What if you had a crystal ball that could help predict what is coming in 2020? Would it make your life or business easier to plan for and navigate? Of course it would.

Due to huge demand, we are bringing you this episode as an encore. If you already listened, this is one you should listen to again. If you missed it the first time, you will thank us for bringing it to you again.

We are joined again by our favorite full service oracle / astrologer, Jeanne Mozier to give us a preview of what’s still to come in 2019 (and there is some big news about this next week you don’t want to miss) and what we have to look forward to in 2020.

Think of it as your weather forecast to help you prepare for what is to come.

Each year Jeanne gives a 2 hour speech explaining what she sees coming by reading the stars, and we are lucky to have her give us a preview of what she will be discussing during her speech on 10 December.

To get a copy of Jeanne’s 2 hour oracle speech detailing out 2020 and beyond, visit her website: https://www.starwv.com/ where you can purchase a CD of her talk.

#fireandearthpodcast #astrology #2020predictions

Transcript

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Kathy Gruver: Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the fire and earth Podcast. I am your co host Kathy gruver

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason Medford, and today we have another exciting episode for you because there are some things that are about to change. And so we have back Jeannie Mosher thank you for joining us. Jamie

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star: Always a pleasure to hang with you guys.

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Kathy Gruver: So you told us that some big things were happening and you’re going to kind of get us set up or what’s going on in 2020. I can’t believe it’s been a year since we had you on

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star: Your

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, cuz about 2019 last year and

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Kathy Gruver: I’m

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Kathy Gruver: Coming to a frickin close. I don’t know where that happened.

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Kathy Gruver: Explain to me why time is speeding up. That would be a good thing. So yeah, so you said a lot of stuff was happening. So we’re going to turn it over to you and

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Kathy Gruver: Why don’t you give us a quick a quick background on who you are. Well, we’ll put a link to your other episode and then we’ll dive into what’s going on because apparently it’s pretty heavy.

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star: Okay. Well, I like to build myself as a full service Oracle because not only do I read the stars, but I also do runes and cards and

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star: Other things like that. And that’s sort of my magical life. And then I have a real life as as an author and as an arts activist here and fabulous Berkeley springs, West Virginia.

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star: And I’m now a retired movie theater owner

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star: For the first time in 42 years jack and I have weekends to do what normal people do.

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Kathy Gruver: Normal people. What do you do on a weekend of your normal because I don’t know.

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star: What you probably wouldn’t be serving popcorn.

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star: People, but it’s been great. Anyway, every year for the past since 1977 so 42 years I have been doing what I call my Oracle’s talk and I look at the year to come

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star: The past couple of years, I have been threatening not to do it anymore because the news was hard and I didn’t want people blaming me since I’m only the interpreter

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star: I don’t write the script. So here we are, we’re in 22 we’re getting ready to enter 2020 as it turns out, the big some of the big issues that will face in 2020 actually start on December 3 2020 is going to be a heavy earth year

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star: In astrology. That means practical conservative restrictive.

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star: Inflexible

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star: And the pile up starts in earnest. On December 3 when the planet Jupiter moves into Capricorn joining Saturn and Pluto already there.

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star: Historically, and in this case historic means every single time that Jupiter and Saturn are together in Capricorn. There is an economic crisis.

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star: So I think that, you know, there’s no doubt it’s inevitable when it happens every time.

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star: It’s hard to argue with it. And that’s what really starts happening on December 3 and I thought it was interesting and people may notice how in the past several weeks. A lot of the

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star: Big retail operations have been saying, Oh, we’re going to have black friday sales early and it’s like a high, you better be.

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star: AFTER DECEMBER 3 everybody’s going to be pulling in everybody’s going to be sensing that limitation and deciding that, well, maybe they ought to think twice before they ought to go out there and spend more money and

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star: Other parts of the other things happening in the year so so that December 3 sets it up and that difficult period is going to be continuing through at least the end of March, and then there’s a brief period of light comes back again through the summer till the end of the year, the only

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star: I felt optimistic when I looked at the end of the year, and saw that what was going to be happening. Starting in December of 2020

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star: For the next couple of years, is we are going to be entering a progressive period and expanse of period, a period where we’re going to be devoted to universal concepts inclusive concepts concepts of equality. We just have to survive.

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star: You survived run a journey to get there.

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Jason Mefford: In Geneva let

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Jason Mefford: Me ask you a question on that because you know what, because you’re you’re talking about now the the December 3 date. And I was thinking of when we talked before wasn’t there. They’re kind of the January like 11th, 12th area so has

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Jason Mefford: Has that timing kind of moved up because because everything is aligning sooner than we expected or

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Jason Mefford: Is there kind of two different event.

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star: Kind of things to be worried occasion we will talk about that January.

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Jason Mefford: OK, OK. I just didn’t know if it was okay.

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star: That’s just a real dramatic thing.

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star: But, but the the the year long economic slide begins in December. And since it’s happening. Just a couple weeks from now. I think people need to know

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star: So to

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Kathy Gruver: That point Jeannie I guess the question is, is it simply a matter of don’t spend all your money right now because maybe not more is coming as a matter of buy more stocks as a matter of, like, what, what

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Stocks

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Kathy Gruver: Stocks

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Kathy Gruver: I would not fall. Okay.

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Jason Mefford: probably sell before the third

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star: I would say the solution is to become to get through this period is to become more frugal

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star: One of the big issues through the year is going to be waste management.

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star: Interesting and you know I’ve always thought it was interesting that there were cultures where people lived off of waste dumps and what was in them.

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star: And I had someone at a lecture I gave recently say, well, my husband designed storage units. What do you think is going to happen with storage units, I said.

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star: I think people are probably going to start living off of what they’ve put in their storage units, if not living in the storage units directly

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star: So, you know, and there are key periods that we’ll talk about in a couple of minutes. But generally, the year is not going to be an expansive one. It’s also not going to be a particular into particularly intimate one

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star: There’s only one planet in water. So emotions are not powerful and there is, there are none of the outer planets are in a fire sign, which means that inspiration and energy in general are lacking through the entire year.

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Kathy Gruver: And

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star: It’s going to contribute to people feeling boxed in

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star: There are lots of planets in retrograde throughout the year. So movement forward is very limited. And in fact, there are only two months of time in the entire year were no planets are retrograde that’s very rare.

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star: And there are also three major conjunctions in the outer planets another rare experience and generally that marks the end of an old cycle and the beginning of a new cycle.

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star: There is no doubt that 2020 is a crucial year lots of endings. And fortunately, by the end of the year, lots of beginnings. So the old order ends by the end of 2020

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star: Everything points to tremendous changes in attitudes and direction.

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star: And the new world is pretty much unrecognizable from where we’re standing right now.

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Kathy Gruver: So I’m going to ask the question that every single person listening is thinking, does that mean Trump’s getting out of office.

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star: My personal analysis of a variety of charts is yes he’s out of office and primarily because the trend changes.

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star: When we have a trend that’s moving to progressive shorter place. I mean, they don’t fit and you can’t succeed when you’re out of sync with a cosmic trend. Sorry, people can say what they want, but it doesn’t work the stars always win.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, okay. So I just, you had posted something on Facebook when when not to keep bringing politics in this, but I thought this was fascinating.

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Kathy Gruver: When better Rourke announced his candidacy. And then he subsequently dropped out. You had a really good point about that tell us what that was, because that’s a perfect example.

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star: Well, it’s a perfect example candidates not using astrologers, so he declared

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star: A time when Mercury was retrograde that happens about three times a year for around three weeks each. And during those periods.

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star: Things don’t move forward. Well, and anything you start during those periods, need to be needs to be redone.

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star: And if I had had his email address, I would have said beta drop out right away and wait till a better time to re enter. But I think he’s just gone. And it was interesting.

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star: To see Michael Bloomberg who probably does have an astrologer picked a much better day to declare that he was entering the race.

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star: Kamala Harris is another one who picked a bad time to declare and

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star: She declared on an eclipse, which means you know there’s this there’s like intense periods and then nothing and then intense periods and then nothing. So again, it’s certainly not what as as an astrologer, what I would have picked

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star: And here’s an interesting little anecdote in 20 no in 1999 yeah because the election was in 2000 I was contacted by someone ON THE GORE CAMPAIGN and said, Will you pick a date for us to declare and I did. And then the Bush campaign picked the day before.

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star: I thought okay, well that was obviously a good pic but not quite good enough.

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Kathy Gruver: All the hanging chads and that anyway. Okay. So I just put because I remember you throwing that thing in there about better work. And I thought, you know, that’s an interesting example to bring up so

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Kathy Gruver: Alright, moving forward. So we’ve got a year of endings which I had enough endings. I don’t want any more endings and I’m a Capricorn so apparently I’m getting pounded with it all. Yes.

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star: Well, yes, but then there are the people who don’t fit in at all. You know, this is still your year so austerity, a lot of austerity and a lot of these dramatic changes and people can’t hold on. They need to let things go they need to let old structures go

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star: And again, don’t expect to recognize the world as it turned out, be

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star: By the end of the year.

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star: Um, alright, let’s see. So I’m one of the problems with Capricorn is that it really encouraged encourages repression.

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star: And we have a lot of fear setting in. And this is going to happen if the economy goes south, people are going to be afraid. And what government does what authority does during those times is to set limitations.

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star: To help people not be afraid. So, you know, we’re going to see the walls closing in, and I always think when I every time I say that I think about the scene in Star Wars where they get thrown in the trash dump and the wall.

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star: That’s what it’s going to feel like

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star: Lots of rules. Lots of authority economic prices, it’s, it’s a serious reality check hardships deprivation. And one of the things I would say is really important is to know your neighbors so that when push comes to shove, you’re going to have people around you who can help. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: So building that support system and those relationships, which is something Jason I talk about frequently. So, okay.

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Kathy Gruver: Making sure you’re surrounded by a team.

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star: Yes, yes.

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star: Um, let me take a brief moment to talk about the wall. And that’s because

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star: Saturn and capital screams wall.

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star: And one of the things that astrology does very well is examines timing. So

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star: In 1961 the Berlin Wall went up Saturn was in Capricorn in 1989 the Berlin Wall came down Saturn was in Capricorn.

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star: Here we are back again Saturn is in Capricorn people are talking about a wall. However, Saturn leaves Capricorn. By the end of 2020 and the wall will disappear.

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star: So there we have. That’s how I feel about ball wall.

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Jason Mefford: So that almost that actually with with all of the other turmoil and other things that are going on, chances are politically, economically, all that stuff won’t be able to probably get in place during 2020 and then it’ll just kind of get dropped right

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star: Yes, I would say, you know, the, the real struggle.

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star: And this is what happens continually when things get rocky authority clamps down, which is always the worst path to take.

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star: And that’s what we’re. That’s what we’re going to see. Yeah, in spite of. In addition, I guess, to all of this.

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star: Our friend Neptune is still in Pisces. This has been going on since 2012 2012 2014 2014 and Neptune is the planet of illusion.

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star: And lies and assembling as well as having a high spiritual sign side. But at this point, it seems to be wallowing in his lower self. And so we’ve had we’ve had this epidemic of fake news of everything being real nothing being real.

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star: Have weak psychological boundaries of every time I hear about another mass shooting and I hear them say, Oh, we can’t imagine what the motive could be. I want to say, I know, I know. Demons are afloat.

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star: And negative psychic forces have basically hacked in to humanity and are picking off the week and putting these thoughts into their heads because boundaries are dissolving

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star: And Neptune unfortunately remains in place all year. And in fact remains in place until 2021 of the other crucial Neptune issues is addiction.

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star: Addiction is once again a lot of boundaries dissolving being possessed.

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star: And it’s

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star: It doesn’t matter what’s going to be done. It’s not going to be resolved until 2025

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star: And my personal policy my policy recommendation if I were running for president.

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star: Would be that you know I asked a friend. I said, Where’s all this money going that these drug companies are paying

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star: In fines and, you know, where, where does that money go and nobody seems to be able to answer that question.

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star: But I think that a portion of it should absolutely be allocated to research into non addictive pain.

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star: Solutions because so many people get sucked into the whole OBO thing because of pain, no product pain is a horrible thing. What do you do somebody hands you this little pill and says, Here, take this this movement.

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Kathy Gruver: And it solves the problem. And there are certainly a place for pain meds, but I mean as a hypnotherapist hypnosis acupuncture massage meditation. I mean, there’s breath work. There’s tons of

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Kathy Gruver: Other

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, talk about for non addictive stuff. But that’s a whole nother show yeah the addiction thing is

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star: So that that keeps happening. And these are these are long cycles, you know, these are cycles that began like the cycle, we’re just finishing up with Neptune began in 1862 here we are finally finishing it up.

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star: So homelessness continues to be a major issue and in California. You are all

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star: changing face of homelessness. Yeah, people are being burned out of million dollar homes, you know, then what happens, how do you address that.

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star: And that, that’s all part of the restriction limitation. The fruitfulness the people you know, wanting to be have a simpler life earth based economies.

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star: Now one of the really interesting things that goes along with all this Capricorn and all of these other limiting

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star: Energies is that people are going to begin to demand morality in their government morality in their financial institutions morality into the people who claim that they should be allowed to govern and Heaven only knows, that would be a wonderful

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star: Free People need to demand it and contraction in the economy will make that easier to do.

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Kathy Gruver: Do you have a field Jeannie have, I mean as the as the

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Kathy Gruver: Hack of democrats narrows. Do you have a feel from an astrological perspective of who might come out on top of this.

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star: I really don’t. I look at them and I think

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star: I, you know, I’d vote I vote for my couch before

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Jason Mefford: For some of them.

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star: Now the bride vote for Donald Trump.

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Jason Mefford: Oh, wow. Good.

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Kathy Gruver: For, you know,

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star: Of those folks I know one shows me what I think is needed, yet I say that I don’t know if that means somebody’s going to break out of the pack. If that means that there’s going to be somebody years

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star: But feeling my body deteriorates

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star: I want to say, why would anybody over 70 even want the job.

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Kathy Gruver: That’s insane people. Why would anybody want the job.

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Kathy Gruver: Exactly.

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Jason Mefford: That’s my point.

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star: That’s true. Well, you know,

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star: I there are people who want to change the world. And the way to do it and maybe they’re right although I’ve just been reading sort of reading about Watergate. It’s like nothing you

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Kathy Gruver: Know, it doesn’t. I mean, I watched a special on Watergate and I kept turning to Michael and going. This is the exact same thing. And he’s like, I know you know it’s like, what do we see what are we not learning from the others anyway.

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star: So back to our January.

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star: 10 wealth period because that’s really a crucial time

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Kathy Gruver: Oh no. Okay, that’s my birthday weekend. Okay.

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star: birthday weekend.

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Kathy Gruver: Well, my birthday is the six but we’re having a big blow up in Vegas. The 10th through the 12th. Oh shit. Okay, good.

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star: Oh, okay. Um, what we have them is a conjunction a coming together of Saturn and Pluto in Capricorn.

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star: And this happens only once this year. Very often, big aspects happen three times as they move forward move backwards.

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star: This particular aspect has only happened six times since 450 bc six times. The last time it happened was 500 years ago. So we’re going to have this major force come into being. For the first time in 500 years

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star: It’s, you know, it’s, it’s going to be hard, it slows everything down. It concentrates experiences the hand and destiny comes into being.

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star: People everybody’s going to feel persecuted and I just love it. Sometimes I see these you know photographs of some billionaire crying because they may raises taxes and I think everybody everybody thinks to being person.

