjust once again.
34 00:05:26.970 –> 00:05:30.060 Jason Mefford: That was taking up more bandwidth that was taken out more bandwidth and.
35 00:05:30.120 –> 00:05:46.440 Dawn Vogel: Then zoom meeting, so it was basically you know constant adjustment, I think I would describe if I did describe give one word to this whole thing, it would have to be adaptability, you know in constant adapting to different situations.
36 00:05:47.430 –> 00:06:02.250 Jason Mefford: yeah well because it because it’s interesting so like you said you know you and your husband got a week or so, to begin with, where okay first off you guys are home then your son comes home for spring break so he’s off for a week as well right.
37 00:06:03.210 –> 00:06:07.860 Jason Mefford: Then it goes back to school, but then I think at that point, it, it turns into virtual school for him.
38 00:06:07.920 –> 00:06:15.840 Jason Mefford: Yes, then you go for a couple of months, and then all of a sudden he’s off on summer break, again to right so So what are some of the you know I know.
39 00:06:16.260 –> 00:06:23.940 Jason Mefford: Before this we we all kind of have these discrete little containers, if you will, right, you probably had a routine in the morning.
40 00:06:24.270 –> 00:06:30.360 Jason Mefford: You get up everybody has breakfast you know, whoever is going to drop your son off at school takes him to school.
41 00:06:30.690 –> 00:06:39.450 Jason Mefford: Right, he he comes back home, however, he comes back home, you know kind of thing he might be there for an hour to by himself and you guys are there again in the evening.
42 00:06:40.290 –> 00:06:46.200 Jason Mefford: And you don’t have that now right so so you have those routines before.
43 00:06:46.740 –> 00:06:56.100 Jason Mefford: And now you don’t I mean How does that impact, you know your work day your husband’s work day other stuff like that, as well because.
44 00:06:56.430 –> 00:07:12.780 Jason Mefford: I mean, I remember when when my when my kids were little, and it was like constant interruption right to so So how do you how do you kind of deal with that in in trying to we always just talked before about work life balance right and that was now you’re actually really.
45 00:07:12.780 –> 00:07:13.980 Dawn Vogel: Living yes.
46 00:07:14.640 –> 00:07:17.850 Jason Mefford: True work life balance, because you don’t have that separation.
47 00:07:18.240 –> 00:07:23.610 Dawn Vogel: Correct I would say, we had to learn very quickly, how to communicate better.
48 00:07:24.300 –> 00:07:24.720 Okay.
49 00:07:26.790 –> 00:07:31.830 Dawn Vogel: What I mean by that is in in you have to repeat like nobody knew.
50 00:07:33.540 –> 00:07:36.540 Dawn Vogel: What each other did like you know, especially for my son.
51 00:07:37.110 –> 00:07:40.860 Dawn Vogel: He doesn’t didn’t understand the concept of what adults do when they’re working.
52 00:07:41.610 –> 00:07:59.880 Dawn Vogel: haha and so like you said, the interruptions so At first I started by saying okay just verbally saying to everyone in the House, I have a meeting from you know eight to nine whatever whatever the timing was I have meetings here’s my schedule.
53 00:08:00.990 –> 00:08:11.010 Dawn Vogel: and go into the room close the door and Lo and behold five minutes after I just told them i’m going into a meeting, please don’t interrupt.
54 00:08:11.520 –> 00:08:22.860 Dawn Vogel: Somebody walks in it could have been my husband, it was my husband, just as much as it was my son, although with there was only one occasion where my son walked in in his underwear.
55 00:08:23.520 –> 00:08:35.940 Dawn Vogel: And kind of walked walked in in the screen and the good news is it was people that I knew very well, I had a really good relationship with they knew I had a son and they just kind of they just kind of chuckled and.
56 00:08:38.670 –> 00:08:43.470 Dawn Vogel: We went about our business, but then after would be to have you know another conversation.
57 00:08:43.980 –> 00:08:44.580 About.
58 00:08:45.630 –> 00:08:59.520 Dawn Vogel: I said, you know I have meetings I said, you know it’s important to have boundaries and and then I said Okay, so the next thing I did was got some post, it notes stuck them on the outside of the door for everybody to read.
59 00:09:00.240 –> 00:09:11.280 Dawn Vogel: Well, sometimes that did not work either people would just walk in and then we’d have to have another conversation about I don’t understand what I need to do, and you may ask why don’t I just lock my door.
60 00:09:11.790 –> 00:09:16.290 Dawn Vogel: Well, when we built this House it’s probably about 10 years old.
61 00:09:16.830 –> 00:09:25.290 Dawn Vogel: Knowing that we would have children, somebody suggested you don’t want to put locks on your children’s door, so you don’t put locks on any of the spare bedroom doors.
62 00:09:25.710 –> 00:09:32.430 Dawn Vogel: So he didn’t well turns out now locks would probably be very useful situation.
63 00:09:32.880 –> 00:09:42.570 Dawn Vogel: But um it just took a little you know little bit of time i’m a little bit I don’t think it’s a little bit it probably took months for people to understand.
64 00:09:42.930 –> 00:09:50.970 Dawn Vogel: When I when my doors closed, and I have a post it note on the door that means don’t come in, and I would try to.
65 00:09:51.690 –> 00:10:07.740 Dawn Vogel: prop them, you know, a couple minutes before okay guys going into a meeting can’t please don’t interrupt me for the next hour need anything nope Okay, and it did get it to get better and it just takes you know takes practice on the reverse side to.
66 00:10:09.570 –> 00:10:19.290 Dawn Vogel: When you’re home with your spouse you’re used to just coming up with an you have some idea or activity, you need to talk about.
67 00:10:19.770 –> 00:10:24.480 Dawn Vogel: And you use just going to wander over wherever they may be, in your House to talk about it with them.
68 00:10:25.440 –> 00:10:38.280 Dawn Vogel: Well, I would do that to my husband, he would look like he wasn’t doing anything just looking at his computer and i’m used to see him sitting in his office doing you know personal no Internet searches that kind of thing.
69 00:10:39.120 –> 00:10:47.610 Dawn Vogel: And just get used to just walking in and talking about whatever it is, you need to talk about well that’s disruptive.
70 00:10:48.030 –> 00:11:01.680 Dawn Vogel: Because and i’m sure everybody feels this you get into a flow of your work and if you’re constantly being disrupted you eventually get very frustrated and irritable, to the point where you start having some.
71 00:11:04.140 –> 00:11:13.110 Dawn Vogel: heat not heated discussions, but you can just get frustrated and sense there’s no one else to vent your frustrations because you’re stuck in your House with your.
72 00:11:14.280 –> 00:11:20.610 Dawn Vogel: husband and son eventually sometimes they end up being it, you know a little more a little louder than maybe they would.
73 00:11:21.330 –> 00:11:22.050 Dawn Vogel: normally be.
74 00:11:22.410 –> 00:11:32.910 Dawn Vogel: Well, you just you just work through it and had you know, communication and I like to thank, even though we had to experience some of those.
75 00:11:33.780 –> 00:11:54.030 Dawn Vogel: times at the at the early time of the pandemic and my you know my son was here, and obviously seeing this I like to think that it was actually a good thing, because we all learn how to be better communicators and how and how to be more respectful of of just people.
76 00:11:55.500 –> 00:12:06.930 Dawn Vogel: There we know when they’re working when they’re not working, and just being more respectful in general, meaning try to get your own frustrations under control, so that you don’t take it out on others.
77 00:12:07.770 –> 00:12:12.360 Jason Mefford: yeah well that’s really important, I think you know that point that you made about the boundaries because it’s.
78 00:12:13.350 –> 00:12:17.490 Jason Mefford: I always joke to my wife that i’m kind of an absent minded Professor right so.
79 00:12:17.820 –> 00:12:23.100 Jason Mefford: So i’m like off thinking about whatever and it’s the same thing, like what you said, with your husband right he’s.
80 00:12:23.370 –> 00:12:33.000 Jason Mefford: he’s sitting there and it looks like he’s not doing anything so let’s just take this opportunity to talk about whatever we need to and he’s like damn it you’re interrupting me.
81 00:12:33.600 –> 00:12:54.030 Jason Mefford: look like you’re doing anything right and and that idea of having those boundaries, you know when we were going to work to a workplace usually there were those physical boundaries, so it was able, you know it was easier for us to turn on and turn off the work brain right.
82 00:12:54.210 –> 00:13:05.040 Jason Mefford: Yes, you know a lot of people would use the time traveling to work or coming home, especially the coming home as kind of a de decompressing time that you don’t really.
83 00:13:05.160 –> 00:13:13.530 Jason Mefford: have now and and having those boundaries is important right, I mean i’ve worked from home for 10 years so i’m very.
84 00:13:14.280 –> 00:13:17.820 Jason Mefford: familiar with it, but at the same point, you know, up until.
85 00:13:18.540 –> 00:13:28.920 Jason Mefford: I was a little over a year ago my wife hadn’t had a job outside of the home right and so she had that physical separation and so again when she.
86 00:13:29.250 –> 00:13:36.090 Jason Mefford: You know started helping me and working with my businesses, she she didn’t understand or have those boundaries either right.
87 00:13:36.540 –> 00:13:41.580 Jason Mefford: And there would be times when all of a sudden, I would have some thought at eight o’clock at night.
88 00:13:41.910 –> 00:13:48.780 Jason Mefford: And it’s like oh hey we’re just sitting here, and you don’t want to talk about it she’s like that’s business, you know we’re not supposed to be talking about that, after.
89 00:13:49.200 –> 00:13:57.990 Jason Mefford: A certain time right, so we actually set boundaries for ourselves that, if we talk about business after six o’clock, we have to pay our bedding jar.
90 00:13:59.820 –> 00:14:14.520 Jason Mefford: penalty or if I say something I have to put money in the JAR to so that we could kind of keep those boundaries, because for her it was hard to know well okay what when his work and when is not work right.
