In todays Fire and Earth episode we have Mike Mandel on the show to talk about graphology!

Between “literary Ds”, Capital Is, “lower loops” and much more, the way we write can tell a lot about us.

Not only can analyzing your writing reveal aspects of yourself, but you can also change your very own habits and characteristics by consciously deciding to change the way we write.

If you found this topic interesting, Fire & Earth podcast listeners can save $100 on Mike’s “Graphology: Online Edition” course. This is Mike Mandel’s weekend Graphology course turned into an incredibly high quality online course. Approximately 7.5 hours of HD video including examples and plenty of Q&A.

https://mikemandelhypnosis.com/graphology/

Use coupon code: fireandearth to save $100.

Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason Medford

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Kathy Gruver: And I’m Kathy gruver and I’m so excited to have one of our favorite guests back a really good friend of mine and incredible hypnotherapist The Wizard of

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Kathy Gruver: Graph ology which is handwriting analysis, which is what we’re going to talk about today. It’s such a cool thing. I’m so excited. And I brought a sample for Mike to look at. So we’re, we’re so excited to welcome back and like Mandela to the show.

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Mike Mandel: I am thrilled to be here. This is the third time I’ve

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Mike Mandel: Been on your podcast and we had an absolute blast last time. In fact, I love the way your podcast is video because

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Mike Mandel: You know we do ours on the cheap hours just audio. Although Chris has got us moving to video in the new year. We just got a whole bunch of new backdrop and everything for as you can see here

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Jason Mefford: you’ve invested significantly in a new building. Yeah.

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Mike Mandel: Small cathedral built

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Mike Mandel: But yeah graph ology is is something that fascinates me and I’ll see this right up front that the handwriting never lies. It never frickin lies and

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Mike Mandel: It’s one of the hardest things to get through your head when you start to study this scientifically, but it will prove itself again and again and again and the times I’ve forgotten that it never lies are the times that I’ve made mistakes and suffered as a result.

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, we’ll get there. So we’re going to start

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Kathy Gruver: Small and it’s just to that point. I’ve had people say bullshit. No, doesn’t mean anything. And I said, But wait, didn’t we all learn the exact same letters, the exact same way.

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Kathy Gruver: And they go, Oh, yeah. And I said, so why don’t we all look like that in the book. When we learned to do because my handwriting is atrocious.

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Kathy Gruver: It is a horrible and I’ve

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Kathy Gruver: I’ve done some graph ology with it and I’ve had other people do it. It’s like, it’s totally, absolutely.

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Kathy Gruver: So,

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Kathy Gruver: I don’t tell us kind of like where this came from. I know you did some stuff with forensic graph ology and then I’ll show you can tell us some of the

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Kathy Gruver: Common things to look for and

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Kathy Gruver: Then I’ll show you the simple if you can tell me

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Mike Mandel: Well graph ology has an interesting history to it and I came to it in about 1992

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Mike Mandel: Interestingly, I knew nothing about it. I thought it was. Whoo, just nuts and stupid. I didn’t know it is a small subset in a soft science already which is psychology

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Mike Mandel: I didn’t know then that it’s based on large numbers like any science thousands upon thousands of samples in fact Heidelberg, Germany.

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Mike Mandel: Paris, France Sorbonne, you can get a degree in this in some places in Europe, and it’s mainstream in Europe for hiring and firing still to this day.

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Mike Mandel: So what I mean by. It’s done by large numbers is they would look at the writing. They the ubiquitous, they would look at the writing of, you know, 1000 high achievers. What, what are the commonalities and they’re writing

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Mike Mandel: 200 people committed suicide. You know 1500 people who come from broken homes and they start to gradually figure out

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Mike Mandel: These aspects of the personality and then determine we can make predictions based on this. Let’s see if they work.

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Mike Mandel: And so, again, it’s based on large numbers like any other science. It’s not just pulled out of thin air, although there are a number of graph ology books will say that

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Mike Mandel: right up front that are just crap. They’re, they’re not well done. People invent their own systems. There’s a science to it, though. And if you follow the science. It’s great. So I didn’t know any of this.

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Mike Mandel: 1992 1993 I had done, I had a gift certificate from a bookstore in Toronto. It was actually called the world’s biggest bookstore, because it was at that time was huge.

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Mike Mandel: Great star spend hours there.

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Mike Mandel: My stepmother giving me this thing and we just sitting there we went to the stores looking around and I see this book and it’s on handwriting analysis. My wife says when you get that I went

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Mike Mandel: Oh yeah, maybe set my shelf for like a year or two and then one day I took it off the shelf started remit.

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Mike Mandel: Wow, wow, wow, got fascinated by it. So she formed around and found I could do a one day intensive with this woman Elaine Cheryl Ealing Charles Canada’s best crap all just another

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Mike Mandel: Personal friend. Now I did her one day intensive and she thought I had a knack for it. So I wound up becoming certified through the international graph analysis society out of Chicago.

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Mike Mandel: And then went to the you know the convention there spend a week. They’re doing you know week long internship with all the stuff I’ve done did all the online exams and so on and graduated with something like 98% I found had a knack for it and started mentioning it in my brain software.

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Mike Mandel: Lectures and so on. And I found it.

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Mike Mandel: is mind blowing, it’d be good to give you an example how mind blowing this

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Mike Mandel: I did a gig three actually for Neil Strauss. The New York Times bestselling author wrote about pickup artists and everything really interesting guy. So we had one

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Mike Mandel: In loads in Hollywood, so did this keynote forum and some training and we got into the handwriting and they’re all having me look at their writing one guy comes up.

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Mike Mandel: And he’s a medical doctor and I could tell he’s very skeptical. And he said, so what is my writing show heads me is writing. And I said, oh, not much other than I’m just wondering what you do to control that almost uncontrollable sexual aggression that dominate your life.

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Mike Mandel: Is bright red anyone. Holy shit.

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Mike Mandel: But it gets even better listen to this hip no thoughts live

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Mike Mandel: That’s sitting gnosis convention in the world us Las Vegas, where we do the bowling and we have such a blast me Scott, Richard, do a great job.

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Mike Mandel: I did a day long graph ology training there and on the break, as usual, the stick and samples under my nose and one woman hand to the sample is exactly what happened.

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Mike Mandel: And the sample had the personal pronoun. I really screwed up. Let me get a Sharpie here. I’ll go through the background.

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Jason Mefford: Where’d he go, where’d you go

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Mike Mandel: Here we go. So the personal pronoun.

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Mike Mandel: Which copybook Palmer method. It’s gonna get it is I’ll look at my own screen. Yeah.

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Mike Mandel: I like that okay packers packers of Hell, why is it doing that, you know, it’s probably something to do with that downloadable background.

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Mike Mandel: So in in the personal pronoun i, this tells us much the. This is called the sale, the upright is the sale.

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Mike Mandel: That’s relationship with Father.

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Mike Mandel: You can see it as an erect penis symbolically. This is the womb of mother. All right. Now, interestingly, you can tell the relationship of the parents by how they do the personal pronoun and with this particular person.

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Mike Mandel: When

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Mike Mandel: My writing this was this was what her personal

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Jason Mefford: His father issues.

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Mike Mandel: So she pushes the right in front of me woman in her 50s and I just said to her, darling. I said, what on Earth happened to your dad. She said he was murdered.

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Mike Mandel: Was like, whoa, yeah. Yeah, it’s, it’s crazy. The stuff that is coming out. And again, you know, North American wide me living in Canada as a Brit living in Canada and you guys in the US, we learned the Palmer method and Palmer was enough water.

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Mike Mandel: frickin writing control freak. She was bound by incredible jealousy. She repressed her emotions. It’s not the kind of stuff you want to copy because when you copy the traits, they appear in your personality, over time, but so

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Kathy Gruver: So that’s, that’s a great question. So I’ve heard people say this, you can tell me if it’s true or not. I don’t know that our audience has heard this that you can actually start to adjust your personality by adjusting your handwriting.

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Mike Mandel: Yes, Grandpa therapies fairly well established now because it is not your hand that rights. It’s an extremely complex neuromuscular function that begin somewhere. And I think the neocortex or something.

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Mike Mandel: The bottom line is a signal comes from the brain travels down the arm to the hand fine motor skills we write

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Mike Mandel: Based on the outworking of our personality, however, and it’s a big. However, if we change the handwriting. We are now sending a signal back in this psychodynamic loop back into the brain. The brain changes perfect example.

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Mike Mandel: Right after I’d been a graph all just for a long time and I determined to make some changes my own handwriting it which were very useful.

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Mike Mandel: Elaine told me to complete the lower loops. So the lower loops are in geez, and wise and things like that. I’ll see if I can get one on your screen for you hear a lower loop.

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Mike Mandel: Okay.

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Mike Mandel: I’ll get it there. See the top one. I’ve got the that’s where the lower loop should be like large well formed. Yep. It also shows you the size of your social circle, how many people you need around you.

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Mike Mandel: And people with huge lower loops need huge social circles, people with no lower loop can be very, very solitary

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Mike Mandel: And they can manage their own company, they don’t get cabin fever, if they’re stuck in a, you know, three weeks storm there. Okay.

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Mike Mandel: But the problem is the no lower loop. If you see the baseline that the letter rests on

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Mike Mandel: And then that will be loop descends below it. The baseline is the line of conscious awareness everything down below the circle of that g, which is sitting on the baseline everything below it, because unconscious and everything down there is very, very interesting. So I’m seeing lower loops.

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You know,

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Mike Mandel: This is called a coil. You don’t see it very often. That’s a really nasty trait that’s somebody who after your life up pretty bad. And of course the my favorite for the nasty ones. This one, the felons claw.

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, where it has, it has to have a point must have a point in order to qualify the phones clause found in the handwriting of something like 80% of

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Mike Mandel: inmates in the US Penitentiary system. And so it’s not something you want to add your writing. I tell people you have that remove it. But so back to this whole grapple therapy thing.

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Mike Mandel: I had this, you know, made some changes my writing my lower loops Elaine looked at them and she said,

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Mike Mandel: This. These are thoughts that are not making it your conscious awareness is stuck in the unconscious. You’ve got all this creativity. It’s not getting out there.

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Mike Mandel: Complete those loops, make them large make them cross the baseline. I did became a frickin create a monster, you know, Ma che engage with all our stuff our podcast newbie thing and

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Mike Mandel: Mind state bringing all this stuff, it is I get more ideas now that we can use it. That’s my job is to create content so

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Mike Mandel: Among other things. So one of the things I changed my writing was I saw the literary Dean and I highly recommend you both put this in your writing. It’s beautiful, the literary D is a small letter D, but instead of like I’m drawn at the top.

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Mike Mandel: It’ll be one of these that you’ll see on the bottom, something more like this. Okay. So there we are. So the top is a typical small letter D.

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Mike Mandel: These it can look like a musical note like a six or whatever. Anyway, these ds. The bottom line is you start in the middle and work outward from there to the tail. Okay, that’s the sequencing, this

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Mike Mandel: I was in the British Museum in London, England, I got to look at the writing and Samuel Johnson Lewis Carroll Dickens, they all have to literally do all of them way with words and writing ability so I

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Mike Mandel: Wound up putting that in my writing way with words and writing ability forgot about it absolutely forgot about it and then

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Mike Mandel: The weirdest thing happened.