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star: Come on, get serious. So this happens you know and and these are evolutionary forces, what we’re going through is an evolutionary force and light time evolution only moves in one direction forward.

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star: And there is no stopping it. And when you try to repress an evolutionary force it all blows up and all the old stuff gets totally destroyed and you have chaos and that’s a whole lot worse then you got to clean it up and you know it’s really

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star: So,

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star: So anyway, what I like to do is look at

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star: The historical patterns of 500 years ago, the last time this aspect happened was in 1520 I looked at all the things that occurred in 1520 and there were a lot of, you know, changes and

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star: Key genes, but here.

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Jason Mefford: Are the big things.

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star: Here’s what I think was the biggest thing that happened in 1520 was that chocolate made it to Europe from the Aztecs. So here we have five

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Jason Mefford: Well,

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Jason Mefford: That’s a good thing. That’s a very good thing.

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Kathy Gruver: I should have chocolate for my birthday.

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star: Yeah, definitely. Definitely Maybe a big life size chocolate Cathy. Oh.

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Kathy Gruver: Jason good on that.

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Kathy Gruver: I want to like chocolate coffee.

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Jason Mefford: And, you know, around that same time to. I mean, I don’t have the dates in my head as well. But, you know, is around that time.

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Jason Mefford: That I believe that the printing press actually kind of came, came about, around, around that time and it really kind of started that time period really started the beginning of the Renaissance. Yes. And in Europe.

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Jason Mefford: So, you know, again, even though, you know, like you said, kind of the Middle Ages, or medieval times were kind of cast aside and it became a more expansive or the beginning of a new expansive period but effectively we could be entering into a new Renaissance as humans on the planet.

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star: Kind of going right.

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Jason Mefford: Once we get once we get through it once again.

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star: We still here.

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Yeah.

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star: So the other sort of really interesting factoid, is that that particular aspect of Saturn Pluto aspect and several other through others through the year happen at 22 degrees.

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star: Now it happens at 22 degrees Capricorn but 22 is the key number here. And anyone who does numerology knows 22 is the ultimate number. So we see this number reappearing through out the year and it’s an end. If you look at

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star: And you take out the two zeros. What do you end up with 22

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star: And so it’s it’s very universal. It has a very universal outlook it benefits mankind. It’s a builder energy absolute honesty very constructive so

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star: Energy permeates the year in a number of ways. So think about that when you see when you hear 22 you’ll know it’s destiny speaking in 2024

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star: Okay. One of the other interesting maybe economic ish crises point comes on April 4

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star: When not only is there another one of these major aspects, this time Jupiter conjunct Pluto, but it’s also crisis in the astrological chart of the Federal Reserve Bank. So, something will happen, something will happen on April 4

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star: It will be, you know, some sort of conflict with authority something technological there will really be no way of knowing what actually happened but

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star: Seeds of healing will occur will be planted during that period.

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star: And then I let me get the date the date is, I think,

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star: Late March.

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star: Late March of 2020 See I keep

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star: I keep 2020

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star: K for him.

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star: So I could unfold it so

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star: This and go into so Saturn goes into Aquarius which breaks this Capricorn log jam, which introduces some of this progressive energy, which becomes the major force by the end of the year that occurs on March 21 which is two days after

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Kathy Gruver: Spring Equinox

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star: during spring equinox spring equinox is on the 19th late night 19th. So there’s this new force that enters and it stays for a couple of months.

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star: And all the Capricorn comes back again until the end of the year. So we should look. It’ll be interesting to see how the political scene changes over a couple of months in the spring when the energy shifts and attitudes shift.

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star: And then you’re going to receive and returned again.

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star: So,

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Kathy Gruver: I’m exhausted.

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Jason Mefford: I know you’re taking notes and like

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Kathy Gruver: And and for anybody who is listening to this, God does this amazing recording that you can buy.

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Kathy Gruver: Me $5 on your website or something that tells you everything. So if you’re not getting every word she saying

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Kathy Gruver: Monica.

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Jason Mefford: Monica.

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star: You our talk, I’ll be recording it on December 10

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Kathy Gruver: So good be available for sale.

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star: So yeah, so Saturn is in Aquarius for march through July and then again at the end of the year.

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star: And it’s interesting because the previous times and then it goes through 21 and 22 so it doesn’t go away instantly and the previous times or 1932 to 3519 6264 1991 to 94, all of which were very nice years lots of things move forward. So that was once I saw that it made me feel better.

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star: Like okay, it won’t be so terrible.

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star: So, so I

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Jason Mefford: Mean

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Jason Mefford: To me, like you said before. I mean, a lot of this stuff has to go away to make room for the new

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Jason Mefford: And then I mean that’s as human nature, you know, we don’t like change because we’re afraid of losing or something new, but it’s again, like you said, it’s, it’s this evolutionary process. It’s, it’s, yes. What has to happen. We have to go through that period of loss in order to gain again.

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star: And and that I believe is really why Trump appeared on the scene.

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star: There needed to be this wiping away of the own forms and it took somebody who was totally non cognizant

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star: Of what those words word why they existed in order to wipe it clean.

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Kathy Gruver: Your wife don’t

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star: Really keep going in this direction because they weren’t all bad, there were reasons for protocol, there were reasons for these forms.

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star: So, you know, people have now seen things break down and we’ll be able to rebuild them and on the economic scene Aquarius really promises a fairer economic structure more equality. So, you know, I think that’s a good thing.

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star: Yeah, I’m one of the things I do not see when I look at the charts of the Constitution and the giants of the Declaration of Independence.

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star: Which are the charts that astrologers look at to talk about what’s happening in the country. I don’t see this civil war, the right wing crazies are saying this is what’s going to happen if they get rid of drop. You know, so like, No, I don’t think so. SORRY GUY. Is it just is it in the stars.

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star: And today, I mean right now about all I can believe in are the stars. You know, they don’t lie, nobody makes fake news out of what Pluto and Saturn are doing

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star: So big money continues to be under attack independent women continue to gain power homelessness exactly homelessness continues as a major issue and one of the new the new trends is this whole obsession with reducing waste with us management with streamlining everything

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star: We should speak briefly about fashion because we know how important fashion is. And one of the things we’re going to see our fashion trends that reflect a tremendous consciousness of your status. Now, the fact is, people have different states.

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star: Don’t people want their status to be oh I’m concerned about waste. So I shop at secondhand stores or I dress simply some people want their status to reflect. I can afford brand names and expensive brand names.

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star: So people are going to be wearing their status repurpose thing is going to be very important on every level, we will have bouts of reared, particularly during that Saturn in Aquarius people period in the spring, the mineral kingdom will be very important jewels.

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Kathy Gruver: Are

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star: rare metals gold. So people say, well, you mean we should go out and buy gold. I said, Yeah, but by little bitty pieces.

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star: So you can have change.

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star: What are you going to trade that for

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Jason Mefford: It’s interesting, you know, because I mean we’re here, we’re talking about, obviously the astrological side of it.

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Jason Mefford: But economically, right, that’s my bad, my business background. I mean, again, a lot of these things. We’re seeing economically.

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Jason Mefford: And so just like you said in a period when if everything hits the fan stock market crashes gold goes up, it always does. Yes. Right. Because again, people move their money from

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Jason Mefford: You know, the, the either commodities market or the stock market into something like gold. So, it totally makes sense. But yeah, by the by the by the thin stuff, not the stuff around your neck.

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star: Well, that’s another one of those historic realities is in this

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star: Period, or maybe even earlier. One of the earlier parts of the cycle. The Venice, which was at that time, sort of the commercial center of the world.

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star: Invented gold nuggets that dominated European currency for 600 years. So it’s like okay, we can go out, make gold buckets. And so people say, well, well, what about alternative currencies like

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star: I don’t know. I don’t understand. I don’t get alternative currencies and I feel confident that if I’m sitting there and I wave $100 bill or I wave a Bitcoin whatever Bitcoin looks like people are going to go for that hundred dollar

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star: So I don’t know what to say about alternative currencies, um,

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star: The other thing are that that’s going to be big this year are unicorns. So you can take your unicorn out of the basement and put it in the backyard, because it’s not

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star: Popular. I don’t know what that means but unicorns are gonna be hot this year.

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star: And then, of course, chocolate, as we know, in the health arena.

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Jason Mefford: You go

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star: To court.

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Kathy Gruver: Chocolate balls.

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Kathy Gruver: It walks around and it was, and then it poops. It will chocolate poopy balls.

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star: Well market that Kathy.

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Kathy Gruver: Somehow, I don’t think I invented it, but I happen to have one. So, yeah, okay.

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Jason Mefford: You never

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star: So health. We already talked about the whole addiction seen

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star: Health issues will be very Capricorn Ian, which is tightness arthritis crystallization. And in one of the earlier historic periods that is that similar to this one.

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star: The it was discovered that electrical impulses. What is it that that electrical impulse nerve that nervous in the elected. What was discovered was the electrical nature of nervous impulses. So I think we may see electricity being used in addiction treatment and arthritis treatments.

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star: You know, if I may. And of course, acupuncture is very oriented to move electrical energy around

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Jason Mefford: In the books. It’s interesting because I actually just saw somebody made reference to this, this new device. It’s effectively like a Tesla coil like that Nikola Tesla came up with.

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Jason Mefford: But it’s a home appliance that you can actually use to help change and use elect the electricity to be able to change the energy flow in your body as well. So again, that kind of goes right along with this of there’s already an appliance out there for it.

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star: And

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Jason Mefford: There’s times when there’s tons of it, you know.

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Jason Mefford: But it’s starting to come. It’s starting to come out now and again just

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Jason Mefford: Lines right up with what we’re talking about.

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star: Yes, and I think they just think I just saw something they were doing at WVU in that same

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Kathy Gruver: I believe that, I believe. Okay.

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star: Um, now, right. So what else do we have here, natural disasters continue

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star: Natural disasters, you know, and you will remember last year, we talked about natural disasters and how they were going to become a big trend and this continues for at least another five years.

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star: And this is going to contribute to the economic issue because somehow it’s like I’m sorry, why aren’t their insurance companies going bankrupt left and right, with all these natural disasters and so I did a little peripheral very

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star: Very skimming research online and two things happen. One is that insurance companies are heavily invested in the stock market.

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star: So they’re making a lot of money right now because the stock market is going up and they benefited tremendously from the Trump tax cut. I didn’t know insurance companies were middle class people but

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Kathy Gruver: I suspected. I thought they were

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star: So they’re making. They are going bankrupt and collapsing, not because they’re not losing money on their core business. But because we’re making money. Other places and that insurance losses over the past year.

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star: Were up 56%. Can you imagine if your business loss was up 50% so that’s going to be contribute to this.

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star: Economic crisis.

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Jason Mefford: Well, yeah, because especially when their assets from the stock market investments.

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Jason Mefford: When those greater

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, they’re going to become insolvent. So we saw the same thing with pension funds.

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Jason Mefford: when when when the, when the stock market crash to, you know, in 2002

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Jason Mefford: Most people because again the pension plans, just like the insurance companies were making all this money on the market.

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Jason Mefford: But now that when that when they

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Jason Mefford: Lost that and the payouts came they ended up becoming insolvent. So we’re going to see that again with a, with an economic downturn.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, well,

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Kathy Gruver: So I probably have just a little like five or six more minutes. So

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star: Okay, five or six more minutes. All right. We already talked about the politics.

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star: Probably the country that will be affected the most by a lot of this because of is in there is China, both in the financial and and conflict.

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star: Will also see conflict in Syria and Saudi Arabia, Guatemala and Singapore Mexico and Mexico City. Both have historic links to period like this.

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star: The people, the American people are you know what they want. They want things to be better. They want candidates that function on a high moral level they want them to be sane and reasonable and acknowledge the tightening of the situation and avoid fanaticism.

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star: There’ll be new structures with fewer resources. So they may be more solid

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star: Alright, let’s see, what else do you guys have any other burning questions. Why look to see if there’s anything else I really want to say here.

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star: You know,

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star: Month by month December, it starts January in February, are very difficult with everything sort of shutting down march and then we have moving into a more progressive period in March for a couple of months.

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star: And then

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star: elect a lecture days. Very interesting.

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Kathy Gruver: Well,

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star: Of course, now that we have 40% of votes are cast before election day hard. I keep trying to tell astrologers this and they just Tina, they’re not political scientists, they’re not campaigns, get it.

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star: But it’s mercury are standing still, we end the Mercury retrograde period on election day.

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star: So there’s going to be lots of breakdowns and machines.

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star: Lots of adjustment to surprising results.

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star: positive energy for females, both as candidates and as voters.

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star: power struggles in the following week as there’s going to be recounts people, you know, all kinds of things, but it seems to smooth out. And as I said, I don’t see a major revolution.

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star: And then everything gets much better at Winter Solstice when Jupiter and Saturn both move into Aquarius. The message from the higher beings is brotherhood humanitarian is a universal universal energy and equality. Wow.

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Kathy Gruver: So from a business perspective. Okay, so my actual just instinctive thing. A couple weeks ago was that I was going to use

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Kathy Gruver: For a year of learning for finishing up any certain certification stuff that I wanted to do and that I wasn’t particularly going to try to launch anything new. It was going to be more building period and then in 2021 make those moves. Does that sound like a good instinct of

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star: Yes, it does. It’s the right thing to do and for people. You know the right thing to do for existing businesses is to get rid of the dead one to cut out the stuff that’s wasteful to

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star: Bring everything down to its core to what’s essential to what really needs to move forward with you into this new period.

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Kathy Gruver: Um, any real. I mean, it’s just sort of like how our relationships with with spouses with partners with other people in 2020

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Kathy Gruver: Hard, but you’re

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star: Not like I said that there isn’t a whole lot of emotion.

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star: Out though so practical. Relationships are going to be the best ones.

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star: Exactly.

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Kathy Gruver: Man, Jay.

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star: And find yourself a Taurus because Taurus is always will have enough food in the refrigerator and a roof over their head because no matter what happens, torres’s they’re all about practical reality.

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Kathy Gruver: What those those Capricorn.

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star: Capricorn to but Torah says, or more earthy about it.

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star: Can

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star: Get lost in that corporate structure, not the Taurus.

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Kathy Gruver: Taurus. He’s like,

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star: Okay, I’ve got a good guard. I’ve got a house here I can get through this.

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Kathy Gruver: Perfect Virgos are too busy organizing the food to remember the bias.

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star: Crushing in the walls.

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star: That’s funny.

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Kathy Gruver: Okay, Jason. Any final thoughts from you.

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Jason Mefford: Know, I mean, again, it’s, it’s, you know, I know a lot of a lot of this may look bleak. Right. But the whole idea is the better prepared. We are what can happen because again said, you know, starting starting kind of next week ish

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Jason Mefford: There can be some things that it’s going to be a little scary and December, January, February, it’s going to get better in march through July.

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Jason Mefford: It’s going to get a little worse again. But then we’re going to get to the winter solstice and December and things are going to kind of pick back up again. So again, I mean, Cathy. Just like your question there you know of

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Jason Mefford: What do I do in business, what, how do I kind of work with this work with the changing seasons.

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Jason Mefford: As well right and

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Jason Mefford: And kind of know what’s coming. And, you know, as I’ve learned more about because I’m a newbie compared to both of you. Right. But the whole Mercury in retrograde, you know, kind of stuff. I never really understood that and and even even what was it last week. I think it switched over right

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, something like Wednesday, right, that I can tell you know the beginning of the week is like nobody was answering my messages. Nothing only coming through.