91 00:14:15.390 –> 00:14:19.470 Dawn Vogel: Definitely, and I think adding school into that.
92 00:14:19.680 –> 00:14:21.690 Dawn Vogel: You know, having a child and how school.
93 00:14:22.140 –> 00:14:24.930 Dawn Vogel: That because came even more interesting.
94 00:14:26.550 –> 00:14:44.340 Dawn Vogel: One of the things I know I did, and I believe my husband did as well is first we had to figure out what our what our son schedule was and what what it meant what kind of assistance and support, we need to provide him and we found out okay.
95 00:14:45.360 –> 00:15:01.110 Dawn Vogel: He needs support from you know eight to 10 o’clock in the morning, at least on the front, at least on you know, like a year ago, on when that when it first started happening, and so we both had to go to our employers or you know our bosses and say look.
96 00:15:02.670 –> 00:15:14.160 Dawn Vogel: This is the way it is our kid is you know in elementary school he needs a lot of support and so from eight to 10, this is what we’re going to do.
97 00:15:14.730 –> 00:15:23.190 Dawn Vogel: And then we actually figured out between my husband, and I think this is also very important, you do have to split the responsibilities, because.
98 00:15:23.670 –> 00:15:30.510 Dawn Vogel: It gets doing it all every day by yourself gets hard, and so you have to divide, you know.
99 00:15:30.810 –> 00:15:43.980 Dawn Vogel: divide, so we figured out okay he’s going to do the literacy and the social studies and i’m going to do the math you know the math and science, so we would split it up, but then, once we have that figured out we both went to our employers and said.
100 00:15:45.480 –> 00:15:51.480 Dawn Vogel: we’re not working from eight to 10 in the morning because we have to help us, you know help our son.
101 00:15:51.780 –> 00:15:59.640 Dawn Vogel: And we said, you know what will check our email make sure we’re not missing anything important but, for the most part we’re not available between eight and 10.
102 00:16:00.270 –> 00:16:10.200 Dawn Vogel: And they said Okay, but what that also meant was is so between 10 and you know five or you know, whatever the hours were we were working.
103 00:16:11.160 –> 00:16:18.900 Dawn Vogel: And then we’d have to stop you know stop take some breaks, you know, we need to eat to be would need to eat, but that would that would also mean is maybe.
104 00:16:19.530 –> 00:16:28.650 Dawn Vogel: One of us had to go back and work for another hour or so, to get some work kind of things done at night, so it was really you know, a balancing act, and I think.
105 00:16:29.670 –> 00:16:38.850 Dawn Vogel: One of the things I noticed now after doing that for approximately a year it’s hard to focus very hard to focus because you’re jumping from.
106 00:16:40.320 –> 00:16:50.070 Dawn Vogel: activity to activity to activity and it’s about you know prioritizing like who needs help and what what actions need to get done.
107 00:16:51.270 –> 00:16:59.250 Dawn Vogel: But we’re still we’re still doing that, but I have one of the things i’ve noticed is it’s getting harder and harder to focus because there’s no.
108 00:16:59.820 –> 00:17:18.300 Dawn Vogel: there’s it’s almost like we can’t turn one off and turn on the other, like we’re it’s always a constant we have you know work responsibilities we have school responsibilities, fortunately, my son is able to participate in some extracurricular activities like some.
109 00:17:19.590 –> 00:17:26.760 Dawn Vogel: You know, basketball and some esports which he needs because it’s really is only way you get some social interaction.
110 00:17:27.150 –> 00:17:27.690 Jason Mefford: Which is.
111 00:17:27.750 –> 00:17:33.990 Dawn Vogel: Which is very important, so it’s we lost the compartmentalization and.
112 00:17:35.010 –> 00:17:40.260 Dawn Vogel: Now becomes a part of you know, we have these activities that we have to do in a day.
113 00:17:40.680 –> 00:18:00.030 Dawn Vogel: And it just gets bumped from one to another, and maybe one day is more work and more home and in vice versa, so I would say that part of it is becoming more difficult because it’s just it’s makes your brain tired to have to think about that all the time.
114 00:18:00.870 –> 00:18:10.860 Jason Mefford: Well yeah and I wanna I want to talk more about the hard to focus, but before we go there, I just want to kind of double back on something that you that we were just talking about there, which is.
115 00:18:12.360 –> 00:18:17.130 Jason Mefford: You know the this whole idea of you know you had to both you and your husband.
116 00:18:17.580 –> 00:18:21.930 Jason Mefford: had to kind of go back to your employers and say look, you know, based on my son’s schedule.
117 00:18:22.350 –> 00:18:29.820 Jason Mefford: I really kind of need to have you know these two hours in the morning, where i’m unavailable right so i’m guessing at that point yet to kind of.
118 00:18:30.180 –> 00:18:35.070 Jason Mefford: Like block your calendar certain days from from eight to 10 so that.
119 00:18:35.520 –> 00:18:45.930 Jason Mefford: So that nobody got onto your calendar, and they would have to understand you know that as well that, for certain parts of the day, whatever they they are going to be i’m going to be a little unavailable.
120 00:18:46.500 –> 00:18:57.330 Jason Mefford: But i’m sure it works, the same thing with the people that that work for you as well, right, so this had to become kind of a juggling act between not only.
121 00:18:57.990 –> 00:19:08.400 Jason Mefford: kind of managing up but also managing down and realizing and having empathy for the people that work for you they’re in the same situation you are.
122 00:19:08.490 –> 00:19:09.030 Right yeah.
123 00:19:10.500 –> 00:19:10.710 Dawn Vogel: that’s.
124 00:19:10.920 –> 00:19:12.030 Dawn Vogel: that’s exactly right.
125 00:19:12.240 –> 00:19:12.930 Dawn Vogel: And then.
126 00:19:12.960 –> 00:19:19.590 Jason Mefford: It How does that all kind of work out because again it’s like everybody’s going to have kind of some different schedules i’m guessing to so.
127 00:19:20.040 –> 00:19:30.600 Dawn Vogel: Well then, it becomes priorities, it becomes very I would say my employer was great with being you know there, they are like whatever you need.
128 00:19:30.990 –> 00:19:41.160 Dawn Vogel: It so it was almost like whatever you need, as long as you get the work you know just here’s what we need to get done by you know, this time, however, whatever you need to get that done.
129 00:19:41.760 –> 00:19:49.140 Dawn Vogel: You know we’ll we’ll figure it out and so that that really helped, because then it became you know prioritization.
130 00:19:50.070 –> 00:20:02.640 Dawn Vogel: We need to get you know xyz project on by Friday, and so, and so is going to be doing more of the work at night, and maybe so and so’s going to be doing more of their work in the morning.
131 00:20:03.420 –> 00:20:10.620 Dawn Vogel: If you play if you talk through it and communicate and and prioritize everything.
132 00:20:11.220 –> 00:20:27.270 Dawn Vogel: It actually works out pretty well because, especially in an audit situation where there’s you know audit work and then audit review, you could plan it out pretty well where you know, maybe somebody was working on something later at nights or after you know.
133 00:20:27.420 –> 00:20:30.450 Dawn Vogel: I guess now it’s kind of hard to say what normal work hours are but.
134 00:20:31.740 –> 00:20:40.320 Dawn Vogel: They would get their their work done, you know, maybe between five and eight one night but then it would be ready for me to review right away in the morning.
135 00:20:40.860 –> 00:20:54.810 Dawn Vogel: And if I got on you know and i’m sure everybody else has stories wherever they’re working you know they were logged on it, five or six o’clock in the morning or 11 1011 midnight at night.
136 00:20:55.350 –> 00:21:13.230 Dawn Vogel: i’m sure people, people do that, but you know part of it was you know, a balancing act so like I said, maybe they worked on there’s five to eight at night, and then, if I logged on at seven in the morning, I could get it, I could get the review done and it actually you know worked.
137 00:21:14.760 –> 00:21:18.150 Jason Mefford: Well, because, like you said it does it does require that adaptability and.
138 00:21:18.150 –> 00:21:30.480 Jason Mefford: Flexibility right, I mean because I i’ve got, for example, i’ve got somebody on my team who he he’s a night owl right, I mean he’ll he’ll stay up sometimes until 234 o’clock in the morning.
139 00:21:31.170 –> 00:21:51.510 Jason Mefford: And so, he prefers to do a lot of his work then well i’m i’m already way asleep, you know at that point, but again, it was that same thing of communicating with him having those regular check ins right because we have regular check in standing meetings for certain times of the week.
140 00:21:52.710 –> 00:22:00.150 Jason Mefford: Just to make sure that there’s enough of an overlap, but like you said you know as long as we get the work done, then it doesn’t really matter.
141 00:22:00.240 –> 00:22:03.990 Jason Mefford: Right, because I know like he was I was talking with them actually on Friday.
142 00:22:04.500 –> 00:22:16.980 Jason Mefford: And he asked me a question he’s like yeah I didn’t I didn’t finish this because you know I had this question on it, but you told me it wasn’t due until the end of the month and I realized sunday’s the end of the month, so i’ll still get it done then.
143 00:22:18.030 –> 00:22:23.100 Jason Mefford: You know, Friday afternoon he’s talking to me about this and he’s like so he was working Saturday Sunday.
144 00:22:23.790 –> 00:22:33.750 Jason Mefford: To get it finished, but you know again that’s okay that’s that’s the flexibility that he has in his schedule, as long as the work gets done so, you know, I think it sounds like one of the.
145 00:22:34.500 –> 00:22:41.880 Jason Mefford: Leadership lessons for us, if you will, is you know just get the work done and allow people to be flexible and have that.
146 00:22:41.880 –> 00:22:42.510 Dawn Vogel: empathy.
147 00:22:42.540 –> 00:22:48.600 Jason Mefford: to realize that work hours are not going to be eight to five.
148 00:22:48.930 –> 00:22:49.410 Dawn Vogel: Right.