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Mike Mandel: I was explaining something to my wife and I want to, oh I need these books. I gotta get this to my my course address went down the world’s biggest bookstore again.

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Mike Mandel: It’s the figures and all the stories and I needed to get a stack of books for this training.

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Mike Mandel: And it’s dead. I came back with about six hardcover poetry books Byron Katie’s Shelley. My wife said, What’s with the poetry, I said.

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Mike Mandel: I get it. I said I opened it, and he said she walks in beauty like the night of cloud was climbs and stories, guys.

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Mike Mandel: And all that it’s best to dark I might need inner aspect in her eyes. That’s mellow to that tender line which heaven to Gaudi day denies Kenneth Branagh so she says, you idiot, you put the literary D in your writing months ago you forgot about it all of a sudden

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Mike Mandel: Have a freakin clue. This is zero interest to me like I understood it, it’s like a machine as I’m reading it, it’s going inside now like a hypnotic induction I wound up founding the Val de mar group, which was a poetry group in Toronto and we would meet and write together just got

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Mike Mandel: Hurt stories won a prize was printed by the Toronto Star. I mean, it’s changed your writing, change your personality change your personality change your life and I recommend everybody put the literary Diem to Greek thing to have.

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Kathy Gruver: That’s so cool. Okay, so I have three questions that I’m you’re constantly. So, whoops, as I wax up off my wall. So if the writing slopes downward as you’re writing it versus sloping upward as you’re writing it, and also the signature and like crossing yourself out. And that’s all

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, yeah. Great stuff writing that gently slopes down is someone who’s mood is kind of on a downswing. It doesn’t mean they were depressed.

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Mike Mandel: But writing that is the level is level emotions of writing that slopes upward tends to bring in optimism. Now, any trait that is out of

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Mike Mandel: Is done too much is not a good thing. So when we see optimism, where it’s like, almost, you know, a diagonal on the page 45 degrees that’s that’s overcompensation for something

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Mike Mandel: As somebody trying to be optimistic, so

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Mike Mandel: Even that will come up, but a gentle upslope you’ll see it also in the T bars of the small letter t if they’re up slanted you’re bringing an optimism. In fact, one of the best things your listeners and viewers can do

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Mike Mandel: With your own handwriting complete those lower loops and make your T bars high up on the stem long

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Mike Mandel: And pointed slightly upward. Make sure they’re touching the stem. The height of your T bars will show you how how you set your goals in life.

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Mike Mandel: And you want to set high goals. You don’t want to be just struggling. If you get low low goals at the low self esteem showing in the writing, people would know, different, different plans.

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Mike Mandel: I got real fast at this guys because I used to do a lecture called only about five years ago called Are You dating a psychopath. And they do this to the college

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Mike Mandel: Lecture on psychopathy and would then teach the psychopathic traits shown in hand. Right. And people will then bring me their own writing. And I do like 60 kids graph ology in

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Mike Mandel: Two minutes each, just one after another. And if a couple came up together. It would be amazing. The guy has inflated P stems that’s physicality, but he’s also got extreme jealousy and aggressive

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Mike Mandel: I said, bro. You’ve got to get your jealousy under control. You’re going to kill somebody, and wind up in jail. She turned some said, I told you.

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Mike Mandel: It’s great.

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Mike Mandel: So we’ve said now the signature is another one you just brought up that way to understand the signature. Is this the personality shows up in the handwriting. So the, the typical writing ideally written on

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Mike Mandel: Online paper with their favorite pen or pencil. Nobody writes anymore, but you still can. And so typical handwriting will give the actual personality, whereas the signature.

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Mike Mandel: Gives the personality on parade. This is the, this is the mask, people were in public. This is the public person, whereas the

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Mike Mandel: Writing is the private person. So imagine what one of the traits that goes with introversion is tiny, tiny writing. It’s also extremely high concentration

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Mike Mandel: So if someone is tiny writing. They have great powers of concentration, you can put them to work in a room, surrounded by people and they won’t be distracted.

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Mike Mandel: You get somebody with huge writing, they’re much more aware of their surroundings. They’re monitoring every conversation that’s going on the concentration isn’t great.

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Mike Mandel: But let’s say you get tiny writing and a big signature. This is someone who can make a presentation of being so out there and in your face and

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Mike Mandel: You know, but in reality they are completely withdrawn in their personality, you’re not getting the real thing. Ideally, with a partner either business or romantic whatever you want their handwriting to look very much, if not identical to their signature because what that says.

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Mike Mandel: Is you’re not getting any persona.

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Mike Mandel: What you see is exactly what you get. And if you’re scratching through your signature is Cathy just ass. That’s a really bad thing if you write your full name.

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Mike Mandel: None of it should be X through. That’s a bad, bad thing. In fact, for women. If you see a woman signature and she’s married and has taken her husband’s surname.

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Mike Mandel: If she crosses surname. It means their marriage is on the rocks. You’ll also see it when the surname and the first name move further and further apart over time in the signature. They’re getting distant their relationship without any questions and

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Mike Mandel: With a man if he crosses out the surname.

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Mike Mandel: Of course he crosses the entire name out he’s down on himself. It’d be crosses out the surname, it will be his father or his family that he has issues with

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Mike Mandel: My driver in England, I had a couple of miners. I did five tours of them universities that are used to do.

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Mike Mandel: Hypnosis or electric every night, except Sunday for two weeks in a row. It was exhausting. So drivers who are temporarily police drove me everywhere. What Paul was just a riot.

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Mike Mandel: Paul Giles 300 pounds six foot seven. One of the funniest human beings. I’ve ever met.

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Mike Mandel: And people would say you’re not like any policeman. I never met. He goes, Look, no. I’m a difference. So two policemen. If I’m a little bit worried a little bit will

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Mike Mandel: freak people out anyways great sense of humor in the car. He said, Son, what is my signature show hands is drivers know he’s warrant police weren’t card over which is like they’re like

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Mike Mandel: It’s a signature, first name, Paul second name.

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Mike Mandel: I said Tom, any issues with your dad. He goes,

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Mike Mandel: Only every single day for the last 30 years

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Mike Mandel: Just great. But it’s still freaks me out. It still amazes me one of my teachers bill harms. They don’t be still alive and Chicago

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Mike Mandel: He talked about a guy who they were involved in the church when he started learning graph graph analysis with the trademark term.

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Mike Mandel: He saw all kinds of really bad stuff in this guy’s writing. And everyone said, No, no, no, there’s no way. There’s no way, no, he’s fine, he’s like two years later and doesn’t let goes to jail. It’s like

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Mike Mandel: Crazy that you can tell from ambiguous numbers. The embezzler do ambiguous numbers. Is that a six or is it a squiggle, what is that a one or a seven.

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Jason Mefford: Comes out. We’ll see. We’ll see. That’s why because in my career right how I got introduced to handwriting analysis was from the forensic and fraud standpoint, so we’d be doing investigations, right, one of the reasons why you have people do hand written confessions is for that same reason.

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Jason Mefford: And trying to have a. So that’s what, that’s why when Kathy was like hey Mike wants to talk about handwriting analysis. I’m like, cool. I want to see how he’s going to tie this in because I’ve only had the other side to it. But this whole

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Jason Mefford: Right made with, you know, graph. Oh therapy, being able to actually change ourselves, but also, you know, I’m guessing, as well as a as a therapist.

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Jason Mefford: Analyzing somebody handwriting, to be able to help pinpoint in on where they need the help, right.

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Mike Mandel: Yes, absolutely. One of my students as a psychologist in Spain and Spain and Portugal can remember he sent me an email and said, I got an attachment. He said, this is one of my patients. He says, This person suicidal.

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Mike Mandel: And I looked at his writing and all the upper zones where the T’s and the elves in the HS go that’s all abstract thinking it’s also your moral code.

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Mike Mandel: And it’s, it was extremely long and the lower zones are almost non existent, the middle is almost constricted, which is day to day relationships and friendships. It’s all the Brazil was excessive.

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Mike Mandel: I said this is a guy who lives and nothing but theories. I said he lives in his head. He’s totally anti social. He said, Yeah. He said, You won’t believe it. You see, he’s a PhD in theoretical physics.

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Mike Mandel: And the shows and this writing

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Mike Mandel: But he was suicidal.

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Mike Mandel: And the way you determine that.

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Mike Mandel: It’s a terrifying trade. I’ve only run into a couple of times you see the end of the line of writing end of the line of writing on a page fairly consistent and then suddenly one word will just dip. At the end of the line.

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Mike Mandel: And then it goes back to strike that is the number one predictor of successful suicide not doing it to, you know, an attempt to get attention out successful and the other one that you know through the the signature and then maybe it’s looking at sampling. When we look at

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Mike Mandel: The other one through the signature.

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Mike Mandel: There’s a stroke in handwriting, where if the end it’s great to underline your signature. Everybody should underline their signature with a single left to right, underscore, just one

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Mike Mandel: Not going through the name. It’s okay to go through the descending letters, but just underline the name that brings in self reliance, the ability to go it alone. When you have to

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Mike Mandel: And it’s very, very strong. And it’s one of the leadership traits as his enthusiasm, which is a long t bar. So it’s a great one for everybody to have. But suppose they do finish the name and then they use the end the last letter and come back through their name and then back out again.

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Mike Mandel: That is so specific.

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Mike Mandel: It’s called the bullet through the rifle through the bullet through the head stroke rifle bullet through the head stroke and Tom. What’s the name Hunter S. Thompson before he killed himself. Gonzo journalist his signature change. You can look at it online.

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Kathy Gruver: He had fallen through the

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Mike Mandel: headstone killed himself with a rifle bullet through the head

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Mike Mandel: Hemingway. Same thing signature change. Put that stroke and blow his brains out with a rifle.

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Mike Mandel: I was at a small community college working with kids doing the demos for them and looking at the writing and giving them you know recommendations, what they should change their handwriting.

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Mike Mandel: And they all left. I was packing up and the custodian came over and just a stocking guy.

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Mike Mandel: Get tattoos that we’re not like these beautiful clean ones that I have. They look like freaking jail art like they were done with a ballpoint pen and a razor blade.

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Mike Mandel: And he said, Can you look at my writing is ensure we sat down. He had the suicide thing at the end of the line. I’ve only seen it twice. That was the first time and he had the bullet through the head stroke in his signature.

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Mike Mandel: I said, Dude, you gotta

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Mike Mandel: You gotta do rifles in your house. He said, Yeah, I got a few. I said, You ever think you use them on yourself. He said crosses my mind from time to time. I said, buddy. And I showed him in the writing was really surprised that you got to get that shit out of your writing and

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Mike Mandel: As far as I know nothing happened to him.

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Kathy Gruver: Wow.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, so I have

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Kathy Gruver: Actually have two things I want you to look at. So share my screen, Jason.

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Mike Mandel: Yeah yeah

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. Oh.

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Mike Mandel: You’re asking him. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: I have permission to do that. Okay, so can you see that

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Mike Mandel: I’ve got America. Okay, this is unusual because it’s all over another background.

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Mike Mandel: Immediately, make it difficult. We also have different writing instruments used so

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Mike Mandel: What, oh gosh, you had a lot of analytical ability, a lot to analyze extremely well it seems to be hinting at some diplomatic ability to which is the ability to smooth things over with other people when necessary, but there’s a lot of deep emotions here.