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Jason Mefford: You know, and again, I’m starting to pull my hair out, which I don’t have on and then it’s like somebody mentioned again while mercury is just coming out. Okay, okay, okay. That makes sense. And so the more you kind of understand and just kind of go with the flow and not try to find it. Right.

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star: Don’t be

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Jason Mefford: Better off we’re going to be. Yeah.

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star: Don’t be afraid, and don’t believe all the lies. Yeah.

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star: It’s really important to know that just because they say everything is wonderful, doesn’t mean it really is look to reality look to how it feels in your in your real life.

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star: So people can get the full blasted two hours discussion month by month what it means for every sign. I’ll be recording that on December.

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star: December 10 here in Berkeley springs and people can look at my website, which is Star wv.com and there will be a way to order the CDS $20 2020 and your

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Kathy Gruver: Man and and i have to say i mean i tend to buy at the very least one, if not two copies and then I

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Kathy Gruver: I give one to a girlfriend, Lester. Like, you have to listen to this.

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Kathy Gruver: Because in the car and because there’s so much to absorb. So it’s like I have to listen to a two or three times.

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Kathy Gruver: And all like mark the timestamp of where each month is because it’s like, I want to know and I’m right, taking notes in my book. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: It is so invaluable for business and for again for those people, of course, they probably haven’t even gotten this far. But for those of you who can stroll June, there’s reasons for this. It’s trends. It’s patterns. It’s, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: Just because you don’t watch the weather forecast doesn’t mean you can stop the rain.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s going to happen anyway.

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Okay.

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Kathy Gruver: I’m gonna rain. Okay, so be prepared for it if you don’t watch the news cast and you don’t know that you need the umbrella legal office that day.

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star: So,

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Kathy Gruver: Be prepared take those steps star web com go get genius CD I’m Kathy Coover I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached to Jason effort com so Jamie, thanks for coming on.

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star: Thank you.

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Jason Mefford: And we’ll see everybody on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast. So, yeah.

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Yeah.

Real connection with another human being comes from being in rapport. You may have heard the term before, but in this episode we dive deep into how to be in rapport with others and with yourself … something you may not have heard about before. Learn how pyscho-dynamic loops can improve your communication and connection with others.

We are joined by Mike Mandel again to go deep and provide you with some practical tools you can use today.

Mike Mandel single handedly reinvented the persona of the stage hypnotist, rescuing it from its tacky beginnings and giving it rock star appeal. Widely regarded as the world’s greatest hypnotist, Mike Mandel has 18 nominations and 6 awards for excellence in entertainment. In June 2000 he was presented with the COCA Hall of Fame Award, previously won by Sarah McLaughlin, the Tragically Hip and Jim Carrey.

Mike is a qualified trainer of neurolinguistic programming (NLP) and is affiliated with NLPWorks, who offer Canada’s most complete NLP training. He teaches advanced Ericksonian hypnosis both via online training and in a live classroom in Toronto, the hypnotic world epicenter. He affectionately refers to his students as hypnotic storm riders across the world. You can learn more about Mike at: https://mikemandelhypnosis.com

To watch Mike’s keynote speech at Hypnoses Though 2019 (referenced in this episode), visit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FEbsU7Nr9o

Make sure to check out and subscribe to Mike’s Brain Software Podcast. We did 🙂
https://mikemandelhypnosis.com/category/podcast/

fireandearthpodcast

Transcript

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Welcome to another episode of the fire earth Podcast. I am your co host Kathy gruver

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And I’m Jason Medford, and hey, we are excited to have Mike Mandel back with us again. So Mike awesome episode last I’m really kind of mind blowing. For me, I know I think Kathy, you were speaking out to right. So yeah, it’s time to geek out again.

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Okay.

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So So Mike, maybe we’ll just do like a quick 15, you know, 22nd kind of thing for people that maybe didn’t hear the first episode so they kind of know who you are.

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You’re, you’re awesome and your

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Body.

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Your big in what you do, but a lot of you know people outside of your space may not know who you are.

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Yeah, that’s fine. I’ll be quick. Yeah, I’ve been doing hypnosis since 1965 when I discovered my head had hypnotic abilities and been doing it full time since January 29 1975

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And that’s 45 years pretty well full time hypnosis and NLP new code trainer.

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And forensic graph all interest in a forensic hypnotist and it worked on major crimes, including armed robberies murders sex offenses poisonings, all that sort of stuff. And I’ve live, breathe and eat and hypnosis. For the last 45 years. Yeah.

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So, and this is where it was kind of interesting because, as we talked last time, because my background is auditing, you know, doing a lot of

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What you might call it corporate police work right internally doing fraud investigations forensic work some of that kind of stuff as well.

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And just even in general, kind of, you know, interviewing and doing some of this stuff. So when we were talking before about some of the stuff around rapport that you were doing. We thought, okay, let’s, let’s talk about this because I’ve, I’ve heard

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Honestly, I’ve heard people probably miss use the word rapport, or teach it at a very superficial level, but it’s much deeper and much more powerful. So I’m really interested to kind of get your take on it and

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Have another mind blowing Geek Out experience.

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So we can do rapport is, um, it’s the English word for the French word rapport. So although we live in a bilingual bilingual country here in Canada. I’ll stick with the English, English one which is rapport.

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But this 10 different kinds of

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Rapport there’s hypnotic rapport and then this rapport and LP terms neuro linguistic programming. So the hypnotic around poor basically states that if someone has in a Deep Trance

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They will only respond to the hypnotist and will selectively delete vast portions of their experience, like other people in the room.

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Now naturally the hypnotist can bring someone else into that loop and have them respond to them as well. But it’s basically this

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Powerful psychodynamic loop between the hypnotist and the subject or subjects so powerfully relating to each other.

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The NLP term of rapport is when we apparently at least seem to enter someone else’s model of the world.

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There by building a bridge of communication that is very strong, very robust and very powerful because once we adopt someone else’s model of the world, they tend to listen to us.

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And we’re able to influence them as well. Now, you’d mentioned just before we went live with this.

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Jason about, you know, the whole thing that we were taught in the early days, you want to build rapport with someone you find out what their interests are and talk about that.

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I had a friend named Steve many years ago who sold something called venture one headsets.

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These were created by northern telecom or something and they were sold a different company so receptionist didn’t have to go hell all like they used to. They were these headsets and you got a meeting with the

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CEO of a company who were open to the idea and he was taught this old method, find out what he’s interested in and he sees books on the game of squash, not the not the vegetable and

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A trophy and he starts asked him, he knew something about squash and open this loop talking about squash well 40 minutes later the meeting was over, and they were still talking about squash it was never able to segue into the

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Venture one headset. And so there are limits to that kind of thing. So then people like my mentor john grinder and Richard bandwidth came along and they started looking at some

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Amazing communicators and finding out what what are the skill sets that they can sway people so readily and they found out that when people are in rapport with each other.

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They’re just using the same they use the same language, including the great Milton Erickson used to offer back people’s language to build rapport.

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They said, I’ve been feeling sad lately, you wouldn’t say I think you’re depressed, you’d say sad lately you offering their exact words without interpreting which builds an amazing rapport loop.

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Well, this is pacing the person and we were taught to do things like tilt your head, your spinal tilt match their spinal to all of these things. And these things definitely work and number of years ago, and then I’ll tell you the ultimate rapport secret. This will be your takeaway.

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Yeah, it’s a good one. So a number of years ago I had an old printer. I was selling it was a dot matrix if either of you were old enough to remember that.

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And yeah. Oh, yes.

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This does three pages, an hour. It’s amazing. Great. So I wanted to switch to a laser jet for Hewlett Packard, and I to sell this piece of junk.

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So I put it in the buy and sell that was sort of like Kijiji back then and

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I marked the price up by 25 bucks. What expected to get so the person could talk me down and feel like they’re getting a deal standard negotiating technique.

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This guy comes around in my house and maybe appointment to see it. He’s brother’s friend with his friend is the computer expert and it’s going to determine whether he should buy it.

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So I look at his friend. He’s got a jacket on, with all these ham radio crests Peterborough Ontario 20 megahertz Jamba real goal is stop now. My dad.

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Was a ham radio guy. He taught radio in the British Army. He was V3 FB. Oh, that was his call sign in Ontario. I knew just enough about it to fake it.

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And I said, hey, you’re into amateur radio. Yes. Are you. And I said, Well, no, not actually and I saw him deflated all that disappointment.

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And I said, well, my father was V3 IPO and he worked in British Army teaching radio in the car starts to light up. I said, tell me.

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How’s the green line D axing or what kind of skip. Are you getting in the tropical bands. I have no used up the totality of everything I know about radio, but this guy switch do. I’m like a light bulb. He’s getting any very an animated know, think about it.

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What do you feel like when you’re talking about your favorite subject you feel great. Yeah, he’s getting very animated the computer expert. We haven’t looked at the printer.

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And he’s saying oh yeah you know that we’re on the 11th cycle year low cycle of sunspots, and this, and this tropical bands is shut down.

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And as he’s moving. He’s nodding his head and I start nodding with him, and as he gestures like this, I asked a question, adjust to the same way we get this amazing psychodynamic loop of rapport between us.

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And I’m repeating back his words tropical dancehall. Yeah. And now, about two minutes of this, I can now leave and he will follow.

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Those friend says, Well, what about the printer and I did this gesture. I went well. It’s a good printer at a fair price.

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And the guy did the exact same thing I was aligned beside him against the guy. One of the printer and he did the same gesture, when it is a good printer at a fair price same gesture.

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got paid full price didn’t mark it down at all. I remember standing with the money at the bottom of my basement stairs at the rec room.

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Laughing insanely and thinking this is the power so great. It could only be used for good or evil so

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That’s what the old style rapport with matching and mirroring offering back their language, changing the vocal tonality to match. There’s

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Talking in the same system that they’re very visual. You see what I mean. You see what I mean. How does that look to you after they say well I feel all of that stuff.

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But here’s the takeaway, everything changed because one of my mentors john grinder when I was studying with him. We brought him to Toronto, a couple of times.

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And he said, we used to do all that stuff. He said, here’s the ultimate rapport secret my always credit the source, if I can. And this is him, he said.

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Simply pretend congruent Lee that the person you are dealing with is the most fascinating important person you have ever met in your life. Continue to pretend that

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And pretend you aren’t pretending anymore and the mirror neurons do the rest. And so

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I had a chance to test this. I had a keynote for Canada Border Services, which is our Customs and Immigration Service.

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east of Toronto came in by train. They sent me first class ticket on the train relaxing. This Wi Fi. It’s raining, it’s beautiful and reading

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I did the keynote and I two and a half hours to kill before I could get a train home.

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I went into the cafeteria of the facility off into a corner. I just want to read be left alone I become an anti social, you know,

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Not much of a people person. I can do it. But then I withdraw to recharge. And so I had a book I just opened it, and this big guy came in and he didn’t want to these, he said.

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Mind if I sit down.

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I gonna say I’d like it to be a jerk. Yeah, I do my good over here. This is why I said no, of course not. He was a customs officer.

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And we got talking and I thought, I’m going to do john grinders rapport secret I pretended this guy fascinating vitally important. And just someone I’ve always wanted to meet

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And I kept pretending that he told me stories he used to repel down onto Russian trawlers off the coast of Vancouver to check fishing violations.

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Amazing Stories and after two hours. I had to go and the time was gone in the blink.

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And he stood up, he shook my hand. He said, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I said, No, thank you. I said, this is one of the most interesting discussions. I’ve ever had in my life and I meant it.

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And the rapport did it the mirror neurons. You know what everybody’s got a story. Everybody’s got something of value to offer. Sometimes it’s a diamond in the rough and when we open that communication loop with them. It can be absolutely astounding what happens

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Is a two things came to mind as you were talking about that, what I was looking for a new place to live.

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I can build rapport quickly and I’m very outgoing and I’m very personable and I showed up to look at the place that I’m living in now and I’m ready to, like, Wow, this guy. And he was so low key.

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So,

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He’s such an engineer. And I’m like, oh my god, I cannot go with this guy like blah, blah, blah. But I would have scared.

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The crap out of them.

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So I pulled out, you know, very calm Cathy, and I’m like this is a really nice place. We did a really good job on this and I used his language and uses words.

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And he was clearly auditory because he kept saying things like here and listen. And so I picked up on that matched his report and I have a phenomenal place to live.

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The other one is Jason. Thanks so much. I’ve talked about expectation and you know you dread, going to the in laws for Thanksgiving and you don’t want to go and you build up this whole thing about not wanting to do it.

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If you just tell yourself you’re excited to do that thing and you build that it’s simply pretend pretend you’re pretending it’s building

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Site when I get to get in the car and I get to go see these people. I get to have this great meal.

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The more you build that up and it sounds like that’s what you were doing with this guy is just like finding it so fascinating and so exciting to talk to him.

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Until you’re no longer pretending I think we can do that with situations as well as people and I we so often build up this negative expectation and then well how’s it going to turn out. It’s gonna be a horrible.

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Right. Kathy, you’re so right on with that and and that’s the next point. So you’ve nailed it perfectly, you take something you have to do, and in your self talk you change it into something I get to do

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Yeah, immediately, everything changes. Yeah. You know, it’s, I have to, we’re working on a product new product and anxiety product right now, which will get anxiety right in the center and make a lot of people feel better.

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And I’m writing all of this and instead of getting up and saying, oh, I have to have to work on that all day.

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I see I get to sit in my office and look at all these beautiful trees that are changing color play whatever the heck music I want and just hang out by myself and have a blast all day.

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And that makes me want to do stuff. Now I’m back in rapport and myself. We’re about to Erickson saying

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Your clients or patients will become your clients or patients because they are out of rapport with their own unconscious minds.

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And if you think to the last podcast we talked about ego states we are integrated to the degree that our egos states have rapport with each other.

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Then they pop in and out when needed. Otherwise, we get all this people saying, Oh, I should do this, but I want to go to the Bahamas bought clash between different parts of ourselves rapport internally or externally, life gets a lot better.

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Well that’s interesting because you bring that up. I mean, because, because again. So, most, most of the stuff that I’ve heard around rapport, the stuff that I’ve taught people is kind of that NLP

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You know side of it. And, you know, but I love what you said there you know about pretend that they’re the most interesting person in the world and just keep doing it until you’re no longer pretending because I’ve had a lot of discussions with random strangers. Like, like you had

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And it is, you know, a lot of times you’ll walk away and it’s like, Man, that was just freakin amazing right

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You know you’ve I love humans in that way and and when you can actually kind of break that down, then you actually do have that that true rapport.

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With other people. Yes, we probably have to start pretending by, you know, doing some body mirroring by doing some keyword backtracking or, you know, using their words.

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But the more that we do that eventually kind of those barriers and everything falls down and we’re just literally in rapport in the moment with them.

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In the moment

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In the moment. And so I’ll talk about that a lot of times with mindfulness. Right.

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Is if you’re having a conversation with someone get in rapport with them so you can truly be present.

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During the conversation right but but but the little twist that you put on at the at the end there about being in rapport with ourselves.

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I hadn’t really thought about it in that way. And so that’s a very, you know, interesting thing I need to go away and think about a little bit too is like, Oh shit, you know, am I

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Not

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None of us arrive percent I’m convinced that no one’s completely integrated

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That I believe it’s incumbent upon us. We want to be good people and help others, regardless of what our, you know, political and religious or philosophical stripes are we want to be good people.