149 00:22:49.500 –> 00:22:54.930 Jason Mefford: Yes, they always used to be, because we’ve got all this other stuff that has to get done to.
150 00:22:55.650 –> 00:22:56.040 Jason Mefford: yeah.
151 00:22:56.820 –> 00:23:06.690 Dawn Vogel: And then, if an emergency popped up like it usually doesn’t know in the audit world learn what I could do is say you know it happened this morning.
152 00:23:07.380 –> 00:23:20.040 Dawn Vogel: there’s something out there to my team and Mike I need this done today who can work on it and then usually pete you know people you know people respond, you know I can do that, and as long as you tell them.
153 00:23:20.580 –> 00:23:33.540 Dawn Vogel: You know this is now a priority, one I know, yesterday I said he was priority one, but now be is as long as you tell folks what the priorities are and when it needs to get done work it’s done yeah.
154 00:23:33.690 –> 00:23:36.180 Jason Mefford: but also in that prioritizing is important.
155 00:23:37.620 –> 00:23:50.040 Jason Mefford: In setting and setting the specific deadlines right like I said I mean I when I said end of the month i’m thinking Friday he’s thinking no end of the month is Sunday, I don’t wanna I don’t care i’m not gonna do anything till Monday anyway right.
156 00:23:50.040 –> 00:23:58.380 Jason Mefford: yeah yeah so that’s that probably all works out to so so let’s go back to this hard to focus because, again, this is, this is something.
157 00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:01.140 Jason Mefford: You know, because i’ve done a lot of work.
158 00:24:01.470 –> 00:24:12.600 Jason Mefford: In psychology and and try to help share this with people too, but I know that that one of the things that is very hard you talk, you talked earlier about getting into the flow.
159 00:24:13.110 –> 00:24:13.530 Dawn Vogel: mm hmm.
160 00:24:13.650 –> 00:24:20.160 Jason Mefford: And, and we do end up doing that, in fact, you know that’s why things like multitasking.
161 00:24:20.670 –> 00:24:28.140 Jason Mefford: can be so damaging for us because it’s interesting there’s actually been a lot of scientific research that’s been done on this.
162 00:24:28.620 –> 00:24:33.210 Jason Mefford: And, and what they’ll do is they’ll give somebody an IQ test right.
163 00:24:33.720 –> 00:24:48.870 Jason Mefford: And then they’ll put them through these experiments right, and so the experiments are usually having them multitask interrupting doing all these kinds of things in this short period of time and then at the end of that they would give them another IQ.
164 00:24:48.870 –> 00:24:49.290 test.
165 00:24:50.610 –> 00:24:57.300 Jason Mefford: Not a surprise IQ is go down right, so I like to say multitasking makes you stupid.
166 00:24:58.470 –> 00:25:08.550 Jason Mefford: Because because it actually lowers our cognitive abilities were not able to perform as well, the more that we get interrupted right so.
167 00:25:09.330 –> 00:25:21.960 Jason Mefford: So how how have you dealt with you know some of this kind of stuff because again getting interrupted like that that does lead us to you know being irritable angry.
168 00:25:22.500 –> 00:25:33.990 Jason Mefford: Other stuff like that, where those emotions anytime that we’re hungry angry lonely or tired if we’re any of those things hungry angry lonely or tired.
169 00:25:34.770 –> 00:25:48.030 Jason Mefford: When some stressor or trigger happens, we tend to react emotionally in a not so good way right, I think you know before we were talking about the voice levels being elevated.
170 00:25:48.960 –> 00:25:51.180 Jason Mefford: Yes, not that i’ve ever experienced.
171 00:25:51.540 –> 00:26:03.030 Jason Mefford: So, but, but you know how do you how do you kind of cope with with that and then, and again I mean kind of seemingly these we already have enough as leaders.
172 00:26:03.390 –> 00:26:15.600 Jason Mefford: Anyway, in our job, but then, when you compound everything with you know your husband your son to school at the everything else, I mean, how do you kind of work through or deal with that.
173 00:26:16.440 –> 00:26:27.900 Dawn Vogel: um I had to learn what my own triggers were and listen and not only learn what they work, as in the pandemic, I would say there’s there are different ones.
174 00:26:28.560 –> 00:26:35.070 Dawn Vogel: That maybe you didn’t notice that weren’t that weren’t there before like maybe before I could handle.
175 00:26:36.870 –> 00:26:53.760 Dawn Vogel: asking my son to brush his teeth two times and then maybe you know, on a certain day because of everything else you know after one time, I would lose it so it’s just kind of recognizing what you know what those triggers are.
176 00:26:55.170 –> 00:27:03.360 Dawn Vogel: And then you know, taking a breath so like if I if I know like i’ve had a long a long day at work.
177 00:27:04.650 –> 00:27:24.540 Dawn Vogel: I know I need to have some you know 510 minutes, whatever it is, of meat time just to decompress you know decompress before I talked to my son or husband about you know things that we need to do that evening you know what we need to do as a family as a family.
178 00:27:26.310 –> 00:27:46.470 Dawn Vogel: And that can be hard, I think that that’s been difficult during the pandemic because because all the boundaries and compartments are gone because everybody’s doing everything from one place, excuse me, so that was that was definitely an adjustment to figure out how to.
179 00:27:48.480 –> 00:27:53.250 Dawn Vogel: recognize it sooner and then take it just take a timeout.
180 00:27:54.840 –> 00:28:01.170 Jason Mefford: I think that’s you know you two are two of the phrases that you just use there that I love is the timeout.
181 00:28:01.860 –> 00:28:09.930 Jason Mefford: and breathe right because because, again, you know I mean this is it it’s a classic parenting skill right as you put your kid in timeout.
182 00:28:10.620 –> 00:28:20.310 Jason Mefford: If they’re not acting or behaving in a way that we want them to right, so we, we can have separate them not to isolate them or anything but.
183 00:28:20.730 –> 00:28:33.180 Jason Mefford: You know just to let them kind of get their emotions in check right so it’s it’s I love that idea, though, of kind of putting ourself in timeout right.
184 00:28:33.240 –> 00:28:44.190 Jason Mefford: yeah and that and that it’s Okay, you know, like if if if we’re talking and all of a sudden, I I start to recognize her feel that i’m getting triggered.
185 00:28:45.360 –> 00:28:59.760 Jason Mefford: We can continue to talk, but if we do that voices might get elevated I might say something that I regret later and so it’s better for us at that point for me to say you know what don just a minute.
186 00:29:00.630 –> 00:29:15.660 Jason Mefford: I need I need five minutes and then let’s pick up this discussion i’m going to put myself in a timeout right take that time go away have that meantime do whatever you need to to kind of you know.
187 00:29:16.770 –> 00:29:29.220 Jason Mefford: Balance back down what needs to be done and the other one you know with breathing is you know yeah sometimes we can’t say I need a five minute timeout but breathing in another little trick that I love is.
188 00:29:29.820 –> 00:29:41.250 Jason Mefford: The seven seconds right, and so you probably have heard me say this before right where usually, when we get triggered our subconscious brain actually recognizes it.
189 00:29:41.880 –> 00:29:54.030 Jason Mefford: seven seconds before our conscious mind actually picks it up and so something as simple as breathing for 10 seconds or pausing in the conversation.
190 00:29:54.540 –> 00:30:11.100 Jason Mefford: For 10 seconds can allow us to adjust and again i’m people that are listening are probably thinking we’re crazy talking about this, but you know just try it right try breathing just stop and take deep breaths for a minute or a minute and a half.
191 00:30:12.330 –> 00:30:24.000 Jason Mefford: And you will be surprised the difference that you feel right and and again this is something that one of the techniques is called tactical breathing, why is it called tactical breathing.
192 00:30:24.300 –> 00:30:26.190 Because they teach it to military.
193 00:30:27.210 –> 00:30:40.860 Jason Mefford: Seal, you know, like navy seals special operations military people because they get themselves in those times when they’re freaking out i’m sure if you know if you’re stuck stranded somewhere and people are shooting at you you’re going to be freaking out.
194 00:30:41.820 –> 00:30:42.420 Dawn Vogel: I would mean.
195 00:30:42.960 –> 00:30:43.530 Jason Mefford: It would be.
196 00:30:44.580 –> 00:30:57.810 Jason Mefford: So it’s it’s a simple technique of even that you can do in 90 seconds to help you kind of focus ground yourself again and then be able to come back so sounds like that’s been something that has been very helpful for you.
197 00:30:58.830 –> 00:31:13.050 Dawn Vogel: It has, and if you vocalize it people understand both at home and at work if I say I need five minutes people figured out what that means.
198 00:31:13.980 –> 00:31:17.340 Jason Mefford: And you don’t say why right right in.
199 00:31:17.550 –> 00:31:23.790 Dawn Vogel: You know, even in a zoom meeting if i’m you know zooming with my team or with my boss.
200 00:31:25.200 –> 00:31:35.040 Dawn Vogel: it’s important to say like I just need it i’m just i’m thinking about that for a minute our spawn in a minute or can we can I.
201 00:31:35.670 –> 00:31:47.430 Dawn Vogel: Think about that one for a minute and i’ll call you back you know, like in a work setting, but like at home at home, it works too, and the amazing part is once one person does it.
202 00:31:48.180 –> 00:32:04.950 Dawn Vogel: In people other people figure out the benefits of it, they start doing it too, and before you know it everybody’s being respectful of everybody else’s you know you know what’s going on, and it really stops a situation from escalating.
203 00:32:06.300 –> 00:32:13.980 Jason Mefford: Well, I think what you just kind of explained there, too, is kind of one of the leadership concepts that I want to kind of beat into people.
204 00:32:13.980 –> 00:32:28.050 Jason Mefford: To is, if you want to change the world, you know how you do it, you change yourself and use us start modeling the behavior that you want other people to follow.
205 00:32:28.620 –> 00:32:39.450 Jason Mefford: So in that instance right, you know again it’s like you know you can you can probably tell somebody starting to get triggered and it’s like Oh, I need I need to put my husband in the timeout right, I know my wife said that sexual.