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Mike Mandel: Too much on the go, like,

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Mike Mandel: Overwhelmed it’s hard to say because ideally we want online paper and a typical, typical writing

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Kathy Gruver: This is how he takes all of his notes.

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Kathy Gruver: He grabbed some other piece of paper that’s already got stuff on it and uses out of scratch paper.

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Mike Mandel: said anything. Well, that you can see the size of it. Some of it is very small.

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Mike Mandel: So we’re seeing some good strong powers of concentration there. So it’s not surprising that guess it

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Mike Mandel: Somebody who was able to sort that out but we’re seeing print writing to like some of its writing something that’s printing, so that, again, kind of muddies the water a little bit. I’d love to see an original

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah. Is this there is because I’m a I have print and half cursive

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, that’s pretty typical

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

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Mike Mandel: Okay, so that’s pretty typical. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: All right, what’s that look like to

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Mike Mandel: This is out of control, aggression, somebody who doesn’t listen to other people who is able to be a bully who’s able to

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Mike Mandel: It’s got the club stroke, both at the beginning and at the end. And those down strokes of a club ending that’s cruelty.

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Mike Mandel: The extreme angles. When you think angle think anger. This is someone who drives ahead pushes ahead.

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Mike Mandel: And it’s clearly smudged as well meaning appetites that can get out of control, very deep emotion resentment that would be carried forever able to analyze things to death. Only when it’s to advantage.

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Kathy Gruver: Donald trump signature.

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Kathy Gruver: You’ll

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Mike Mandel: Never be able to read that one boy.

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Mike Mandel: You see, you see the up and left like the up and down jagat

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Mike Mandel: Yeah angles angles or anger and we’re seeing analytical ability and sourcing ability. This is, um, yeah. The club strokes down strokes Jackie Kennedy had the club strokes, the same two

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Mike Mandel: Strokes, the ability to be cruel and controlling with other yeah this is, this has got control over it. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I just because I thought, because we’re filming this on January 7 so yesterday was sort of a holiday in America. So I thought,

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Mike Mandel: So I heard yeah I

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Kathy Gruver: Wonder what his signature looks like interesting

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Kathy Gruver: It’s a

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Mike Mandel: D in it. There’s no d that I can see.

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Kathy Gruver: There’s another one there. You kind of got a little bit of a D, but it never closes.

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Yes, I believe.

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Jason Mefford: Angled

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Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I guess that’s a D. I don’t know.

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Mike Mandel: To what’s interesting here to you see the, the second tall peak. So the first if it’s the d, then in the same name. It will be the L.

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Kathy Gruver: Okay. That’s, yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep.

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Mike Mandel: The retracing in that the heavy

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Kathy Gruver: retracing

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Mike Mandel: Is repressed emotions.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, there’s

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Kathy Gruver: Stuff in the loop. And now, yeah.

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No.

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Kathy Gruver: And I guess that’s the J.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, that the tea.

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Jason Mefford: The tea. That’s not cross through

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Kathy Gruver: Well, because that the cross. I mean, that’s what’s interesting

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Mike Mandel: Um,

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No, but that’s also

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Mike Mandel: The overwhelming thing, the overwhelming thing is the angles and the depth by depth. We call it color meaning just help fix the lines are how much smeared ink is there is incredible emotional depth emotional depth is someone who can hold a grudge for ever.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: I think we’ve proven that one. Okay.

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Kathy Gruver: I’m going to stop sharing my screen.

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Mike Mandel: Signature though, so perhaps you’d be like, it’s not like

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Mike Mandel: We have to look at the rest of the writing.

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Jason Mefford: There’s a lot of writing on the wall for that character, but anyway.

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Kathy Gruver: Any questions from

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, well, I wanted to ask, because I know I know we’re gonna have to kind of wrap up here.

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Jason Mefford: fairly quick. But I know there’s been a transition from you know what the cursive

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Jason Mefford: If you will, writing that we all learned growing up and I was talking with one of my you know 25 year old stepson

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Jason Mefford: And you know he was, he tried to make a Christmas. He likes to draw Christmas cards for us right so

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Jason Mefford: He was, he was trying to do like this curse of Merry Christmas, and it was just really Ali all garbled and then he kind of wrote fuck cursive and did everything

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Jason Mefford: Letters right but but but no. I mean, it was funny. But in talking to him literally that he was never really taught cursive and he difficulty as I’m guessing most younger people do, because I think they even quit teaching cursive in school.

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, they did. They stopped teaching cursive they stopped teaching grammar here in Canada, and it’s really unfortunate because the Palmer method is an old K Foundation for learning from

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Mike Mandel: But part of brain development requires fine motor skills. Yeah. And one of the things that is lost when kids do not learn cursive writing

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Mike Mandel: Is they lose a lot of cause and effect thinking to it is part of the brain development. There’s an entire book written on this. It’s called won’t be lost or so it’s not the title, but something like that. So trying to find it again.

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Mike Mandel: And it’s all about how taking away cursive writing how it’s having a tremendously bad effect on kids when I over the years that I’ve done these lectures. The graph ology lectures. The university circuit.

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Mike Mandel: I’m looking at kids writing now, and some of them can can barely even print you know it’s it’s really unfortunate we’re seeing I’m seeing a ton of low self esteem and poor thinking skills.

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Mike Mandel: And then again. The exception is, I was at Sheridan College in the western to Toronto and the kids. They’re mostly Southeast Asian

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Mike Mandel: And they had amazing writing skills really high tea bars incredible high achievers. So there is a correlation there somewhere. And hey, I want to remember to say that we have a special promotion for your awesome listeners.

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Mike Mandel: I have my entire online graph ology training and maybe put a link to this on your

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, of course.

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Mike Mandel: Your entire online graph ology training, which was taught in in Toronto at the University of Toronto. We rent space there. I’m not part of the university but

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Mike Mandel: We taught a class there and the notes that come with it, but mostly it’s a live class you’re seeing all edited down and then I believe we supplemented it with the entire class I taught in Las Vegas. So both of them are in the product.

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Mike Mandel: You can go to Mike Mandel with one L Mike Mandel hypnosis com forward slash graph ology and it’s there and for anybody listening. Your to this podcast. We’ve given you the promo code, which is

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Mike Mandel: Let’s get it right.

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Mike Mandel: I said earthen fire didn’t make yes earth and fire as one word, with no gotta leave things now.

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Mike Mandel: Fire with no words with no spaces.

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Mike Mandel: all lowercase. So that’s promo code if you enter that you get 100 bucks off the training.

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Kathy Gruver: Nice. Is it fire and fire is

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Mike Mandel: What’s the new podcast.

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Mike Mandel: fire fire fire in her

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Jason Mefford: Right.

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Kathy Gruver: Never get never get first billing. So it was exciting for a second.

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Mike Mandel: Fire and

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Jason Mefford: Sorry, we did at the anyway.

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Kathy Gruver: Right. Oh.

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Jason Mefford: Wow. Well, this. I mean, this has been

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Jason Mefford: Entertaining but way educational to because again it’s, you know, I never realize the, the impact it can have from a therapeutic standpoint, but also for a, you know, changing your personality by

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Mike Mandel: Change. Yes, yes.

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Jason Mefford: Right as well.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, and and how important it is. So I’m sitting there, because I’m usually always a note taker. So now I’m sitting here going, Oh, how are mighty, mighty bars. Hi. Are they going up until the, you know, I’m sitting near

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Mike Mandel: The line dropping. Yeah.

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Mike Mandel: Yeah, yeah, it’ll serve you very well and it’s a great skill for therapists, because

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Mike Mandel: I’ve got a client today in Australia. Very seldom see them, but he’s already emailed me his handwriting or emailed it sends us an attachment, so I’ll be looking at that. I’ll know who he is. Before I meet with him.

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Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: And when I did my hypnosis training. We did an entire like three part on on graph ology. And when I have my clients do affirmations or right out. Girls are shopping list write in cursive it goes directly to the subconscious as opposed to typing it with fingers your thumb.

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Mike Mandel: You know, all that stuff. So God and

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I

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Kathy Gruver: Was very excited to see what you thought it was

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Jason Mefford: At least

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Mike Mandel: Give me, give me a real sample on paper signed and dated send it to me and I’ll be more than happy to evaluate it for you.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I wish to look at them like to because we were going to do that man never sent it to you. So

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Mike Mandel: Not a problem.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, this has been so fun. I just, I love you, Mike, you’re just so I

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Mike Mandel: Love it.

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Kathy Gruver: I know

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Jason Mefford: We’re hide me

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Kathy Gruver: I just, I love it. You’re so willing to share all this info. I actually took your graph ology class in Vegas. So I’m excited. That’s, that’s included with that. It’s just so good so

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Kathy Gruver: Everybody, go go to my site will put everything in the lower thirds will put everything in the show notes and check out your handwriting. See what it looks like.

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Kathy Gruver: I’m Kathy Gruber. I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out, get Mike’s course.

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Jason Mefford: And start being a little bit more conscious about how you’re actually writing and what that might mean about what you’re doing. And if you want to change, change what you’re doing, you know, go back. Listen to this again because Mike dropped some big bombs out

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Jason Mefford: There that if you just actually start taking some of the things he said, even today, you’ll start making a difference. So we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast. See you.

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Mike Mandel: Thanks a lot.

Past life regression. What is it? Furthermore, how does this help you improve and enrich your life?

Have you ever felt a certain affinity to a certain person or place for some inexplicable reason? What about feeling as if you have memories that you never personally lived through?

It’s possible that you may have created these memories or experienced these people and places in a past life!

In today’s episode we discuss past life regression and how this can be a great tool for therapy and self improvement.

To schedule a Past Life Exploration hypnotherapy session with Kath, visit: http://www.healingcirclehypnotherapy.com/

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason Medford

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kathygruver: And I’m Kathy gruver and I’m so excited for this conversation. We’re going to be talking to you about one of my most favorite things past life regression and reincarnation, and the possibility

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kathygruver: That you may have lived in another lifetime. I’ve been playing with us since high school. So I’m very excited about this.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and I am too because I, you know, we’ve known each other for a while, but I didn’t realize the history behind it. I knew that you did some past life.

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Jason Mefford: Regression hypnosis work, but I didn’t know this, you know, and I was kind of introduced to this probably a year or so ago when i when i when i read a book. And there’s been several other things that have come along and

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Jason Mefford: You know, I think, I think we all and and you know, again, this is going to get a little whoo, whoo. For some of you, and that’s fine. But if it is, then, you know, listen, listen with an open mind. Right, but

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Jason Mefford: You know, I think, I think most of us, and you probably feel this way to this isn’t the first time you you’ve been here.

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Jason Mefford: You know there’s things like deja vu experiences that we have, there’s other stuff that you know we. A lot of people, especially if they’re religious believe in an afterlife, but we forget to talk about the pre life and the fact that we’ve been here before.

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Jason Mefford: In different times in different places experiencing different things as part of our total cosmic growth as well.

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Jason Mefford: So, so, yeah. Kathy. I haven’t heard the story. So maybe you know tell let’s let’s get into how did you get started because I know you said, I think this was clear back in high school, when you started

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Jason Mefford: You know, looking into this and then again you’ve kind of done this for many years, right, because high schoolers, a long time ago. For most

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Jason Mefford: High Five years ago, five

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kathygruver: For those of you on audio. Yeah, it’s been five years. Let’s go with that. Now, it was I was obsessed with metaphysical and magic and any sort of books like that I used to sneak them out of the library because I was raised.