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Then it is incumbent upon us to continually improve I said in my keynote. The death rate is still one per person no matter what we do.

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But the key is to get as far down the line of being transparent as possible and God knows I’m not there yet. But my wife will tell you, I’m a hell of a lot better than I used to be.

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And we keep changing keep getting in rapport within ourselves. And then what we have to offer is a self that has no artifice. There’s, there’s no hidden agenda.

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Everything is transparent and we are in the moment at that time.

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And you’re bang on with that too because when we are in the zone and in the moment that other person we aren’t thinking of what we’re going to say next. You know, we’re not dominating the conversation as I probably be today, but we’re just

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We’re there and it’s a it’s a remarkable thing and life. Life is freaking awesome. And why not make it awesome for as many people as we can.

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Yeah and there’s been so many times where I’ve had brief exchange. I love talking to strangers. That is my favorite.

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I’m like you I when I hit my limit, though I I become my only child, and they just sit in a corner just rock by myself for a little while. It’s like I’m an extrovert until I’m not, then I’m then I’m done like I’ve done

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And I’ve had people in airports, try to talk to me. I just come and go.

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Because I just can’t do it anymore. But I love talking to strangers and I have learned so much about myself about others about that exchange of things and you never know who that lessons for

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And sometimes you’re just offering this little nugget of something that you have no idea how that influences another person.

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Oh nothing to you and it’s just exactly what you needed to hear. In that moment, and that’s just

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Isn’t that true we help others we grow from I had a flight to Boston. I was doing a keynote. There are a number of years ago and I had one of my students is an OB GYN in Boston. We’re gonna go grab a glass of wine. After it’s on the plane.

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I was reading the elderly woman in her 70s next to me.

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I say elderly and it’s not my job.

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Irish accent and she said we’re going, young man, it’s just going to Boston. I said, I am

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And she said that her husband. She and her husband used to go to Boston all the time he passed away three years previously and she had not gone back since. Now this huge Irish population there and she was

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Looking to go to a lot of places they love going together, they had a good marriage, but she was afraid it was going to stress her out. And that’s going to be overwhelming grief.

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And I said, you know, it reminds me of a person. I spoke to one. So the switch any hypnotic language.

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And trance, this woman out on the plane without her knowledge and we got to the other end. And she said, do you mind if I pray for a young man young man should pray for me. So this Catholic woman praise for me, not knowing that it was a Presbyterian, we really

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Glad we got our luggage and she said you know something funny happened. And that’s like

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I’m really looking forward to going to Boston now. And I said, that’s right.

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Yeah, know rapport with her and the rapport. It was all based on the fact that she was Irish and I loved Ireland and it stayed there unleashing castle that open the door.

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Then she started one packer life and I was able to hypnotically into sector as a result of that, but without rapport, I’d be just talking to the wind.

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So, so, so maybe if you can give us, you know, because I think we at the beginning. We talked a little bit about some of the basic things that you might do, right, if you’re if you’re trying to build rapport with someone else.

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And yeah.

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Having the conversation. Right. I mean, trying to find out what they’re interested in, you know, talk about some of those things you can you can start to do you know the the body positioning

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The, the key word backtracking type of stuff. But when we switch that to ourselves, I guess, how do we, what are some of the things that we should be doing, or trying to think about in with report to our selves, right, because again that’s, that’s where it’s

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Right.

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A little harder. Unless we’re like looking in the mirror and it’s like, oh, I’m going to talk. My head this way. Well, I’m already

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Already Kochi my head that way so that doesn’t really work right.

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I didn’t talk to myself out loud, but it’s like I usually don’t respond to myself out loud so

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Do you

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Well, maybe I do

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only child. Sorry, I

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Don’t you need expert information, you just compare them.

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So what are some things that we can do.

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In rapport with yourself or with you.

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Know, with ourselves.

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With yourself.

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I highly recommend

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You pick up one of the fine books written by Dr. Gordon Emerson out of Australia. It’s Australia, New Zealand, I’m 90% sure it’s Australia. He’s written great books on ego state theory and on resource state therapy.

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And resource state ever since gone

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Further, he treats all the sub personalities as resources, we can draw from

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And it helps us integrate it gives us the means of creating a healing hand where we put our most healing nurturing ego state we get it to agree to be in our hand.

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And then we find parts of us that are unhappy and we treat them by putting your hand on your heart and letting the two ego states.

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Actually build new neural pathways. That’s what’s happening. It’s what’s happening with NLP, this is the wonder of

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A lot of the stuff that my friend Melissa tiers teachers is that we’re not just talking people into things were changing the wiring of their frickin brains and this is yet another way ever since stuff is absolutely fantastic. I highly highly recommend it. And it’s, um,

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I had a tremendous point there, but I’m not an age.

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Of the screen. It’s just gone.

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To get worse for me than

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Way, way worse.

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Oh no, it’s like

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Well, no, but I like I mean there’s there’s a tip again. Right. You said even even, you know, trying to, to, you know, see that other ego state in your hand.

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But then again, you’re using multi sensory stuff where you’re then actually touching, you know, and we’ve we’ve talked about some of that before even with, you know, like self love you know even, even the whole, you know, giving yourself a

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Definitely

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It seems a little. It seems a little crazy, but it actually works.

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Right, it’s not crazy at all. It’s not crazy. Oh, equal states that desperately need to be nurtured and if anybody Google’s Mike Mandel keynote hip no thoughts like 2019 you’ll hear my story.

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I delivered a keynote, the entire KEYNOTE IS IN hypnotic loops and in that I give my story about healing my first healing of an ego state that went back to four years old.

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And when that healed my whole life changed. And it’s, there’s some cool stuff in that because it’s it’s

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This take home stuff and realizing how important this is anyone doing NLP parts therapy, you’re working with equal status.

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Anybody doing Gestalt Therapy where you’re putting things into, you know, the other part of you and a chair and talked with switch chairs. You can leave equal states in chairs.

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And have amazing discussions and change things completely. We had a guy, one of my classes, we’re gonna call him Richard only because that was his name.

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Wonderful man from Yorkshire, England.

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And he was in Toronto. He’s a sales trainer. He’s incredible, but he said sometimes he’d show up for training and he’d be in the zone, he said. Other times, he’d show up.

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Any field timid and afraid to go and speak. And he said, and I said, this is an ego state problem. So we dealt with it in front of the class.

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Put them in a trance asked his ego state that’s powerful and amazing that deals with the speaking engagements really well to come forward and tell me when you’re here.

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This little guy this voice goes, I’m here. Whoa. I said, What can I call you, he said Lionheart now it’s not nice. Richard the Lionheart right let’s think about our history.

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So then we get the other ego state to become executive hitting the hypnosis will get to the deep ones. And this one was the one that shows up sometimes. And there’s afraid and it called itself plant.

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It was like a little plant that didn’t want to be trampled on, and so when it was afraid of speaking, it would some to become executive to try to talk him out of doing his job.

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So I just negotiated said plant will you sit in the background and let Lionheart handle all the speaking, yes.

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And Lionheart. Are you willing to take okay give each other a hug the ego states hug bang his problem disappears. Every time he goes in front of an audience now Lionheart shows up, and he’s in the frickin zone.

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It’s like when I teach martial arts. I mean, my British James Bond ego state like he’s freaking unstoppable. Even at 66

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And I was driving with my wife on Highway four or one in Toronto, which is the biggest, stretch, stretch of highway North America 16 lanes wide.

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And a guy in front of me a pickup truck a dresser fell off the back of his truck into the road in front of me. My wife screamed and the James Bond ego state became executive and

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It was just unbelievable. And later when she had. How did I do that.

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Right. Make friends ego states they are resources, they can help you.

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Yeah, it’s so funny. I had a client asked me a question a couple weeks ago and it was the answer to the question was something I talked about all the time in my talks. And so I went into speaker Kathy and by vibe.

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I verbatim told her the answer that question. And she was on the massage table, and she goes, I have a feeling I just heard your talk.

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Because it was so clearly like a scripted answer to this question and I kind of thought about. I went, oh yeah, I totally switched into speaker Kathy, because that’s a story I tell all the time from the stage.

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And I have to say like your keynote and hip no thoughts. Last year was perfect. It was one of the best talks. I think I came up to you afterwards and told you that she listened to.

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Like I seriously recommend everyone listens. It was not only perfectly crafted talk. It was emotional. It was, I mean it was just the arcs and

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I we have to go because we’ve again blown through a half an hour, but just briefly tell us about loops, because I know we talked about open loops all the time and I only and most people don’t know what we mean by that, so

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Just real quick about loops and open loops and

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Yeah, and trying to engage in communication with another person we’re opening a psychodynamic loop where we’re responding to their behavior, they’re responding to what we’re saying.

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And as long as this continues. We’re in communication with each other and that’s what’s happening, the rapport. We’re opening communication loop.

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Which is going to build very powerful bridges between us and the other person where upon weekend now lead and they can follow and as your unconscious mind takes and the depth of all this information.

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At a level far me on that which you had previously thought capable you can permit yourself to not only take all of this in and apply it perfectly flawlessly.

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And Glenn actively but every conceivable part of all of your ego states can build rapport with the others and enable you to communicate flawlessly effortlessly whenever you’re in the situation when it’s already required and wide awake now.

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So you just totally hypnotized me. Damn it.

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For you.

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And that’s why report so important.

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Right, because we are establishing those communication loops.

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Whether it’s within ourselves and our various ego states or with other people as well, right, because that’s, that’s really when the connection.

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And the, the mindfulness. The presence everything really happens. That’s when you know it’s like when you were telling the story about that man you know that came up. That was a customs officer right you guys built a connection in in those in those two hours. Right.

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That’s a deep human connection that can happen actually very quickly when you get into those loops.

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I think so much, so much of the time we’re so so superficial so worried about whatever thing else is going on that we’re not actually present. And so we’re lacking so much of that connection with other humans. Yeah, that we desperately need. Right.

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Why was the professional yeah well in in the end. That’s why again when you do stuff, you know, using hypnosis or NLP

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It’s like it’s fixing those things that we fucked up before, right, because, because we haven’t had those connections are those other things and so

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Like the story with you know the plant ego talking to Lionheart and giving each other a hug and poof, it goes away right yeah we’re of those connections that we can have

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Whether it’s with live, you know, flesh and blood humans or within our ego states, the more of those connections that we can have

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Right, the greater life is more, we can actually accomplish and do anything.

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The more resourceful, we become

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Yeah yeah

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I love it, I love it so much people how they can reach you.

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Mike Mandel hypnosis com and Mike Mandel ma N D L one, L. And we’ve got lots of trainings, we do live classes in Toronto and in Las Vegas and in England, check out our stuff. Great to be here today. I love you guys.

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So happy to have you. I’m Kathy Gruber. I can be reached at

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Kathy Griffin calm.

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And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out build rapport with yourself and with other people and make those real human connections and we will catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast. See you.

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Yeah.

As a follow up to the episode with Mike Mandel when we discussed ego state therapy, we jump into how you can use the InnerActive Cards mentioned in that episode and how the cards can be used in therapy and self-coaching sessions.

If the scared little child ego shows up when you need to be the confident adults, disaster awaits. Learn how you can use these tools with yourself or clients to help identify work through limiting beliefs and blocks caused when the wrong ego state shows up.

Plus, playing cards is fun 🙂

To learn more about the InnerActive Cards mentioned in this episode, and to purchase your very own deck, visit: http://www.inneractivecards.com/ or https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Active-Cards-Parts-Works/dp/0979889723/

The Fire and Earth Podcast gives you practical advice and keys to unlocking your potential in life and business, hosted by Dr. Kathy Gruver (http://www.kathygruver.com/) and Jason Mefford (http://jasonmefford.com/). Real, raw and unscripted.

#fireandearthpodcast #ego #egostates #inneractivecards #potential #therapy

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason method.

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Kathy Gruver: And I am Kathy gruver and we are going to be talking today about ego states, and this is something I’m really excited about. If you watched Mike Mandela’s episode. He actually started to introduce this concept of the ego states and was talking about these cards.

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Kathy Gruver: And how you bring states to the executive

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Kathy Gruver: Well, we’re going to do a little deeper dive into that because I got the cards I got. The books.

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Kathy Gruver: Actually in my Capricorn way actually enrolled in the course to become a resource therapist because resonated so well with me. So I’ve worked with this with a couple clients. I’ve worked with some stuff on myself.

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Kathy Gruver: With all of this. So we’re going to talk today about how you can use these cards and this whole concept of ego states to improve your life and make yourself.

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Jason Mefford: What I think is good because yeah when Mike was talking, he

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Jason Mefford: Referred to these interactive cards. So we both ended up going out and getting him and, you know, beautiful pictures.

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Jason Mefford: First off, right. But this this whole idea of egos states and hopefully again if you didn’t listen to Mike’s podcast episode, go back and listen to that.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, because the man is just freaking amazing okay but you know there’s a lot of these times, where will react or a certain ego state will show up. That’s not really appropriate you know like the little kid shows up and it’s like

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Jason Mefford: Damn it, I got to be an adult right now.

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Jason Mefford: So talking a little bit more, you know how to actually use this kind of technique or think about it so that we can have more of the the right or apropos. You know, ego state showing up at the right time, so that we’re not having these issues in our relationships and

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Jason Mefford: In our performance in general.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, and it’s really fascinating because I went through these cards and what they recommend and there’s, you know, any number of, you know, just these pictures are great. And what’s fabulous about them is there. There’s no words on it. It doesn’t say like enforcer. It doesn’t say

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Kathy Gruver: What do you call that, you know, but but there’s

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Jason Mefford: Others.

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Kathy Gruver: Right. It doesn’t say athlete, but it also doesn’t say

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Kathy Gruver: Obsessed with exercise to escape, but I mean this could mean anything to anybody. This, I know you’re running, you were talking about doing a marathon, this could just be you and your healthy state of running

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Kathy Gruver: Or I have a client who is doing like hundred mile races.

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Kathy Gruver: And I have to question what are you running from or what are you running towards you know so all of these cards in some way can have a positive or negative aspect to them.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s however you interpreted in that time. And I had pulled cards for myself and then a friend of mine did it and cards that I deemed

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Kathy Gruver: slightly negative or not serving me she felt were positive in her life. So this is a very customizable thing. So what I recommend. I recommend getting these cards I got mine off Amazon.

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Kathy Gruver: Did you get your direct from the company that Mike recommended or

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Jason Mefford: You know what I did, but actually it’s a Canadian company and I guess, actually. The cards are manufactured here in the US.

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Jason Mefford: So I paid a little bit more for them and they still ship them anyway. But you can you can buy them will try to put a link in the show notes for it if you’re interested.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, I think they were I don’t know 20 or 25 bucks. I mean, they’re they’re beautiful art pieces if nothing else to

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Jason Mefford: They really like you said, because they’re just a picture. It can mean different things to each person. In fact, it’ll probably mean different things to you at different times because

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Jason Mefford: These cards are just to used as a way to kind of trigger or bring up kind of some of the stuff that you need to be thinking about

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Jason Mefford: And kind of and kind of

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Jason Mefford: Deal with

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Kathy Gruver: At that particular

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Jason Mefford: Point in time. Right. So there’s no

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Jason Mefford: You know, it’s not like they’re magic cards, if you will. They’re kind of magical and what they do but it’s it’s more about, you know, again, what we need to hear at that time and what

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Kathy Gruver: We need to work through

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Jason Mefford: It’s a tool to help you do that.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely, absolutely. So I seriously do recommend getting a deck of these cards. It’s a $20 investment and it’s really just such an insightful thing. And since here on the fire and earth podcast we were trying to

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Kathy Gruver: Unlock your potential. This is one of the ways to do that 20 bucks, really. Come on, we can do that. It’s like

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Kathy Gruver: What two days of coffee from Starbucks. So what I did and what was recommended through the course that I’m in, and the

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Kathy Gruver: Website that goes along with the cards is just flip through the cards and just pick what resonates with you. That was the first thing I’d recommend that do so if it doesn’t

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Kathy Gruver: Jazz you in some way and you don’t even have to know why.