206 00:32:40.560 –> 00:32:50.760 Jason Mefford: right but but we can’t say hey you need to go take a timeout right, because if you do that, then that’s kind of forcing the person there’s resentment there’s.
207 00:32:51.210 –> 00:32:52.560 Dawn Vogel: there’s resistance.
208 00:32:52.890 –> 00:33:07.860 Jason Mefford: At that point right, but you know if again if we’re the leader or we’re in the situation if we if we see ourselves starting to get triggered or if we see the other person to start to get triggered we’ll just put yourself in a.
209 00:33:07.860 –> 00:33:08.640 Dawn Vogel: Time yeah.
210 00:33:08.910 –> 00:33:21.810 Jason Mefford: Right, even if we don’t need it, if we see that they need it then ask for that vocalize it communicate it, because when you do, then all of a sudden now you’re also modeling that behavior.
211 00:33:22.530 –> 00:33:38.730 Jason Mefford: That you want them to do they see it’s okay you’re doing it as the leader, so it must be okay, so the next time, maybe when they feel triggered it’s Okay, for them to say hey I just need five minutes or I need to think about this for an hour, let me get back to you.
212 00:33:38.820 –> 00:33:40.500 Jason Mefford: yeah right wow.
213 00:33:41.640 –> 00:33:42.660 Jason Mefford: Good stuff.
214 00:33:42.720 –> 00:33:43.440 Dawn Vogel: It is.
215 00:33:43.800 –> 00:33:45.150 Jason Mefford: I mean it’s it’s um.
216 00:33:46.350 –> 00:33:54.060 Jason Mefford: You know this whole time I know I know for a lot of people it’s been really hard but it’s also you know for people like you.
217 00:33:55.110 –> 00:34:13.230 Jason Mefford: This has actually been a great opportunity, you know, for you to communicate better have the boundaries, some of these things that we should have had beforehand anyway, but we didn’t because we weren’t kind of forced into that situation right yeah good stuff.
218 00:34:13.590 –> 00:34:23.490 Dawn Vogel: And I think for the younger people for all the children of various ages that are going through this, I know, and I talked to my son’s teachers, a lot of office to.
219 00:34:24.270 –> 00:34:35.310 Dawn Vogel: there’s this constant worry of oh they’re going to be a year behind from an academic perspective and I, and I always say you know what may or may not be the case.
220 00:34:35.370 –> 00:34:37.950 Dawn Vogel: Humans are resilient and they can.
221 00:34:38.100 –> 00:34:49.020 Dawn Vogel: catch up, so we won’t you know we won’t know the impact of that until much, much further down the road but they’re learning other very valuable lessons at an earlier age.
222 00:34:49.650 –> 00:34:58.020 Dawn Vogel: Like you know, hopefully, my son is seeing how we communicate at home and handle the stress and anxiety and my hope is that.
223 00:34:59.370 –> 00:35:03.000 Dawn Vogel: When he is an adult he will have these.
224 00:35:04.110 –> 00:35:12.240 Dawn Vogel: tools and be able to process them without even thinking about it because you’ve learned how to do it at such a young age.
225 00:35:13.080 –> 00:35:21.000 Jason Mefford: Well yeah I mean because that that is it’s a blessing that you’re giving your your son, some of these skills that we need as adults.
226 00:35:21.060 –> 00:35:26.070 Jason Mefford: Yes, a lot of us as adults are trying to learn the lessons.
227 00:35:26.820 –> 00:35:35.430 Jason Mefford: Right, yes, because we’re forced to but, like you said, I mean and that’s that’s where it is really with anything for us to really learn, we have to practice it to exercise.
228 00:35:36.000 –> 00:35:42.960 Jason Mefford: And, and the more that we do that, the more unconscious those things become right is that unconscious competence.
229 00:35:43.050 –> 00:35:43.410 Dawn Vogel: yeah.
230 00:35:43.590 –> 00:35:52.170 Jason Mefford: That we aspire to that we all of a sudden just start doing things and we don’t even recognize we’re doing it because they become habits.
231 00:35:52.200 –> 00:36:02.400 Jason Mefford: Yes, and that’s just just how we actually do that so yeah i’m i’m excited to see how this younger generation is going to turn out because I, I agree with you, I think these are actually.
232 00:36:03.840 –> 00:36:11.310 Jason Mefford: Good lesson for younger children to learn that will end up making them better adults as well.
233 00:36:12.030 –> 00:36:12.810 Dawn Vogel: I think so.
234 00:36:13.950 –> 00:36:19.410 Jason Mefford: Well, this has been a great discussion I guess you know before before we kind of wrap up here, I just wanted to see to you know.
235 00:36:20.310 –> 00:36:31.470 Jason Mefford: Are there any other things that you’ve kind of thought about that you’d like to share with people that you found helpful or that you, you think that that would be good, you know, for them to hear that we haven’t already talked about.
236 00:36:32.700 –> 00:36:54.300 Dawn Vogel: I think the main thing is just use your resources like people you know it’s it’s okay to ask for help it’s Okay, you know i’m not a teacher, I can ask my son’s teachers, how do I get him to do his homework, without having to yell at him, you know all night I can ask my.
237 00:36:55.650 –> 00:37:04.860 Dawn Vogel: tell my boss, I need help, because I need to rearrange my schedule to same thing with my my team.
238 00:37:05.370 –> 00:37:15.090 Dawn Vogel: i’m not going to be available between xyz it’s Okay, for you to to do the same thing as long as you communicate it I think that’s really the another.
239 00:37:15.570 –> 00:37:29.520 Dawn Vogel: Learning point is is just ask everybody, you may not think that you are in the same boat as everybody else, but you are at least maybe not your neighbor but there’s somebody you can find somebody who’s in the same boat.
240 00:37:31.500 –> 00:37:36.660 Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s what i’m hoping, you know, everybody who’s listening now realizes.
241 00:37:37.110 –> 00:37:52.590 Jason Mefford: Because again a lot of times we feel isolated we feel alone we don’t feel like everybody else is in the same boat, that we are, and so we feel silly we feel weak, we feel, whatever right that, oh no, you know I can’t ask for help, because that would mean that i’m weak.
242 00:37:52.950 –> 00:37:56.760 Jason Mefford: and other thing that I learned a long time ago that I really believe is.
243 00:37:57.060 –> 00:38:06.840 Jason Mefford: It takes more courage to ask for change, then, and to actually make the change than it does to just continue doing what you’ve been doing.
244 00:38:06.930 –> 00:38:18.420 Jason Mefford: Yes, because it ends up leading to that anxiety it gets to a point of a lot of times burnout maybe depression, other things like that, and so it’s okay to ask for help.
245 00:38:18.690 –> 00:38:20.640 Jason Mefford: I think it’s a huge thing.
246 00:38:22.530 –> 00:38:37.200 Jason Mefford: You know, for people to realize we don’t have to do this, all by ourselves there’s other people in the same situation there’s other people who want to help and and all we have to do is is reach out and find some of those other other alternatives.
247 00:38:37.560 –> 00:38:39.510 Dawn Vogel: Yes, very.
248 00:38:40.710 –> 00:38:54.600 Jason Mefford: Good stuff good stuff done, I really appreciate you taking time and sharing and being open and honest with people of what what you’ve kind of gone through yourself, because you know, again, I know that people are going to find this helpful.
249 00:38:57.180 –> 00:39:09.390 Jason Mefford: As well as we all get through this together, yes right we’re gonna get through this together, because humans are resilient and and we find we find a way to adapt.
250 00:39:09.540 –> 00:39:15.840 Jason Mefford: Yes, and to be flexible and to work through whatever you know this life ends up throwing at us.
251 00:39:16.650 –> 00:39:17.220 agreed.
252 00:39:18.780 –> 00:39:23.640 Jason Mefford: Well, thanks don really appreciate you like, I said and just you know.
253 00:39:24.450 –> 00:39:39.180 Jason Mefford: Wishing wishing you the best of success is again we move through and we don’t know what the future is going to hold, but obviously you’ve learned some things this last year that are going to help make you much more adaptable and flexible, regardless of what life throws your way.
254 00:39:40.920 –> 00:39:42.570 Dawn Vogel: Thanks Jason I appreciate it.
In our current days of Covid-19 it has been incredibly difficult to travel. If you want to go on that destination vacation despite our lockdown restrictions, today’s episode may be a little helpful.
How we may not be able to physically leave our local confines, we do in fact have the ability to trick our brains into feeling as if we are on a vacation.
Sit back, relax, and let Kathy and Jason walk you through, how you can get started on your own mental vacation.
Transcript
1 00:00:01.949 –> 00:00:06.750 kathygruver: hey everybody welcome back to the fire earth podcast i’m your co host Kathy group.
2 00:00:07.140 –> 00:00:12.480 Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason medford and today we thought we would take a vacation together.
3 00:00:13.259 –> 00:00:16.170 Jason Mefford: Oh might be asking why are we doing that, where.
4 00:00:16.529 –> 00:00:17.340 Jason Mefford: You know this whole.
5 00:00:18.510 –> 00:00:35.160 Jason Mefford: You know, an hour and 21 coven thing we can’t go anywhere and, yes, you know, we have not been able to travel like we have before and I felt it, you know my wife’s felt it we’ve we usually would have been traveling it’s been a long time, you know in fact.
6 00:00:36.510 –> 00:00:45.690 Jason Mefford: Actually uh i’ve slept in my own bad for like a year and a half, I haven’t really gone anywhere up until just except to see my mother in law.
7 00:00:46.560 –> 00:00:51.660 Jason Mefford: pretty much for a year year and a half, until this last trip that I just went on so.
8 00:00:52.500 –> 00:01:05.400 Jason Mefford: And I know that many of you might be doing the same thing right you’re going a little stir crazy it feels like groundhog’s day you’re like damn it, I just want to take a vacation I just want to go to.