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kathygruver: Pretty strictly Catholic and I was glad this always this fear of getting in trouble.

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kathygruver: Yeah, so I was so afraid that if I check the book out of the library, they would like call my mom and do like, you know, a Kathy’s rating, which

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Jason Mefford: Is stealing them out and then bringing them back.

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kathygruver: Oh I stole them.

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kathygruver: Yeah, that’s

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kathygruver: More logical that that take a bath. I would photocopy them and then I’ve returned them, but I remember finding books on reincarnation.

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kathygruver: And one of them had an audio cassette. Those are these small things that aren’t CDs or MP3 that you put into a machine and then listen to, for those of you don’t know. And I remember listening to these cassettes and it was this guided

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kathygruver: Past life regression. And I started doing that in high school.

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kathygruver: And move on to college. I had a couple friends that were really into it. I had started studying with Roger Walter and read the book, which I know we’re going to talk about many lives. Many masters.

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kathygruver: And it just zoomed me so much and so on Friday and Saturday nights when everybody else was out partying and getting drunk. I would have people into my dorm and I do past life regression

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kathygruver: I was different, not to say I didn’t go up other nights. But yeah, so it’s just something I’ve been fascinated with and it, it made sense to me, having been raised Catholic, it is that you’re born, you die, you go to heaven or hell.

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kathygruver: To me it was like, well, I had too many questions about that, like what my heaven is different than somebody else’s heaven. And what do you see other people like what does that, how does that work.

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kathygruver: And the you’re born, you die. It’s pointless and you just go back to dirt made no sense, because then what’s

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kathygruver: The purpose. What’s the point and talk about life being unfair. You know, you get somebody who’s born upper middle class.

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kathygruver: In California versus someone who’s in some small village somewhere, who’s getting generally mutilated at six.

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kathygruver: Wait what, this is our only shot at this so the only thing just to me and everyone has their own opinion on this.

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kathygruver: The only thing to me that made sense was this idea of coming back. Multiple times trying it again and again I equated to high school, I create equated to like summer stock theater. We’ll talk about all those metaphors at some point.

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kathygruver: But it just made sense to me. So, and I’ve regressed

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kathygruver: Dozens of people. It’s how I got into hypnosis.

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kathygruver: Well, yes.

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kathygruver: For a lot

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Jason Mefford: You know, like you said it was the same thing. I mean, because I grew up very religious myself right Mormon instead of Catholic, but it was the same thing, you know, but

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Jason Mefford: But what was interesting is there. There were some things in the Mormon religion, right, that actually when you step back and you and you think about it from a broader perspective.

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Jason Mefford: Right. I mean, they, they talk about, you know, there was this grand council before and we all kind of

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Jason Mefford: You know, decided who our parents were going to be and how we were going to come down and what we were going to do and that we were going to grow. During this life. And then we move on.

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Jason Mefford: Right to something else. Now, again, it’s still pretty much like a once and done kind of a feel in that right and then whatever you do, here you you go on to the heaven right

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Jason Mefford: And they actually believe there’s a couple of different heavens, but won’t get into that today right but but I remember you know to as a young kid, kind of in a young kid. And then, as I’ve gotten older to it was that whole idea of heaven and hell yeah you know and and i think it’s it’s

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Jason Mefford: You know, the idea of looking around at some of these other people who were going to be going to have quote unquote heaven and it’s like, I don’t want to be with these people.

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Jason Mefford: You know, I want to go somewhere else. But it, but it makes a lot of a lot of sense. Again, like you said when you start to when you stop and start thinking about it.

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Jason Mefford: And then you see a lot of the ancient traditions and other stuff that’s out there. There’s a lot of stuff out there about reincarnation.

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Jason Mefford: You know, the, the, you know, Judeo Christian creed that that a lot of people in the world kind of fall under an umbrella. Today it’s like one god you know you’re born, once you die, you go to heaven or hell kind of a thing. But almost every ancient tradition. It’s not about that.

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Jason Mefford: It’s about some form of reincarnation about learning about growth.

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Jason Mefford: In doing this, you know, multiple times as well. And so, so yeah. You know, I kind of got introduced to it by reading that book, many lives. Many masters.

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Jason Mefford: Which is a fabulous book.

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Jason Mefford: You know, that’s the first one. I think it’s Tournament of the guy’s name while

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kathygruver: Brian Weiss.

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Jason Mefford: Weiss Weiss, that, you know, I think the first book was him. He was a hip hypnotist and he was trying different things with this one, one particular lady.

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Jason Mefford: And things just weren’t working. And so he heard about past lives, I think. And he’s like, All right, well, let’s try it. Right.

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Jason Mefford: And one of the sessions and it was like, holy crap. You know what’s going on here. And he kept doing this. I think it was that that book kind of goes through her journey and I

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Jason Mefford: Can’t remember how many regressions.

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Jason Mefford: But

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Jason Mefford: To the point a lot

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Jason Mefford: Right. And to the point that you know they came together in this life. But in a lot of the regression. He was there too.

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Jason Mefford: So they had known each other. And again, the universe brought them back together in this life, you know, as well, because there were some things that they both needed to learn

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Jason Mefford: In some ways that he was able to help her release some of the we’ll just call it prior karma. I guess is probably the best way right because

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Jason Mefford: We have to as part of our growth and learning. We have to work through our karma as well. And some of that was from things we did or did not do in previous lives and it’s just part of our growth process as well as as as we’re coming through here. So,

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kathygruver: Yeah, you know, I, I’m going to just correct something in the book.

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kathygruver: Because I’ve read this thing so many times. He was a psychiatrist.

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kathygruver: I think it was Gail Gail tradable like really highly respected in the industry. Yeah.

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kathygruver: He didn’t believe in past lives he decided to try hypnosis to get her to root cause of

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kathygruver: Trauma was coming from. And so he said, go to the first time. Go to the first time go the first time. Go to the first time and suddenly he she ended up in another lifetime. And he kind of went, Wait, what the

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kathygruver: You know he didn’t actually realize he was doing it. He thought he was using a different technique did not set out to get her to a past life. He said, go back

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kathygruver: And she ended up in a completely different time a completely different place. Now for the people right off that are going to say she’s pro just making it up. I don’t care.

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kathygruver: I don’t care if you made up that you’re an Italian princess and that if it solves the problem. If you need to use that symbolism and that image.

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kathygruver: To get work down. I don’t care. I do something to called mythic and archetypal journeys, which is similar to past lives, except it’s more just pure fantasy,

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kathygruver: Is where the best healing tools I’ve ever used and people are just making stuff up. So it’s like I don’t if you don’t believe in past lives. It doesn’t matter. Past life regression is still incredibly effective

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kathygruver: So let me just throw out some my after studying with so much some of my beliefs around this, I believe we cycle back with the same basic group of people over and over again. I believe we do pick our parents, our time where we’re going to be what our gender is going to be

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kathygruver: To me past live lives and reincarnation explains things like that love at first sight feeling you meet someone just go, oh my God, I feel like I’ve known you forever. Okay, where’s that come from.

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kathygruver: That moment where you know you’re in dance class you look over, you go, oh,

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kathygruver: I don’t know her, but I just don’t like her. I don’t know why there’s just some feeling that, you know, anytime we have those kind of judgment THOSE SNAP assessments of people to me that could be could be a past life thing to me it perfectly explains homosexuality and transgender

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kathygruver: It explains some injury. Some ailments and injuries and long term, things like that. And I have seen some incredible things happen during reincarnation sessions in my office.

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kathygruver: Where pain goes away and relationships are strengthened and just that knowledge is gained and for me personally just cuz I’ve been doing it so long. I think it’s kind of fun. It’s fun to explore where you may have been before. Now, so

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kathygruver: Well, where I come from, with all that

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. And it’s interesting, you know, again, because with that right is one of the things that I’ve heard somebody say, too, is you either. Were you are or you will be

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Jason Mefford: In that term meaning that, you know, in order for us to really learn and grow and fully

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Jason Mefford: kind of learn this human experience. We have to have either gone through certain things before go through them now or go through them in the future.

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Jason Mefford: And so a lot of that stuff. Again, you know, genders, you know, again, from the from that book. And I’m guessing, from your experience. A lot of times people end up as a different gender or a different race or in a different time period.

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Jason Mefford: And and it’s

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Jason Mefford: You know, again, for me, helps to kind of explain some of the stuff to where, where, you know, like you said, you see somebody, and you’re like, oh, I don’t like them. Right. Well, good chance there was some negative thing that happened before. Right.

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Jason Mefford: And, and, you know, the same thing with that love at first sight, are some of the deja vu kind of experiences that we have, like, I’ve experienced this before. I’ve seen this before.

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Jason Mefford: And it but but also kind of sometimes the empathy that we can have her other people or maybe you know particular things that we just at our at our roots right in our, in our soul level.

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Jason Mefford: We just have strong opinions are strong empathy about because, you know, again, chances are, maybe

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Jason Mefford: You know, take something like, you know, gay, transgender transgender kind of stuff that may be again in a previous life you were

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Jason Mefford: Gay. Now you’re straight but you have this affinity and this protection, if you will, for gay rights. Well, that would make sense if you’d experience life that way before.

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kathygruver: Absolutely or something like you know you have been a man for 15 lifetimes and now you’re a woman that’s going to confuse the heck out of what’s going on.

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kathygruver: Or, you know, I have a very dear friend. She’s married to another woman, she never considered herself gay her girlfriend never considered herself gay they fell in love with each other and said, hey, I guess we’re doing this thing.

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kathygruver: We have no idea of

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kathygruver: F multiple lifetimes before this one was a man and one was a woman, and they had that heterosexual relationship. And now, happens to be in this lifetime. They reconnect and they’re both women.

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kathygruver: I don’t know, I can’t, I’m just tossing out theories. I’m not saying this is true, don’t want to offend anybody. It’s just another way to think about things and go

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kathygruver: Cook, though, that that would kind of make sense, you know, same thing. I have certain affinity with with locations. I mean, when I showed up in Rome.

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kathygruver: Oh my god, I mean, I knew it. It was it was someplace that I had always wanted to go. I felt such an affinity with that location.

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kathygruver: And I know people like that to like they cannot get enough of Paris. They want to be there all the time. It’s not just the bread and the great wine. It’s they have an affinity with that location. Same thing with Hollywood.

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kathygruver: old Hollywood to me. Huge connection with that the Titanic huge connection with that you’d mentioned Atlantis, everybody thinks they were in Atlanta, but you know a lot of us work. So yeah, so that’s, and I think we

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kathygruver: I think we traveled with the same basic pod of people

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kathygruver: And I the analogy I like to use for that is I don’t know if any of you have ever done summer stock theater. You’ve done that kind of like contract work where you come back every year and you do shows together.

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kathygruver: You know those core people you know that Joe’s gonna make a great leading man and Karen’s going to do lights and well it’s Bob can direct and

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kathygruver: You work well with that group of people, you get things done well. So if you’re traveling with that same core group of people

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kathygruver: You know how they work. You know, you’re going to be able to get the work done. You start throwing other people into that performance. You know, like, Wait, I don’t know what what

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kathygruver: So I think we travel with the same group of people. I think they play different roles. You know, sometimes your dad is your brother, and sometimes your wife is your sister. And you know, it’s like, but I i’ve seen that over and over again with people.