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Kathy Gruver: Because when I did this with a friend. She pulled one of the cards. And she goes, I don’t know what this card means, I don’t know, have any idea what it is, to me, but it just it appeals to me like great

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Kathy Gruver: And then I kind of set them out of what are the positive cards and what are the negative cards and a couple of the negative cards.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, things like that, you know, I was horribly bullied as a child. We were talking online. So there’s still times that this little this little humiliated, kid.

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Kathy Gruver: Comes out in me and then the scared kid of am I gonna get yelled at and I do something wrong as a kid, I was always afraid of doing something wrong. Even if I hadn’t done anything wrong before, like if the principal would walk into the room.

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Kathy Gruver: Was. Should I do something wrong.

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Kathy Gruver: Still to this day. How many of you, if there’s a cop following you.

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Jason Mefford: Oh, yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: You can be doing the spiel of you wonder if you did something wrong. Okay, so that’s one of my little my little hurt kids. And then there’s the little abandoned kid because I lost a parent young so

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Kathy Gruver: You know, these are some of the, the negative or the hurt personality types of me now, then we get something like

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Kathy Gruver: That that’s my inner superhero that if that little kid comes up, I can call him my inner superhero to help or the nurturing mother, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: I’m not a mother, but I certainly have the ability to nurture myself and nurture those people around me. So once you pick those cards that resonate with you what I did is I picked ones that I’ve been positive and negative. And then I went through and figured out

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Kathy Gruver: If there are any in conflict and this is a huge thing especially in productivity because Jason I know we’ve always had that

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Kathy Gruver: Night where you’re like, I really just want to sit down and watch a movie. And there’s another part of you. It’s like, dude, you didn’t do any work today you’ve got

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Kathy Gruver: An email and you’ve got to get that speaking updated. You know, there’s two healthy states work in play.

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Kathy Gruver: But they’re in conflict with each other. So what do we do about that, you know, at this point, that’s when you can kind of negotiate between those two states and realize they both have purpose. They both have value.

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Kathy Gruver: And one of the things we’re actually doing therapy with this is we named the states.

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Jason Mefford: Well, so let’s let’s kind of take take that

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Jason Mefford: A little bit deeper. Because again, I mean that’s something you felt

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Jason Mefford: I felt, I’m sure, pretty much everybody listening at some point in our

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Kathy Gruver: Life.

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Jason Mefford: We felt that way. Yep, where it’s like, I’m just done. I’m so tired. You know, I don’t feel like doing that, but maybe you’ve made a commitment to yourself.

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Jason Mefford: Or somebody else that you’re going to have

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Jason Mefford: Something done by a certain time sometimes those are kind of false false deadlines or self imposed deadlines that that are not really that important.

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Jason Mefford: Because I know I find myself expecting that I can get way more done any given day, or any given week than I actually get done.

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Jason Mefford: So part of its I needed to have a little bit more grace with myself and realize that, you know, like you said, hey, if that website doesn’t go up for another month it’s not that big a deal.

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Jason Mefford: Right. It’ll be okay. So, you know, as I was going to say so. So when we get in this kind of situation, how do, how do we then start looking at or kind of thinking about these, these two states that are kind of in conflict.

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Jason Mefford: And start kind of, you know, consciously working our way through this to try to figure out why. Why are we reacting this way. And what should we do about it.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, so if you have to healthy states in conflict. So if you’ve got the work state that is like, Come on, you have to get this stuff done.

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Kathy Gruver: My inner Capricorn, which I’m glad she’s there. She keeps me on task. The inner Capricorn is fabulous. However, I also have

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Kathy Gruver: These states that want to play that want to go to dance class that want to go do trapeze that wants it down and just read or one of edge out with a glass of wine on the on the TV.

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Kathy Gruver: You have to recognize that both those states have value. Those are two healthy states, we have to work. We have to rest and as you and I’ve talked about, you know, it’s just as important to decent rate as it is to concentrate. So, which

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Kathy Gruver: You know, can you negotiate that. Now, if someone came to my office because I actually did this yesterday with a woman. We sat the two states down

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Kathy Gruver: I address the states by name work. Do you understand, you know, what do you need. Well, we have to get stuff done, because we have to keep our clients because we have to make money.

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Kathy Gruver: Great. That’s a value. What do you think about play oh well play is lazy and play doesn’t want to have anything to play keeps me from doing my work. Okay.

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Kathy Gruver: Play. Did you hear what work just said yeah what what work doesn’t understand is, if we don’t have time to play. I’m not going to be as productive.

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Kathy Gruver: So if we can work out that maybe for an hour a day I get to play and rest then work is going to be more productive.

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Kathy Gruver: Then you go back work. How do you feel about that. Yeah. I understand what she’s saying. And I think that’s something we can work out. You give them a name and you negotiate that now because I need another person to do that because I definitely

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Jason Mefford: Well, or, you know, talking to yourself. Right. I mean, I’ve heard that, like with self coaching is you, you know, it’s like playing chess by yourself. Right. You move

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Jason Mefford: You move chairs are doing

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Jason Mefford: It actually moves but you actually move, you know,

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Jason Mefford: Put, put two chairs down and you talk from the one person, then you move over to the other chair you talk from the other person so so as you as you were doing that with this client was

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Jason Mefford: Were you kind of leaving that direction as far as saying what they were saying, or she was actually then saying, you know,

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Jason Mefford: Talk from work.

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Jason Mefford: Work, you just heard what play said

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Jason Mefford: That work. How would you respond to what

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Jason Mefford: Play. So, so you’re just kind of facilitating

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Kathy Gruver: Exactly.

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Jason Mefford: That discussion between the two ego states.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep, exactly. And that’s what a resource therapist does is it will facilitate they will facilitate that conversation.

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Kathy Gruver: And also, though, when you recognize that you have these states. So, you know, finding those two states and conflict and finding a resolution for that that’s that’s

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Kathy Gruver: Probably one of the easier things to do, because those are healthy states, you have to have work, you have to have play. However, one of the things I realized is when

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Kathy Gruver: I get to enter Capricorn. You know, when my very like working teaching when that state gets out of hand. It leads to. Oh, now we’re getting a little more strict

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, now we’re forgetting. People have emotions and we’re so locked in work. Oh, now we’re ignoring everything around us. And we’ve gotten into a work state where I’m just lost in that

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Kathy Gruver: hamster wheel and there’s actually a hamster will start to work state.

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Kathy Gruver: And and I can see the cards progress from this positive thing to this negative thing we talked about that to where it’s like this girl handles everything

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Kathy Gruver: I get everything done my to do list is fixed, until one thing goes awry and then this happens, and I go crazy for a second.

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Kathy Gruver: And that anxiety comes over. So how do you stop that. And I think that’s, you know, the negotiating between two states, I think we probably can do a little easier. Is that what happens when a state goes so off the rails, it becomes so negative

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Kathy Gruver: And that’s sometimes a little harder to rein in and you might need help with that one either a friend or a colleague or somebody that can be like, dude, you’re

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Kathy Gruver: Crazy gap corns out, you know,

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Jason Mefford: Well, because we’ve already kind of progress through those different states right as far as feeling to where we are.

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Jason Mefford: And if we can catch herself, maybe sooner. I mean, I love that example of where you’re saying, okay, you know, here’s the serious work person. But if I

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Jason Mefford: If I focus too much on that then I become this person and this person and this person and this person until all of a sudden, like you said, I’m ignoring everybody work is the only thing that’s important.

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Jason Mefford: You know I’m steam rolling over anybody who gets in my way because I’m so focused on what I’m gonna do that come hell or

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Jason Mefford: High Water right I’m getting I’m getting her done

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Jason Mefford: Getting her none. Right.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep. And then where it leads to is this

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Kathy Gruver: This is my inner hedonist

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, who will then go fuck it all and I’ll sit on the couch and I will justify an entire night of wine because I deserve it, because I worked so hard.

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Kathy Gruver: So this can be fun. This is the let’s go party. Let’s have a beach party and let’s have a house party, but this can also be the wake up the next morning completely hung over with drug paraphernalia all around you. Not me.

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Kathy Gruver: But people do that.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, they take himself dream, and then they have to respond in that extreme rather than taking that let me just read for 15 minutes, you know, so it is you’re right, it’s about an awareness of course

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Kathy Gruver: It’s about awareness and awareness of knowing which data is executive and bringing the right state forward at the right time.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, so maybe let’s

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Jason Mefford: Let’s just touch on that again because Mike did talk about

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Jason Mefford: That but for those maybe that haven’t heard it already. Because I mean, effectively in this you know resource therapy kind of ideas that they’re in. And this goes back to a lot of other things as well, right, that we we are an age that we are

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Jason Mefford: But we are a makeup of all of the ages and experiences that we have been before. So we carry all of that stuff with us, that’s why sometimes things trigger us. We go back to being that eight year old, you know,

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Jason Mefford: You know left alone or or picked on.

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Jason Mefford: You know, bullying of that. Yeah, right.

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Jason Mefford: We go. We go back to that that sad, kid. And what happens is that sad kid becomes executive

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Jason Mefford: Or what it means is that they’ve kind of moved from the background to being what we are primarily doing and who we are primarily be right. There’s that being that we were talking about before, right and and sometimes that’s okay.

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Jason Mefford: Depending on the ego state. But when you know when the hurt and and kind of the collected Kid shows up.

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Jason Mefford: We’re probably going to make some decisions and

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Jason Mefford: Do things because we’re being that little kid again.

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Jason Mefford: And sometimes that’s okay, but most of the time we’re adults. So we have to be in that adult state or find one of those ego states as an adult.

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Jason Mefford: That we’re going to make executive. So that’s what it means when we’re saying that, you know, make that executive is that’s the ego state that you’re going from currently. That’s the one you’re

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Jason Mefford: Stepping into that you’re actually making the decisions from right and it even goes back. I mean, I heard one of the other things I heard was, you know, if think about how the person you want to be would do what you’re about to do.

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Jason Mefford: It’s that same idea, right, is if if we’re about to do something which ego state. Do we need to have executive to be that person. Yep.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely. Well, and it’s interesting because having that

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Kathy Gruver: A state that’s vacated which is this hurt state. You can be vetted and fear Veda and rejection baited and confusion, so that this little kid is faded and rejection. So, and this is one of my cards. So if I’m feeling rejected. I guess I had a conversation with a guy dating last night that

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Kathy Gruver: He wants less time that I want, which is a valid thing we’re both adults, we have things to do. We have lives to handle. But even though that’s a completely rational thing and my, you know, my very rational, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: Kept. This is the healthy side. My Capricorn goes well, of course, we don’t want to spend every waking moment with each other. But this went. Why don’t you want to spend every waking moment with either rejecting me my major gonna leave and I had to go dude bring in your inner adult

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Kathy Gruver: You’re okay. You know, so, but it’s like I have awareness of these states and I can feel them shifting

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Kathy Gruver: And you see the so often when you go home for the holidays.

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Kathy Gruver: Yes, don’t you revert back to a 13 year old or don’t you have siblings treat you like you’re still 10 it

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Kathy Gruver: And there’s a there’s a whole play I lose the love this play. I don’t remember what it’s called but I was thinking about when I started working with this.

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Kathy Gruver: If this couples dating, they’ve been together for a while, and she finally says, Do you want to come home to meet my parents or Christmas or the guys like absolutely and

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Kathy Gruver: This its current closes Kurt opens, it’s now the living room with the parents and the parents are sitting there having dinner there decorating the tree or something and a couple walks in and it’s the same guy, but it’s a little girl.

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Kathy Gruver: And every time the scene is with the parents. It’s a little girl.

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Kathy Gruver: And the grown man is like what just happened. And it was so cool because it was this very physical illustration of she reverted back to me this little kid, you know, I’ve seen people do that. Like they talk like a perfect adult then they get around the parents are like,

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Kathy Gruver: Whoa. What did you just because you’re no longer 40 or a 13 year old now. So I’m executive

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. And it’s interesting because we either kind of choose to do that.

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Jason Mefford: Right I going, Oh, daddy, you know, and acting like

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Jason Mefford: A little eight year old girl again or sometimes the other person makes us feel that way.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep.

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Jason Mefford: You know, it’s like it’s like my older my older siblings. I mean, again, we’re grown ass adults. Right.

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Jason Mefford: You know, and then I mean my oldest brother juice. He’s well he’s 60 something or other. Right. Late 60s now and and you know he he’s an old man in comparison, right, like when we were kids, we would have thought that this man that was in his late 60s.

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Kathy Gruver: Is just like

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Jason Mefford: Ancient right but again when I get around him. He treats me like I’m that little five year old kid again right in a in a couple of my siblings do that so

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Jason Mefford: It’s and it’s not that I want to show up that way, necessarily, but that’s how I get treated.

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Kathy Gruver: And obviously, when I

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Jason Mefford: When I start to get treated that way, which he goes state’s going to jump in that little five year old kid is going to want to

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Jason Mefford: Kind of jump in again because we’re used to responding that way. Right.

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Or

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Kathy Gruver: Ice cream comes in loving you probably don’t have it, but you have some version of ice queen.

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Kathy Gruver: So the protection mechanism is if I start to feel like this, or start to feel rejected. I’m like, Okay, great. And I

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Kathy Gruver: completely shut down no motion at all because that emotion hurts. So rather than letting hurt little kid be out and have a conversation around that it’s covered up with ice queen.

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Kathy Gruver: Or it’s covered up with hedonist or it’s so this is the other way. These egos states work is there’s a state that comes forward to protect that five year old kid. So if your brother always bullied you and you don’t want that anymore. It might come up with some other state that

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Kathy Gruver: Encompasses that and then healthy or unhealthy way. So that was one of my problems, you know, in a couple relationships is if I started to feel hurt or threatened, I would

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Kathy Gruver: Okay, shut down. I’m going to work. I’m going to ignore you.

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Kathy Gruver: Everything I’m going to leave the house because I want to get away, and I would be distracted with work and you know that way. You didn’t have to focus on that thing. So that’s one of the ways to cover up that hurt to cover up that beta state.

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Kathy Gruver: So that’s another option two is covering it up with another unhealthy state.

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Kathy Gruver: People have addiction.

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Jason Mefford: Well, it is. I mean, because that’s, that’s, again, that’s how they’re they’re choosing to cope with it. They’re using that hedonism, you know, to kind of cope with or get away from those feelings as opposed to actually feeling it.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep, just

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Jason Mefford: In pushing through that that feeling. Right. And again, this is why you know from a therapy perspective, you know, whether it’s hypnotherapy and

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Kathy Gruver: NLP

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Jason Mefford: You know resource therapy, whatever you happen to us it’s helping us to try to unblock those traumas that we have so that instead of, you know, switching to hedonism.

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Jason Mefford: And sticking a needle in your arm or or doing whatever that we’re actually dealing with that pain or trauma, we’re working through it.