9 00:01:05.820 –> 00:01:17.190 Jason Mefford: xyz wherever that happens to be so we thought we talked a little bit about some ways that you can go there, even if you physically can’t go there, right now, so.
10 00:01:18.060 –> 00:01:20.190 Jason Mefford: You got Kathy what are some suggestions you have.
11 00:01:20.460 –> 00:01:28.830 kathygruver: Well here’s what’s really cool about our brain our brain does not recognize the difference between what it’s thinking about and imagining and what’s actually happening.
12 00:01:29.220 –> 00:01:36.210 kathygruver: This is why, if you start to remember things from the past that are really upsetting you can actually put yourself back into that physiological stress response.
13 00:01:36.450 –> 00:01:41.310 kathygruver: If you think about the greatest thing that ever happened to you, those endorphins are going to go and you’re going to relive that.
14 00:01:41.670 –> 00:01:52.590 kathygruver: This is why we can get so into movies, like screaming he’s a good guy I don’t get it a cartoon we get so into it, we think we’re fighting the bad guys right along with Harry Potter right we’re in that with them or.
15 00:01:52.620 –> 00:01:54.510 Jason Mefford: We wake up actually like shuttered as.
16 00:01:55.950 –> 00:01:57.270 Jason Mefford: Well, yes.
17 00:01:57.330 –> 00:02:09.120 kathygruver: or it’s a horror movie I were watching a horror movie as a kid and screaming that Jason was on the roof of the car and it’s like they can’t they can’t hear me but you’re so into that with that you know they really listen to the audience as a screen right they’ve never go in that closet.
18 00:02:10.410 –> 00:02:14.910 kathygruver: So our brain just thanks those things are real, is why we can wake up from a dream and be like.
19 00:02:15.480 –> 00:02:21.600 kathygruver: Did you save me from that dragon you know I mean i’ve actually woken up matic people because it’s like there’s something happened in a dream.
20 00:02:22.020 –> 00:02:28.650 kathygruver: Or you feel incredibly guilty about something that happened in the dream I had a client that had a dream, he slept with his neighbor’s wife.
21 00:02:29.280 –> 00:02:38.790 kathygruver: And wanted to go tell the neighbor and i’m like no that’s a very bad idea let’s just keep that between us, let us know that it didn’t happen.
22 00:02:39.180 –> 00:02:50.370 kathygruver: let’s not open that up, but he felt this this huge amount of emotion for something that wasn’t even real so given all that you can go on a vacation in your mind.
23 00:02:51.060 –> 00:02:56.130 kathygruver: Everything part of you will think it’s a real thing, and you will find yourself more relaxed.
24 00:02:56.550 –> 00:03:04.770 kathygruver: more productive more ready to move on to the next next task, which is a great thing because, like you said day so right now I mean i’ve not been on a plane in a year.
25 00:03:05.310 –> 00:03:13.560 kathygruver: I am losing my mind my boyfriend have found ways to do little day trips we didn’t San Diego for a couple days we did a camping trip, we did cambria for a couple days.
26 00:03:13.890 –> 00:03:23.280 kathygruver: But it’s not the same as like getting on a plane and getting away to some location, that is really going to take you out of yourself, so we can do it in our minds.
27 00:03:24.810 –> 00:03:33.990 Jason Mefford: Well, in some of the ways that we could do it in our minds right, I mean there are, for example, some guided meditations some relaxation.
28 00:03:34.710 –> 00:03:40.020 Jason Mefford: You know hypnosis sessions other things like that that actually kind of walk you through that right so.
29 00:03:40.980 –> 00:03:51.570 Jason Mefford: So the one way is you know you just got to kind of settle yourself down there’s different ways to get there right but, but again if we’re relaxed, you know daydreaming is not a bad thing.
31 00:03:54.300 –> 00:03:59.820 Jason Mefford: and especially the more senses, that you can bring into it right.
32 00:04:00.930 –> 00:04:04.560 Jason Mefford: The more that you’re actually going to be able to experience it.
33 00:04:04.860 –> 00:04:20.130 Jason Mefford: yeah I know I know I know for some people, you know you can close your eyes, being in you know, in a hypnotic trance or be very, very relaxed you close your eyes, you actually like vividly see things when I close my eyes, I see black.
34 00:04:21.210 –> 00:04:23.580 Jason Mefford: Right and so, for me, it’s a little.
35 00:04:24.810 –> 00:04:38.400 Jason Mefford: it’s a little different right but, but again I can sense things happening, even if I physically can’t see it, I can sense smelling something.
36 00:04:39.180 –> 00:05:00.840 Jason Mefford: Or, I can sense myself kind of moving you know, like if i’m walking down stairs or climbing up a mountain, you can kind of feel yourself doing it right, and so that, so the more that you actually do that, the more real it becomes to your subconscious mind.
37 00:05:01.530 –> 00:05:10.650 kathygruver: Absolutely absolutely and to your point about not being able to see something I have worked with hypnosis clients who cannot see what i’m describing.
38 00:05:11.010 –> 00:05:14.010 kathygruver: But they still get it, they can experience that, in their body.
39 00:05:14.520 –> 00:05:21.960 kathygruver: Just because you can’t visualize a lemon doesn’t mean you don’t understand the concept of a lemon you don’t have to Google when lemon looks like every time you go to the grocery store.
40 00:05:22.170 –> 00:05:29.220 kathygruver: You recognize there’s a part of your brain that goes to lemon that’s a dog that’s a stapler you know you don’t have to like a little thing to look that up and get a picture.
41 00:05:29.880 –> 00:05:38.310 kathygruver: So yeah I mean so often what i’ll say is visualize imagine picture or pretend, and just as an example, so let’s say your thing as the beach.
42 00:05:39.030 –> 00:05:43.830 kathygruver: If you want to go to the beach, you know you close your eyes and you can feel yourself sitting in that chaise lounge.
43 00:05:44.130 –> 00:05:51.960 kathygruver: And dig your toes in the sand past that warm sand and that sort of wet cool sand under there with all your toes you can feel all those little grains of sand.
44 00:05:52.380 –> 00:06:01.080 kathygruver: And you put your hand over the edge and you’re trailing your your hand and that sand and you feel the warmth and you feel the shells we feel all that sensation that texture.
45 00:06:01.410 –> 00:06:10.560 kathygruver: And you could feel the warmth from the sun, on your face is cool breeze walks by rules you just a little bit, and you can smell from down the beach that that.
46 00:06:12.540 –> 00:06:21.300 kathygruver: suntan oil smell that coconut oil, and you can take that inhale and smell that salty air from the ocean and that little spray that gets on your face.
47 00:06:21.750 –> 00:06:29.940 kathygruver: A little bit of salt on your lips, and you hear the ocean laughing on the on the beach, and you hear the goals ahead, and you can hear that breezes it goes by it.
48 00:06:30.300 –> 00:06:36.600 kathygruver: You know, the more you think that kind of thing you’re by thinks you’re on vacation like just that couple seconds of just doing that.
49 00:06:37.740 –> 00:06:39.630 kathygruver: Much more realized like I wouldn’t say they’re.
50 00:06:40.290 –> 00:06:42.210 Jason Mefford: Like I could taste the salt and.
51 00:06:42.420 –> 00:06:46.560 Jason Mefford: yeah you can feel you can feel the heat because that’s The thing is, even if you can’t.
52 00:06:47.070 –> 00:06:55.080 Jason Mefford: You know visually see it as your eyes are closed you your body still is sensing that those things are happening.
53 00:06:55.710 –> 00:07:01.050 Jason Mefford: And, and what Cathy just went through right there exactly you can go through, and you can do that yourself right.
54 00:07:01.440 –> 00:07:10.620 Jason Mefford: Now if if you just stop if you’re so analytical and you and you don’t start getting into the details and it’s not going to get you very far right i’m at the beach sitting in a chair.
55 00:07:11.640 –> 00:07:12.900 Jason Mefford: And if you just stop there.
56 00:07:14.610 –> 00:07:22.860 Jason Mefford: K you’re you’re at the beach what’s the beach like what color is the sand, is it warm is it cold right because there’s.
57 00:07:23.460 –> 00:07:44.400 Jason Mefford: But, but the more that you get into the details and again, you could tell the way you were talking, you were bringing in the different senses you feel the sun, on your face as you put your hand into the sand or your toes you feel the warm sand at the you know at the top, but as you.
58 00:07:44.400 –> 00:07:46.470 Jason Mefford: Stick your toes down in you get the.
59 00:07:46.470 –> 00:07:48.840 Jason Mefford: cool wet sand on the bottom right.
60 00:07:49.290 –> 00:07:54.840 Jason Mefford: If you’ve ever been to the beach you, you have experienced that right.
61 00:07:55.470 –> 00:08:05.670 Jason Mefford: And so just thinking about it in that detail takes your mind back to one of those previous experiences and if you are there.
62 00:08:06.150 –> 00:08:19.200 Jason Mefford: Again yeah let’s go again for five minutes 10 minutes half an hour whatever you can do it just gets you back to that place of how you can actually effectively go on a vacation in your mind.
63 00:08:19.290 –> 00:08:20.850 Jason Mefford: Absolutely whenever you choose to.
64 00:08:21.180 –> 00:08:31.260 kathygruver: yeah I customize it for you, if the beach isn’t your thing don’t go to the beach, you know I had a woman who she does stand up paddleboarding she loves to do it on rivers and lakes and things like that.
65 00:08:31.560 –> 00:08:37.320 kathygruver: And so I took her on this paddleboarding trip through this sort of mountain the past almost like.
66 00:08:37.710 –> 00:08:45.420 kathygruver: You know, with some little mountains river kind of running through very calmly, though, but she can see the you know the sheer cliffs on either side and.
67 00:08:45.720 –> 00:08:56.010 kathygruver: You know the feeling of the paddle hit in the water are doing that stroke and then changing and the feeling of the wood paddle in her hand and what it felt like on her feet as the water kind of went up over the board and.