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kathygruver: When I do regressions.

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Jason Mefford: Well, so let’s so let’s let’s talk maybe a little bit about that too because, again, I mean this fascinates me.

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Jason Mefford: As well. But, but, you know, like you said to its, its people that are listening you know some of you are going to be like Kathy and me.

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Jason Mefford: And what you’re going to be like, yeah. This totally makes sense right there’s of you are going to be like, this is the biggest bullshit right you guys are off your rocker. Okay, fine. We might be

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Jason Mefford: All right, cool. But, but let’s talk about maybe a little bit too about the therapeutic side of this, because again, like you said, whether you believe it or not.

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Jason Mefford: It is effective as a form of therapy. You’ve seen it. Like I said, there’s, there’s plenty of books and other stuff that are out there.

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Jason Mefford: That talk about the benefits that people get from this and some of it is actually pretty amazing as well. Right, so

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Jason Mefford: You know, in some, something that you would have heard to say before is again you know whether your subconscious, you know, whether it’s real or not your subconscious believes it.

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Jason Mefford: And so, you know, there’s some efficacy to this as a healing tool as well. So, so maybe kind of talk a little bit that way to about, you know, some of the healings and other kinds of stuff like that that have actually come from these types of exercises that people going through

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kathygruver: Yeah, I mean I could talk I’ve read so many things about, you know, chronic pain going away and you know illnesses that have cleared up. I’ve seen it strengthen relationships, a lot. I had a client who

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kathygruver: Was always having conflict with her father.

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kathygruver: She was very rebellious. She was very open minded very free very and her dad is incredibly religious and so there was a constant conflict there.

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kathygruver: And when she had expressed that she wanted to step away from the church because she didn’t really believe those teachings and those tenants. He was incredibly upset as a religious parent would be

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kathygruver: We did a bunch of past life regression. And it looks like in a previous lifetime.

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kathygruver: They had a similar situation where they were in. I don’t remember the details. This was a while ago, but they were in some pretty strict religious group together. She was a male at that point. So she was the son, she stepped out of that group.

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kathygruver: Was reported to be a heretic, or whatever. The term was back in that day and she was killed and her father mourned for the rest of his life.

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kathygruver: And so I look at that and I go, Okay, well, here’s a very familiar situation to your father if he still remembers that feeling.

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kathygruver: He’s going to be completely freaking out that you’re leaving the church, not only because it breaks that chain of what he would like but he’s in fear for your safety.

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kathygruver: And so she looked at it from that perspective of what could he be thinking or feeling that is giving him these feelings such strong feelings towards me leaving the church.

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kathygruver: Is there a bit of fear there. Is there a bit of fear for my safety.

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kathygruver: She and he ended up sitting down, having a beautiful conversation about her soul in her heart, and why she wanted to go and why she felt so strongly about this.

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kathygruver: And they had just this great reassurance with each other, of love and safety and respect and like relationship CLEARLY SHE WAS NEVER been closer to her dad now. Did she make that up. I don’t care. I don’t care.

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Jason Mefford: A relationship. So yeah, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter as long as you’re getting the result.

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kathygruver: Right, exactly. Or, you know, a parent who has such over concern for certain child or is very helicopter. He was very, you know, was there an issue in a previous lifetime in that relationship where one left and never came back. Or there was

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kathygruver: A death or eight. I mean, we don’t know until we go back and kind of look at that and I have seen people’s illnesses clear up gives them a hint into

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kathygruver: Why, maybe they have asthma. Now, or why they have chronic headaches. Now, or, you know, some people believe if you’ve got birthmarks or moles or something like that. That’s a holdover from a previous lifetime, I don’t know, maybe

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kathygruver: Can be who was to say there was a really cool.

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kathygruver: Documentary that was done probably 10 or 12 years ago about children and past lives and how many kids would

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kathygruver: Either say to their mom, you are my sister last time.

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kathygruver: What because it seems to be up to the age of six or eight, they’re still tapped into those memories and then you know our critical thinking comes in and we’re like, it’s bullshit.

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kathygruver: And there was one young boy, this was such a famous case, there was a whole whole hour spent on this kid. He was obsessed with planes. He was obsessed with World War Two.

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kathygruver: He was drawing pictures of planes. He knew parts of planes. He knew mechanics of planes and his parents are sitting there going, we don’t have cable.

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Jason Mefford: Not watching the History Channel.

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kathygruver: We home school him.

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kathygruver: With me there was no way this could could notice stuff and he came up with a name. He came up with how he died, he came up with this location they started to do all this research, they called in

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kathygruver: Some of the tops in the field and reincarnation, and they did research on this kid and multiple regressions with him, they found out who he was previously and that this guy, his sister was still alive.

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kathygruver: They showed the kid a picture of this woman, and he called her sissy or whatever that man’s nickname would have been for a sister, and they ended up meeting and I thought, Oh my god, that’s so trippy because you have this little kid who’s

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kathygruver: Part of the past life is still alive.

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kathygruver: And so

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kathygruver: You know there’s there’s a lot of young children who were commenting on 911 who were commenting on what was the bombing in Chicago were like a preschool was, was that

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Jason Mefford: Was the Oklahoma City, you think

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kathygruver: Oklahoma City.

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kathygruver: Where kids now because they wouldn’t have, you know,

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kathygruver: In this lifetime. They weren’t alive. Back then making comments about all I remember, you know, falling out of this really tall building and planes coming. And it’s like, whoa, you’re talking about 911

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kathygruver: after not having exposure to that thing now. So, I mean, there’s plenty of

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kathygruver: Evidence and people who are going to doubt it still doubt it, which is totally fine. I respect that opinion on it, it’s sounds out there, even to me as I’m saying it, but you know there’s a lot of evidence of children who are remembering things or, you know, calling

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kathygruver: People by different names are saying that I knew you in a different way before so I look to that they’re not as corrupt as our minds, I can make up anything I want kids are a little more innocent with that.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s interesting because it’s, it’s, you know, again, kind of what I was taught before. And again, kind of goes along with this is that when you’re born

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Jason Mefford: Right, we’re still very much connected with the universe. And it’s that you know what I was taught. They called it the veil of forgetfulness, kind of a thing. Right. Is that and again it’s somewhere between six and eight.

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Jason Mefford: That most of this happens that kids you know up and they’re very, very innocent. They have some of these different types of experiences you know they talked about grandma who’s been dead, you know, long before they were they were born or other stuff like that. Sometimes they’re more clairvoyant.

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Jason Mefford: They actually see other people, you know, as well. And then at some point we kind of forget or we’re in this world long enough.

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Jason Mefford: That we kind of sever some of those those ties to source to the universe that we had before. And then it’s like the rest of our lives trying to get back to being a child again.

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Jason Mefford: And being able to tap in

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Jason Mefford: And connect with that and I think it you know it’s Picasso said something you know about this a lot of times, people would

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Jason Mefford: Would make fun of his art, you know, especially when he would come out with with new stuff right but i think he said something to this effect that you know the artist you know you need to try to become childlike again and get back to that place as a child.

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Jason Mefford: And and i think you know again when we do that a lot of this stuff can come through us. You know there’s there’s

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Jason Mefford: There’s a difference between the brain and there’s a difference and the mind is different than the brain and the more that we can tap into the mind and actually realize that we’re

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Jason Mefford: We’re here for a reason we’re connected to the different people around us for a reason. And if we can actually, you know, learn

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Jason Mefford: Grow serve the people around us and you know fulfill whatever karmic journey we’re on in this life, you know, then we prepare ourselves for whatever is to come next.

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Yeah.

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kathygruver: One of the, one of the big push backs. I get is, when I say I believe we pick our families, I believe we pick our parents, I believe we pick the situation I

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kathygruver: feel strongly that when we leave this plane this body. We go to this in between place. If you’ve ever seen the movie. Defending Your Life with Meryl Streep, which is one of my favorite movies. Sorry. So we watched it recently, it’s very slow going

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kathygruver: And I can never remember the actor’s name, who’s with her, but it’s basically in that in between place where you review your life you decide whether you’re moving on, on, or whether you have to come back.

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kathygruver: And, you know, I’ve had so many people didn’t I wouldn’t have picked my parents, my dad’s an asshole. And I would have picked living in Botswana, because

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kathygruver: It’s like, well, but you know what you need. Moving forward, and then that in between place. You are a pure knowledge and pure awareness of this is what I need.

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kathygruver: To get me to that next thing and I earned my senior year of high school, I knew I was going to be a theater major. I didn’t need any more math. I didn’t need any more science. I took like debate psychology drama lunch.

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Jason Mefford: More lunch. Lunch.

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kathygruver: Lunch because I had nothing else I’d run out of classes I had

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kathygruver: I had taken every bloody class I could that I needed that was fun. Senior year for me was a piece of cake. And I had this friend named Kelly. She’s incredible

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kathygruver: I think she’s an attorney in DC. Now, so she busted her ass.

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kathygruver: And I remember I met my locker and I pull out you know my my play that I have to read for drama class and she has this shit ton stack of books.

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kathygruver: She’s taking like calc 32 and true. I mean, she’s taking all these hard classes and she’s walking down the hall with all these books. And I remember thinking,

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kathygruver: That’s sucks. Why would you do that. That looks terrible. She knew that’s what she needed to move on to go to the school. She wanted to for the future that she was creating

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kathygruver: That to me is how we pick these lifetimes. We pick these families and these situations so that we can learn those next things that we know we need some people have a breeze lifetime that you’re just there to enjoy. We know these people.

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kathygruver: Seems like they’re struggling again and again and again. What are you not learning what skills do you need is an empathy is it grace is it

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kathygruver: You know, why are we picking the things that we’re picking. Why did we pick the things that we picked to me. That makes sense. And it to a certain extent explains suffering.

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kathygruver: And I had a client who lost a child, and she did believe in reincarnation. And I said, you know, one you’re going to see him again.

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kathygruver: And frankly, whether you believe in the heaven thing or the reincarnation thing you’re going to see them again.

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kathygruver: I said, you’re going to see them in another lifetime, probably in the future. They are going to look different. They’re gonna be in a different meat suit but it’s the same person. And let’s say

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kathygruver: So many people get offended by this. Let’s say we did choose the lifetime that we had, then that means this soul winning that body and chose to diet five

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kathygruver: And that is such a hard thing for parents to hear and the understanding that perhaps they did choose that to help you move forward to help themselves move forward to help if it becomes a choice and not a trend, not a catastrophe.

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kathygruver: It’s reframed in a different way. And, and I know there’s somebody. They’re so pissed at me for saying that because they probably lost a child. I’m not negating that the feeling of that.

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kathygruver: Can we reframe it. Have they did that, out of a higher good and a higher purpose.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and I’ll, I’ll actually share part of my, my personal story. I haven’t shared this with you.

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Jason Mefford: That kind of goes along with this because my, my mother lost two children.

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Jason Mefford: One when she was very young, little girl was only three years old. One of my sisters and she was my mom was only she would have only been like 19 or 20 because she got married, very early.

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Jason Mefford: So I’m sure very devastating to her right and then, you know, they go along, they have they have you know 455 kids at that point you know wanted passed away.