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Jason Mefford: We’re having those discussions.

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Jason Mefford: Right of, well, why do you feel this way. Well, I feel this way. Because of this, oh well you

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Jason Mefford: Did it right and going back and forth and and actually pushed through feel those emotions, but

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Jason Mefford: Push through them so that that you know neglected, you know, left dejected little kid, whatever it happens to be doesn’t need to keep showing up because

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Jason Mefford: You’ve already worked through that and

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Kathy Gruver: Let’s just say, here’s one of the interesting things about that is

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Kathy Gruver: In talk therapy when I show up to talk therapy, you get my normal intellectually talking about everything else state. I can tell you all about my hurt little kid.

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Kathy Gruver: If that state is not executive if that little kid isn’t the one talking, it’s not going to get fixed.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, this is what’s cool about resource therapy. So, of course, this is like I’m doing it right now as I’m like everybody should be doing this.

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Kathy Gruver: You have to bring that state to the executive, so I would have to bring up my hurt little rejected kid.

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Kathy Gruver: And the resource therapist would work with that state because if another state is talking about. That’s like me talking about your need for therapy.

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Kathy Gruver: Unless we actually get you in the room, nothing’s going to change. So one of the things we do in resource therapy is we we get to that.

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Kathy Gruver: We bring that state to the executive, so I would

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Kathy Gruver: Feel those feelings from last night of feeling that rejection. Oh god, I do. I could actually bring it up. I can feel it right here. And then you radiate that radiate that radiate that until you’re in it and then you look back and go

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Kathy Gruver: Okay so dip your feet and that feeling. How old are those feet and it typically takes you back to childhood and you’re like other kind of eight years old, are you inside or outside. Oh, I’m inside

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Kathy Gruver: Well, are you by yourself or with other people. Well, my mom is there and she said she has enough time to play with me or whatever it is.

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Kathy Gruver: And then you can heal that from back there and then you don’t need to cover it up. And then you also want to bring the state for that’s been protecting them.

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Kathy Gruver: Hey Jester, I know you’ve been protecting that little kid with humor and you’re the client, you were the class clown and you’re now you you get very Chandler from friends, you know, covering up emotions with humor, or you cover motions with food, whereas Mike’s happy peg. I love that card.

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Kathy Gruver: But then you want to. There was happy pig.

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Jason Mefford: Mm hmm.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, let’s eat our emotions, feelings are feelings, you know, that kind of thing. But you do want to thank that state for helping and then you give them a new job.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, serve a purpose. So I mean it’s. This is why I love this because it actually gets to the root of the problem and solve these issues.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s why some of the things that I’ve gone through, you know personally with that you know like that where

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Jason Mefford: Where you you get that ego state to kind of show back up, you know, whether it’s hip no NLP whatever happens to be right and and that feeling or that that release.

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Jason Mefford: That kind of happens. Right. I mean, I remember one of the sessions that I was going through and it was about, you know, I was probably I must have been a

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Jason Mefford: Maybe nine

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Jason Mefford: Years old right and and again kind of talking to that little kid and and that whole idea of, you know, nine year old Jason, you know, is that really what it means. No, you know, do you have to keep feeling that way.

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Jason Mefford: No right and and and just this kind of release that ends up happening that it’s it’s it’s kind of weird.

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Jason Mefford: But it actually

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Jason Mefford: It actually happens.

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Jason Mefford: Right, like that where

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Jason Mefford: You know, maybe it takes more than one time. Sometimes, you know, boom, first time you’re done.

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Jason Mefford: Depends on kind of how deep seated or vacated. Some of these traumas actually are.

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Jason Mefford: Absolutely right. But, you know, one and one of the things that that you brought up and even in your example right there when you were thinking back to your discussion last night.

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Jason Mefford: You started to feel it right so maybe let’s talk just a little bit for people to have you know how to start feeling or being emotionally intelligent

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Jason Mefford: Through the feelings that we’re having

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Jason Mefford: And how that might relate back to some of these ego state so that we know will hold it. Just a minute, you know, nine year old Jason’s trying to come back out. Why is trying to do that.

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Jason Mefford: And how we kind of work through that.

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Jason Mefford: In the moment. Okay. Because a lot of times we don’t have the ability to sit down and do some of that self coaching or other stuff, you know, it’s like, hey, Kathy, you know, timeout. I need to go take

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Jason Mefford: You know 20 minutes and talk to myself, and then we’ll come back and

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Jason Mefford: You know, sometimes you sometimes you can. It depends on the other person and how

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Jason Mefford: How understanding, they are

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: But how do we how do we, kind of, you know, bandaid it

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Jason Mefford: In the situation so we

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Jason Mefford: Don’t make things worse.

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Jason Mefford: Yep. But then again, realize and

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Jason Mefford: consciously know I gotta go back and take care of the ship.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, I’ll give you the perfect example. So, and we talked about this before. So my dad died as I was driving to do a TED talk.

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Kathy Gruver: So what ego State wanted to be forward for me, I would a sob like a little kid. I just lost my daddy. Oh my god. My best friend is dead. Holy ship. Nope.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, ice cream, show up.

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Kathy Gruver: She had to. There was no way I was able to do that talk if she didn’t show up. The second I got off stage I lost my shit backstage. I mean, like, I thank you hand the mic. I was gone on the floor. She was like,

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Kathy Gruver: Kathy needs help. I didn’t call her content. I kind of did call her consciously because as I was talking to people about it on the phone. I talked to my ex husband and

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Kathy Gruver: The guys did Baba, Baba. I was very specific of. Okay, I just need to power through this and I can’t think about that. I was very unconsciously, but

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Kathy Gruver: Consciously calling forward Capricorn is clean to hell, the situation for me now that I have knowledge of these ego states like last night as I was starting to feel that little scared, kid. And I wanted to get clingy to him.

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Kathy Gruver: Which would have completely backfired. Because when someone says, Let’s have some more space. The last thing you want to do is clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, it’s what we tend to do so I specifically in that moment, said, Where is my inner nurturing adult

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Kathy Gruver: I don’t need him to comfort me I have to be able to self soothe and comfort myself and

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Kathy Gruver: If I didn’t have knowledge of these states ahead of time. And this is why I think it’s so fun to lay out these cards and know what your state’s. Get to know your state’s name them. I have an entire chart.

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Kathy Gruver: Of my states and what they do and how to call them up. Sometimes you can call them up with an anchor. Sometimes you can call them up with music. Use it totally gets me to shift state.

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Kathy Gruver: Certain movies. Don’t you feel empowered like after watching certain movies or listening to certain music and when I was heading for my tax audit.

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Kathy Gruver: On the way to the tax audit I blared Nine Inch Nails the entire way because that gets me into this tough girl, very straightforward no nonsense. Fuck you. We’re doing this kind of me. You can just like

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Kathy Gruver: As

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Jason Mefford: A refugee, you don’t know who you’re getting

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Kathy Gruver: Because like I don’t want this to show up to my tax on it.

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Kathy Gruver: Mm hmm. Oh my god. Okay, well, you know, I don’t know how much money I made last year and you know it’s like we don’t want that coming for I don’t want that on stage. I play on stage, but I don’t want it to be the frivolous little kid.

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Kathy Gruver: So, you know, it’s like we do have a choice, and we can, once we know those states we can call them up, bring them executive and there are ways to do that. There’s ways to trigger that into action. Yeah. It was a long explanation. Sorry.

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Jason Mefford: No, no, no, it’s great because actually brought up a couple of points to that that I just wanted to explain a little bit because I’m not sure.

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Jason Mefford: Everybody understands what these mean but these are some practical tips that you can actually

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Jason Mefford: Do. So effectively what you’re saying. Again, as you, you start to realize some of the different ego states that you have

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Jason Mefford: And when something pops up. It’s almost like, All right. Hey ice queen Kathy you’re needed on stage right now, you know, where’s my ice queen.

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Jason Mefford: And and you can do things to try to help that ego state come forward, you talked about anchoring anchoring, you know, again, it’s it’s it’s doing

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Jason Mefford: Certain things that anchor you in a feeling, it can be, you know, holding you know two fingers together, it can be closing your eyes and saying a word. It can be doing emotion like yes

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Jason Mefford: You know, it can be putting on a hat or doing something that reminds you of, you know, hey, this is what ice queen Kathy does right and it helps call her out.

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Jason Mefford: At the time that she’s needed and then again you know as we do that. It’s like, you know, it’s almost like we’re the director of our life. If you want to think about this. Right. And you’ve

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Jason Mefford: Got all of these different actors that can come out on the stage and you need to help decide which one needs to show up at which point

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Jason Mefford: But then make a note to yourself. Right. You know, again, like, like you did Kathy, it was you know my dad just died. Holy shit. I’ve got this. I’m on my way to the speech.

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Jason Mefford: You know, ice queen. You got to show up. But note to self as soon as I no longer need ice queen. I got to go back and actually deal with and have the ego show up that I need to to deal with this issue in my life right now.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep, to have those emotions and that that is, you know, something we do we stuff emotions with food with drugs with work with, you know, we do at some point have to process those emotions.

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Kathy Gruver: And yeah, it’s fascinating. So had a point oh no it’s gone that he

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Jason Mefford: Left. Here you go. Say left

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Jason Mefford: Come back.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, maybe. Well, and I think I think what’s interesting, too. I’ve actually noticed

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Jason Mefford: One of the guys that I listened to a lot of his podcasts and stuff, he will, you know, just like that, when he is here’s kind of another way of anchor help to tap your subconscious a little bit is when he’s trying to explain something and he can’t remember.

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Jason Mefford: You’ll actually asked

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Jason Mefford: Himself a question and and and one of its it’s interesting because I’ve watched this kind of from the sidelines and I don’t know if he’s consciously doing it or not, but I’m seeing where

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Jason Mefford: You know, like that. It’s like, oh, I had a point and then he’d say, you know, what was that point that I had, you know, some kind of a thing like that and then all of a sudden it’s like

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Jason Mefford: Boom. The answer comes in that asking yourself questions, you know,

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Jason Mefford: This goes back to Kim over the guy that wrote the book on a half formations, you know, where instead of him. If you heard that. But instead of having affirmations as a statement he sets them as a question.

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Jason Mefford: Right, so that you’re asking yourself questions because when you ask yourself a question your subconscious wants to give you an answer.

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Jason Mefford: Yes. And so, you know, again, it’s like, you know, saying, Where is my ice queen. Where is my, you know, fun loving jester

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Jason Mefford: You know, kind of a thing can even help them kind of come back out. So anyway, that was little side thing just because

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Kathy Gruver: Well, and I think we’ve also had the experience where we’re like, yeah. So I totally want to go to this event and I will totally do that thing for you. And then we get home. And we’re like, why the fuck. And I agree to do that.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh my god, I totally don’t want to do that thing. I mean, you know, or it’s like yeah let’s go out on that date. We’re going to have fun. I think that’s why

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Kathy Gruver: We’re going to go into weird waters here. I think that’s why there’s that bravado in the bar of you pick up that guy and you’re like, I’m totally going to sleep with him and and then you actually get in the moment you’re like, I don’t know that I know that you know you switched ego states.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, suddenly either a fearful one comes up, or that bravado tough girl chocolates, go do that thing.

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Kathy Gruver: And then you go, Oh, shit. I don’t want to

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Kathy Gruver: I think that’s one of the issues. So the ego state that said yeah let’s totally go do that thing.

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Kathy Gruver: isn’t there anymore. It’s got it has been overtaken by the rational one or the sober one or the whatever, and I think that’s one of the problems I think we also fall in love with certain ego states. I have a friend who’s a magician and women love him.

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Kathy Gruver: UNTIL HE’S NOT ON STAGE anymore.

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Kathy Gruver: They fall in love with his performance ego state, the sort of arrogant, sort of like

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Kathy Gruver: Kind of a dick on stage, but there’s something sexy about that. And then they actually go to dinner with him and he has had several people say to him.

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Kathy Gruver: Kind of like your performer better than you.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, and then of course scary, a little kid is like

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Kathy Gruver: But it’s true. He’s having so much trouble meeting women because they see him as this.

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Kathy Gruver: Very cocky very confident person, which isn’t who he is. That’s his ego state on stage.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s why i mean it’s for performers in general, that’s, that’s hard because the public sees you as the performer.

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Kathy Gruver: Yep.

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Jason Mefford: So yeah, if, again, if he’s just wanting to, you know, continue that have fun, you know, stay in that ego state when he’s out dating is going to have fun right but if he wants a longer term relationship he needs to probably meet people.

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Jason Mefford: When he’s in his normal ego states, instead of his performer states so they can actually see him for who he is.

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Jason Mefford: Instead of falling in love with that one ego state that only shows up you know once or twice a week, whenever he happens to be performing right

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Kathy Gruver: Yep, so

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Jason Mefford: Interesting. It’s interesting.

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Kathy Gruver: I know, and this one every thing. I mean, it’s like I was so Jasmine. I found this video I have played with so many different modalities and so many different things that you know I do hypnosis and this actually Gordon Emerson actually created this for hypnosis.

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Kathy Gruver: When you work with the ego states in therapy. Like, I will have a person in hypnosis unless we’re switching chairs unless I’m doing negotiation which like I said, I did the other day.

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Kathy Gruver: So yeah, but it’s the last car was the last card. I wanted to show you because there is a state that’s executive most times. And it’s interesting because I’ve tried to find the card that’s executive go

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Jason Mefford: One. The drunk on the floor.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, maybe I’m covered in cards. All right, you say something, I’ll find a

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Jason Mefford: Card. Oh, I’m saying something something something so

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Jason Mefford: Just being a smartass

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Jason Mefford: Well, no, I did.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah. Well, you could. You made reference to Eric’s to which is which is interesting or Emerson. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Mike. Mike made reference to he’s one of the pioneers of hypnosis and in the modern age in America.

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Jason Mefford: So yeah, he was even using this stuff back there. But then it’s kind of been lost a little bit

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Kathy Gruver: So there’s a trigger herself Milton Erickson is the hypnosis guy.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, Gordon Emerson is the resource therapy guy. He’s in Australia.

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Jason Mefford: Cool. Okay. That’s why to eat.

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So I was like,

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Jason Mefford: That’s why when you said I was like I was reading something about Erickson this morning. What are you talking about Kathy. Okay.

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Emerson.

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Jason Mefford: Emerson was doing the resource stuff in Australia.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, sure.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, I learned something today too.

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Kathy Gruver: I hope so.

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Jason Mefford: I hope so. I learned lots of stuff today.

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Kathy Gruver: And see what’s that’s

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Kathy Gruver: What’s fun about you and I as we can do like this professional thing, but we can also let our little kids out

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Kathy Gruver: And just like tease each other and play. And I think that’s what was appealing to each other. When we met at the NSA meeting is we could see that there was that we sparked a little kids in each other. And I love that. I love that so

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Kathy Gruver: We all have an ego state that’s just sort of our default ego state that’s around all the time. This is mine.

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Kathy Gruver: I love this card. And as I was searching for like a human that represented, who I was all the time. I realized there wasn’t one

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Kathy Gruver: This is what it is. It’s this balance. It’s the the balance of reaching for the sky and being grounded in the earth.

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Kathy Gruver: And my normal waking state. This is just sort of who I am, until one of the others comes forward and they’re not always, you know, like I said, they’re not always positive ish. They all have a purpose, though all of our ego state serve a purpose.

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Kathy Gruver: They all serve a purpose.