68 00:08:56.460 –> 00:08:59.220 kathygruver: You know that’s The great thing about being able to customize these.
69 00:08:59.880 –> 00:09:12.840 kathygruver: When I do these in groups it’s harder because i’m just doing sort of blanket stuff and you know, maybe your beach looks different than my beach maybe it’s rocky black sand because you’re at this volcanic sand in the in Hawaii.
70 00:09:13.110 –> 00:09:16.560 kathygruver: So you know we’ll say something like you know see those things that you’re seeing.
71 00:09:16.950 –> 00:09:24.870 kathygruver: Because you know I don’t know what you’re saying you know, or if I take people through the woods and i’m like you know you feel the Chris please crunch, under your feet well, maybe for you, it was spring.
72 00:09:25.260 –> 00:09:30.420 kathygruver: And it’s misty and raining the warm smile on your face and maybe it’s a cloudy day you know so.
73 00:09:30.660 –> 00:09:38.820 kathygruver: The customizing it to you is so important, this is why I love doing these audios for people because we’ll talk about it, ahead of time and then i’ll create the perfect one, for you.
74 00:09:39.210 –> 00:09:45.060 kathygruver: This is something you you don’t need guided for you could absolutely do this yourself, and it will just take you away for a while yeah.
75 00:09:46.170 –> 00:09:56.790 Jason Mefford: yeah so that’s that I mean that is a great thing and again is as i’ve seen people kind of get stressed out, I mean I was talking to somebody last week, and she said, you know i’m an introvert I don’t mind being in my little house by myself.
76 00:09:57.390 –> 00:10:10.620 Jason Mefford: But after 11 months, you know it’s like for me it’s even a lot right, and so I know that so many of us are kind of feeling that way so so that’s it that’s a great thing you can do.
77 00:10:11.100 –> 00:10:23.310 Jason Mefford: Another thing you know that I was going to bring up to is you know give that a try, because it does work and it’s great, but if if if you’re if you’re not quite sure if you want to do that another thing that you can do.
78 00:10:23.820 –> 00:10:41.850 Jason Mefford: as well is watch TV or movies that put you in either that emotional state right So if you want to feel happy lovey, then you know romantic comedy might be a good thing to do to get you in that emotional state.
79 00:10:42.420 –> 00:10:52.110 Jason Mefford: But one of the things that we’ve done, you know as well is like I said, my wife and I we haven’t really traveled usually we’d go, you know, two or three times a year some place.
80 00:10:52.590 –> 00:11:09.720 Jason Mefford: we’d usually go back to Australia, because that’s from my wife is from you know once once every year year and a half, something like that, two years and we didn’t get to go back so you know watching she’s actually watching this show right now it’s like Australian outback truckers.
81 00:11:11.580 –> 00:11:16.350 Jason Mefford: Which is like it’s kind of an odd thing but it’s actually a pretty cool show i’ve sat down and watched it a.
82 00:11:16.350 –> 00:11:29.610 Jason Mefford: Little but why does she watched that because she’s seeing the scenery right of back home in Australia she’s hearing the the dialect right the the.
83 00:11:30.150 –> 00:11:35.700 Jason Mefford: The different ozzy accent, you know and a lot of the truckers sound a lot like one of her brothers, which is.
84 00:11:36.330 –> 00:11:46.050 Jason Mefford: You know fun too so so watching that show puts her in that state, you know where the same thing, where I like I like watching some documentaries.
85 00:11:46.380 –> 00:11:55.380 Jason Mefford: About you know different places and all where is that place and seeing the scenery there and then kind of imagining yourself.
86 00:11:56.250 –> 00:12:17.400 Jason Mefford: In that place right so again, we can pretend, and this is probably why you know books movies, are so great, because you get to escape the reality around you and get to pretend for a little while that you’re the other person.
87 00:12:17.550 –> 00:12:22.050 Jason Mefford: In the story and it’s perfectly cool it’s okay to do that, right now.
88 00:12:22.470 –> 00:12:38.730 Jason Mefford: If you’re escaping you know 23 hours a day, doing that then it’s probably a problem, but you know, take a little bit of time to actually do that whether it’s five minutes half an hour two hours you know watching a movie.
89 00:12:39.090 –> 00:12:52.710 Jason Mefford: yeah actually help again substitute for you the fact that you’re not physically able to be there, but you’re still able to sense it and go there in your mind as well.
90 00:12:53.310 –> 00:12:59.700 kathygruver: yeah and once a week I played dungeons and dragons which is this amazing escape because I got to create this character.
91 00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:04.770 kathygruver: That can do all this magic and all this anything you know and for a couple hours a week, a week.
92 00:13:05.130 –> 00:13:11.310 kathygruver: i’m thrust into this incredible world with a great storyteller and I get to have this whole other experience it takes me away from.
93 00:13:11.670 –> 00:13:19.560 kathygruver: Well i’m going to do this linkedin thing and I got I have clients that you know it’s it’s that that that healthy vacation you know cuz the smoking crack is getting expensive.
94 00:13:21.780 –> 00:13:22.500 Jason Mefford: yep.
95 00:13:23.730 –> 00:13:30.870 Jason Mefford: yeah so take a vacation in mind, we thought that would be helpful because again like I said i’ve i’ve seen people.
96 00:13:31.410 –> 00:13:41.910 Jason Mefford: Really stressed out freaking out when is this ever going to end Well let it end in your mind a little bit today right just go somewhere else today for a few minutes and.
97 00:13:42.810 –> 00:14:00.750 Jason Mefford: Even if physically can’t be there are bodies still senses it and, again, as you were listening to this is Kathy started, you know walking through our experience at the beach i’m sure all of you felt yourself get more calm you felt yourself there, even if just for a few minutes.
98 00:14:02.130 –> 00:14:04.380 Jason Mefford: How much of a difference, I can actually make in our lives.
99 00:14:05.730 –> 00:14:15.540 kathygruver: it’s all in your control it’s all in your power you just to make the choice to do it so go forth take a vacation i’m Kathy Griffin I could reach to Kathy gruber.com.
100 00:14:15.870 –> 00:14:23.730 Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason effort, I can be reached at Jason method calm and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast see yeah.
Where does Internal Audit report? How does this affect your independence and how can you use this to be able to lead an effective internal audit group? Getting a seat at the table is built upon what value you bring to the organization as well as what perceived future value you will bring as well. Professional relationships are going to be one way that we can raise awareness to the value that we provide, and these relationships may go beyond our direct report.
In today’s episode we meet again with Hal Garyn to discuss how to develop professional relationships to help further your career.
Transcript
1 00:00:01.469 –> 00:00:11.519 Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of jamming with Jason and today we’re going to tackle the age old question of where internal audit should report.
2 00:00:11.940 –> 00:00:23.520 Jason Mefford: right because there’s a lot of people going back and forth on oh you’ve got to report to the CEO Oh, you need to report, at least to the CFO a How does this all come together kind of in in your independence.
3 00:00:23.940 –> 00:00:35.280 Jason Mefford: And how you can actually have an effective value added internal audit group and so stay tuned because we’re going to talk and we’re going to actually answer that question.
4 00:00:35.640 –> 00:00:48.240 Jason Mefford: and give you some practical tips we guard lists of who you may report to on what you can do to improve your effectiveness in your organization so let’s get to the episode.
5 00:00:51.060 –> 00:00:53.370 Jason Mefford: All right, how I got you back again I keep rolling.
6 00:00:53.370 –> 00:00:54.570 Jason Mefford: back into these.
7 00:00:55.740 –> 00:00:59.040 Jason Mefford: I know I love doing this and it sounds like you do have a ball.
8 00:00:59.340 –> 00:01:02.460 Jason Mefford: Okay, so so let’s let’s talk about.
9 00:01:03.960 –> 00:01:12.570 Jason Mefford: The independence and the reporting relationship, a little bit because this tends to be one where.
10 00:01:13.470 –> 00:01:22.170 Jason Mefford: there’s you know there’s the aspiration of what kind of the standards or the profession is saying should happen.
11 00:01:22.920 –> 00:01:36.090 Jason Mefford: But the reality is, I think, less than five or 10% of the groups can actually achieve that aspiration right and so maybe let’s kind of talk about the aspiration.
12 00:01:36.690 –> 00:01:54.900 Jason Mefford: Practically where most people actually are and ways that, regardless of who you physically report to administratively are functionally how you can add more value to your organization, by focusing on a couple of different ways to develop relationships with key people.
13 00:01:55.980 –> 00:01:56.430 Hal Garyn: Excellent.
14 00:01:58.380 –> 00:01:59.550 Jason Mefford: So where should we jump first.
15 00:01:59.760 –> 00:02:08.460 Hal Garyn: Well, I mean let’s let’s start with you know what people would like to see happen, it is certainly advocate and okay.
16 00:02:08.940 –> 00:02:21.810 Hal Garyn: Ideally, ideally, you know for stature enhancing the ability for independence for enhancing the opportunities for objectivity and all that stuff.
17 00:02:22.710 –> 00:02:32.550 Hal Garyn: Ideally, the chief audit executive reports functionally to the audit committee, and has a strong relationship with the Chair of the audit committee.
18 00:02:33.120 –> 00:02:44.190 Hal Garyn: and administratively to the senior most executive in the organization, the CEO because that minimizes your you’re.
19 00:02:45.060 –> 00:02:56.610 Hal Garyn: The the likelihood that someone is you’re going to be auditing areas directly that someone is responsible for yes, the CEOs responsible for the entire organization.
20 00:02:57.390 –> 00:03:20.790 Hal Garyn: But they may not direct or preclude or influence you in certain areas over others because of their area of specific responsibility So yes, ideally report functionally to the chair of the audit the audit committee chair of the audit committee report administratively this CEO.
21 00:03:22.410 –> 00:03:25.860 Hal Garyn: And most surveys indicate that isn’t exactly what happens.
22 00:03:26.790 –> 00:03:28.980 Hal Garyn: No it’s not you know and.