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Jason Mefford: And then there was an 11 year period where they just didn’t get pregnant and and the doctor told my mom, you know. Yeah, you’re not going to get pregnant and so she went in. She’s like,

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Jason Mefford: 11 years later, you know, I’ve got this flu and it just won’t go away and the doctor looks at her and it’s like, well, you’re pregnant and she’s like,

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Jason Mefford: You told me I couldn’t get pregnant.

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Jason Mefford: Whoops. And here came, Jason.

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Jason Mefford: Okay 11 years you know my next oldest sibling is 11 years older than me.

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Jason Mefford: And so effectively, you know, as far as I know, I would have been kind of an only child growing up with that because I know the spread right the first that I really

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Jason Mefford: Can remember when I’m four or five, you know, my sister was a junior or senior in high school, you know, kind of thing. And then they kind of moved on. Right.

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Jason Mefford: Well, two years later, I had a brother that was born younger brother to me. And so the two of us really kind of grew up.

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Jason Mefford: As siblings, almost like two families kind of thing. Right. And then when my brother was 13 freak accident, you cannot explain the based on what

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Jason Mefford: The circumstances on why the gun went off the gun should not have gone off and he died. Well, when he was 13 I was 15 and and I remember, you know, at that point, again, you know, from my mother. It was a here’s my second child. Now that’s gone right.

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Jason Mefford: And for me, there was all kinds of stuff kind of built up in there, but I remember one of my friends, we

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Jason Mefford: He took me out, you know, because everybody’s bawling in the house and I just had to get out. You know, I just couldn’t stand being in there with a bunch of emotional adults.

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Jason Mefford: And he said some things to me that

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Jason Mefford: Really kind of hit on what we’ve just been talking about and and the one thing was that my younger brother came here. So I would learn

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Jason Mefford: What it was like to have a brother.

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Jason Mefford: And not be an only child, and when he had done.

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Jason Mefford: What he was here to do. He left

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Jason Mefford: But it gave me that opportunity. It gave me the experiences that I needed to learn by having a younger brother.

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Jason Mefford: And it was time for him to move on.

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Jason Mefford: And, and, you know, again, when you when you hear some of those things you you can choose to believe what you want. Right.

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Jason Mefford: And there’s a lot of people that will be bitter and say, you know, how could God do this to me take my child or we can flip it around and we can actually see right the positive in it.

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Jason Mefford: And the fact how grateful I am

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Jason Mefford: That that little guy was my brother for 13 years in this world.

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Jason Mefford: You know, and I still I still think about it.

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Jason Mefford: From time to time and it’s it’s

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Jason Mefford: Everything worked out exactly the way it was supposed to

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Yeah.

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kathygruver: I didn’t know that.

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Jason Mefford: You didn’t know that.

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Well, I

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Jason Mefford: I haven’t shared that publicly, so everybody’s getting to know

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Jason Mefford: But it’s but it’s

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Jason Mefford: You know, again, kind of in with what we’ve been talking about right and there was a reason why he came in. I’m sure we had

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Jason Mefford: Interactions before. And we’re going to have interactions. Again, but that we all are here for a bigger purpose and I know you know most of you again. You, you feel like

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Jason Mefford: You’re here for some bigger purpose than just, you know, being in the rat race and going to work and working your 40 hours and coming home. And that’s because we do all have a bigger purpose here.

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Jason Mefford: And and the more that we can focus on that and try to figure out what is that, what am I supposed to do, how am I supposed to serve other people around me then.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, we learn we learn we grow and and get the things out of this life that we need to. Yeah.

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kathygruver: And it is. What is the lesson in this

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kathygruver: You know, what did I just learned from that experience and and when my husband I split up. Somebody said, oh my god. After 18 years. What a waste or something, some, you know, kind of tossed off of, oh, how tragic and they said no. The tragedy is if I didn’t learn and grow from that.

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kathygruver: That’s that’s the, that’s the failure is if you don’t get out of it, what you’re supposed to. If you don’t come out of these experiences better on the other side. That’s the tragedy.

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kathygruver: Everything to me is a growing and learning experience. Sometimes it sucks.

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Jason Mefford: I didn’t want to lose my mom at 18

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kathygruver: That was not a pleasant experience for me.

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kathygruver: But it’s shaped who I am now. And had I not had that family and that parent and that I would be a completely different person.

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kathygruver: You know and i think i think all that was set up ahead of time. I really do.

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Jason Mefford: All right.

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kathygruver: Here we go.

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kathygruver: So let me. Um, we’re, we’re about to wrap. But how the past life session works.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah.

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kathygruver: Just real quick, so they tend to be longer sessions I allow two hours because you want to explore this is one of those hypnosis sessions where I have the person in the chair talking back to me.

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kathygruver: So you want to get as deep as you can. And one of the things we program and for any of you who have seen any of our other episodes with the myriad hypnotherapist on

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kathygruver: We kind of know how this is done. There’s an induction you deep and deep and deep and deepen

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kathygruver: And one of the things I program with the hypnosis with the past life regression is as you speak it just takes you deeper because when you start to talk you can sometimes come out of state, a little bit.

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kathygruver: But you want to get in pretty deep. And then we can do it any number of ways. Do you want to know why you know so and so. Now, do you want to explore why you’re a teacher again. Do you want to explore

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kathygruver: A location. Do you want to go to the most recent one, you live. Do you want to go to the one that’s most important for you to learn from there’s ways different ways to program that

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kathygruver: When I started with Roger. Roger. He was amazing. He’s no longer with us, unfortunately.

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kathygruver: He would have us write down three places that we just can’t get enough of three places that we would just pay billions of dollars to go to and then three places that repulsed us

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kathygruver: Where you would you could get me to go there. I’m not from any like safety reason of. I’m not going to go to the middle of

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Jason Mefford: It just doesn’t. I didn’t. But just like

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kathygruver: That’s how I feel about certain Asian countries, I, I just don’t want to go. It just, it’s a turnoff to me.

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kathygruver: That was written down, and then he would have you picture a globe spinning and he put you above it and he would slowly lower slowly lower slowly lower and land somewhere on the globe, often in one of those six places that you wrote down

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kathygruver: And then you start with your feet and, you know, what are you wearing if anything. Are you male or female, find a reflective surface. What do you look like our people around you, are you inside. Are you outside

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kathygruver: Go to a place where there’s a lot of people do you recognize anybody from your life now.

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kathygruver: And I remember doing one where I was sitting in this dining room with

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kathygruver: In this life, my father, my husband. We had a servant, there were these huge like Florida ceiling two story windows that were shrubbery outside. It was fall I

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kathygruver: If I remember correctly, I was in like Virginia Washington DC kind of area. And I said, look around the table and

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kathygruver: I looked to my father, and it was my real father, which was interesting because I had never experienced a past life with him and I looked across the table to my husband. It was like chiropractor.

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kathygruver: I hadn’t talked about it wasn’t

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kathygruver: About them, but that was like, I remember. And I was like, whoa, that’s trippy. Okay. And I remember sitting weeks later, sending my chiropractor down and going. So, this happened.

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kathygruver: And we had a servant who was someone I didn’t know is sort of the extra in this little, little movie that we were doing. But so look around, see if there’s anybody you know, see what those relationships are and then you I take people to their happiest moment.

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kathygruver: Their sadness moment and then we do the moment of death and some people really want to feel it like when I do regression for myself, I have a guy that that works on me. I want to feel it. I want to feel the pain. I want to feel the not breathing. I want to feel that agony, because it

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kathygruver: For me personally, makes bigger change. You don’t have to do it that way, you could do second person where you’re sort of watching that happen from across the room. A lot of people like to do that.

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kathygruver: Or you could use third person where you put it up on a movie screen and you’re sitting back in the theater and you’re watching the whole thing unfold in front of you as if you’re watching a movie.

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kathygruver: I’ve never seen anyone do it that way to me. It’s not person for me personally, it’s not personal enough. I don’t get as much out of it.

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kathygruver: We take you past the moment of death. You see the body. What, what are you thinking as you die. What are those things. You feel like you didn’t resolve.

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kathygruver: Is there anything you want to say to people, and then I do what’s called Life between lives where I take you into that empty space and you can resolve things

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kathygruver: You can sit down with that guy you push down the stairs. You could sit down with the person who killed in the battle and say, I’m so sorry. I was just doing my job. I love and care for you and they talk back to you. It’s so beautiful. I love the life between lives saying

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kathygruver: There is actually a process called Life between lives, which is a very complicated thing I don’t go quite that far. But I do touch on those areas. And then you get to float beautiful piece for a while. It’s such a beautiful, I love doing these sessions. So I live about two hours.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s one of those again where, you know, I’m guessing. I’ve never done one yet right yet but

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Jason Mefford: You know, from that, by, by going back and being able to re experience some things right, you know, and again, we’ve

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Jason Mefford: We’ve talked about sometimes, you know, people have a chronic pain somewhere in their body and they learn that will, this is how you died right you you have a thing for your neck. You don’t like to have anything around your

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Jason Mefford: Neck because maybe at some point you were

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Jason Mefford: strangled to death. You know, as an example, or, you know, for me, I, I have a fear of drowning.

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Jason Mefford: Well, probably one of the reasons why I have a fear of drowning. Is that might have been one of the ways that I died before I don’t know right but but this this whole idea to and because so many people were scared of death.

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Jason Mefford: And I think part of it in in seeing the death and experiencing a prayer death helps give you more.

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Jason Mefford: Hope in realization that this ain’t everything. And so there’s no reason to be scared for death, but also that

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Jason Mefford: At a time of death. And I think, like you said, right, you know, what was your happiest moment what to do what, you know, what did you, what did you need to learn from this or take forward. Is that it then allows us to either clear some of those things or realize

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Jason Mefford: That’s something I have to work on. And that’s one of the reasons why I’m here, doing whatever I’m doing

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Jason Mefford: As well.

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kathygruver: I had a client who he longtime client. He was probably one of my first clients and he has chronic headaches, like literally daily migrants.

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kathygruver: Horribly painful.

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kathygruver: He had pretty much exhausted everything else. And he, he’s a total skeptic and he’s like, all right.

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kathygruver: I don’t believe it. But let’s try this past life ship and I went, awesome. We did the regression, because he took so well to hypnosis.

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kathygruver: We had already done some pain management stuff. So he was used to

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kathygruver: Being in the hypnotic place. And we did some past life regression. And we went through. I think we did two sessions. I think we went through four lifetimes and every single death had to do with him hitting his head.

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kathygruver: One was a battle scene where he got in the back of the head from the butt of a

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kathygruver: Must get or something to that effect. One was his happiest moment of him. Surprising his wife and was walking down the stairs with a cake and he slipped me bashes head on the back of the

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kathygruver: Stairs, you just repeated things. But here’s what came out of that didn’t go away what came out of this is in every single lifetime. There was this one person.

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kathygruver: The guy who hit them on the back of the head. One of the friends of the birthday, who ended up the train him and away there’s this running theme of this same guy.

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Jason Mefford: Same person, it’s

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kathygruver: A person in this lifetime that he knows that screw him out of a multimillion dollar deal and is now suing them.

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kathygruver: And so what we ended up coming out of that with was

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kathygruver: Is there forgiveness that needs to happen, is there some reconciliation with this person that needs to happen is their self forgiveness that needs to happen is that, and so he ended up actually resolving this relationship with the person headaches didn’t go away.