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, unless they’re invaded and down and

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Kathy Gruver: There’s a state protecting and serving a purpose. So it’s just, it’s such a cool thing. And I’ve been having so much fun with this. And I’ve already helped three or four people with it and just the short amount of time I’ve been playing with it. So yeah, and

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Kathy Gruver: I have such deeper insight into myself. And so I know what to call forward when which is which is awesome.

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Jason Mefford: Well, in my nerdy. He goes status taken over, and I’ve been taking all kinds of notes, too. So it’s a good yeah I bought the I bought the deck of cards, but I haven’t really used them, per se. I flipped through them.

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Jason Mefford: A few times. But yeah, now I’ve got a lot better idea of how I can actually go back and try to start using it or thinking about it.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, because again, for me, I’m trying to be and show up right as that future self, or that person that I that I want to be that I want to share with the world that’s going to make an impact and difference in the world. And I need to have that ego state show up.

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Jason Mefford: More and more

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Jason Mefford: And so when you know, like you said, when we notice that these other ones are kind of creeping in, it’s like, Okay. Sometimes that’s okay.

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Jason Mefford: But you know that still go with that. But we need to try to be that other person as much of the time as we can be. And so again, if there’s conflict between some of the different states. Let’s talk it through and figure out what’s going on.

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Kathy Gruver: Exactly.

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Jason Mefford: Let the, you know, let the little kid realize hey you know what you’re not neglected and it’s not that you’re not loved right it’s it’s because of this right. Can you understand that. Oh, yeah. No, I totally see that.

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Kathy Gruver: And kind of go from there. Yeah. So flip through the cards, see which ones resonate with you. You don’t even need to know why it resonates with you pull them out.

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Kathy Gruver: And then kind of start looking at, you know, what are my positive ones water, the ones that maybe need a little bit more work maybe are hurt ones that I’m going to have to counsel, a little bit.

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Kathy Gruver: See which ones are in conflict. Again, it’s typically that work play on and then see what leads to what, like I said, I have a progression of

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Kathy Gruver: Very focused on work. And then, oh my god, I’m crew and then you know you can chart that progression and it tends to get less healthy seconds down the line.

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Kathy Gruver: And then what balance. You have to find in that and it’s just all about self awareness.

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Kathy Gruver: And then being able to call certain ego state forward and I’m the same as Mike he talked about. He has his lecture self he has the librarian which feeds them facts and he has the the Jester, which does is

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Kathy Gruver: I have the exact same thing. I have my lecture Kathy I have Capricorn that feeds me information and I have the comedian next to me, who notes funny things and throws that funny lines.

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Kathy Gruver: And I have to make sure the right ones there all the time because sometimes the humor can, you know, you walk off stage and you have that ego boost and then the humor comes out and people are like, why she’s saying that, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: So, but yes, there’s so many great ways to use this stuff so

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Jason Mefford: So go out and get a pack of the cards and just start playing with it and see, you know, like you said, I mean we’ve we’ve seen some

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Jason Mefford: benefits from it. Kathy’s already had some clients that have gotten a lot of benefit from it.

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Jason Mefford: And it’s more just that awareness, you know, the more aware, we are about what we’re feeling and why we’re feeling that way.

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Jason Mefford: The easier, we can actually work through this stuff and not have it, you know, continue to hold us down because if you’re gonna unlock your potential. You got to work through some of the shit in your life. I mean, that’s just, that’s just a fact.

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Jason Mefford: If not, you’re going to stay stuck where you are. You still have to have the courage to actually do it even if it’s a little bit different.

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Jason Mefford: Even if it feels a little uncomfortable because you know what, if you want a better different life it’s going to feel uncomfortable because it’s not what you’re used to. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: You got it.

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Jason Mefford: You just got to get used to that. So,

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely. Yay. So go north, figure out what ego state you have executive, what you want to be executive and again it comes down to knowing what you want and then who you are, can come forward and help you with that. So it’s been a fun show. Yeah. All right, I got cards all over my desk. Now,

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Kathy Gruver: Capricorn would like to clean that up.

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Jason Mefford: All right, there you

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Kathy Gruver: Excellent. I’m Kathy group, I can be reached at Kathy Gruber calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm and we’ll see you on a future episode of the fire and earth podcast. See ya.

We learn a lot in classrooms, but the real learning comes from experience and the reflection after the formal learning.

In this episode we discuss the benefits of taking some of the time to reflect and developing relationships with others. If you are like most people, often the greatest insights from a conference come in the hallways between sessions and the bars after sessions.

So come raise a glass with us, and learn some of the insights we have both received outside of the classroom.

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast, I’m your co host Jason Medford

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Kathy Gruver: And I am Kathy gruver and today we are toasting

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Jason Mefford: We

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Blink.

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Kathy Gruver: Because we’re talking about learning and different types of learning, sort of, I just got back from a conference and convention, excuse me, and one of my clients SAID HOW WAS IT NICE OF YOU KNOW, I THINK I spent more time in the bar than the classroom. Now that could indicate risky drinking

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Kathy Gruver: Back and I realized that the learning doesn’t always just happen in the classroom. It happens all over the convention all over the office space all over the conference.

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Kathy Gruver: And so we’re going to talk a little bit about that today give you guys permission to put your books down leave the classroom and go socialize.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, because I think it’s interesting, you know, a lot of times we we focus so much we feel like we just have to be

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Jason Mefford: You know, learning, learning, learning, learning, trying to fill our brain fill our brain and interesting because last week I actually went to a mastermind group that I’m a part of

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Jason Mefford: And. And one of the things that we’re talking about is, you know, learning happens through experience. But the real learning actually happens during reflection.

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Jason Mefford: So it’s those times you know after we’ve kind of filled our brain, full of stuff that we’re actually processing it

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Jason Mefford: And things end up coming about, you know, and it’s like, you know, again, you got a little drink in your hand, you kind of relax yourself a little bit. And it’s amazing how much your mind kind of opens up processes that information. And that’s really when you actually learn it.

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Kathy Gruver: Right. Well, absolutely, because we’ve talked about this before and I love using the word decent rate you know we concentrate so much is some point, you can only learn so much you can only sit in yet another classroom and get in a nother uncomfortable chair, kind of going

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Kathy Gruver: And especially with something that’s so heavy. Sometimes it’s hypnosis hypnotherapy, you know, all this kind of stuff, which is what I was doing in the UK. It got to the point where I couldn’t actually absorb any more information and I found myself every time I walk past the bar and

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Kathy Gruver: You know, or pass the restaurant or path. The lobby. That’s where

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Kathy Gruver: That’s where the conversations were happening. That’s where so many of the instructors were hanging out and you know we’ve had Mike mendell on the show, who’s a very dear friend of mine.

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Kathy Gruver: I spent the majority of the conference, talking with him and his colleagues and because he’s one of the tops in the field. What did that do

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Kathy Gruver: That attracted the other people who were tops in their field and I found myself sitting in a booth with five of probably the most famous well known most learned

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Kathy Gruver: hypnotist in the world. So a couple things came out of that one. I got to pick their brain because everyone’s when I go

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Kathy Gruver: For it well, and I’d asked a question, which of course he’s at that point, more than willing to answer because we’re all sitting around being friends.

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Kathy Gruver: And other people who came by and this sounds horrible. But it’s so unfortunately what things we think about business anytime anybody came by, they saw the tops in the field and

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Kathy Gruver: Me hanging over there.

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Kathy Gruver: Late so everyone started to go, Oh, who’s this Kathy person. So it’s sort of up to my credit in the industry because I’m sitting there with the best, you know. So I not only got to learn from that perspective.

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Kathy Gruver: Pick their brain form those relationships, which is what business is so much about social media. So we talked about is building relationships and I kind of got a little like up on my little popularity button there.

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Kathy Gruver: And being that I was under the school that no one liked. I want to be popular.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and so, so, you know, again, for some of the people that are listening right i mean how we’re going to try to tie this all and everything is, you know, here we are. I’m having sipping on my scotch, you know and and Kathy’s got her her wine there.

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Kathy Gruver: Take another drink. By the way, yeah I

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Jason Mefford: Feel like I’m Ron, why should I start smoking to

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Kathy Gruver: My surprise. Well, we did the smoke break one already.

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Jason Mefford: But the, you know, the whole idea is that that exactly kind of as Kathy was just talking about.

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Jason Mefford: If you want to really learn if you really want to develop relationships. Yeah, actually have to hang out with people and kind of a non structured format.

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Jason Mefford: And you know, I learned this fairly early in my career, I was an executive at a few companies and I will tell you the amount of business that is done.

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Jason Mefford: Between about 10 o’clock and midnight when again you’re sitting in the bar with the other executives or with another with a client.

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Jason Mefford: You’re relaxed, you’re enjoying each other’s company. It’s amazing the stuff that actually happens right during that time. And so

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Jason Mefford: You know, again, a lot of times we feel like all I got to learn. I gotta go. I gotta do I gotta Baba, Baba. Right. I always got to be moving. I got to be hustling. I got to be doing this. And it’s like, you know, calm the fuck down and actually pause right

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Jason Mefford: Because when we do that, it’s easier for us to actually make those connections with other people. Yep. Plus it, you know, like we said, a lot of the learning happens in the pausing

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Jason Mefford: So after you filled your brain full like being at a, at a conference or convention.

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Jason Mefford: Your, your brain is literally fall. And I don’t know if you’re like me, but a lot of times at the end of the day, it’s like PR. I just can’t take it anymore. Yeah, you know, kind of a thing. I just have to, especially since I’m such an introvert.

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Jason Mefford: I often have to kind of like, you know, go off to the corn her step outside for a little while and kind of decompress a little bit

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Jason Mefford: But as I as I’m sitting there or you know like that as I’m sitting around talking to other people in the in the break areas or at the bar, then it’s like, you know, a lot of that kind of inspiration and stuff coming in and it’s like, Oh, now I have more clarity on what I need to do. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: And it’s, it’s so funny because I actually never watch Mad Men.

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Jason Mefford: Oh, you didn’t

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Show.

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Jason Mefford: I really love this show.

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Kathy Gruver: But it kind of reminds me of that era where it’s like, you know, the old boys club. But the guys go to the bar towards they have their cigars and their cigarette in their drinks and that’s when this stuff happens and it’s

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Kathy Gruver: Interesting to bring a whole different perspective into this. I was talking to a client of mine, she’s

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Kathy Gruver: Like passionate about a lot of things.

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Kathy Gruver: she yells a lot. Um,

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So,

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Kathy Gruver: It’s really, it’s a very light wines very sweet. It’s basically grape juice. Okay, so, um, passionate client. Yeah. And we were talking about the whole meat to movement and I don’t want to make this political I have mixed views on the mutual movement, personally.

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Kathy Gruver: But one of the things she said that she thought this was how this was going to backfire to women is

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Kathy Gruver: If men are so paranoid to be around the women if they are so paranoid to socialize with the women if they’re so paranoid and being accused of blah, blah, blah. With the women.

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Kathy Gruver: When the men go out to the bar to do the business. They’re not inviting the women. And typically, it was more sort of a guy thing anyway but

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Kathy Gruver: The women like in sales and stuff aren’t getting the that personal access when those deals actually happen.

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Kathy Gruver: And she actually felt that the me to me. What was really going to backfire because women were going to be excluded from that kind of socializing.

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Kathy Gruver: For the men’s fear that they’re going to be put on charges for inviting woman to a bar and that they weren’t going to get as much work from it and I had to really sit and ponder that because I’m not in that realm, you know, um,

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Kathy Gruver: But I have to say the majority of times I’ve been at conventions or conferences.

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Kathy Gruver: It’s the guys that are doing that, you know, and I don’t know if the women feel like it needs to be more structured and this is of course a vast

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Kathy Gruver: blanket statement generalization. I don’t know if the women feel like it needs to be more structured, or if they’re off talking amongst themselves and not

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Kathy Gruver: crossing lines into the guys. I don’t know what it is but but that was an interesting point. And so it’s not too. It’s a get out of your click Get out of your group go talk to other people you don’t know tap into your inner extrovert Jason go talk to strangers.

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Jason Mefford: I do you do talk to strangers.

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Kathy Gruver: I know you do. That’s how we

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Jason Mefford: love talking to strangers.

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Kathy Gruver: I did a tail. Yep. We’ve had, I think we did a whole do we do a whole episode on that we still have yeah but it’s it’s that you know

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Kathy Gruver: Crossing over those people you don’t know and approaching them. And while I was sitting there with that you know the in crowd so many people kind of sheepishly K sheepishly came over to it. I

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Kathy Gruver: Don’t do you know it’s like do it talk to them if they don’t want to talk to you. They’ll tell you, but especially like a hypnosis conference where everybody’s there. It’s such a brotherhood sisterhood, you know,

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Kathy Gruver: Everybody’s open to talking to everybody else, or else they wouldn’t be sitting there, they’d be in the room, you know, so don’t be afraid to approach people

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Jason Mefford: One, I think, actually, as you brought that up. It kind of sparked a couple of thoughts in my mind because I think you’re right. You know, we’ve

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Jason Mefford: Especially in the workplace in business. Now we’re so walking on eggshells afraid that we’re going to offend somebody afraid that we’re in, do something. Now this is not to, you know, discount. There have been some frat boy kind of

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Jason Mefford: Bully oh on that’s just unacceptable, but I think, you know, again, it’s, we’re talking about some of these social settings is where we can actually show and be more authentically us

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Jason Mefford: Which we need to be right. I mean if if business if life becomes so sterile, then you’re never able to actually make the connections. You may not like everybody you know because, because again, like one of the guys that one of the executives that I used to hang out with a lot

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Jason Mefford: There was kind of a little mentor to me he was he was at the end of his career. I was kind of at the beginning of my career.

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Jason Mefford: And I learned a tremendous amount from him. And so he was he was from the old days of the two martini lunch. Yep, and sales guy and everything else. He had a bottle of scotch in his office.

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Jason Mefford: And I, you know, there were some people in the office that that kind of felt like you know he was unprofessional. Well, I’ll tell you what the guy performed. He was an amazing salesperson.

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Jason Mefford: And and you know he was who he was right. And so again, being who we are, can actually unlock and open up a lot of different things, you know, another TV show the crown.

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Kathy Gruver: Or saw that either.

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Jason Mefford: You never saw that either. Okay, well,

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Jason Mefford: I don’t watch or watching that. Now, you know, it’s about it’s about, you know, the British monarchy and there was an episode where because Princess Margaret who’s Queen Elizabeth’s sister as well. But she was more of a party girl.

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Jason Mefford: So she was always kind of like, you know, the royal family was a little embarrassed and kind of put her off to the side.

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Jason Mefford: Clean, but in this in this one episode in the latest series. It just came out, there was a point when the Brits needed to negotiate with the Americans.

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Jason Mefford: And Lyndon Johnson was the president at the time. And he was a very interesting man. Okay. And you know he didn’t want to talk to the Brits because he considered to be pompous arrogant pricks blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, kind of thing, right. So they sent Princess Margaret.

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Jason Mefford: To America for a trip. Anyway, and instead of accepting the Queen’s invitation for Johnson to go to the UK on a shooting trip.

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Jason Mefford: He said, instead, why don’t you have Princess Margaret drop by while she’s here in the States. Anyway, and we’ll do a dinner at the White House.

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Jason Mefford: And it ended up they both got a little drunk. They were dancing together, they were singing telling you know off color limericks everything else. Totally. You know down both of their lanes and they had this connection and when she walked away from that Johnson had agreed to a bailout.