23 00:03:29.190 –> 00:03:41.370 Hal Garyn: So it isn’t up to you, as the CA you might be able to influence it, you know, but it isn’t up to you the organization is going to decide where you report.
24 00:03:41.790 –> 00:03:50.850 Hal Garyn: Now if you’re not reporting functionally to the audit committee that’s problem, but I don’t think that’s what we want to talk about Now this is where you administratively report.
25 00:03:51.720 –> 00:04:08.100 Hal Garyn: And Okay, so your report to the CFO you report to the car oh you report to the clo the chief legal officer or the equivalent or wherever you know okay now make the best of it.
26 00:04:10.170 –> 00:04:23.430 Hal Garyn: You know, managed through what you need to do to ensure that you’re maintaining your forget about independence for a minute your objectivity as best as you can.
27 00:04:25.020 –> 00:04:32.280 Hal Garyn: Are you deciding where you think audit needs to spend its time or someone deciding it for you.
28 00:04:34.470 –> 00:04:47.580 Hal Garyn: And if you have control as much as you can have control in an organization, you have control over deciding where you’re going to spend your time then don’t worry about don’t worry about when you get over it.
29 00:04:50.280 –> 00:05:06.930 Hal Garyn: And look at the organization and say okay now where are the relationships, the most important to ensure my success and not fixate on where you report.
30 00:05:09.990 –> 00:05:20.610 Jason Mefford: yeah I think I think this is important and it’s you know because again like you said most most of the surveys say you know it could be the the you know head of finance head of legal.
31 00:05:22.380 –> 00:05:35.100 Jason Mefford: You know even sometimes further down to like a controller risk officer, whoever it happens to be right, and I think, as you and I have talked about this before, because because we both served as chief executives.
32 00:05:35.550 –> 00:05:46.620 Jason Mefford: I know I administrative Lee reported to a lot of different titled positions but also different people in those same titled positions right.
33 00:05:46.650 –> 00:05:58.710 Jason Mefford: Right and and it’s not so much about hey the CEO is going to be the best quote unquote practice person to report to.
34 00:05:59.220 –> 00:06:14.100 Jason Mefford: it’s not necessarily the title but it’s a lot to about the person themselves right and and I think kind of that point that you brought up of yeah even though we’d like to kind of control, but are you are you having.
35 00:06:15.270 –> 00:06:23.130 Jason Mefford: You know, are you taking input or you’re in and choosing where you’re going or you’re being told you can only.
36 00:06:23.640 –> 00:06:41.820 Jason Mefford: Go certain places right because that’s again it doesn’t matter who you report to if the CEO is telling you well, you can only look at these three areas and that’s it then again it’s the person not necessarily the position I think to write that matters.
37 00:06:42.450 –> 00:06:45.000 Hal Garyn: it’s the function of the individuals in the role.
38 00:06:45.570 –> 00:06:51.150 Hal Garyn: Where you were you were the people you report to and yourself.
39 00:06:52.500 –> 00:07:05.070 Hal Garyn: And is much more important how the individuals approach the roles and their interactions with each other, then the titles, that the people have.
40 00:07:05.910 –> 00:07:31.560 Hal Garyn: You know the salt, the the the person who is running internal audit who’s called the director of internal audit, but really wants to Title chief audit executive and they report to the vpn Controller and they really want to report to the CEO well the organization decided what you called.
41 00:07:32.160 –> 00:07:34.530 Hal Garyn: And the organization decided where you’re going to report.
42 00:07:34.980 –> 00:07:37.680 Hal Garyn: So move on.
43 00:07:38.850 –> 00:07:50.370 Hal Garyn: If that if you’re not going to be able to influence change there and work with the individuals that you’re working with and make it work.
44 00:07:51.300 –> 00:08:08.430 Hal Garyn: But it comes back to looking at the organization and deciding where are the relationships, not the reporting lines where are the relationships, the most important to maximize my success in the organization.
45 00:08:09.510 –> 00:08:10.800 Hal Garyn: And what am I gonna do about that.
46 00:08:11.760 –> 00:08:15.810 Jason Mefford: Well, I think I think that’s, the key point right because, like you said it doesn’t matter.
47 00:08:16.200 –> 00:08:23.100 Jason Mefford: I mean obviously you want a good relationship with the person that you administratively report to whoever That is right, so you’ve got to.
48 00:08:23.550 –> 00:08:33.570 Jason Mefford: you’ve got to develop that relationship, but what are the other key relationships in the organization, where you need to focus on, and you know, one of the.
49 00:08:34.860 –> 00:08:40.020 Jason Mefford: One of the experiences I had one of the companies that I worked with the.
50 00:08:42.090 –> 00:08:52.620 Jason Mefford: There was going to be a new CEO in the future right the CEO was going to retire within a couple years, and so there were certain people in the organization, who are kind of.
51 00:08:53.250 –> 00:09:07.200 Jason Mefford: thought of as potential replacements right This tends to happen, most of the time right there’s there’s a 234 executives that could take over that role you just don’t know who it is right.
52 00:09:07.860 –> 00:09:25.680 Jason Mefford: Well, a few years out I could tell who it was going to be now how did I know because I saw the person who was establishing the relationships with the board members and the owners of the company.
53 00:09:26.520 –> 00:09:42.930 Jason Mefford: And so, as an example right I would show up to a charity event right and guess who’s sitting next to you know that the the Chair of the Board well it’s this President within the company right yeah.
54 00:09:43.980 –> 00:09:52.200 Jason Mefford: Who was you know I remember, I think I was in the airport one time and and I saw this person walking with another board member.
55 00:09:52.680 –> 00:10:03.780 Jason Mefford: Right, so that person understood the importance of relationship building had establish those relationships, over a period of time he didn’t report.
56 00:10:04.290 –> 00:10:12.090 Jason Mefford: To those people, yes, he would give he would give you know his report to the board on what his operating division was doing.
57 00:10:12.480 –> 00:10:19.170 Jason Mefford: what he was doing more than just showing up and giving the report he was developing deeper relationship with those board members.
58 00:10:19.560 –> 00:10:27.090 Jason Mefford: Not a surprise when he took over a CEO right because, like I said I could see it coming I knew some other people that wanted it.
59 00:10:27.690 –> 00:10:34.500 Jason Mefford: But I knew they weren’t going to get it because I saw what this what this other person was doing right so So what are some ways that we can.
60 00:10:35.250 –> 00:10:53.580 Jason Mefford: Maybe learn from that or operationalize that then in our organization, who might be some of these these people that that we, as you know, there is the chief executive would be wanting to develop a better or deeper relationship with as well in the organization.
61 00:10:55.020 –> 00:10:59.520 Hal Garyn: Well, internal audit proverbial always wants the seat at the table.
62 00:11:00.780 –> 00:11:10.080 Hal Garyn: Right and if you don’t get the seat at the table by virtue of your title you don’t get the seat at the table by virtue of.
63 00:11:11.340 –> 00:11:24.180 Hal Garyn: What you’re going to do you get the seat of the table by what you have done, and you get the seat at the table, based on what value is perceived you’re going to be able to add.
64 00:11:25.020 –> 00:11:38.310 Hal Garyn: And that and who, where does it start, if you want to get that seat at the table and manage the perceptions, to ensure that you not only get it to get to keep and that’s the CEO.
65 00:11:40.050 –> 00:11:50.040 Hal Garyn: starts and ends there they set the tone if you’re showing up to meetings as a CEO and the CEO says what are they doing here.
66 00:11:51.960 –> 00:12:13.890 Hal Garyn: You know who invited them well you didn’t develop the relationship with the CEO that you needed to so It all starts and ends with the CEO So if you administratively report somewhere else in the organization you gotta develop that relationship with the CEO first and foremost.
67 00:12:15.780 –> 00:12:17.910 Hal Garyn: i’ll tell you i’ll tell you a story here.
68 00:12:18.930 –> 00:12:24.990 Hal Garyn: I was new CEO in an organization and I reported administratively to the CFO.
69 00:12:26.400 –> 00:12:38.070 Hal Garyn: And I quickly surmise that if i’m going to get anywhere in this organization and do what I know I need to do, I the CEO hold the keys to the kingdom.
70 00:12:38.820 –> 00:12:50.280 Hal Garyn: In terms of whatever they perceived of me and the role, I had in the organization, the rest of the organization would follow so as a new guy.
71 00:12:50.730 –> 00:12:59.520 Hal Garyn: I didn’t want to get anybody upset after I had come to that conclusion which probably is true in many organizations and most organizations, if not all.
72 00:13:00.270 –> 00:13:15.000 Hal Garyn: So I told my administrative boss, because I didn’t want to get his nose out of joint you know I told him I wanted I I believe I need to develop a stronger relationship with the CEO that I currently have.
73 00:13:18.180 –> 00:13:28.380 Hal Garyn: I here’s what I would like to do and how i’d like to go about it, are you okay with that and if they started doing all of this pushback stuff.
74 00:13:29.130 –> 00:13:39.090 Hal Garyn: I knew I was going to be in trouble, I was the new CEO their new organization and they embraced it okay good happy.
75 00:13:39.600 –> 00:13:53.220 Hal Garyn: So, then, I didn’t want to get them upset either So the first couple of meetings I set up with the CEO to develop the relationship and spend some chat time whether the CEO I went to the CFO and I said here’s what i’m going to talk to them about.
76 00:13:55.020 –> 00:14:06.360 Hal Garyn: And then, when the meeting was over, I traced back to the CFO his office and I said here’s what we discussed and after we did that twice, he said we stopped doing that I don’t care.
77 00:14:07.020 –> 00:14:15.600 Hal Garyn: Unless there’s something that’s gonna affect me or you think is gonna affect the organization just do it, and I was like Oh, thank God.
78 00:14:16.290 –> 00:14:27.480 Jason Mefford: yeah but see how the way you did that that that was perfect right because, again, a lot of times a CFO like that will have some miss.