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kathygruver: And something else. Good came out of it have this realization of wow, okay. This is a pattern. Now we need to resolve this.

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kathygruver: Again to be make all that up. I don’t care. This ended up helping him through an issue that he’s having right now and help resolve some stuff so

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kathygruver: You never know what you’re going to get out of it. I’ve had people come just because they want to know. They’re just curious. I’ve had a couple lifetimes, where

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kathygruver: It was like my dream like oh my god this is the perfect light up. I always want to do this one. Oh yeah, I’m there and it was shit. It was the most horrible job ever. And to me, it’s like, I wouldn’t have made that up. Like if I was gonna make up that story. It would have been

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kathygruver: Perfect You call it dream lifetime and it ended up being shit I wouldn’t have made that up.

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kathygruver: Just some experience. I mean, there’s I’ve had a couple where I’m like, I couldn’t have come up with that. I mean, it’s like there’s no way I was making that up. So, you know,

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kathygruver: Try it out. It’s fun.

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kathygruver: Her description necessary.

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kathygruver: A few hours of exploration of your own subconscious. Why would you not want to try that.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and I’m guessing to i mean it’s it’s one of those where when people come out.

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Jason Mefford: There’s a release. There’s a piece. There’s a, you know, every time you do this with somebody, and I’m sure I mean you get all excited talking about it because you’ve seen people and you’ve seen how it’s helped them so it’s

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Jason Mefford: You know, yeah, two hours. What do you got to lose and all kind of thing, right, you get to be relaxed for two hours. And you’re probably going to feel better.

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kathygruver: After that. And to your point about the next thing. It’s actually very common that people don’t want stuff around their neck and I had a client who she couldn’t wear a necklace you could like this shirt would be to talk too high for her.

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kathygruver: She just couldn’t stand that feeling. And we ended up doing a past life regression. She was choked out and died soon as we resolve that next time I saw her she was at a turtleneck. And she’s like, I could wear a shirt again. No.

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kathygruver: That’s, that’s, that’s a small thing and it’s still an illustration of what how powerful this worked with me.

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Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Well, again, so I know we’re probably on time. This is one of our longer episodes. But hey,

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Jason Mefford: We love going here. So yeah, I mean, whatever, whatever you take from this you know again believers. Don’t believe us. We don’t care. We’re just here sharing our experiences with you.

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Jason Mefford: But you know, I hope that you got a few things out of this, which is it’s not your first rodeo. You are special. You’re here for a purpose. You know, so, so

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Jason Mefford: You know, how can you grow. What lesson can you learn how can you serve the people around you and just make this the best life that you can

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Jason Mefford: Right. And the best life for everybody else around you as well.

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Jason Mefford: If there’s things that you are curious about that, you know, again, maybe things like the the the neck thing or, you know, some of the chronic pain or some of the other things that you’re just like, I just want to know why.

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Jason Mefford: This is happening to me or why I keep getting in these patterns. This is one of the tools that can actually help you do it so

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kathygruver: It allows you to have patience and understanding and some empathy for others, knowing they’re doing the best they can with the tools they have

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Jason Mefford: Yeah.

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kathygruver: We’re all we’re all doing our best. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Love it. Okay.

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kathygruver: Well alright well

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kathygruver: This was a fabulous conversation. Thanks for for tuning in, everybody. I’m going to give a different website. This time, because if you want to do some past life regression, I can do that for you. It’s Healing Circle hypnotherapy calm.

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Jason Mefford: Healing Circle hypnotherapy calm. All right. Go out and yeah because I

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Jason Mefford: Haven’t done it yet, but we’re scheduling something here very soon for me to actually go through an experience that as well. So yeah, any final thoughts can

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kathygruver: Know, you know, just, I appreciate your listening as far. I know we thought we tossed out some ideas and some theories that maybe were

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kathygruver: You know, contrary to what you normally believe I appreciate you tuning in and listening and and doing that with an open mind and if you end up walking away from this going, I think it’s still bullshit. That’s awesome. I respect that to

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kathygruver: You know, we don’t all believe the same thing. We’ve all had different experiences. I just know from me doing this from the time I was

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kathygruver: Seems pretty damn real to me.

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kathygruver: It fits in with my philosophy of life. If it doesn’t fit in with your philosophy of life. That’s okay. But I appreciate you are listening with an open mind.

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Jason Mefford: Great. Well, with that, I guess it’s probably time for us to sign off a

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kathygruver: Time to sign off, how can people find you, Jason.

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Jason Mefford: They can find me at Jason method calm and so with that everybody go out, have a great week.

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Jason Mefford: And yeah, just know that you’re amazing and and we appreciate you listening to us and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcasts. See ya. See ya.

Have you ever felt grumpy over not having choices with certain things in life?
What if we told you that you have more agency than you think?
Today we discuss the fact that you always have choices available to you and when you make choices for yourself, you will lead a happier and more fulfilling life.

Listen in at: http://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/

Transcript

WEBVTT

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kathygruver: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Kathy gruver

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason Medford and today.

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Jason Mefford: I know I had to do that with my voice today.

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kathygruver: It was really a good show. So

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Jason Mefford: Well, there you go.

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Jason Mefford: Today we wanted to talk about something that is really pretty simple.

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Jason Mefford: But can have a profound impact in your life, and that is the word choice.

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Jason Mefford: Um,

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kathygruver: Okay, so

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Jason Mefford: How much of the time. Do you find yourself saying, oh, I have to do that. All I have to do that. Oh, I have to do that well.

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Jason Mefford: timeout. You have a choice in everything that you choose to do or that you choose not to do.

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Jason Mefford: Right. And we had a previous episode about

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Jason Mefford: You know, saying, yes, and every time that you say yes, you’re saying no to something else which also on the flip side, means when you say no to something you’re saying yes to something else, because it’s your choice.

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Jason Mefford: We’re going to dig a little deeper into that today.

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kathygruver: Yeah. And here’s what I hear people saying all the time. Well, I didn’t have a choice. It’s like, Sure you did. You absolutely had a choice.

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kathygruver: Or they look at their options and they don’t like any of them. So like we said before, we got on the show. It’s becomes, you know, picking the lesser of two evils.

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kathygruver: You know so many people say that with the election, it’s like, Oh, well I didn’t pick your i’d like either home I just pick the lesser of the two evils, you know,

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kathygruver: It’s like you have so many choices. And when we run into conflict or when we run into issues if nothing else, we always can change our mind.

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kathygruver: We always have the ability to choose to think differently, choose to have a different attitude choose to approach things differently. So even if you look at the menu and you go and you can change your change your viewpoint on what you’re looking at. So I love this conversation.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and this came up for me because, you know, again, I’m, I’m always doing self development myself. And one of the programs. I was going through one of the things that really hit me this week.

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Jason Mefford: Is that the point that choice is not deciding what’s in front of you.

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Jason Mefford: Right. And this is where it really can kind of get empowering. Right. It’s like

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Jason Mefford: You know, if I come to you and say, Kathy. I’ve got vanilla ice cream or I’ve got chocolate. Which one do you want

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kathygruver: I want mint chocolate chip.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, see. So there’s an example of choice right I presented two options, and most people. We just decide between the two thinking, well, I can only decide between vanilla, chocolate, but you choose to have mint chocolate chip.

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kathygruver: Right now, that might mean I have to go to a different store that might mean I leave that restaurant that might mean you know i and i agree with that so often we settle for things

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kathygruver: You know, I have had so many experiences with people in restaurants where they’re like, oh,

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kathygruver: It’s actually, I don’t really like this or a cocktail will be mixed for them or they’ll get a glass of wine and, you know, I’ve been out in restaurant. I am such a wine person.

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kathygruver: Where I go, oh, you know, this act. It’s okay. It’s actually not what I was looking for.

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kathygruver: So I say to the waitstaff, hey, you know what, actually, this is not really I don’t really like this. Is it possible to get something else.

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kathygruver: I have never had anybody give me slack about that they always go home. You’ve got absolutely what do you want

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kathygruver: They want you to have good experience. It’s not like they opened their last bottle of wine, personally, and now it’s a hassle for them. They’re there to

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kathygruver: Offer you these choices to give you choices. And you can also always say, Can I taste that first that’s okay choice to make, to

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kathygruver: So it’s like when you get outside of your sometimes your comfort zone and do that proverbial thinking outside the box. You realize you have more choices than you think.

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Jason Mefford: Well, we do. There’s always there’s never just. It’s never an either or right and and again you know what a lot of times we end up doing. Yes, there are consequences that come with our choices. Yeah, okay.

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Jason Mefford: But, but you have free will. You have the ability to choose what it is that you want to do. Now sometimes, you know, again, it’s

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Jason Mefford: You know, because you hear people say things like, oh, I have to call my mother, right, or, oh, I have to go to Thanksgiving dinner. Well, you don’t have to. Right. So again, you could choose not to go to Thanksgiving dinner. If you don’t want to

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Jason Mefford: Or might be consequences associated with that. But you can choose to do what you want. Now if you decide you still are going to go to Thanksgiving dinner right again we can tell ourselves these stories. So are you choosing

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Jason Mefford: To go to dinner or are you doing it begrudgingly right because that’s going to change your mental mindset.

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Jason Mefford: As far as the way that you’re thinking, you know, so you can go, oh, I have to go to Thanksgiving dinner. I hate it when Uncle Joe is there because he’s such a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Right.

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kathygruver: That shows a problem.

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Jason Mefford: Joe, Joe, Joe. Joe is always

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kathygruver: Face it, he’s

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Jason Mefford: Not even have an uncle joe but anyway.

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I’m sorry, very humble Joseph

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kathygruver: Crap, I heard. Yeah, first, first name that just hit me, but

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Jason Mefford: So you can you can you can, again, you know, you decide to go and you can hate the whole experience. Yeah. And you can be in a negative fun. Can you can feel like that. You don’t have any choice in the matter.

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Jason Mefford: Or again, you can switch it around and say, you know what I’m going to choose to go because of this right. This is my choice that I’m making. I’m going to make the best of it.

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Jason Mefford: Because really kind of the attitude that you go into it with is probably just as important as the choice that you’re actually making yourself.

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kathygruver: Absolutely. And because you’re choosing an attitude and the Thanksgiving thing. I mean, that’s so huge. And I have one client who

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kathygruver: Every year she spends Thanksgiving with her husband’s sister. She’s apparently a horrible cook. She doesn’t like any other food, she’s allergic to Turkey, so she can’t eat the actual meal anyway.

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kathygruver: And I’ve so many for so many years I hear her going on because we’re going to eat the food. And I said, well, but do you have to go. Yeah.

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kathygruver: I said, okay, but do you have to eat the food. Well, that would be rude if I didn’t need it. And I’m thinking,

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kathygruver: If somebody put something in front of me or offers me something that I don’t like I say, Oh, no, thank you. Or I’ll try a bite. And if I realize it’s not something that I like, I’m not going to eat it. I’m not a six year old. I don’t

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kathygruver: Have I don’t

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kathygruver: There’s no clean plate club, you’re not going to me.

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Jason Mefford: And frankly, oh yes, there is. My dad said there is a clean plate club. Well, my dad said a lot of things.