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Jason Mefford: You know, in sending you know billions of pounds, if you will, to help England after the Second World War, because they got an a really tough financial situation.

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Jason Mefford: You know, so again, just like with learning, you know, as we’re talking about the relationships you know

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Jason Mefford: You can learn more in the bar than you can in the classroom. Sometimes you can develop more of a relationship with people and actually get stuff done, that when you’re not trying to be so rigid, so

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Jason Mefford: Anything and actually just let yourself out be who you are and you will attract and be able to do the things that you need to in your life and in helping the world and others around you as well. Yes.

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Kathy Gruver: So I do the caveat on that though.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, be who you are unless you’re a drunk, asshole.

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Jason Mefford: If we go long enough, maybe. No, no.

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Jason Mefford: Don’t be a drunk, asshole.

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Kathy Gruver: I do want to be. I do want to do drunk fire and Earth at some point. But not today.

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Kathy Gruver: As we have another show to do. We don’t want to do that. But what I’m saying is I have been to events where

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Kathy Gruver: And I’m not talking about the cut loose Christmas party where inevitably someone should face.

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Kathy Gruver: I’m talking about a mixer where you get your drink tickets and you’re supposed to be, you know, it’s a business function.

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Kathy Gruver: And I have seen people act so vastly and appropriate. They’re dressing appropriately. They bring too many guests. They are drunk and they’re dancing on tables and they’re knocking stuff down. And if you cannot handle alcohol.

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Jason Mefford: Don’t do I

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Kathy Gruver: Do not put yourself in that kind of situation because in that sense. You are not creating bonds. You are not making business happen you’re making a fool of yourself. And if you don’t know that that’s you ask your friends.

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Kathy Gruver: No, I’m serious, like have someone babysit you because I cannot tell you how many events. I’ve been at worse. I was like, I guess my my purse and I end up walking around with five persons, because everybody’s intoxicated. I’m the Capricorn going. I’m gonna be everyone’s mom.

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Kathy Gruver: Everyone’s mom right now. So there is that place just like anything there is that place of balance and you want to unlock your potential. You don’t want to unlock your inner stripper so

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Jason Mefford: Yes.

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Jason Mefford: Very true, very true.

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Kathy Gruver: Anyway, keep it professional and like you said, with the whole Princess Margaret thing and the the Lyndon B. Johnson that that synergy worked. Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: That’s probably the exception, not the rule. And I had a business friend who when he would entertain all these other sales people.

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Kathy Gruver: He knew he was not a drinker, and they always kind of got on his case, he wasn’t a drinker. So he would show up to the bar.

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Kathy Gruver: ahead of everybody else. And he would get a Diet Coke with some ice with a thing. So it looked like a cocktail.

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Kathy Gruver: And he would say to the waitress. Every time I say to you bring me another of the same

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Kathy Gruver: Spare me and others that bill think I’m drinking and so he had this whole thing set up ahead of time so it looked like he was keeping pace with them drink for drink and in reality he was having soda.

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Kathy Gruver: Do whatever you need to do to get the job done and to take care of yourself and don’t make a fool of yourself. So put those protections in place in those protections in place if you need them. Because the last thing you want is you don’t want to be that guy.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and it’s just like you know we did the other episode on taking smoke breaks you know it’s not it’s not like we’re advocating, you know, everybody goes out and get SHIT FACED, you know, during business meetings. But the idea is, again, when we’re in a more

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Jason Mefford: relaxed environment, you know, again, we’re just using the bar, kind of as a metaphor. And again, some of the

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Jason Mefford: Places where you and I have actually experienced some of this you know firsthand is is it’s more about again trying to make that connection relaxing your brain, you know, being a little bit more authentically you

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Jason Mefford: To be able to, again, like I said, either process the information develop the deeper relationships with people you know because there’s, there’s a lot of good that comes out of that pause time

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Jason Mefford: That, that, you know, you don’t learn everything in the classroom.

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Kathy Gruver: And you can’t at some point, you’re right, your brain is full and you’re just kind of going on.

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Kathy Gruver: And I remember the first couple hypnotherapy conferences. I went to Vegas.

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Kathy Gruver: It was like I was back in junior high. I mean, I would. I sat there with the schedule and I marked out the classes. I wanted to go to and if there was a block of time where one of the classes didn’t totally is it I’m like

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Kathy Gruver: I should probably go and I would pick one. I would force myself to go. I did not miss one minute of class time and then I began to realize

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Kathy Gruver: Okay, I’m kind of the only one doing this. And it’s funny because now this is my i think

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Kathy Gruver: It’ll be my sixth year and hip no thoughts live, which is one of the biggest hypnotherapy conferences in the world. Vegas every year so much fun.

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Kathy Gruver: And I realized that I’m barely in classes anymore. Not because I know everything.

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Kathy Gruver: Because I totally don’t. And if there was a topic like this. This one I just went to in the UK. There was a hypnosis for grieving.

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Kathy Gruver: And loss.

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Kathy Gruver: Especially with what I went through and I have so many clients who I have helped with grieving and loss. I thought I actually don’t know how to do that. I mean, I have techniques that work sort of across the board.

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Kathy Gruver: Wanted to see what she had to say. So I actually, I left the bar. At that point, like, guys. I really want to go to this class.

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Kathy Gruver: If there’s someone you really want to go do then feel free to step away and say, now this is actually going to help me, but don’t feel obligated to sit through every second of class.

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Kathy Gruver: I felt like those first couple years I missed out on one so much fun.

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Kathy Gruver: And to getting to know other people and making those connections, because I was so rigid in my little Capricorn mind.

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Kathy Gruver: My type A, you have to go to class. That’s what you’re paying for that I kind of missed out on others, other things. So there is that place of balance. I mean,

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Kathy Gruver: To me, I’m not going to spend the entire time in the bar. I do know, I do want to go to some of the classes but find that place of balance for you and maybe it’s 5050 or maybe 7030 maybe there’s other numbers. I can’t do math. I don’t know.

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Jason Mefford: Where you got both of them right you know 5050 7030

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Jason Mefford: Or do

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Jason Mefford: They do equal hundred

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Kathy Gruver: To see my work popping up the guy next to me.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh I arrived at that

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Kathy Gruver: We see your work.

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Kathy Gruver: No, let me see your work. Yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Any final thoughts on that.

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Jason Mefford: Well, I don’t know. I mean, we’ve got we’ve been going for a little bit. We maybe have a couple more minutes. Because what I was wondering. Then, too, is you know you had the opportunity to sit around with five

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Jason Mefford: Of the top hypnotist in the world. Maybe there were some little things that you learn to that might be beneficial for people just kind of throw out a couple of things that you were actually able to learn

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Jason Mefford: Yeah, in the bar, instead of the classroom that might be helpful for others that are listening to

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Kathy Gruver: Yeah, you know, it’s and as a presenter myself, you know, everybody has this idea of what the speaker is of what the presenter is of what the expert is and what was so fabulous is at one point I was sitting there, as I think it was after the last class of the day. So we’re all

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Kathy Gruver: Back in the bar.

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Kathy Gruver: And I was talking to Freddie Jacqueline, who is one of the best he developed this technique called the arrow technique, any of the hypnotist watch it go oh my god and pretty Jacqueline him and he is just he’s he’s amazing

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Kathy Gruver: And I was saying there with Mike Mandel and and pretty Jacqueline and his son Anthony Jacqueline, who’s also a world famous hypnotist and I started talking with Freddie about one of the classes. He taught back in Vegas.

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Kathy Gruver: And how he did. He took everyone’s pain away. He had like 10 people up on stage took their pain away and he did the whole subscale ago was an eight. Now it says zero. It was a 10 now it’s a two. It was a seven. Now it’s in something and the one guy said, I’m at a five and Freddie said

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Kathy Gruver: When you go back to your seat and then a couple minutes when you realize I’m probably gonna cry when you realize that your pain is gone, you’re going to rush up on stage and say, Freddie. I love you and he continues on with this glass and about 10 as I used to this guy go

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Kathy Gruver: And he jumped out of his chair and he interrupts what’s happening. And he rushes to the front grabs Friday and says, Freddie. I love you and the entire audience just cries and Freddie and I were talking about that.

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Kathy Gruver: And what came out of that for me was this isn’t just a guy who teach your shit.

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Kathy Gruver: This is a guy who shares every bit of his knowledge, who has such compassion and such love for the people that he works with his students his clients his patients.

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Kathy Gruver: And that really moved clearly someone moved me to something because it’s like there. It isn’t just this sterile teaching environment there is that humanity behind it.

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Kathy Gruver: And I think sometimes we forget that. Because people when I’m speaking, they don’t want to approach me and it’s like I’m just like you.

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Kathy Gruver: So if nothing else, you realize there’s a humanity and there was a caring and there was an openness behind all of that.

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Kathy Gruver: And I think that’s one of the things I walked away with was literally we’re all sitting at this table crying about the things that happened three months ago that we all experienced again, you know, so it was that

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Kathy Gruver: That coming together in that personal way we’re all human, you know, so even if we’re the keynote. We’re still a human.

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Kathy Gruver: And unless you’re a deck, you’re going to be friendly to the people that come up and talk to you. Now I’ve approached. Some speakers who were just like,

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Kathy Gruver: You know, and they think they’re in this separate little thing because there are speakers like you’re fucking not your another human being and you just happen to have a bigger check than everybody else on the stage right now.

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Kathy Gruver: Or not, you know, um, so I think that’s one of the things I got out of it. The other thing was I got to clarify stuff because it’s like I’ve studied with these people and watch their videos I’ve been in their classrooms.

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Kathy Gruver: And now I could turn to Mike mendell or you know these people and go hey, you did this thing. What can I clarify what can you tell me, so I had that almost sort of one on one opportunity which is is sort of rare.

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Kathy Gruver: To say you taught me this thing or hey, you know, I was working with that with myself, how does that

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Kathy Gruver: Work or what would you suggest or hey, I have this client to now you don’t want to take advantage of that. You don’t want to offer you know you don’t want to completely monopolize their time and

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Kathy Gruver: spend two hours discussing your clients with them. Again, that’s that place of balance. But in that environment. It was OK. And it was welcome.

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Kathy Gruver: Always ask hey you know I’m hat. Can I ask you a question about this technique that you taught because there are some times like you were I’m done speaking and I’m

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Kathy Gruver: I seriously just want to sit there and drink.

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Kathy Gruver: Or rest or, you know, I don’t want to continue the business. So I always check in. Hey, Fred. Is it okay if I asked you about this thing that you taught and normally they go, Yes.

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Kathy Gruver: Hopefully they have strong enough boundaries that they go, you know what, I’d love to answer that question. I’m totally wiped right now I just need a couple minutes to yeah yeah

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Jason Mefford: Well, I think it’s interesting because, you know, as you share that that story about Freddie, you know, I mean, our whole, the whole purpose behind this is to help people.

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Jason Mefford: unlock their potential. Right. And it’s, it’s, you know, I think that’s one of the lessons, too, is he’s probably so good because he cares so much

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Jason Mefford: Absolutely right. And that that’s that’s a lesson for all of us that you know a lot of people are talking about being authentic and and I think some people kind of, you know, misinterpret or misunderstand what that really means.

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Jason Mefford: But when you have somebody like that who really does have that alignment.

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Jason Mefford: And know that they’re doing it because they care about people, you know, I’m just trying to get in his head. You know, but I can, I can imagine that when he finished that session when he told that man when you feel that run back up and say, Freddie. I love you. That wasn’t an ego thing.

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Kathy Gruver: How

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Jason Mefford: There wasn’t an ego thing. It was a, I can only imagine that probably on stage. He was like, shit.

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Jason Mefford: This guy supposed to be at a zero. Why is he not a zero. Did I fail him, you know, kind of a thing. And so that’s why he gives him that command of you are going to recognize you are going to, you are going to get there. And when you do, I want you to recognize it.

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Jason Mefford: Yep, and be grateful for it. And that’s, you know, really kind of the reason for it and like you said, I think it’s a great

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Jason Mefford: Example that the greatest people

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Jason Mefford: Care, the most

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Kathy Gruver: And they’re willing to share. And that’s what one of the things I told Freddie’s we’re sitting there talking is, you know, he created all these amazing techniques and he’s not

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Kathy Gruver: I have a problem with role thing. If any of you all watching what role thing is it’s it’s like massage, but it’s very deep you do it in 10 sessions and Delilah I roll when she invented invented that

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Kathy Gruver: She patented it she trademarked it if you say the word roll thing and you’re not a certified role for you will frickin get arrested and like

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Kathy Gruver: She was so and her group. I don’t know how much she had to do with that. But they were so protective of that. And so selfish of that and you can’t call yourself a real

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Kathy Gruver: I hate shit like that. It’s like, I totally understand. You want to hang on to your stuff that you came up with and

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Kathy Gruver: Same thing with resource therapy. I’m studying that right now, which is one of the things that Mike Mandel mentioned

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Kathy Gruver: Everything that Mike teaches everything that Freddie teaches everything that Emerson is teaching out of Australia with resource therapy. They’re like,

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Kathy Gruver: Take it, use it. I didn’t hadn’t it I didn’t train go do this help people with it.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, and that’s one of the things that I actually told Freddie was I said I love that you are so willing to share

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Kathy Gruver: That you give us everything you have and you encourage us to use it you encourage us to steal from you, you know, because that we were all helping more people. And that’s what it’s all about.

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Jason Mefford: It’s all about helping people.

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Jason Mefford: And again, one of the ways you can do it is hanging out in the bar, instead of the classroom.

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Kathy Gruver: dragging your feet can’t drink it.

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Jason Mefford: I know

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Kathy Gruver: We’re gonna be so unproductive tonight.

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Jason Mefford: We’re not

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Salty sweet. Okay.

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Kathy Gruver: Well, I guess that’s it that’s probably right. So,

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Jason Mefford: Summary right

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Kathy Gruver: Right.

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Go drink.

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Jason Mefford: Or at least hang out where other people are hanging out right where you can. And again, and a lot of times in some of the business settings or conventions that happens to be the bar.

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Jason Mefford: doesn’t necessarily have to be the bar. But the whole idea is, again, right, that we we don’t get so caught up.

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Jason Mefford: In the mechanics of trying to learn in the classroom. Remember that learning happens through experience by actually doing. But even more learning actually happens when you pause and reflect

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Kathy Gruver: And in those relationships and in that hallway and then that lounge. And in that I have met connections with people in the bathroom where they’re like oh my God hears that and we end up. No, you know nothing. You should pick people up in the bathroom.

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Jason Mefford: will hopefully everybody can get

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Kathy Gruver: Grant taught us that

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Jason Mefford: Little behind it.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, I

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Jason Mefford: Want to go there right now, but anyway.

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Kathy Gruver: Okay, we don’t

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Kathy Gruver: Go anywhere. Perfect. But anyway, the point is, don’t you know let your inner Capricorn go and don’t be so strict about not socializing. Because sometimes it’s the socializing where that stuff happens. So, yeah, yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Alright, well go forth. Have a great rest of the week start applying some of these things take time to pause and actually learn so that you can really unlock your potential

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Jason Mefford: Live up to you know who it is that you are and really be able to care and make a change in this world. And we’ll see you on a future episode of the fire and earth podcasts.

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Kathy Gruver: I’m Kathy Gruber and I can be reached at Kathy Griffin calm.

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Jason Mefford: And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason effort calm. See, yeah.

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Yeah.