79 00:14:28.800 –> 00:14:34.890 Jason Mefford: Some apprehensions about oh my gosh what are you going to be talking about to the CEO that i’m not going to know about right.
80 00:14:35.130 –> 00:14:41.760 Jason Mefford: Are you going to tell them what a bad person I am are you going to try to you know start reporting to them instead or you’re going to throw me under the bus right.
81 00:14:42.240 –> 00:14:52.440 Jason Mefford: A lot of times, people have those those apprehensions, and so the fact that you told the CFO before you told him afterwards right.
82 00:14:53.100 –> 00:14:57.270 Jason Mefford: And so you were being completely transparent not trying to hide anything.
83 00:14:57.780 –> 00:15:06.180 Jason Mefford: But then having the CFO say how quick coming back you don’t have to come back right now it’s their choice in you’ve.
84 00:15:06.570 –> 00:15:19.050 Jason Mefford: You started to establish a relationship with the CEO while also not pissing off your CFO right, so the way in which you did that was was awesome right, I mean, as far as so.
85 00:15:19.440 –> 00:15:35.550 Jason Mefford: If people are trying to do this, learn from that story that how how just had there, because if you don’t then that administrative reporter might think you’re trying to and around them, and nobody likes to be around it to the boss that will get you fired quick.
86 00:15:36.720 –> 00:15:37.320 Hal Garyn: and
87 00:15:39.600 –> 00:15:43.380 Hal Garyn: Your administrative boss, and the organization.
88 00:15:44.850 –> 00:15:51.840 Hal Garyn: almost always will have a stronger relationship with the board members than you do.
89 00:15:54.360 –> 00:15:59.190 Hal Garyn: They will able be able to wield influence and so.
90 00:16:00.420 –> 00:16:05.850 Hal Garyn: You got to manage that relationship carefully, because if you go sideways with them.
91 00:16:06.930 –> 00:16:13.200 Hal Garyn: And they want you out of the organization, they want to move you aside.
92 00:16:14.280 –> 00:16:30.900 Hal Garyn: They are going to start managing the Board and the audit committee in such a way, regardless of what it says on paper as to who can theoretically hire fire decide your compensation, we all know how it really works.
93 00:16:32.550 –> 00:16:43.530 Hal Garyn: And so it was that in that story that I told, which is a true story is that the way I wanted to do it no it wasn’t the way I wanted to do it.
94 00:16:44.460 –> 00:16:59.910 Hal Garyn: It was the way I learned to do it by seeing how others were successful managing the people in politics of the organization, it was keeping my eye on what I wanted to accomplish.
95 00:17:01.560 –> 00:17:16.800 Hal Garyn: Focusing on, as I told someone recently, you know be relentless about what you want to achieve not be relentless about the way about how to get it done.
96 00:17:17.400 –> 00:17:22.530 Hal Garyn: Be relentless and achieving the result, the result they wanted was the relationship with the CEO.
97 00:17:24.480 –> 00:17:32.250 Hal Garyn: And if I had to go about doing it differently than the way I wanted to to get to the goal Fine, let it be that way.
98 00:17:34.140 –> 00:17:36.990 Hal Garyn: And so you know, at the end of the day.
99 00:17:38.280 –> 00:17:48.090 Hal Garyn: evaluate where whoever you administratively and functionally report to is the relationship with the CEO where you want it to be.
100 00:17:49.350 –> 00:17:53.430 Hal Garyn: If not, why not, and what are you going to do about because.
101 00:17:54.450 –> 00:18:16.440 Hal Garyn: If you as the CEO at and your staff want those seats at the table, want to be involved in the organization that that all starts and ends with the tone that gets set from the top it all starts and ends with the CEO It all starts and ends with how the seat what the CEO perceives of you.
102 00:18:18.570 –> 00:18:27.240 Jason Mefford: yeah because if you, you know again that little analogy right if if you want the seat at the table that’s an analogy people talk about all the time right.
103 00:18:27.390 –> 00:18:39.000 Jason Mefford: right then look at who decides, because I usually refer to it as like the big kid that you know the adult table and the little kids table right because I grew up in a big family so every time that we had.
104 00:18:39.540 –> 00:18:44.220 Jason Mefford: You know, big family dinner, there was the kids table, and then there was the adult table right.
105 00:18:44.970 –> 00:18:53.790 Jason Mefford: Well, you know you always wanted to sit at the adult table, but so if you want to sit at the adult table who decides who said that the adult table.
106 00:18:54.330 –> 00:19:03.150 Jason Mefford: it’s usually the CEO right, and I think like you said before right, if you want that seat at the table it’s based on what you’ve done before, but also.
107 00:19:03.600 –> 00:19:16.260 Jason Mefford: The value you’re going to provide now, why do we not let the little kids sit at the adult table, because the adults, want to talk about adult things right, and if there’s kids at the table.
108 00:19:16.650 –> 00:19:24.870 Jason Mefford: Then you’re not going to talk about those adult things right i’m not talking about adult things but maybe it is adult things depending on your family but.
109 00:19:25.560 –> 00:19:35.580 Jason Mefford: But you know so it’s the same thing right is that you have to be able to contribute to the conversation going on at the table.
110 00:19:36.030 –> 00:19:50.040 Jason Mefford: And if you haven’t developed relationship with some of those people that are already sitting there that are already saying hey you know what I want how here because I value what he’s talking about so next time we have one of these let’s invite him, please right.
111 00:19:50.100 –> 00:20:01.470 Jason Mefford: Right that’s that’s kind of where and why this relationship building is so important because you’re never going to get there, if you don’t have relationships with the people that are at the table.
112 00:20:02.010 –> 00:20:05.040 Hal Garyn: yep and and taking your your your.
113 00:20:06.240 –> 00:20:08.580 Hal Garyn: analogy there just a step further.
114 00:20:11.400 –> 00:20:19.170 Hal Garyn: When you’re when you’re developing the relationship with the CEO are you going there and talking about you want to talk about.
115 00:20:19.230 –> 00:20:22.140 Hal Garyn: Are you going there and talking about what they want to talk about.
116 00:20:22.560 –> 00:20:28.080 Hal Garyn: Are you having the kid conversation or the adult conversation I don’t mean to be that you know.
117 00:20:28.770 –> 00:20:46.350 Hal Garyn: The CEO is gonna is not going to give you the time of day and there’s not going to look forward to your meeting and maybe even you’ll start finding those meetings get canceled rescheduled or whatever unless you’re going and talking about what they want to talk about.
118 00:20:47.970 –> 00:21:05.610 Hal Garyn: how you can spin that to your take on the subject and add value and add insight, but you can’t go in there with the list of things you want to talk about, because that will not develop a relationship develop a transaction.
119 00:21:07.500 –> 00:21:09.600 Jason Mefford: Well, we don’t have time to hit on it today, but.
120 00:21:09.600 –> 00:21:14.760 Jason Mefford: that’s relevant relevance, you know that we’ve talked about so many times before.
121 00:21:15.060 –> 00:21:17.700 Jason Mefford: yeah but yeah I think you know again it’s.
122 00:21:18.720 –> 00:21:28.410 Jason Mefford: You know I think we’ve given people some good good things today, you know just so just to kind of wrap up a little summary right don’t don’t get too bent out of shape on who you report to.
123 00:21:29.010 –> 00:21:36.570 Jason Mefford: don’t necessarily try to force changing that because you don’t have any control over it right.
124 00:21:36.960 –> 00:21:49.350 Jason Mefford: But what you can control is the relationship that you have both with your administrative reporting, you know executive that you’re reporting to, and also to some of these other key executives.
125 00:21:49.770 –> 00:22:01.770 Jason Mefford: Obviously CEO being a big one that you want to try to develop but there might be others as well too right because you know, like you said how if you if you want to get invited to the to the table.
126 00:22:02.520 –> 00:22:09.060 Jason Mefford: You got to be talking about what people at the table are talking about and you’ve got to develop the relationships with people.
127 00:22:09.570 –> 00:22:27.210 Jason Mefford: That want you there right that you are adding to the con to the conversation, and they actually want you there if people are requesting that you’re at the table you’re going to come to the table, but if you’re over there saying come on dad let me stay at the big table.
128 00:22:28.590 –> 00:22:31.530 Jason Mefford: it’s gonna be like no grow up right, you know.
129 00:22:33.270 –> 00:22:37.140 Jason Mefford: So anyway good good good stuff good stuff any any final things.
130 00:22:37.350 –> 00:22:46.230 Hal Garyn: yeah the, and so the only thing i’d add to that is there is actually a relationship that’s even more important than really building a relationship with the CEO.
131 00:22:47.250 –> 00:22:52.740 Hal Garyn: And that’s building a relationship with the CEOs in the admin support person.
132 00:22:53.250 –> 00:22:54.120 Jason Mefford: Oh yeah.
133 00:22:54.180 –> 00:22:55.440 Hal Garyn: yeahs to the kingdom.
134 00:22:56.460 –> 00:22:57.990 Hal Garyn: They can tell you.
135 00:22:59.250 –> 00:23:06.510 Hal Garyn: They can get you access, they can block you access, they can get you moved up the list, they can stop you from moving anywhere.
136 00:23:07.470 –> 00:23:31.410 Hal Garyn: They can tell you what’s on their mind, they can warn you as you’re walking in the door for the conversation it’s been a really bad day here for and all that stuff so not only developed a relationship with the CEO but the bonus here is developed a relationship with their ad.
137 00:23:32.370 –> 00:23:48.660 Jason Mefford: Oh yeah no and that’s that’s a great point thanks for bringing that up because again it’s you know, when I look back at the the two companies, where I was CA yeah it was the relationships with with those you know executive assistants that made all the difference right.
138 00:23:49.980 –> 00:23:54.450 Jason Mefford: So yeah make sure and take time to do that as well alright well thanks how.
139 00:23:54.720 –> 00:23:56.550 Hal Garyn: yeah it’s fun.