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kathygruver: ended up not really being quite right. So,

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kathygruver: You know, so, but it’s like if if somebody’s offended because I say I don’t like green beans. Okay, that’s on them. That is not my problem. You know, and I love green beans.

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kathygruver: I think people are so they don’t set boundaries. They don’t have find their voice, they don’t

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kathygruver: See a choice because they are so passive and what happens around them and not that everybody has to be dominant and like you know domineering and rude in any way.

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kathygruver: But there’s a way to say, oh, you know what I’m actually not a fan of peace, so I’m gonna pass on those or don’t even bring it up.

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kathygruver: Like don’t say anything, and just don’t have them. I don’t think the host is literally looking at everybody’s plate to see if they had

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kathygruver: All the meat, you know, so it’s just I don’t know i i think i have a different attitude about this. And a lot of people and that I just, I’m not going to do things. I don’t want to do typically

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Jason Mefford: Just when we do right

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Jason Mefford: And, you know, again, like let’s take the will take this dinner example I guess we’re talking about dinner tonight sort of animals. Right. But we talked about a turkey.

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Jason Mefford: Turkey. Turkey go

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kathygruver: Uncle Joe

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Jason Mefford: Joe, Joe. But, you know, and this is again to wear a lot of times you know the anxiety that comes into choosing because you know you know like that, like you said, you know, I’m

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Jason Mefford: I’m allergic to the turkey. But if I don’t eat the turkey, then you’re telling yourself some story about all that’s rude. Right. So first off, that’s probably a false story.

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Jason Mefford: Know if you’re allergic to something and you choose not to eat it. It’s not that you’re rude.

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Jason Mefford: It’s actually smart for your body. It has nothing to do with being rude, it would actually be rude for somebody to try to force you to eat something that

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Jason Mefford: You’re allergic to

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Jason Mefford: Right. But a lot of times you know when when when we get to that point when we can actually choose either. We’re so anxious about things that probably will never happen.

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Jason Mefford: And so out of fear we choose to do something that we don’t necessarily want to do. Or, on the flip side, what happens so much of the time, too, is we’re afraid.

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Jason Mefford: To choose because that means there’s going to be consequences. And so a lot of people, you know, go through live without ever really choosing their just deciding and letting life happen to them instead of actually choosing what they want from life.

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kathygruver: Yeah, and you know, I grew up with this concept of getting in trouble.

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kathygruver: And there are still certain things that I don’t do for fear of getting in trouble.

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kathygruver: And it popped up back in June, the, you know, we graduated high school and I had a huge graduating class. I think we had like 1200 people in my graduating class or some gigantic number

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kathygruver: And it was sent out to everybody that if you through your cap in the air like you do when you graduate, that you were going to get suspended, they were going to withhold your diploma or like whatever it was.

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kathygruver: But here’s 1200 people who are wailing their caps up in the air, and I still had this feeling of, oh, they send out this memo that I shouldn’t do that because I’m gonna get in trouble. So I literally kind of went, yeah.

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kathygruver: Just like a bike. Keep an eye on it.

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kathygruver: Suspended the entire graduating class, you know,

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kathygruver: It was with that. But I had this drilled in my head that there was this permanent record. I thought into like my adult life.

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kathygruver: To go on your permanent record. I thought shit.

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kathygruver: You know, I’m going to apply for a job at 60 and there to be like, you know, you didn’t do very good on chemistry. And I’m like,

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Jason Mefford: Well, I need to you through your cap during graduate. So we’re not gonna be able to hire

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kathygruver: Call Uncle Joe. He’s a great reference

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kathygruver: But it’s like I think we do. We have these these misperceptions and these old

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kathygruver: Records that run in our head that you know you’re going to get in trouble, nice girls don’t do that. Boys Don’t Cry. I mean, it’s like, you know, we

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kathygruver: These stories that we tell ourselves are limiting our choices. And I don’t know that that’s healthy. I mean, you don’t you know I don’t know I just feel like we need to drop some of those old stories.

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kathygruver: And look at the reality of now and stay in this present moment and know that you have choices. And again, you can always change your mind. That’s the biggest choice we have

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Jason Mefford: Well, it is. And I think that’s why to, you know,

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Jason Mefford: There’s a thing called midlife crisis right and and i think you know a lot of people that I’ve seen. I kind of went through part of it too, right, is, is you know until you finally don’t give a fuck. And then it goes away. Right.

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Jason Mefford: But a lot of times I think those those feelings or five people get to that point.

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Jason Mefford: Because they’ve lived the first half of their life.

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Jason Mefford: Making decisions that they wish they hadn’t made that if they had been conscious and present as they were making those choices they wouldn’t have decided the same things. Yeah. So all of a sudden you wake up and you go, Man, I’m halfway through my life and I’m not where I want to be.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah i. And so again, you know, kind of with choices, making sure that every choice that we make is getting us closer to where we want to be. And having that clarity on you know what it is that we want out of life and then making more choices.

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Jason Mefford: To help us get that

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Jason Mefford: Down again. Sometimes those choices are going to have consequences.

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Jason Mefford: But do you want to get to where you want to get or do you want to wake up halfway through your life with a midlife crisis.

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kathygruver: Right, and I think so much of that a societal so much of that is parental so much of that is religious.

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kathygruver: It, you know, I was raised in a household where you go to college, period. That’s the end of the story. You go to college.

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kathygruver: And when I told my dad. I wanted to go straight to Los Angeles and go to American Academy of Dramatic Arts, which was a two year performing arts program. He said, No.

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kathygruver: He goes, you can go, but I’m not paying for you. I want you to have a four year degree and you know There’s part of me that thinks, God will what would have happened had I left home at 18

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kathygruver: Driven to Los Angeles and gone straight to that program as opposed to four years at Point Park. Now, other things unfolded from that.

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kathygruver: But, you know, there’s this obligation to family. There’s an obligation to these these things that we so often do, and I will share a quick story. So I had a client when I was doing my PhD.

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kathygruver: I had a client who was doing a PhD program at UCSB in psychology. Now the psychology program at UCSB is not clinical so much. It’s more research based. It’s not like I’m going to counsel later.

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kathygruver: And I was talking to this client and we’re talking about PhDs and you know she’s 22 and I’m 40 or whatever it was. And she said, God, it must be so nice to be in a PhD program that you like.

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Jason Mefford: And I said, what

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kathygruver: And she said, well don’t you like psychology and she goes, No, actually I really don’t. I said that. Oh my god, why are you in a like post graduate like huge

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kathygruver: Read. Like, why are you in this program. And she said, my parents made me and now here’s this 2223 year old whose parents made her get a PhD.

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kathygruver: And I’m like, oh my god. That sounds horrible. And I said, Okay. Well, let me ask you this. I said, Well, what, what do you want to do.

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kathygruver: And she said, Oh, this sounds stupid. And I said, No, nothing to me sounds stupid. What do you want to do. She said, I kind of want to be a baker.

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kathygruver: And I went, oh my god, that’s awesome. I said, well, have you ever worked in a bakery.

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kathygruver: And she said, no, but I just I you know I love baking and I love cooking and I just think it would be so great. Like, you know, I want to start my own bakery and I want to supply food for homeless. I mean like shoot this great idea.

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kathygruver: And I went, Okay, I have an assignment for you. She goes, okay, because it was. We’re just about approaching summer. And I said, do you get a summer job. She goes, yeah, my parents make me

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Jason Mefford: Okay, great. I’ve seen a trend right here.

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kathygruver: Yeah. And I said, I want you to work in a bakery over the summer. I said, even if it’s a week internship, even if you spend an afternoon there call the local bakeries and say,

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kathygruver: I’m considering this. Will you let me do it. And she goes, What a great idea. I said, because that will, you’ll know

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kathygruver: If that’s truly what you want to do. She goes away. I don’t see her for months she comes back like six months later.

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kathygruver: And she goes, Kathy, I have to tell you you changed my life. Which. That’s the greatest thing to hear. Right. And I said, oh my God, what happened. She goes, Well, I got a job in a bakery this summer.

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kathygruver: And I worked there for six weeks over summer break, and I said, Oh my God, how was it and she said, I fucking hated every second of it.

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kathygruver: And I went

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Jason Mefford: Yeah.

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kathygruver: Because now, she doesn’t have to wonder

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kathygruver: Yeah, she really, she liked baking for fun. She actually ended and entered like some baking contest on the Food Channel and one SOME PRIZE I mean look like. So she realized she wanted to do psychology

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kathygruver: She ended up continuing that program. She now works with youth who has eating disorders because she herself had an eating disorder.

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kathygruver: And it’s like she has this amazing career and she bakes for fun. She never would she would have wondered forever if she made the right choice had she not experienced that summer so it’s like take those moments take those choices. Look at your options.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah well and you know her story is what we hear from so many different people. Right. My parents are making me do it. My parents are making me do it.

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Jason Mefford: Your parents don’t make you do anything right. It’s, it’s still your choice. You’re still deciding to do that. And so, you know, again, if you’re not happy where you’re at, then some of it might have to do with the decisions you’re making that you’re actually making decisions, instead of choosing

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kathygruver: Yeah, well, and so much of that comes from fear. I’m reading a book right now on

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kathygruver: Staying and relationships are leaving relationships, specifically with a narcissist because I have a lot of clients dealing with narcissistic partners.

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kathygruver: And it’s not an easy decision to make. I mean you and I are both divorced. We know how hard that decision is, you know, so it’s not always easy. And there are consequences.

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kathygruver: If I leave, what will happen, kind of thing and an exercise I put my clients through

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kathygruver: Typically with coaching is all say what is the best outcome of you staying in this situation.

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kathygruver: What is the worst outcome of you staying in this situation, what is the best outcome of you leaving. What is the worst outcome of you leaving. And we actually make these lists.

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kathygruver: And so we end up with the square of these lists of things all be, you know, I won’t have as much money. I’ll have to leave the house. The kids will be split up, you know, whatever it is.

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kathygruver: And then see which one of those when you have the information which one of those feels best to you because there’s consequences to every action and not taking action is taking action itself.

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Jason Mefford: It is it is

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Jason Mefford: So, yes. So, you know, don’t, don’t just make decisions, but actually think about and choose because again.

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Jason Mefford: Choosing is not the same as deciding between the options that are in front of you. If you want a different life. The only way you’re going to get there is to actually start consciously choosing and doing things different.

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kathygruver: And be brave.

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Jason Mefford: Be brave, because it does. It does. It does take courage, because again, just like you know you do with your clients when you go through and do some of those assessments. What’s the best that can happen. What’s the worst that can happen sometimes the worst things are kind of scary.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, you know, but but everybody that I’ve seen that’s had the courage to choose and do what they really believe that they need to do and where they want to get to in life.

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Jason Mefford: Even though there’s pain in the middle, you come out on the other side exactly where you need to be. So keep making changes or choices that will get you closer and closer and closer to where you actually want to be

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kathygruver: Absolutely. Cool. Oh, I love this conversation as all of them. Alright, so go out shoes.

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kathygruver: Let’s go get some mint chocolate chip ice cream because

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Jason Mefford: We’re gonna

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kathygruver: Add a little early, but that’s okay. And yeah, be brave, with your choices. I’m Kathy Gruber. I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out. Choose wisely and have the best life that you can. We’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcasts. See ya.

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kathygruver: See ya.